If demonstrative Se is part of what it is to be an 8, then why couldn't ESFjs be 8s (9 wing of course). Many ESFj's (especially males) misidentify themselves as ESTjs, especially because they are so conscious of gender stereotypes, are rather "macho" and see ESFj's as the archetypical women.
An example of how a ESFj could be an 8: I believe the general consensus is that Lindsay Lohan is ESFj. So it was reported that when she was down and out between rehab, Lindsay Lohan read and studied "The Prince" and said it changed her life. I've only known a few ESFj's, and they generally don't seem that pathological, but they certainly can be controlling and intrusive.
Personally I believe the "prototypical" ENTj is 7w8. I write 7w6 in my sig, but my nature usually swings more toward 8 when I'm either not trying to be pleasant or am not being entirely pedantic.
I think this point was addressed already, but if anything, ESTj are probably more "worried about everything", with their Ni-polr. I generally am pretty carefree, looking on the bright side even when things go really badly. In terms of response to physical confrontation, considering ENTjs are all about efficiency and whatnot, it stands to reason that they will generally try to avoid it, as it usually benefits no one. I will sometimes let out Se barbs, or try to push the issue away with Fe. Perhaps that's the "victim-ness" you're talking about. However, in some situations, perhaps it would be beneficial, and considering it is a valued function, it's not that hard to imagine a ENTj so inclined to develop it past the point of some of those who have strong Se. For example I have a suspicion that General Petraeus is an ENTj. Also, I get the feeling that adventure guy who turned out to be somewhat of a fraud, "Bear" something, is ENTj. Both don't necessarily show strong Se, (and in Bear's case was rather publically exposed in that regard), but to get where they were, it is clear that they developed it extensively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Courage
