Questions about enneagram types and wings

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by Ezra

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Originally Posted by Thunder

Anyone want to help me with my Enneatype?

I'm sure it must be there, somewhere. :?

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Thunder, I'd be happy to help.

The test Joy posted earlier on with her results is a good place to start. There are also summaries of each type on that site, as well as mistypings, and how we often mistype. Take a look at that, and if you're having trouble deciding on your type out of a few (even if it's between 1w2 and 1w9, for example), ask me and I'll differentiate between the types for you.

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Thank you. :)

Tests (including the test Joy posted) seem to mostly place me as a 1, with 8 and 3 (and sometimes 5) behind it.

The problem is that I don't really identify with any of them, though I think I can safely safe that I'm NOT a 2, 4, 7 or 9.

I identify with the 3 because of the need for achievement but the image focus puts me right off.

I identify with the 5 only because of the intellectual focus but I am far from believing the world to be "intrusive", etc..

I identify with the 6 because I'm internally tense and tend to be anxious about relationships, but it is only superficial because when looking deeper into the type it becomes clear that I am not one.

I identify with the motivations of the 8 but my behaviour is not really anything like that.

I identify with the 1's perfectionism and high standards but I always fall short. :(

1 and 8 are the most likely as far as motivations go, but both are problematic.

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You sound like me a year or so ago. 1 was often very high in my scores. It was interchangeable with 3 and 8 (but 8 almost always came out tops). I also went through a phase of scoring highly on 5.

Exactly how are 1 and 8 problematic for you?

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Originally Posted by aka-kitsune

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Originally Posted by Ezra

An ESTj is an archetypal 1 in my eyes.

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I agree with this. I have known an "archetypal" 1(w2); holds a grudge that never fades. We were once friends, but now (5 or 6 years later) she still won't make eye contact with me. Unbelievable.

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Would you agree that 1w9s are more like ESTjs than 1w2s in general? I think because of the 2 influence, a 1w2 would likely have higher moral and ethical standards (although don't take this comment as die hard - 1s are characteristically moral) and so perhaps would be ISFjs (I think it's ISFjs who have the strong gut sense of ethics?).

why is ezra calling himself an extj, making arguements based on his being extj, but then has estp-ti on his sig line?

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by anndelise

why is ezra calling himself an extj, making arguements based on his being extj, but then has estp-ti on his sig line?

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MBTI, I believe.

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Correct. IN MBTI terms, I am an ENTJ. In socionics terms, currently ESTp-Ti fits me best.

By the way, Ann, out of curiosity, is your avatar a Mac network icon?

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by Ezra

Exactly how are 1 and 8 problematic for you?

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The 8 -- generally the behaviour is the problem. While I'm probably overly concerned with control/independence and I am innately competitive, I'm not exactly aggressive, an SLE would probably laugh at me if I tried to be. My struggle is somewhat less obtrusive.

The 1 -- mostly that I fall far short of my own standards (and am not as openly critical as descriptions would seem to imply. I have high standards for others but if they fall short then I will simply distance myself from them). I am also a bit too lazy, or at least reading about Ones make me feel lazy. :?

Does that help?

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That's difficult. You could be an 8w9, but even they can express their aggression quite easily. However, while your unobtrusiveness clearly rules out 8w7, w9 is still a possibility. Try to dig up some examples of when you've felt your aggression (if you have) and how you've reacted in situations where aggression is, in your opinion, required.

As for being a 1, I would have said that a 1 could still fall short of their own standards (since by definition a 1 sets unreasonably high standards for themselves and others). But the laze puts me off. In theory though, you might not be lazy - you could just be thinking you are. Ask your friends what they think. On the other hand, when I read about ESTj, I feel lazy to some extent.

Comparisons worth mentioning about the 1 and the 8 are those that I did a page or so back, and UDP came to the decision that he was a 1. Check back a few pages to see some comparisons between them. That should help you further. As UDP mentioned (one I've missed out), 8s are very in touch with their bodies and gut reactions. They have large appetites and are very lusty people, and in the lower levels of health, can indulge in unhealthy amounts of food, alcohol, drugs and sex. 1s are very in touch with their conscience and their moral standards. So, even if a 1 was lazy, there would be a little voice going 'get a move on you lazy bastard! Look at you! You're pathetic. No exercise, you look and eat like a pig, and you're wasting your life as a selfish person'. This is what gets them into gear; the huge desire to be good.

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Originally Posted by Ezra

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by anndelise

why is ezra calling himself an extj, making arguements based on his being extj, but then has estp-ti on his sig line?

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MBTI, I believe.

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Correct. IN MBTI terms, I am an ENTJ. In socionics terms, currently ESTp-Ti fits me best.

By the way, Ann, out of curiosity, is your avatar a Mac network icon?

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as to the first: ok, that explains it
as to the second: lol, i had to look that up to see. I just know that I had found it with a bunch of freebie new-agey pictures. I had initially tried getting a moving taichi symbol going as my avatar, but even with the size reductions and all, it wouldn't fit the avatar requirements of this site. I saw this symbol, and to me it seemed like the perfect Ne symbol. Being outside of the contained system looking in, almost as if it's a static thing (recognizing that it isn't, but treating it as if it is), and the connections between the little points of light could be either Ti connections or Fi connections.

lol, now i wonder how many people have viewed it as me identifying with some mac network thingy :lol:

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Originally Posted by anndelise

as to the second: lol, i had to look that up to see. I just know that I had found it with a bunch of freebie new-agey pictures. I had initially tried getting a moving taichi symbol going as my avatar, but even with the size reductions and all, it wouldn't fit the avatar requirements of this site. I saw this symbol, and to me it seemed like the perfect Ne symbol. Being outside of the contained system looking in, almost as if it's a static thing (recognizing that it isn't, but treating it as if it is), and the connections between the little points of light could be either Ti connections or Fi connections.

lol, now i wonder how many people have viewed it as me identifying with some mac network thingy :lol:

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I know, the requirements are an absolute joke on here; surely they can up them just a little. I'm still surprised how Expat managed to get a photo of even slightly good quality up there; I have to use stuff I find on the net when I'd rather use a picture of me.

Interesting... perhaps the Mac thinktanks were Ne leading. :)

I think you're 6w5.

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

I think you're 6w5.

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Why?

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Counterphobic sixes can easily resemble 8s
they can also mistype as 1s due to their need to keep their environments in order.
your suspicion that you're sx dominant increases the likelihood of these mistypes.

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Originally Posted by Thunder

I also have OCD, fwiw. Not that I believe in correlating type to disorders. :?

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By all means, Thunder, don't hesitate from doing so. Most disorders are type related, believe it or not. In fact, in most Enneagram books, each type has a possible and very plausible disorder. Just don't use it as a means to justify your type; simply be aware that your type will be more prone to a certain disorder than another, and so care should be taken in ensuring you don't become the disorder associated with your type; the point of the Enneagram is to become healthy, but too many people are unhealthy versions of their type.

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

I think you're 6w5.

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I disagree. He hasn't expressed any sentiments that remotely resemble a 6.

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

Counterphobic sixes can easily resemble 8s
they can also mistype as 1s due to their need to keep their environments in order.
your suspicion that you're sx dominant increases the likelihood of these mistypes.

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:shock: My environment is chaotic. My perfectionism is an internal thing.

(I don't really resemble an 8 anyway, as I said, I just identify with the motivations).

I don't see what other instinctual variant I would be.

Interesting though. Anything else that's perhaps more specific to the type (as opposed to a reason for a mistype)?

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Type Six

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Originally Posted by Thunder

Interesting though. Anything else that's perhaps more specific to the type (as opposed to a reason for a mistype)?

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Though I don't believe at this point that you're a 6, what reyn_til_runa says about sx 6s is very true. A cp6w5 sx-first very much resembles an 8. Cp6s face the fear. The difference, however, lies in the underlying insecurity of the 6; an 8 is supremely confident in comparison with the 6. Also, the 6's aggression and anger is very much unpredictable and often irrational (they can strike out at imaginary enemies i.e. projection and extreme paranoia: 'it's you isn't it!' even when it isn't), unlike the 8's anger, which manifests itself even in average levels of health, designed to mobilise their enemy. The 8's anger is much more strategic and methodical.

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by Ezra

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

I think you're 6w5.

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I disagree. He hasn't expressed any sentiments that remotely resemble a 6.

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I'm a she. :)

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Apologies. I normally guess.

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

Counterphobic sixes can easily resemble 8s
they can also mistype as 1s due to their need to keep their environments in order.
your suspicion that you're sx dominant increases the likelihood of these mistypes.

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:shock: My environment is chaotic. My perfectionism is an internal thing.

(I don't really resemble an 8 anyway, as I said, I just identify with the motivations).

I don't see what other instinctual variant I would be.

Interesting though. Anything else that's perhaps more specific to the type (as opposed to a reason for a mistype)?

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Type Six

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I'm familiar with Type Six, I only identify with it superficially. Do you have any arguments or are you just speculating?

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yeah i know, but have you read this one?

Thunder, I think you're a 1. I'd forget 8 for now.

By the way, how do you identify with the 6?

"Many Sixes are naturally prone to doubt and self-questioning. In some Sixes, this internal dynamic is projected outwards, and Sixes are notorious for adopting the position of the "devil's advocate." Many Sixes are, thus, prone to questioning and challenging the motives and beliefs of those around them. Sometimes this strategy succeeds in forcing the Six's interlocutor to clarify his or her position or to seek common ground with the Six. Other times however, it only serves to turn the Six's interlocutor into an opponent who feels justified in responding aggressively to what they understandably perceive as an attack. Thus a pattern which is essentially defensive from the point of view of the Six, is often perceived as an assault by those on the receiving end. Sixes who adopt this approach are frequently perplexed by the amount of animosity they arouse. They are far harder on themselves, they reason, so they fail to understand why others are "over reacting." In general, Sixes tend to be very aware of the reactivity of others and considerably less so of their own. As they are being driven by their own inner uncertainty, they tend to be unaware that they are behaving in an aggressive fashion and alienating those whom they might well like to befriend.

The doubting nature of type Six can be turned to good stead when the Six uses it to discover what is wrong or missing. Sixes rightly suspect that there is more going on in any given situation that what is presented on the surface, and they want to know what lies beneath. Sixes frequently have the capacity to detect what is hidden. They ferret out the potential danger in a situation; they intuitively seek the weakness in an argument or the flaws covered by the pleasing exterior. They often have an almost "sixth" sense in this regard. This means that Sixes are typically good trouble shooters, gifted debaters, or the stalwart players who form the defensive line. Sixes tend to feel that if they are aware of all the inherent dangers in a situation, they can arm themselves against them. Once again, this vigilance is essentially a defensive maneuver. On the down side, the tendency to look for problems can lead to unnecessary worrying, catastrophising or, in extreme cases, paranoid ideation. If this tendency to focus on what might go wrong is left unchecked, the Six will experience many needless hours of misery. In addition, others in the Six's life might well experience the Six as being unnecessarily negative."

Surprised you don't relate to any of this as a probable ENTj.

Not relating to any of it is different from not relating to it. I relate to a few parts of it (I probably relate to at least a couple lines in every description), but I don't relate to the overall idea of the description as a whole at all.

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by Ezra

Thunder, I think you're a 1. I'd forget 8 for now.

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Have you any impressions about the wing?

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No, unfortunately not. I'm quite averse to the study of 1, 2, 3 and 4 for some reason. 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 interest me quite a bit, and so I find it easier to discern between those types and their wings.

Your best bet is to look at the various descriptions planted all over the net on wings, and decide from there. If you find yourself being unable to decide between the wings, you either have balanced wings (unlikely), you're looking too deeply into it (more likely) or you're not a 1 (possible).

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I tend to be anxious about relationships until I reach a point of certainty (and even then my confidence is easily shaken). I'm also somewhat anxious in general but it is more "edginess" than self-doubt.

That's basically it.

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Right. No, I don't think you're a 6.

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Originally Posted by Ezra

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by Ezra

Thunder, I think you're a 1. I'd forget 8 for now.

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Have you any impressions about the wing?

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No, unfortunately not. I'm quite averse to the study of 1, 2, 3 and 4 for some reason. 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 interest me quite a bit, and so I find it easier to discern between those types and their wings.

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Problem with the heart types, I see. Even 2, though? That should be your integration arrow.

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

"Many Sixes are naturally prone to doubt and self-questioning. In some Sixes, this internal dynamic is projected outwards, and Sixes are notorious for adopting the position of the "devil's advocate." Many Sixes are, thus, prone to questioning and challenging the motives and beliefs of those around them. Sometimes this strategy succeeds in forcing the Six's interlocutor to clarify his or her position or to seek common ground with the Six. Other times however, it only serves to turn the Six's interlocutor into an opponent who feels justified in responding aggressively to what they understandably perceive as an attack. Thus a pattern which is essentially defensive from the point of view of the Six, is often perceived as an assault by those on the receiving end. Sixes who adopt this approach are frequently perplexed by the amount of animosity they arouse. They are far harder on themselves, they reason, so they fail to understand why others are "over reacting." In general, Sixes tend to be very aware of the reactivity of others and considerably less so of their own. As they are being driven by their own inner uncertainty, they tend to be unaware that they are behaving in an aggressive fashion and alienating those whom they might well like to befriend.

The doubting nature of type Six can be turned to good stead when the Six uses it to discover what is wrong or missing. Sixes rightly suspect that there is more going on in any given situation that what is presented on the surface, and they want to know what lies beneath. Sixes frequently have the capacity to detect what is hidden. They ferret out the potential danger in a situation; they intuitively seek the weakness in an argument or the flaws covered by the pleasing exterior. They often have an almost "sixth" sense in this regard. This means that Sixes are typically good trouble shooters, gifted debaters, or the stalwart players who form the defensive line. Sixes tend to feel that if they are aware of all the inherent dangers in a situation, they can arm themselves against them. Once again, this vigilance is essentially a defensive maneuver. On the down side, the tendency to look for problems can lead to unnecessary worrying, catastrophising or, in extreme cases, paranoid ideation. If this tendency to focus on what might go wrong is left unchecked, the Six will experience many needless hours of misery. In addition, others in the Six's life might well experience the Six as being unnecessarily negative."

Surprised you don't relate to any of this as a probable ENTj.

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Really? It screams Interrogative+Negativism.

As I said, I can relate to it superficially. On close inspection it just doesn't hold up.

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But nothing seems to. Perhaps you are focusing on the wrong points. The sequence of your comments in this thread alone gives you away as a 6w5, imo, and I will refrain from commenting further until/unless i have more than a very strong impression.

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Originally Posted by aka-kitsune

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Originally Posted by Ezra

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Originally Posted by Thunder

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Originally Posted by Ezra

Thunder, I think you're a 1. I'd forget 8 for now.

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Have you any impressions about the wing?

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No, unfortunately not. I'm quite averse to the study of 1, 2, 3 and 4 for some reason. 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 interest me quite a bit, and so I find it easier to discern between those types and their wings.

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Problem with the heart types, I see. Even 2, though? That should be your integration arrow.

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Possibly. But 1 isn't a heart type. They just bore me to be honest.

2 is my integration, yes, but that doesn't mean I should take an interest in it.

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Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa

But nothing seems to. Perhaps you are focusing on the wrong points. The sequence of your comments in this thread alone gives you away as a 6w5, imo, and I will refrain from commenting further until/unless i have more than a very strong impression.

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Does it bollocks! How does it? In any way?

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Originally Posted by Ezra

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Originally Posted by aka-kitsune

Problem with the heart types, I see. Even 2, though? That should be your integration arrow.

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Possibly. But 1 isn't a heart type. They just bore me to be honest.

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Yes, I realize 1s aren't heart types -- I was making a general statement that didn't happen to address Ones. I generally find 1s too intense myself. Not boring -- most are wry and intelligent -- just don't really like the feeling of constant judgement. I'm always too careful around them; you never know what might provoke an ethical tirade.

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2 is my integration, yes, but that doesn't mean I should take an interest in it.

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Oh. Well, I suppose I thought you might be interested in how those lines manifest in yourself. And I thought you mentioned somewhere that you're "warm" or "loving" or something. Or did you just attribute that to the 9-wing?

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Possibly. But 1 isn't a heart type. They just bore me to be honest.

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How are you a 9 wing, Ezra?

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Yes, I realize 1s aren't heart types -- I was making a general statement that didn't happen to address Ones. I generally find 1s too intense myself. Not boring -- most are wry and intelligent -- just don't really like the feeling of constant judgement. I'm always too careful around them; you never know what might provoke an ethical tirade.

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Yeah - that sounds like me.

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Originally Posted by aka-kitsune

Oh. Well, I suppose I thought you might be interested in how those lines manifest in yourself. And I thought you mentioned somewhere that you're "warm" or "loving" or something. Or did you just attribute that to the 9-wing?

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Too an extent I am interested, but I am far more into studying 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 - mainly because my best friend is a 5w6 and I have a strong link to 5 (I'm sp-first), my other best friend is a 7w6, I find the 6 psyche interesting to look at, and because I'm an 8 with 7 and 9 as my wings, and I like to know how they influence me.

My warmth and lovingness is extremely rare. You will see it when I am with a girl - they have access to it. I'm not always as rough as the 8w7 - in fact I'm very gentle on occasion. I have love and respect for my friends, and you see this in my kind of manly, rough bear hugs which my 7 friends don't always appreciate.

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Originally Posted by UDP

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Possibly. But 1 isn't a heart type. They just bore me to be honest.

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How are you a 9 wing, Ezra?

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My passion and lust for life is less evident than in most 8s. My typical recreational activities seem almost averse to an 8. I love partying, but not excessively, like 8w7s do.

Actually, come to think of it, I could simply be a somewhat reserved 8w7. After all, I am sp-first, with a recognisable link to 5.

(fwiw, 8w7 makes much more sense for you than 8w9 imo)

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Originally Posted by Ezra

My passion and lust for life is less evident than in most 8s. My typical recreational activities seem almost averse to an 8. I love partying, but not excessively, like 8w7s do.

Actually, come to think of it, I could simply be a somewhat reserved 8w7. After all, I am sp-first, with a recognisable link to 5.

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That would make more sense to me based on my impression of you so far (which, granted is only a first one). And sp-first will certainly flavor any type with some reserve.

Enneagram is really intriguing me as of late.. :shock:

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Originally Posted by Joy

(fwiw, 8w7 makes much more sense for you than 8w9 imo)

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- that is what I was getting at.

Yeah, I don't have a 9 wing. It doesn't really fit me when I'm actively socialising - I'm not particularly invisibly in control like an 8w9; I assert it. I walk into a room, and I dominate. That is my style. Everyone who knows me wouldn't say 'ooh, Ezra, your power is not spoken of when you come in a room - people just know it'. I come in, and it's 'I am doing this. You are doing that. We are going here'. I dictate, expand, and influence, just like an 8w7. I also have a very clear, visible energy. Those around me know it - they know me. Dunno where I got 8w9 from really. I haven't really got much of a reason to back it up. I've NEVER considered 9 as my type (or if so, only superficially) and I have seriously considered 7 as my type in the past. 8w7 seems likely on every level in every sense.

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Originally Posted by ScarlettLux

Enneagram is really intriguing me as of late.. :shock:

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It's a good theory. I don't like the way people fuck it off for being 'mystical' or 'esoteric'. It's a very sound theory. Yes, there are flaws, but what theories don't have flaws?

My favourite thing about it is helping people find out who they are, then helping them help themselves. It gives me a great sense of satisfaction. That's why and when I'm most alive on this forum - I wait until I get a load of people going 'oooh, help me find my type!' then I come in and influence. It's the area about which I know more than most on this forum, and - even better - most people my age.

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Originally Posted by Ezra

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Originally Posted by ScarlettLux

Enneagram is really intriguing me as of late.. :shock:

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It's a good theory. I don't like the way people fuck it off for being 'mystical' or 'esoteric'. It's a very sound theory. Yes, there are flaws, but what theories don't have flaws?

My favourite thing about it is helping people find out who they are, then helping them help themselves. It gives me a great sense of satisfaction. That's why and when I'm most alive on this forum - I wait until I get a load of people going 'oooh, help me find my type!' then I come in and influence. It's the area about which I know more than most on this forum, and - even better - most people my age.

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I know you have seen and replied to my thread on the EIDB board, but I am still confused... I wonder if you could give any more insight. You said you believe I am a 7w6, but come to think of it, I am a bit too pragmatic & driven to be at all similar to my "true" 7w6 friend who is very hyper/childish. I relate very well to 3, 4, 6 and 7... someone has recently suggested 7w8 but I am not sure about that. I don't know if that would really explain my ambitious/focused nature... I don't really relate to the description of 8s as controlling, I have much more anxiety that seems similar to a 6 rather than being super confident like an 8.

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Originally Posted by ScarlettLux

I know you have seen and replied to my thread on the EIDB board, but I am still confused... I wonder if you could give any more insight. You said you believe I am a 7w6, but come to think of it, I am a bit too pragmatic & driven to be at all similar to my "true" 7w6 friend who is very hyper/childish. I relate very well to 3, 4, 6 and 7... someone has recently suggested 7w8 but I am not sure about that. I don't know if that would really explain my ambitious/focused nature... I don't really relate to the description of 8s as controlling, I have much more anxiety that seems similar to a 6 rather than being super confident like an 8.

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Myself, I've noted that 3s and 7s can look superficially similar. (Seems I'm always attracted to one or the other actually). Anxiety would tend to lean you toward 7w6 in my opinion. Threes don't tend to have noticeable anxiety. Sevens can also be focused and ambitious when they need to be. More often, it's a scattered project-dependent kind of focus, though, with shades of the telltale 7 "monkey mind" that jumps around from idea to idea.

Threes can be excited by ideas, but generally are not visibly fractious in the way that Sevens often are. Compare Heart type (3) vs. Head type (7).

3s are motivated to achieve (and impress)
7s are motivated to enjoy (and avoid pain)

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Originally Posted by ScarlettLux

I know you have seen and replied to my thread on the EIDB board, but I am still confused... I wonder if you could give any more insight. You said you believe I am a 7w6, but come to think of it, I am a bit too pragmatic & driven to be at all similar to my "true" 7w6 friend who is very hyper/childish. I relate very well to 3, 4, 6 and 7... someone has recently suggested 7w8 but I am not sure about that. I don't know if that would really explain my ambitious/focused nature... I don't really relate to the description of 8s as controlling, I have much more anxiety that seems similar to a 6 rather than being super confident like an 8.

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Why aren't you sure about 7w8?

And 8s are only controlling if they perceive threats where they might lose control.

SLux seems way too....... NF and emotional to be an 8. Have you ever heard her music?

yeah, everything points to 7

What is it inside me that makes me think I'm a 4 though.. I think I am too emotional to even be a 7!

What about 4w3? You seem concerned with image, etc.