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No, if I were to hang out with someone I had a serious crush on when I was 15, I'd probably get kind of agitated, two decades later. And I'm creative Fi. And a crush feeling is a lot like a falling-in-love feeling for me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
No opinion about the rest. I just don't think that's a sign of Fi PoLR in the least. In fact I'd say it's probably pretty strong Fi.
You're talking about the flood of Phenylalanine, Dopamine, and Norepinephrine that people experience during a crush or the "honey moon" phase of a relationship... if that's all there is to a relationship, it dies when those chemicals are no longer flooding the brain (around six months to three years later).
Is that the feeling of "love" that you were talking about FDG?
Or to sum it up for Bionicgoat:
:PQuote:
Originally Posted by Joy
Rejection is taking things personally.
Yes, that is my take on it as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
One way to see it as Fi PoLR is that a PoLR can also be manifested in going for extremes, excesses, which is what Joy seems to be saying (if I got her right).
But even then, I see it differently. I see Fi PoLR as not having a clue about how the other person sees it. An extreme case of Fi PoLR would be the guy (or gal, whatever) who thinks that the girl is already "in love with me" because they had two dates, and regard it as a huge offense and betrayal if she refuses a third date - and the same guy later dump a woman after years of marriage and wonder "why she's making such a fuss about it, she should just get over it and get a life. I think she's a psycho to take it so badly".
Care to elaborate? Examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno
If there's too much romantic interest to start with friendship, I would rather have them as counsellors, colleagues, or adventure buddies.Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels
Yes, I'm a girl. The secret is probably that I joke about sexual matters very easily. Or that I can say the right things at the right time. Or that I can carry people away with dreams. Or that I let out different aspects to my personality that go against first impression. My ESE friend thinks my appeal lies in that I often tease her and leave her hanging. I have no explanation for why people find me "fascinating" at first sight, though.
The initiation of my friendship with my SEE friend succeeded because I'd spied on him for a year before I made contact with him. Time to tell what things we had in common, so I wasn't at a loss for conversation topics when I approached him. My EIE friend is more deliberate about it -- he used to take this observation a step further by preying on the desperate and weak, and then preying on their vulnerabities. He's also good at mirroring people to get what he wants.
You can say further that it's due to your "higher market value" and "greater confidence" :P -- I think you are mixing up "being with anyone" and "being with someone".Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
I should add somestuff about EIE (ENFj) at this point.
About wekneses - ENFj know that people have weakneses, and they have them themselves. They fight with own weakneses in Ni/Se style and with pure lacking of Si. To force, to make feel uncomfortable with them, EJ tempr - but with great Empathy, and great love , that really accepting people as they are at this moment in case ENFj see the person will "improve" with a time / can get positive lessons. Acting as "teacher" he have very big tolerance for those who want to improve, and uinderstanding for cases when current weakness is just current personality trait - in this case it should be understandable to ENFj.
They know mostly that no perfect people - only perfect motives and actions exist. The case with manipulating weknesses - i think in that case EIE just want some kind of same Se behaviour and he in care of his own weakneses (complex).
About "lets be friends"
EIE can tell it himself in case he notice that for some period his demands was not followed or just noticed he were not accepted in some "unpleasant" or "wrong" manner. At same time he knows that he can mistake and things he waits that refused will "understand, and come back" and will be accepted, ENFj will feel guilty for refusing, (victim behaviour) or just his refusal and suspision of "wrong" actions should be Se-forced in manner "heh you see how i act, how you dare to think i cant to that/i am bad"????. Really if he refusing he waiting for persuading and forcing him re-make his opinnion. In case it is not happen he will be dissapointed and then completely sure about righteousnes of his refusal.
In case he was refused he will act in same Se pattern.
Yes, it's because when I sometimes feel rejected, I start thinking in Socionics terms: not everyone is compatible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
The feeling of rejection is because you take it to personally.
Like bad luck is the same as taking randomness personally. (I've read this somewhere that's why I started to match this with rejection)
The way you downplay romance is also offensive. Everything you say is offensive. Your presence on this planet is offensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
I truly have no words for you, woman. A waste of oxygen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
Wow.
It's quite obvious that some of the posters here are replying in reference to situations they are currently in or have been in and have strong feelings about. Much of what I've said has been taken out of context due to this. People have repeatedly tried to apply what I've said to their personal experiences in situations which are not similar to the situations my statements were intended to describe. I know I've done the same exact thing, probably to a greater extent, during times that were particularly stressful, especially where intimate relationships are concerned.
To those for whom this applies, I'll leave you to talk about your own lives and feelings and try to make sense of it all with Socionics, thus assuming that your personal experiences during particularly stressful, frustrating, or lonely periods in your life represent characteristics of entire types or specific functions, making sweeping generalizations as a result.
actually it looks like this :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy
:-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionicgoat
From an IM conversation:
Quote:
Joy: what people seemed to be missing
Joy: is that the "supply and demand" thing wasn't about ENTjs
Joy: it was about people in general
Joy: and all I was saying is that someone who has a difficult time finding anyone who they think would want to be with them
Joy: is going to be more likely to "love" someone from afar, doubting their chances for a relationship with that person
Joy: or anyone, really
Joy: and then when they can't stand it anymore and try to make something happen, they're going to take a rejection a lot harder than say....
Joy: someone who knows FROM EXPERIENCE that all they have to do is show someone a little attention and that person will do all the work to hook up with them
Other Person: well, that's basically what I was disagreeing on
Other Person: regardless of what type a person is
Other Person: I don't think it necessarily makes a difference, even if they can be with "anyone"
Joy: I'm NOT saying that they'll be confident that it will be easy to find the right person
Joy: but that they won't be as hesitant to show someone a little attention... or whatever it is they do to see if someone is interested... and they'll know pretty quickly whether or not they've got a shot with that person
Joy: BEFORE they convince themselves that this person is perfect for them, and begin "loving" that person from afar
Joy: logically, the right person... or someone they're compatible with... IS out there somewhere
Joy: it's just a matter of figuring out who
Joy: and for someone who doesn't need to worry that they'll find the "right" person but that person won't want them
Joy: it's a more painless process... it involves finding people who you think may be right for you
Joy: and finding out if that person is interested in a relationship
Joy: and if not, it means that they're not the right person
Joy: where as people who think themselves unworthy because not many people want to hook up with them take rejection as being about them being an unlovable loser
Joy: not simply a matter of incompatibility
Joy: and one's sense of self worth is not type related
Other Person: yeah
I think I see your point. Someone who is confident will check to see if the object of their affection is interested before they've invested much emotion in the potential relationship. So if the person isn't interested, they're able to move on before getting to a point where they'd feel really crushed.
I love how ENFps are able to rephrase stuff I say so that it doesn't piss people off. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
As far as the Fi PoLR stuff with FDG, I didn't realize that he was just talking about that on top of the world, rose colored glasses feeling that you get when you have a big crush or at the beginning of a relationship. Everyone experiences that. It's not type related.
I wrote that the other time with an ENTj guy I have known IRL in mind. He had described his attitude as "selfish and possessive" after he had broken up with his girlfriend of eight years (he had been with her since he was 13 years old and had known her all his life). I guess he wasn't satisfied with the reasons she gave and kept wanting to take her back during the next few months post-breakup. He's a rather high achiever in everything he does, so he couldn't take any failure or rejection at stride or accept "no" as an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat
If he is indeed ENTj, I wouldn't be so sure that those were his precise motivations.Quote:
Originally Posted by eunice
Bingo!Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
I usually like to start a conversation with a certain lady of intrest so that way I build a common ground and hopefully a confort zone with her. That way, I can see if she's interested, by observations, and work my way up until I have triumphed.
I have also obeserved that in at least one ENFJ in a MAJOR MAJOR way, and 2 other ENFJs in lesser ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by raisonpure
I can stand rejection unless it makes sense.
But normally, if I'm not the one doing the rejecting (which I hate doing), I'm pissed and bothered for a while.
One of my exes dropped me to "explore other people" and wanted to stay friends. However I couldn't keep my hands off her while we were hanging out so we had to cut it off.
I have rejected various people and tried to be friends with them:
-ESTPs become absolutely furious and try to get back at you
-same for ISFPs
-same for ENTPs
-same for ENFPs
-same for ENFJs
-same for ISTPs
-same for ESFPs
-same for ISTJs
-same for ENTJs
-same for INFPs
-same for ESFJs
-same for INFJs
-same for ESTJs
-same for ISFJs
No idea about INTJs.
I usually completely void them from my life.
I'll even make the best effort not to look at them in the eye. Because it's rather pointless, really.
One chance, per woman, per lifetime.
Talk about hypersensitive, huh? :o
That's just plain retarded. :8* Unless you know about another lifetime that you're gonna get. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by intjguy
Exactly. But you could train someone else to get the girl for you. Then you get a couple of roofies and wa-la.
jk
Yes. I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarno
I explained that lately in this thread if you read carefully. You see picture that made by your head with your traits and based on your experience. Note that someone may act to percieve other goals than you see/capable to think of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dioklecian
Btw one of most ENFjs traits: Global-thinking, Hi-moralistic, Strict in moral / humanity rules / Controversed and Artistic (art was alsway been provocating to revive other thoughts/feelings), Empathic.
Btw about ISTp rejecting ENFj - The ISTp see ENFj from his experiences and point of veiw (he is individualistic = selfish for ENFj) and percieve in different, destructive (for ENFj) way that ENFj really does (remember here is Strict hidden Ni is dominant). Then ENFj probably will start action, seeing that he was percieved wrong to explain himself , but still it will be NI (long time perfomance) SE (force), and actions will be look as "opposite" for ISTp , as more "wrong-looking" and etc.
I would say same as you said about ISTps actually..... I can say more stuff - but i will not cause i can understand that i cant understand that person objectively - then i just exit , and will not say anything cause its pointless, cause i dont know deep background and i will be too subjective...
think about it :) ;) :Se:
Weird. That's how I'd respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by njio
Not this:
I don't really show that i'm uncomfortable. Frankly, I don't think I've ever experienced a real rejection. Just this once, I told this guy that I'm interested, and he said that it's not the right time yet.Quote:
ENFP: Will be very uncomfortable and awkward next time you run into each other and will say something like "yes, well. I'd better go get some cheese from the buffet..."
I was like, "ok". -end of story-
Confidence or just plain sanity/common sense. Dwelling on these feelings is never too pleasant for people after awhile. And even the most shyest/awkwardest person eventually tries to see if the person still likes him depending on how big the crush is, so I doubt it has anything to do with confidence. Sometimes though I like to think about a crush for awhile, but I know I'll get depressed if I just dwell on the feelings with no actions so I just stop until I can ask him if he likes me too.Quote:
Someone who is confident will check to see if the object of their affection is interested before they've invested much emotion in the potential relationship.
Look, I just think people should be a tad more optimistic. Yes, you could get rejected but prolly not for the reasons you're thinking of. The truth is if you really like a person chances are you have a good shot with them despite how much people like to play the my love is so tragic and helpless card. Otherwise you wouldn't be hurting yourself that way, as nobody likes to chase windmills. Yeah I think you hear about the kind of romance where two people fall in love that are from different classes and shit, but I think that is rare and besides, they will most likely turn you off that way anyway. I am tired of the cutesy games people play sometimes. As a few people already know, I will tell you (in private, one-on-one) if I have a crush on you regardless if it's returned or not. (which I believe it still is or it can be, the other person is just uncertain) I guess I wear my heart on my sleeve but I figure... look, real, special feelings between actually giving a shit about another person is rare. So I might as well go with what I've got. And I'm probably the most unconfident person I know. I think a confident person would just be happier by themselves anyway, though I know now that living alone is not for me.
An ESFj told me one time 'omg what if that person says he hates you and blablabla' - but chances are you see something special in him/her already so you wouldn't be having these lovey-dovey feelings otherwise, as what would be the point? You already know damn well the person you like isn't going to be screaming in your face 'I hate you omg' and start making fun of you and all that shit anyway. Yes some people are turned on by aggression and playing hard to get, but 'real love' isn't like that. You probably like them because you feel they treat you in a special way compared to others, or whatever reason...you just do. You sense an inner compatibility.
I don't really have to 'do anything' when a person likes me in real life anyhow. I usually only feel obligated to 'formulate' my love when we're apart. All I do is kind of just send out good vibes and I notice they come to me (they'll make an excuse like they want me to help them with a problem but they really just want to get to know me better) Sometimes they'll ask me out directly. I've turned them down though before in the past as I'm still fairly young and I was SO not comfortable 'dating.' Now I wouldn't do that but yeah. Everything to do with me, nothing to do with them. That's what Jarno means when he says 'takes rejection personally.' Everybody I've ever liked has talked to me because I send messages that I am approachable and want to talk to them. If I don't want to get to know somebody, I just close off and I let them know discreetly I do not want to be bothered. That's why I believe there is no such thing as true unrequited love.
There's a quote I heard on Starting Over (yes I used to love that show, hehe) about how that unfortunately, people's fears are more powerful than their feelings of love, or something like that, and that's very true. Until a person conquers their own inner fears about themselves, they'll never love you, or anybody else for that matter.
Fuck. I type too much. ;p
I think you're exactly right.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
I wish I could be one of those people that shrugs it off and moves on. I've never dealt well with rejection of any sort...I seem to be missing that ability. I analyze the whole relationship and what I did wrong and what I should or shouldn't have said or how I should have acted. It's too stressful for me and I get fairly depressed afterwards and will usually try to manipulate the person into giving me clues on what went wrong...doesn't really work and they end up thinking i'm insane and so I jump from shallow relationship to shallow relationship trying to correct this but it never works. Sort of a vicious cycle. I really need to learn how to let things go and move on. It doesn't sit well with me that some people just don't like me. Yes, it hurts my feelings.
Hmm. I think this shows that dealing with rejection is not type related.
Yeah. Probobly more to do with your experiences growing up...how you deal with abandoment issues and what not and your level of confidence. I'm sure I have some sort of abandoment problems, ha.
It would be so nice to actually be able to do this. When it comes to love, my emotions go from 2 m/s to the speed of light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
If someone I loved confronted me saying they only want to be friends, I'd feel awkward, impassioned, yet deep disappointment, but respect their decision. I'd rather we didn't talk about definitions than have to hear that. If they merely withdrew their personal conversation and/or physical affection, that would be enough for me to get the hint and grant them all the space they desire. But it may require lots of time and energy to resolve my feelings after that, on my own. Seeing them would be hard, if my interest is strong.
If I don't have strong emotions and/or attraction to begin with, I see ABSOLUTELY NO reason to start a relationship.
Not so fast. For example, Expat's comments about ENTjs make a lot of sense, IME.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mea
Yeah, that's perfect. Some people are scared of feeling love because of course that "gives power" to the other party.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
In spite of the somewhat unclear way you have written that, I understand it perfectly, and you are spot on! Especially the part about the ENFj wanting to make up for his(her) behavior and do "good" for the ISTp using Ni (long time performance, as you said) and Se. You are right, the actions (s)he takes do look "wrong", it does look like the ENFj hasn't understood anything and completely misses the point of the conflict and what's worse (s)he continues to piss the ISTp off. The ISTp is like "what the fuck is (s)he doing? I don't want her to do that!" but on the other hand the ISTp sort of feels sorry for and cannot be angry at the ENFj because he knows the ENFj had the best "intentions" and only wanted to be good to him(her).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorc
The whole relation is really fucked up actually, but you have done a good job. I wish you could write more...
*sigh* Tell me about it .............Quote:
Originally Posted by jessica129