Analysis of Erotic Attitudes
There has been lots of talk about erotic attitudes and their roles in intertype relations, so I figured I'd do some speculating about their origins in Model A.
We all know that the need of one type for another is driven by the inadequacey of each type to comfortably meet all of the expectations placed on him/her. That's pretty basic: Ne needs Si, Se needs Ni. What most people don't look at is how the insecure functions of each pair play into erotic compatibility.
Perhaps the other, darker origin of intertype relations is based insecurity that originates in the insecure mental track irrational function and is expressed in the roles played out by partners in erotic attitudes.
Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported
Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed
Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated
Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired
Re: Analysis of Erotic Attitudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
Perhaps the other, darker origin of intertype relations is based insecurity that originates in the insecure mental track irrational function and is expressed in the roles played out by partners in erotic attitudes.
Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported
Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed
Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated
Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired
I think you're right and confirms the little glimpses I've gotten of where the erotic attitudes comes from.
ETA: Boy did I misread, lol. nm. :p Anyways good work.
Re: Analysis of Erotic Attitudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
Perhaps the other, darker origin of intertype relations is based insecurity that originates in the insecure mental track irrational function and is expressed in the roles played out by partners in erotic attitudes.
Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported
Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed
Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated
Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired
I think you're right and confirms the little glimpses I've gotten of where the erotic attitudes comes from.
ETA: Boy did I misread, lol. nm. :p Anyways good work.
excellent work! can we wiki this?
Re: Analysis of Erotic Attitudes
Are these correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
INTj, ENTp, INFj, ENFp
Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported
ESFj, ISFp, ESTj, ISTp
Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed
ISTj, ESTp, ISFj, ESFp
Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated
INFp, ENFj, INTp, ENTj
Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired
Re: Analysis of Erotic Attitudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
There has been lots of talk about erotic attitudes and their roles in intertype relations, so I figured I'd do some speculating about their origins in Model A.
We all know that the need of one type for another is driven by the inadequacey of each type to comfortably meet all of the expectations placed on him/her. That's pretty basic: Ne needs Si, Se needs Ni. What most people don't look at is how the insecure functions of each pair play into erotic compatibility.
Perhaps the other, darker origin of intertype relations is based insecurity that originates in the insecure mental track irrational function and is expressed in the roles played out by partners in erotic attitudes.
Paranoid Se: "Sometimes it feels like the world is working against me; I never have everything I need to accomplish my goals. I just want one person who will always help me, even when it feels like everyone else is working against me."
Basic desire: To be supported
Paranoid Ni: "I feel like I don't have any purpose in the world; I wander through life without really being sure of what I'm going to do with myself. I just want one person to need me so I know that, if all else fails, I have something to live for."
Basic desire: To be needed
Paranoid Ne: "I'm never sure of what I'm really capable of. I'm always ready for a challenge, but I'm never really sure whether or not I have what it takes. I need a person who can test me, and help me feel reassured about my abilities."
Basic desire: To be evaluated
Paranoid Si: "I often feel like nobody values or needs me. I want someone who is willing to strive to attain me, so that I know that I'm worth fighting for."
Basic desire: To be desired
paranoid Ni :
1st half is something i regularly and half jokingly admit to in order to make fun of myself. second half, seldom admit to, but feel. whenever suicide comes to mind, it always seems that the scenarios i play out involve some stupid person getting in the way of the act.
paranoid Ne:
i would say i generally know what i'm capable of, so that's not really the problem. I relate to needing a person who can test me, though. otherwise we are useless to each other.
paranoid Si:
i relate to this the least. although it may seem at times that nobody values me, i can't say it's a real concern of mine. it's a given that nobody will value me because they do not really know me, and how can you value that which you do not know? i do not want someone to strive to attain me. this notion sounds miserable. either take me all at once, or let me take you all at once, but don't "fight for me." Eek. drawn out seductions are embarrassingly passionate and predictable.
Paranoid Se:
my ESFp ex was very much this way. it was very obvious that he needed me to support him. suddenly he'd want to become a computer tech and of course i think he can't handle it....yet i say "go for it, sounds like you'd be good at it" and he does the training and the job just fine. i suppose i didn't quite know what to do with his needs, but i can give very good advice to people when i don't relate to them. i also thought it was weird how much he valued his family, by virtue of their being family and nothing more.
anyway, there is a part of the Se one that rings true for me, but i tend to think of myself as working against the world, and not as much the other way around. i also know that i don't have everything i need for my goals, but i don't blame the world for that. i blame myself and can't imagine having someone else implement my imagination. if i don't have a goal, who fucking cares. i have vague and wonderful goals. this way i cannot fail too many times because midway i can just change the conditions of the goals.
so i would say Ni>Ne>Se>Si if you want that kind of order....but actually one does not automatically and linearly follow the other. so disregard this last paragraph.
Re: Analysis of Erotic Attitudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
paranoid Si:
i relate to this the least. although it may seem at times that nobody values me, i can't say it's a real concern of mine. it's a given that nobody will value me because they do not really know me, and how can you value that which you do not know? i do not want someone to strive to attain me. this notion sounds miserable. either take me all at once, or let me take you all at once, but don't "fight for me." Eek. drawn out seductions are embarrassingly passionate and predictable.
I'd like to point out here that just because one feels a certain way about something, doesn't mean that it plays out exactly in a straightforward path, as in A->B->C.
I DO in fact relate to paranoid Si, but it's a very core issue, and most of the scenarios I've created did NOT involve following the script of someone actually "fighting for me" or "striving to attain me". Most of the time, I seem to choose someone unavailable in some manner -- and then secretly wish for them to pursue me. (They usually don't). Indirectly in this way, I often set myself up to be disappointed. But then, it seems to me that the ones who have vied to gain my attention directly haven't been challenging enough.
In the end, it seems I may see my value as determined by the difficulty (initial indifference) of untimately winning the affection/attention of the prize.
Re: Analysis of Erotic Attitudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by aka-kitsune
Quote:
Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
paranoid Si:
i relate to this the least. although it may seem at times that nobody values me, i can't say it's a real concern of mine. it's a given that nobody will value me because they do not really know me, and how can you value that which you do not know? i do not want someone to strive to attain me. this notion sounds miserable. either take me all at once, or let me take you all at once, but don't "fight for me." Eek. drawn out seductions are embarrassingly passionate and predictable.
I'd like to point out here that just because one feels a certain way about something, doesn't mean that it plays out exactly in a straightforward path, as in A->B->C.
I DO in fact relate to paranoid Si, but it's a very core issue, and most of the scenarios I've created did NOT involve following the script of someone actually "fighting for me" or "striving to attain me". Most of the time, I seem to choose someone unavailable in some manner -- and then secretly wish for them to pursue me. (They usually don't). Indirectly in this way, I often set myself up to be disappointed. But then, it seems to me that the ones who have vied to gain my attention directly haven't been challenging enough.
In the end, it seems I may see my value as determined by the difficulty (initial indifference) of untimately winning the affection/attention of the prize.
Yes, I relate to this. I know exactly what you're saying. In the end, you may grow so tired of the resulting disappointment of the unattainable that you give in to the ones who give you attention more directly. Which could be a relief in some ways as long as you're not settling for the easy catch (which I'm not implying you would do!).
Re: Analysis of Erotic Attitudes
Quote:
Originally Posted by implied
excellent work! can we wiki this?
I intend to include it there. This is one of the most insightful contributions I've seen in quite some time.
*bows to Gilly*