Do you think certain types are prone to autistic tendencies or AS, or if autistic people are more likely to be one or two types over another? Perhaps if they had Fe or Fi as a 4th function?
Printable View
Do you think certain types are prone to autistic tendencies or AS, or if autistic people are more likely to be one or two types over another? Perhaps if they had Fe or Fi as a 4th function?
I think the types who may , on occasion, if not all the time, have behaviour similar to autism or similar disorders would be INTj, INTp and ISTp, though will obviously be prone to display different kinds of behaviour depending on the type. (Those are probably the types I think people might say 'oh, you're autistic!' IRL, whether or not they actually are.
Or on the board, as some have done before. :8*Quote:
Originally Posted by Subterranean
Yeah, who was it who was called autistic by FDG? They have his quote in their signature.
Authentic autism cases are rare; however, there are those in psychiatry who would label behaviors tied to one's IM-IE type combination autistic. Works of great genius, in particular, have been associated with autism by these people. I think it unlikely these people are, or were, truly autistic.
Labcoat has made some interesting generalizations about the behavior of the various IM-IE pairings, and the way they affect our perceptions of the people who have them.
I was meaning autistic savants, yeah. Steven Speilburg can hardly be compared with an austistic savant no matter what his psychiatrist says, and beyond autistics savantism I don't think the term really holds relevance. It is certainly no disorder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
Do you know anything about autism?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
Introversion can be considered slight autism in my opinion.
I agree.Quote:
Autism can be considered slight introversion
No, no no no. Autism is a disorder. If you are saying those types are autistic, you are saying they have a psychological problem. That's the way it is, the INTjs are not going to let you by on anything less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elro
What, do you believe introversion is a disorder? You know it might be fun to pile on you morons for once.
dood mellow out! and stop trying to speak for whole groups of people :8* ( you are one INTj... that is all you're speaking for) If others feel the same way let them speak for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
If you are gonna put it like that, then extraversion is considered a slight bit of hysteria in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemex
whaaaaaaaaaaaaa
:wink:
he may be but this sort of stuff...Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
...is just rediculous. like Tcaud commands some supersecret INTj army or something :8*Quote:
You know it might be fun to pile on you morons for once.
true... (they could question the enemy to death :) )Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder
they would be able to build one hell of an advanced weapon.
You all know INTjs hate half-assed logic.
Yeah I think we could get a general anti-ENFp party going in here if they're gonna keep this crap up. What do you say, INTjs?
(Remember Robespierre always assembles a commitee to punish the offender. 7th function :Te:)
The suggestiions that people who seem to act stereotypically is a sign of autism, or that a strong logical mind is a sign of autism, is one of the great modern travesties of modern psychology. That this stuff can be published -- even discussed in peer reviewed psychology journals -- is a testament to its degraded institutional state.
Although, the recent anti-semitism charges against Jung are a sign of the same.
Elro isn't even an ENFp... I'm sorry Tcaud, I try to stay out of your way but you can get a bit weird when you freak out like this :lol: (I'm not saying that your right or wrong about the other stuff, frankly I don't know or care about any of that) Maybe you're just trying to be dramatic in a funny way? I can't tell with you... but if you're serriously trying to get up a mob of INTjs to repress the ENFps I've got to say that's just weird (and not gunna happen) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
[/hijack]
Here's the more or less official word:
http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Aut...r.27s_syndrome
ENFps, get your facts straight before you come yelling that somebody is autistic.
http://www.geocities.com/richardg_uk/famousac.html
Most inclined to be diagnosed as autistic (IMO) :
1. ILI
2. LSI
3. LII
4. ILE
5. ESI
6. SLE
7. SEI
8. LSE
9. IEI
10. SLI
11. LIE
12. SEE
13. EII
14. IEE
15. EIE
16. ESE
I've even done it for Phitypes :
Most likely (no order) :
0-0
000
---
-0-
0--
00-
0+-
--0
-00
-+0
+++
--+
+--
+0-
I'm referring to autism as lacking Theory of Mind, i.e. confusing one's mind with others' mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herzy
Some forms of autism, especially Asperger Syndrome, don't render the typing process impossible (but may complicate it, especially when dealing with non-NT types)
For example, my dad has AS, and he's ESI. My dad seems to have such thinking : "if I can do that, why won't he do !? what's wrong with that retard !?". Besides, though "outgoing" (myersian ESTJ), he has a very little feeling of need for social contact. He's socially repulsive, mistrusting and hostile.
But AS is more prototypical of ILI or LSI, though. A prototypical autist would be an ILI --- or 0--.
Not at all. It might be somewhat more difficult to type autistic people, but it is certainly not impossible. As I have mentioned many times, Einstein was autistic, and so was Wittgenstein. Both of these two thinkers have been typed by socionists, so at least they believe that it is possible to type autistics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herzy
Yes, but it is only a matter of degree. Asperger is a form of autism; it's the same phenomenon, only a "milder" version of it. And for the record, Einstein would probably have got the diagnosis high-functioning autism instead of Asperger, if he could have been diagnosed back then. The reason for that lies in his early child-hood, where he fits the criteria for autism better than the criteria for Asperger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herzy
People with autism (esp aspergers) don't like to see themselves as mentally ill, and as something which is needing cured, they generally see it as more a personality thing.
source?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
I can't give you the source. Just people I've talked to, programmes i've watched and things i've read.Quote:
Originally Posted by niffweed17
Autism is defined as a personality thing, and it is a personality thing. It can't be cured, because it is not an illness. You are simply born with a different than "normal" brain structure. Autism is a personality disorder, because it is a disorder in comparison with what is considered to be a "normal" personality, but not a single one of the ten personality disorders we usually talk about is an illness. Not even psychopaths are considered to be mentally ill. You cannot cure psychopathy, but you can cure schizophrenia, depression, etc. -- all of which are mentally illnesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
Yeah as far as I'm aware, psychopaths just don't experience emotion like most people do. For instance if you showed some pictures of for instance a table, then an injured puppy, whilst monitoring their brain activities, then nothing in the activity would change, in comparison to the statistical mean of the population where most people would record a change in activity due to a certain amount of empathy the injured animal would produce in them. Do you agree?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
They aren't mentally ill whatsoever. They just have autistic-like thinking patterns. It's not necessarily unhealthy thinking, as long as it's no harm for mankind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
Though :Ti: and :Ni: types tend to have such thinking patterns more than others, I don't think they should go to concentration camps.
It's pretty much like when you refer to LII's as having "a light form of the Schizotypal Personality Disorder".
Yes, that's one aspect of psychopathy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
At the risk of getting too of course on this thread, what would you say the other aspects are. Do you mean like remorse?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
I'm not an expert on psychopathy; I have only read a couple of books and some articles on it. I know much more about autism. Wouldn't it be easier to read an article on psychopathy on the Internet than ask me? You could start with this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PsychopathyQuote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
But if you insist, I think it could be worth mentioning a very clear and very important difference between autistic people and psychopaths. Psychopaths are pathological liars (that is one of the defining traits of that condition), whereas autistic people could perhaps be called "pathological" truth tellers.
Asking you is easier, reading up on the internet I would imagine would be more informative ;) But thanks, I liked your truth-lie observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus
http://www.displaysforschools.com/autism.gif
Inappropriate laughing or crying : TP
No real fear of dangers : NP or SJ
Appearant insensitivity to pain : :Se: or :Ni:
May not want cuddling : NP
Sustained unusual or repetitive play : Intuition
Avoids eye contact : Intuition
Prefers to be alone : Introtimness + Declarativeness
Difficulty in expressing needs : Intuition
Inappropriate attachments to objects : :Se: or :Ni:
Insistence on sameness : IJ
Inappropriate/lacking response to sound : NP or SJ
Difficulty in interacting with others : TP
Not so sure in regards to 'apparent' insensitivity, but to look at this part. As far as I'm aware, if you back to some of Ashura's writings, one of the aspects of Si is that it can regulate pain, perhaps to the extent of 'switching' it off. Is this what you meant? [/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by machintruc
All of the described traits can be found in autistic people, but only one of them is necessary. You can be autistic even if you lack several of them. Only the last one ("difficulty in interacting with others") is a defining trait of autism.
This is probably the most intelligent thing said in this whole thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herzy
On some aspergers and autists support-group, they had tested what they would score. Over 200 people took the test. And over half of them scored as INTj, and the next largest group were ISTj's (about 20%). One geology professor, who also has AS, e-mailed me the results.
Everyone's gonna come out something if they sit a typing test. I'm just not convinced you'll get a valid result on someone with autism for a socionic test. As far as I'm aware, the theory was built around what is regarded 'normal' people, so socionics couldn't be relied on to give an accurate result.
Well, do you see anything strange about that? And do you really think that such a result would support the thesis that autistic people are untypable. It does not, because there is a clear predominance of IT types among autists. It may even be the case that almost all of them are IT types. Ethical types are not autistic. I am not 100 % sure that they can't be, but I don't know one single example of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord
Yeah I agree. I was going to bold that "score".Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
Imo the test results only tell that Ti is least affected by autism.
What do you think of socionic tests' unaccuracy ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord
They are about 1000000 times more accurate than this:Quote:
Originally Posted by machintruc
;)Quote:
Inappropriate laughing or crying : TP
No real fear of dangers : NP or SJ
Appearant insensitivity to pain : or
May not want cuddling : NP
Sustained unusual or repetitive play : Intuition
Avoids eye contact : Intuition
Prefers to be alone : Introtimness + Declarativeness
Difficulty in expressing needs : Intuition
Inappropriate attachments to objects : or
Insistence on sameness : IJ
Inappropriate/lacking response to sound : NP or SJ
Difficulty in interacting with others : TP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord
What test did you use ?
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
How gracious of you? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Machintruc
Nobody is actually regarded "normal". The Neurotypical Archetype isn't relevant to any type. Each type can be regarded as "not-normal". For example, ILI's would refer to the typical autistic stand-offish dude Archetype, SEE's would refer to the typical ADHD retard Archetype, and LII's would refer to the typical nerdy alien philosopher Archetype. But whatever.
Nobody should think "people hate me because they think I'm not normal". That's childish thinking.
People may have these ways of acting - whatever his/her type :
- Acting in a natural, proactive manner, with integrity and responsibility (the best way)
- Acting in a conservative manner, not really being conformist but with not much boldness either.
- Acting in a conformist manner, being adaptive and trying to be the most "normal" possible. Most people tolerate this, as long as it doesn't harm anybody. (This kind of behaviour isn't that bad...)
- Acting in a reactive manner, being capricious, like a typical teenager. Not tolerating frustration.
- Acting like faking integrity, in order to appear superficially proactive, and to be accepted by others on the short term.
- Acting like a victim. "Whatever, nobody accepts me because I don't fit in. It's like somethings wrong with us/me."
(source: Morler's Levels of Emotional Maturity)
True. That's a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by machintruc
I'm an LSI-Ti who was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, not sure when it was, but people thought I was on the spectrum when I was a kid. My theory of mind was terrible when I was a kid, but now it's almost the complete opposite... doesn't mean that I always act in others' interests, but I understand the differences now better. But the guy who diagnosed me was an EIE-Ni, and they don't see things for what they are. I've developed my feeling functions more as I've become older and am somewhat uncomfortable with them (really, I still tend to intellectualize empathy or concern for someone else), although my social and spatial skills are still terrible and I try to avoid doing things unless there is a good reason.
Anyway, unless it's a beautiful woman who makes me horny, I generally prefer solitude, part of it's due to embarrassment, and part of it just that I don't think I can read people well enough and am extremely selective in who I hang out with. I like good solitary activities, I could take or leave competitions usually. Totally don't know how to work with kids.
Seems like I have stereotypical schizophrenic brain (what I'm referring to is hyper-mentalizing) and stereotypical autistic one (favoring hyper-systemization/mechanizing). But both are socially introverted.
Seems like LSI-Se would be one of the most common types for autism due to them not knowing what people wanting, knowing what's there but not really thinking about what's missing, their low level of affective empathy, them not having many emotions, them usually making decisions on logic and self-interest; LSI-Ti is too empathetic, too emotional, too assuming, too personable, needs emotional interaction too much, and is too concerned with what other people are doing. ESI-Se and ILE-Ti also seem likely, many ESI-Se because they think they're so logical and because they don't really seek emotional connection with others, and ILE-Ti partly due to some of them focusing on details, fixity of interests, most of them not needing emotional connection, many of them having moral rigidity, their Causal Determinist cognition meaning they have no clue of or won't act on what someone wants until they're given direction. I think LII would be unlikely due to their concern for everyone else and their strong emotions. SLE-Ti is common and I could also see EIE-Fe being autistic. Basically, types that think clearly, that don't make assumptions, see things for what they are, are more worried about what's in it for them, who want evidence, who control their emotions, who don't have much emotional connection with people/non-sentimental, who are independent, and who favor doing what makes sense and who question or don't like social norms or who don't feel comfortable forcing people to adhere to norms.
The outcasts and branded heretics of loser ville and depleted magicka is never land bunny blank space in the absent minded dollhouse of make believe vistas to oasis star.