instead of "xxxx are evil", how bout this (ESTp's)
Instead of all of the "xxxx are evil" or "I hate xxxx's" type threads how bout this instead. Help me to understand and better appreciate type xxxx. I think this is a little more positive and productive.
I'll start.
Help me to understand and better appreciate ESTp's better.
Of all the types out there, the ones I'm most likely to hate and think are evil are ESTp's. In generic stereotypical terminology that I've seen about this type, I can't stand the "I'm a stud, the world revolves around me" attitude, and the "it's not myyiiieeeee fault that..." lack of personal responsibility. I've known 3 real life examples of ESTp's, and I've seen this in all of them, and I hate it. Of course, I'm better than this. I know there are good and bad things about all personality types out there including my own (whatever it truly is :P). I see the bad about ESTp's, but I'd also like to see the good. I've read Keirsey's PUMII so I know a thing or two about the good already, but what else is there? Show me the light. :)
And yes, this post was very :Fe: :wink:
Re: instead of "xxxx are evil", how bout this (EST
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevINP
And yes, this post was very :Fe: :wink:
To be honest, that post sound more that of an introvert. If you truely ARE an introvert, then that means you don't see things as well in terms of "abilities", and how you stack up against other people. This is why an introvert might get frustrated at someone like an SLE for being a showboater; they don't think that the braggot has the goods he claims to have. And you might be right. But that doesn't change the fact that you see things diffrently and that the SLE doesn't really know what he's doing or trying to make you feel inferior or something.
Re: instead of "xxxx are evil", how bout this (EST
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevINP
Instead of all of the "xxxx are evil" or "I hate xxxx's" type threads how bout this instead. Help me to understand and better appreciate type xxxx. I think this is a little more positive and productive.
I'll start.
Help me to understand and better appreciate ESTp's better.
Of all the types out there, the ones I'm most likely to hate and think are evil are ESTp's. In generic stereotypical terminology that I've seen about this type, I can't stand the "I'm a stud, the world revolves around me" attitude, and the "[i]
Imagine if you felt dead inside for not having that attitude. Try not taking a piss for a couple of days and that's what it's like for an estp not to be themselves. Understand we can not help this so called SUPEREGO, it just is.
Re: instead of "xxxx are evil", how bout this (EST
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEars
Imagine if you felt dead inside for not having that attitude. Try not taking a piss for a couple of days and that's what it's like for an estp not to be themselves. Understand we can not help this so called SUPEREGO, it just is.
oh well that I understand. :wink:
I know people are different and are just going to be how they are. ESTp's are just very very different from me and I "dislike" how they are and maybe even find it offensive. It's not personal, just very strange and foreign to me. I want to understand them better, though. My sister is an ESTp and we don't get along at all and don't even really speak to each other. This pains my parents too, and I feel guilty about it. So part of my motivation to understand ESTp's better is to help understand my own sister so that maybe we can have a more normal brother-sister relationship someday. It's sad, but I feel closer to my brother and sister in-laws from my wife than I do with my own sister. :(
But I think I'm making a lot of progress here so I'm happy. :)
And isn't this a helluva lot better and more productive than if I had turned this into an "I hate ESTp's" thread? :wink: :lol:
Re: instead of "xxxx are evil", how bout this (EST
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevINP
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEars
Imagine if you felt dead inside for not having that attitude. Try not taking a piss for a couple of days and that's what it's like for an estp not to be themselves. Understand we can not help this so called SUPEREGO, it just is.
oh well that I understand. :wink:
I know people are different and are just going to be how they are. ESTp's are just very very different from me and I "dislike" how they are and maybe even find it offensive. It's
not personal, just very strange and foreign to me. I want to understand them better, though. My sister is an ESTp and we don't get along at all and don't even really speak to each other. This pains my parents too, and I feel guilty about it. So part of my motivation to understand ESTp's better is to help understand my own sister so that maybe we can have a more normal brother-sister relationship someday. It's sad, but I feel closer to my brother and sister in-laws from my wife than I do with my own sister. :(
But I think I'm making a lot of progress here so I'm happy. :)
And isn't this a helluva lot better and more productive than if I had turned this into an "I hate ESTp's" thread? :wink: :lol:
If you truly wanted to help your sister you would appreciate her for what she is. MALE and FEMALE SLE/ESTp's are completly different according to an article I just read, so I really don't think my description of what we are will help. But if she's anything like me she would rather you stop trying to compare yourself to her. She has been winning contest her entire life, she's going to be this way. The best thing to get along with her is not to feed her bullshit, because she knows the difference. Arguing with her will make a situation worse, because in her eyes she is taking all the practical and logical evidence and applying towards the subject to come to a conclusive answer. Therefore, whatever she says is probably right and you are probably wrong. keyword=probably. I can't seem to get along with my brother, simply because he is always comparing himself to me and I am 7 years younger. I don't like that in itself and the fact that he would even do that is pathetic. I just tell him now and days "I don't want to hear it" when he tries to spark an argument or compare himself to me. I would assume that if your sister did this it would help as well. Also, blaze has an estp husband she might be able to tell you more about them.
Re: instead of "xxxx are evil", how bout this (EST
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEars
If you truly wanted to help your sister you would appreciate her for what she is.
And that's exactly what this thread is about, trying to appreciate and understand her so that perhaps, someday, I can relate to her, sit down in a room with her, and actually have a conversation with her, and make my parents so happy that they tear up when they see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEars
MALE and FEMALE SLE/ESTp's are completly different according to an article I just read, so I really don't think my description of what we are will help. But if she's anything like me she would rather you stop trying to compare yourself to her.
The comparisons were from others, not me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEars
She has been winning contest her entire life, she's going to be this way. The best thing to get along with her is not to feed her bullshit, because she knows the difference. Arguing with her will make a situation worse, because in her eyes she is taking all the practical and logical evidence and applying towards the subject to come to a conclusive answer. Therefore, whatever she says is probably right and you are probably wrong. keyword=probably.
This is precisely why I have so much difficulty relating to and dealing with SLE's. "all the practical and logical evidence" in the SLE world only relates to Sensory things, not iNtuititve things. here is how it goes.
1) SLE states their opinion/view with primarily Se/Si viewpoints.
2) LIE (me) states mine with primarily Ne/Ni viewpoints.
3) SLE does not see or accept that Ne/Ni even exists
4) SLE says my points are bullshit, I'm stupid, a moron, yadda yadda
5) SLE gets themselves into trouble again, maybe due to not seeing Ne/Ni viewpoint.
6) SLE starts with "it's not my fault that..." shifting the blame away.
7) LIE (me): sigh... :8*
So I've learned to avoid SLE's in general because of this or if I can't, to at least avoid arguing with them because it's utterly pointless for me, especially my own sister. Anytime I open my mouth with her I almost immediately get the "you're so stupid" or "STFU" standoffish look even if I'm just trying to make conversation. Maybe it's something beyond a personality conflict, but I don't know. It's not possible to argue with her if I can't even talk to her in the first place. My father (INTj) has pretty much the same problem just trying to talk to her.
SLE's tend to live in the moment though. They don't think about the mistakes of yesterday, nor the consequences tomorrow. Just right now. So maybe they don't care, and they're perfectly happy with this. NT's are strategic long-range thinkers though, and that's probably a big part of the conflict. Any decision I make today, I'm also thinking about consequences of that decision months if not years or decades down the road. So if they don't care, why should I? So now I'm indifferent and just try to avoid whenever possible. But I'd still like to have some sort of "normal" relationship with my sister if I can...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEars
I can't seem to get along with my brother, simply because he is always comparing himself to me and I am 7 years younger. I don't like that in itself and the fact that he would even do that is pathetic. I just tell him now and days "I don't want to hear it" when he tries to spark an argument or compare himself to me. I would assume that if your sister did this it would help as well. Also, blaze has an estp husband she might be able to tell you more about them.
Well, it's not about trying to compare. I wouldn't do that, and I haven't even really spoken to my sister in 10 years. Although maybe others in my family do. Maybe my parents try to say to her "you should be more like your brother", which pisses her off, and builds resentment both towards her and towards me. The rare times my sister and I are in the same room I can just feel the negativity from her towards me and I have no clue where the hell it's coming from. If my wife and I are together, she usually leaves the room. I think the scenario above that I mentioned with my parents could be for real, so I'll have to ask them about it.
I very much understand that she's going to run and live her life the way SHE wants to run it and doesn't want anybody telling her what to do, or how she should be. I never did this to her, as I'm her "little brother". Who am I to be giving my "big sis" advice? My dad says she's "FIERCELY" independent, and he's INTj. I think maybe he does try to tell her how to live and what to do. Since I'm similar to my dad and he and I do get along very well, he might use me as an example, and that could be where the resentment comes from. I don't know....
Anyways, I'm glad you're hear BigEars. :wink: