Hey this has probably been covered somewhere else but how can you distinguish an ENFj from an ESFj?
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Hey this has probably been covered somewhere else but how can you distinguish an ENFj from an ESFj?
easy,
ESFJ are more submissive, service orientated for the group
ENFJ are leader types of the group, proud of themselves
oh and ENFJ's have a more developed language.
I wouldn't call ESFjs "submissive". :lol: They are more concerned with helping and taking care of others than ENFjs are though.
Does he look like a bitch?
ESFjs are generally friendlier, they can be a bit annoying, they usually mean well, they're generally talkative and enthousiastic, some problems with boundaries
ENFjs are more intellectual, they make a lot of gestures while talking, usually very connected socially
Which type would that be? And what exactly do you mean by "bitch" here?Quote:
Originally Posted by UDP
isn't that the phrase from the movie pulp fiction in which an ENFJ says this?
Correct.
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=lNlePuVM3Ic[/youtube]
They are both active, but the ESFj finds it easier to relax; the ENFj will seem more agitated and in a hurry. But you have to observe them for some time to spot this difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
I had an experience on the subway where I got in, noticed a toughish looking, well dressed woman kind of being very assertive and I tried to stare her down, but felt matched and stopped doing it. Eventually the train go very packed and I couldnt' take it anymore so I said "Can I get out?" and she actually took my lead in that, but once off the train someone was standing in the way and I just stood there and sighed and she said "excuse me" very firmly and stepped through.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
So I think an ESFJ is sharper and more socially adept in many ways to an ENFJ, but that an ENFJ can take a leadership role socially, but may lack the assertion or analysis of the ESFJ. An ESFJ can be very congenial, but also very cold and exacting where I think ENFJs just become more regressive and out of control and harsh under stress. I think ESFJs have a better shot in life not to say an ENFJ can't also be successful I just think the ESFJs would fare better, generally, in an ivy league setting than an ENFJ, but that's some subjective ideation there.
Yup the ESFj's I know never stop talking ever, there may be a brief lull before they batter you verbally again. They are nice and well meaning but they can drive (introvert) people nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
I know one ENFj and she is a polymath with an IQ in the stratosphere somewhere. She has like three, maybe it was four, academic degrees (or would if she could be bothered wrapping up two of them doing minor exams, she just studies constantly for her own amusement), she writes her own music and records it, writes books for her own amusement, speaks several languages, she knows lots of people, people tend to find her quite fascinating but she can be very private too. She is a talker too but not in an annoying fashion.
Its kind of funny because there is this girl that me and my friend thought was ENFj and it turns out she was ESFj. She is always talking and is concerned about the welfare of others. She is pretty annoying because she is so friendly. She tries to get everyone to get together and hang out. Overall people like her and she is a friendly person. I realized that I can be flat out bitchy around others which is one quality that I would like to change about myself. I'm pretty friendly but I'm too quiet at the same time. I really would like to see an INTp come and criticize her :P hehe
EIE: more dramatic, seeks power.
ESE: more comforting, seeks expansion.
YeaQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively
Talk about the fact that when methane is found on an extraterestial planet it gives a rough clue that life is possible on that planet.
Or talk about how the big bang started the universe and that a big crunch could be it's end.
The type that runs away first when you say this stuff is the ESE.
yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno
Hmm... now I just need some test subjects... mmmmwahahahaha!
seriously? i want stories. i thought ENTp was pretty likely to talk about this kind of stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
ESE = ESFj (not ENTp) So the point being that ESEs don't like talking about those types of things as much as EIEs (ENFj). I do think ENTps would enjoy that stuff, lolQuote:
Originally Posted by implied
ah, i know that ESE is ESFj, EIE = ENFj, etc. what i was saying -- wouldn't this sort of strain the relationship between an ESE and an ILE? i dunno, my ENTp astronomy professor talked about nothing but this stuff. probably partially because he was an astronomer (and batshit crazy,) but yeah. i suppose eventually if you put him in a room with an ESE the ESE might like his intelligence and eventually look for someone more grounded & rational. how this is more of an INTj trait, i'm not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron
I think that it is more a sensor vs intuitive thing rather than a quadra thing, there just seem to be so much stressing on quadras here sometimes. Intuitives regardless of quadra etc tend to be more interested in certain kinds of topics and sensors in certain others. The MBTI people were right at least on that point I think.
And about ESFjs not being interested in power, I think based on my experience that that is quite wrong. Some ESFjs including my manager at work do actively seek power and positions of power and seem to like being in charge of other people a lot, sometimes in a rather intrusive, clinging and suffocating way though I think they kinda mean well most times.
It seems ESFjs have this idea that other people cannot take care of or direct themselves and so they engage in a ton of unsolicited caring giving and feel unappreciated and abused when one cannot really appreciate it. Personally I think the drive for power, leadership and control of others is often abnormally strong in ESXj types.
To answer the question form my perspective
ESFjs seem friendlier, more casual and far more down to earth and just more warm and comforting or something. ESFjs are more practical in their caring usually(An ESFj is very likely to be seen making the chicken soup for the little old lady next door who is ill).
ENFjs seem less friendly, more formal and up there somewhere, more detached, , more interested in things like writing and psychology. ENFjs are more globally humanitarian and political in their caring, ENFjs will not usually be seen making chicken soup for the little old lady next door, they are more interested in things like having a big campaign to raise money to end world hunger or something wider like that.
On their movements, ENFjs are not like ENTjs, ENFjs move in a deliberate and unhurried way most times and do look slow and very relaxed like that description over at socionics.com says. If you seem them moving quickly they are either very stressed or attending to some great :Te: concern. However, they can look "unnatural" or even somewhat dead (think David Bowie or Nicole Kidman) or just lacking in alertness. ESFjs look very, very alert most times, they also seem really energetic and alive and just more natural in movement.
that seems right.
To implied:
ESFjs do appreciate ENTp Ne and Ti but imho they want the ENTp to apply them to problems which the ESFj actually cares about. So if the ESFj is not interested in astronomy he/she will not be interested in an ENTp who only talks about astronomy. Instead the ESFj will likely try to direct the ENTp attention away from astronomy and to the issues the ESFj considers as important. I have seen this happening with ESFj-INTj pair at work. The INTj always goes off tangents and starts to analyze who knows what weird and imaginary stuff but the ESFj rolls eyes or laughs and immediately redirects the INTj back to thinking about the problems which the ESFj wants solved.
ESE's need more stimulation and are interested mostly by very concrete content, just like SEE's.
EIE's need very little stimulation and seem interested by everything, like IEE's do.
EIE women are more stereotypical of the notion of "weaker sex".
ESE's are more leading, initiating than EIE's. EIE's are more zealous, but lack initiative (!).
EIE's are more likely to get depressed than ESE's.
Yep, I've seen this in an INTP-ESFP duality too.Quote:
Originally Posted by XoX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno
that's a really neat description of duality.
what do you mean, expansion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively
this is interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan
my experiences generally follow what others have posted. I think i most notice that ENFjs come off as more dramatic to me and more interested in intellectualism, power maybe in the form of name dropping. But the name dropping might just be an attention to detail.. i do think that they might have a tendency to dramaticize their efforts (writing a book that will change the world) and an ESFj might dramaticize their emotions or interpersonal slights.. maybe complaining about some rude behavior?
It's interesting yes, that they do seem quite similar in attraction to powerful managerial roles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
Yes, exactly. Thanks for not using buzz words, too, d00d :)
I think they way I would put it is that ESFjs are overly attached and ENFjs are overly detached (in the general sense of things).
The 2 ESFjs in my personal life can be really socially aggressive, demanding. It bothers me, so I ignore them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan
My take on ESFJs vs. ENFJs...(note: I'm ENFP so that colors my understanding of these types)
I've noticed that ESFJs tend to be more forcefull in taking care of other's in a physical way (cooking, cleaning, organizing your fridge, etc.) They try to make jokes, often physical humor that reminds me of Robin Williams, which can make some seem a bit dorky, but they will sacrifice themselves for the "humor." They seem compelled to make others "comfortable" and come across to me as supportive of people's emotional and physical states, whether or not their "help" is actually an annoyance. It's like they can't rest until you are comfortable, fed, and laughing.
ENFJs will be more foreceful in getting you to agree with whatever big picture thing they are trying to convince you of (getting you to recycle, support some sort of humanitarian effort, sign up for a committee, etc.) You don't have a choice -- you will be forced to agree. If you disagree they will really take delight in verbally attacking you until you are "convinced" and then they will remember your disobediance forever, and bring it up for years to come. They will apply pressure as if you "should" do it, or are obligated to. They also use the imperative form more -- take the trash out, you need to pay the bill, you should call them. But it's said under a veil of social niceties, "Oh I really care about X, and I'm soooo sorry to have to ask you to do this, but we have to get X done now -- so please do impossible task #23 right now (it's implied you will be killed otherwise). Actually, the female ENFJs I've known have been more like this, and the males less likely to care if you disagree.
LOLOLOLOLQuote:
Originally Posted by jewels
I actually agree with this. ENFjs are far more concerned with being leaders (and probably the most of any type).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno
Have you had some bad experiences with EIEs? Reading your description makes me want to abandon all socionic hope for happiness. Since EIE is my dual.Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
But this sounds like everything I want to do with my life, with limited success so far. Is that duality?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittmont
(Sorry for the double post.)
Don't abandon your socionics hope! lol. The things that bothered me about those particular ENFJs, I don't think would bother an ISTJ at all. An ISTJ would have described the situation completely differently I think, and would have thought I was strange to take offense to a nice person trying to promote recycling for the good of the planet, you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by bibliophile8
You're right that it may have been the particular ENFJs I knew. I have met others who were nice. And Oprah. She is very likeable and I can't imagine anyone not being able to get along well with her.
I guess I can see that. But it all depends on the cause, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
Oprah makes my skin crawl. Some talk show hosts do that to me. It's a lot worse for news anchors and reporters. They seem so fake while prying into other people's lives with no actual care for them. If you're going to tell me about the wildfires in California or a some kids in a mineshaft, you should care about it, dammit. My favorite time is when they have a victim's close relative on the air and they keep asking them "How did that feel?" and "That must have been hard." and the interviewee is crying and the reporter plows ahead with more questions. And they wrap it up with their solemn face. "Truly a horrible tragedy. Back to you, Chet."Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
That may have been a tangent.
One could argue that this is part of their job. While it may make sense that a reporter would break down while interviewing a person who's entire family was killed by a drunk driver or some other tragedy... part of being professional is not letting this like this get to you and be able to cover the story, they want people to be thinking about the person's pain at that time, not how much the anchor them self cried about it. I've seen Oprah in the past and I'd say that she shows the most emotion out of any of the talk show hosts, well, other than Ellen Degeneres when that whole dog episode happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by bibliophile8
Although, I do agree that sometimes the reporters are just plain heartless in their pursuit of the story when they just keep, as you said, plowing through questions while the person they are interviewing is distraught. Sometimes those situations call for a little more tact than some of them have.
That is a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by cracka
That is very interesting. I didn't know that. There's a thread somewhere around here where they were trying to type Oprah. I think its the Famous ENFJs one.Quote:
Originally Posted by cracka
I guess the part that really bothers me is that they they're trying to appear sorry even though they aren't. But I see your point. It would be distracting if they were overly expressive. And if they just didn't say anything, they would appear entirely heartless. I guess it's just an awkward situation to be in and manage emotionally. Maybe I just don't like the news.
Could it be Ne polr that I don't like this contradiction? I think I might just want them to either be sorry or not sorry. One or the other.
I very often feel the same way biblio! But I don't see a contradiction, I know exactly how I want them to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by bibliophile8
I want them to behave appropriately (talk seriously about a serious topic, show a minimum of empathy), without faking emotions and presenting things in an unnatural way to maximize the viewers' emotional reactions.
ESFjs will run around doing a bunch of shit for people, ENFjs won't- but they give better motivating speeches, and they are honestly better at inspiring people. But when it comes to the nitty gritty, ESFj is inherently better.
ENFjs like to fight social norms and act more flamboyant...ESFjs are more modest and down to earth
ESFj is more practical with money and things like that... ENFj is more extravagant.
Both types however, like their butts kissed. Both types are good at guilt trips. Both types can have a good fashion sense, so you can't judge superficially on that right away. But ESFj will adhere to gender/social norms a lot more than the ENFj usually.
You really can't say that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
Honestly the very best distinction on first impression is that EIEs will have a "bite", a darker aura.
My mother is an ESFj and I am ENFj and we are quite different (whatever similarities would only be concocted either through superficial means or through minimal contact).
ESFjs are more practical, more realistic, more giving (by helping out tangibly), more in the 'here and now' ect. Very optimistic and usually happy.
ENFjs are more flashy, more idealistic, grandiose (ideas on a global scale), powerful orators, darker emotions, moody, giving (through mentorship and vision), more intense and unique.
Also ENFjs are always looking towards the future and past, the 'here and now' can be quite a chore, always looking towards future possibilities or 'what could have been?'
Yeah, what Angel Alliterator said sums it up nicely, imo.
Also the two types may not necessarily get along that well all the time, I can sometimes get frustrated with my ESFj mother's lack of vision and seeing the "Big Picture." It's as if they just can't see the future possibilities of things and this sometimes makes them vulnerable and makes them very naive of the motivations of others or potential dangers.
They are also very inflexible and afraid to move into new territory, which annoys me because I am always looking for the bigger and better things and cannot remain static for too long.
But what I do like about ESFjs (and SJs in general) is that they are very organized and always keep things tidy, you don't have to be constantly in their case for them to clean up after themselves (they are very self-sufficient).
EIE's like to ignore people. If undecided about ESE or EIE, by virtue of her ignoring you despite polite introductions such as 'How are you?', she is probably EIE. Snooty they can be..
:)
That is quite an ignorant generalization, when people come up to me (no matter who they are and especially if they are strangers) I am always polite (despite how I may be feeling inside).
If somebody is of a 'higher' position then I am, then I am usually very humble and modest, if somebody is of 'lower rank' then I am then I will still be polite but more distant, cold and evasive.
Snooty-ness only comes in specific situations with certain people, but that is usually when the ENFj is on the defense and from a distance. When approached by others, ENFjs are polite (there maybe a bit of insincere friendlyness though).
ENFj are humble and polite in an Noblesse Aristocratic way.
Just winding you up a little with some good ol' Ti hyperbole. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Alliterator
Of course! I know you are! Yet I am still a sucker and take it personally.
I do love the drama though, spices things up.
=/ I don't really like how you would be more distant to someone of "lower rank" ? That doesn't sound very nice ... sure, "Aristocratic" and all... I don't identify with that part of being Beta. I think it's a foolish Renin dichotomy that should be shot.
Distant does not mean rudeness or mean-spirited.
It means you are more detached and cold i.e. more business-like and formal rather then engaging and warm (unless of course the ENFj has a personal liking to the person, then the ENFj takes the role of mentor).
I am rarely if ever rude to anyone (my mood swings are seen by people who are close to me only), I usually come forward at first as being formal and business-like and then (if I like the person) I will be very intense and warm (sometimes even fiery).
You're equating "Aristocratic" with "snobbish", but that's not what Reinin meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
In my experience, the EIE always has a "cause." But it's not the delta kinda cause where it's about enriching people's lives and experiences (:Fi:), but more of a global, save something kind of cause. They use their expressiveness to bring attention to something that's happening now.
Don't misunderstand me: any type can seem motivated by a cause. But EIE's seem to emphasize the ability to "do something now" and the idea that "we can change the community/world" more than anyother type I know. It's as though the cause itself is just an excuse to get people motivated and excited about it.
ESEs, on the other hand, though still with the same goal of expressiveness, rarely seem to be profoundly interested in causes beyond local harmony. Essentially, ESEs, even if very smart, are not likely to get wrapped up in an abstract idea. I find my (:Ti:) useful for distinguishing between the abstract and the concrete, so maybe this distinction doesn't help Gamma and Deltas out too much, but maybe focussing on goals (:Te:) and motivations (:Fi:) will be useful.
Hi,
As I've been figuring out my type, it came up to discuss the differences and/or similarities between ESE and EIE.
Any takers? Whatcha got?
Love,
Kelly Jo
For one thing - EIEs are negativists and ESEs are positivists.
EIE - "ah, everything will fail."
ESE - "hahaha, it's so fun when...."
:)
I'll start with the obvious :Fe: base function.
I also know someone whom I believe to be ESE that I adore. She's bubbly, outgoing, friendly, caring, down to earth, life of the party, the one organizing our mom's get togethers.
But, we're different in that she doesn't look at the long range implications of her actions with her kids and she's "neater" than I as well as more frugal with her money, pays attention to her spending habits.
She is a typical :Fe: who actually TALKS LIKE THIS ALL OF THE TIME!!!! Really! I call her "an outgoing, obnoxious otter." She's fun to hang out with at the park with the kids but not a lot going on "upstairs" to have any kind of meaningful conversation with.
Love,
KJ
Kristiina,Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristiina
Can you elaborate? I'm feeling both and need some clarification...thanks
Love,
KJ
From an LII perspective, both types are yummy. Ti and Fe really compliment each other as Ti is about order and Fe is about harmony. For an LII, Fe types are the easiest to understand. Couples are expected to get along and not fight or be mean to each other, and Fe generally fulfills the Ti expectation.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbmmama
ESE meets the Ti expectation because the ESE does not have any impedements to continual harmony from grandiose plans or care-giving-stopping self doubt. While ESE may have self doubt, it does not stop the actualization of immediate harmony. The ESE has been known to disregard career prospects in favor of family prospects because a good deal of satisfaction comes from creating a positive atmosphere. ESE can be bitchy, but in my experience, it takes a lot of negativity for a long period of time. Indescretions can be easily dismissed by ESE's.
EIE's are a bit more difficult to understand in that Ni feeding into Fe gives Fe a different nuance or different aspects of Fe are emphasised. Real world examples of EIE are sometimes increadibly bitchy to outsiders or anyone that offends their Fe. Other real world examples are increadibly bubbly and smiley and fantastic to be around. EIE's are generally good at knowing how someone feels and they spend lots of time watching peoples faces. They are sometimes good at predicting how someone is going to emotionally react to a certain situation, which is Ni feeding into Fe again.
These are just a few things that might help you see the difference between the two. Essentially, your question is about the difference between Si and Ni. Perhaps looking at that distinction is helpful, and making your own generalizations to share with us would be most helpful.
Positivism and negativism are almost like optimism and pessimisms. Negativists see what's missing somewhere and positivists see what can be improved. Both will suggest good changes though. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dbmmama
FDG recently proposed that negativists find it easier to force themselves to do unpleasant tasks.
Look at descriptions of Si and Ni. If you are one of those types, then one of those is your creative function, and the other is a function that you don't value and that gives you some kind of negative reaction when it is expected of you.
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...rted_intuition
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...verted_sensing
Ok - which of these describes you better?
Or:Quote:
The individual prefers to focus on immediate tasks, taking things as they come, rather than try to evaluate the outcome of present trends. Inclination to tell stories or narrate events on a sequential basis, rather than outlining how one event led to another.
He perceives time in an undifferentiated manner: the past, present, and future are all perceived as being in or near the present. When talking about the future (especially one's longer-term plans), the individual treats it as if it were accessible today and often is not aware of all the developments that must happen first.
He generally has a poor sense of how long things will take and what the best amount of time to spend on things is. Therefore it is difficult for him to stay on schedule without extensive (even total) pre-planning.
Quote:
Individuals who possess introverted sensing as a 4th function tend to be negligent to the effects of http://wikisocion.org/en/images/e/ed...ed_sensing.gif and have the view that http://wikisocion.org/en/images/e/ed...ed_sensing.gif aspects are of less importance than others for achieving their goals. They put a low priority on the physical, short-distance, here-and-now in relation to longer-distance and longer-term considerations. A typical manifestation is a lack of concern for small aesthetic details, since a greater focus is given on the opinion that, in the longer term, taking care of them is a never-ending exercise. This is also manifested in a relative lack of awareness of the immediate surroundings, as in noticing where objects may be if you don't have to deal with them particularly, and of your own physical sensations.
A lack of concern for small aesthetic details is more visible in the LIE; in the case of the EIE, the low focus on http://wikisocion.org/en/images/e/ed...ed_sensing.gif is more noticeable as a dislike for low-level practical details, such as filling up forms, signing documents, or filling tax returns.
Due to individuals who possess introverted sensing as a 4th function believing that Si aspects are of less importance, they tend to be thrown off course by unthought of, new or neglected introverted sensing matters.
Oh yes! I absolutely see what's missing! Cool! I *know* what's missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristiina
Thanks!
Love,
KJ
Yes, I've read those before. I see things in both for me. But this sticks out a lot: "Due to individuals who possess introverted sensing as a 4th function believing that Si aspects are of less importance, they tend to be thrown off course by unthought of, new or neglected introverted sensing matters."Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
It goes like this "Oh yeah! Food! I forgot to feed the kids. Quick, grab something to eat" or "Diapers! Wipes! The baby's poop just exploded in her car seat and I always forget to bring stuff like that." But I'm also a woman on a warpath if anyone disturbs my sleeping baby!
My ESE friend would be "snitty" if someone disturbed her baby and I get mean and nasty. She says things like "Hmmmph! I can't believe he just did that! Oh, she's fine." and I say "WTF do you think you're doing?! Don't you DARE wake my baby up!"
Love,
KJ
Overall, I like harmony but not for harmony's sake. I'd rather "fight it out" with you until we can agree or agree to disagree and then have mutual respect over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
And I know exactly how someone will react emotionally to a certain situation but not valuing harmony for harmony's sake, I will still tend to say what I thinks needs to be said and deal with the emotional reaction that I knew was coming afterwards.
Love,
KJ
OK well here's a difference of Ni between two people. My dad is ENFj and my mother-in-law is ESFj.
When my dad travels, he goes through and figures out his route ahead of time, and figures what he will do along his trip, and has a pretty good idea of how long he'll need at each spot, so he's really confident when planning trips. My mom is ENTj, so she has creative Ni too, and they travel together generally as they're married and all, so they have an easy time on trips.
My mother-in-law (whom I adore btw) has this quirky habit of writing out this huge itinerary that goes into incredible detail including how much time we're likely to need for meals, potty breaks, etc. She really has to plan every moment. She has it down to when an airplane lands, and how far she has to go from one terminal to the other and when the other airplane leaves, and whether she'll need to use the bathroom (hates airplane toilets), and where those are located, and how long she's likely to need in there, and whether she'll need a meal, and what restaurants are going to be there, etc. Now, she is open to changing it (she values Ne after all) but then she still has to figure out just how long everything will take and so she keeps referring to her itinerary and checking to see where we've lost or gained time.
My father-in-law is ISFp (I adore him too), so he's no help on these things. She must be able to tell that I have some knowledge of Ni because she'll email her itinerary to me so I can look it over, but I don't know what to do with that thing. I never never never would make up an itinerary. I make sure I have at least 40 minutes or so between flights and then figure it out on my way. LOL. I just tell her not to worry about it - if we don't have time for a meal between flights, we'll grab something to take on the plane from a take-out place. There are tons of those in airports. (Can you tell we travel with the in-laws a lot? LOL)
Another example is my daughter's teacher (also ESFj), who called me to find out what snack I was sending with my daughter to school, because she wanted to make sure she'd have enough time for what she wanted to do that day and needed to plan ahead of time how much time the snack would take. To me, that seems a bit silly, I mean the snack will take, what, 10 or 12 minutes depending on what it is. It isn't hard to adjust time a bit here and there to make up for a couple of extra minutes. But for someone with Ni PoLR, the uncertainty about how much time is needed can apparently be a bit stressful. Since learning how stressed she gets about this, I send things that are individually packaged so she doesn't have to worry about the extra time it would take otherwise.
So I realized after writing that she is looking for Ne from me (Don't worry about it - if there isn't enough time we'll pick up something from someplace to go) rather than seeking Ni. Funny how it's sometimes hard to see what's happening right in front of your face. I thought she wanted me to actually read the itinerary and tell her whether she'd given enough time. But I've never done that and she still sends me an itinerary to look at each time we go someplace with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
Your life is so different from mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
In a socionics way? Or just because I have a mother-in-law and a kid?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
Mostly the mother-in-law and kid thing. Snacks and conference calls with teachers and toilet issues, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
Socionics too.
Very well written. I especially liked the part in bold. Although simple, it has given me something to ponder on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
Yowsa on the whole mapping out a time itinerary, especially in such detail! I do do it like your dad. :) I plan things out and then allow the meaning of the moment to dictate what to do next within my plan. But I also couldn't be a teacher because most moments call for something outside of my plan a lot of times. lol I follow the inspirations of the moment in our learning, but still somehow it's within my overall "plan."Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
Thanks!
Love,
KJ
When I make trip plans, they're rather general. But when I plan for a specific short-time event (experiments), I plan them with minute accuracy. It's just that I know planning it in detail will make such things run more smoothly.
Interesting....I don't plan short-time events...I do allow them to flow. Maybe I'm more go with the flow than I thought...but I'm controlling at the same time...hmmmm. I'm controlling over what I *know* is *best* to happen in each moment. That can't be planned. hmmmm some more....Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristiina
Love,
Kelly Jo
It depends if you have more difficulty picking up NF or SF overall in your distinguishment process.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_maguoo
this is assuming a persons ego is in check and they are acting like themselves...
If you prefer the NF feel then:
ENFj= FeNi ego logicIf you prefer the SF feel then:
ESFj= FeNe activation tendancies
ESFJ= FeSi ego logicYou can also look for superego tendancies but then it starts to get complicated.
ENFj= FeSe activation tendancies
very insightful postQuote:
Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy
There is a lot of good answers in this thread. I want to add what I've seen.
ESEs seem way more grounded and "in the world". They are more aware of their body and more attentive to their environment. I am jealous of them.
EIEs are the opposite, they seem removed from the environment. They have fidgety and anxious body language most often.
You will hear EIEs talk about Ni things; the future, where society is going, "humanity", etc.
You will hear ESEs talk about Si things; (excuse me while I describe my PoLR) sensory impressions, tastes, health. Many female ESEs I've met are really into skincare and healthy eating.
ESE vs EIE
health vs image
reality vs possibility
direct vs indirect
argue vs influence
facts vs context
preserve vs change
win vs conquest
near-sighted vs far-sighted
practical vs esoteric
doer vs performer
support vs lead
positive vs moody
reactive vs pre-emptive
stylish vs symbolic
a.k.a. I/O