How can one be an NT, intuitive and logical at the same time?
How someone can be an NT. They seem so paradoxical - while iNtuitives are visionaries; controlled by imagination which overrules their logic and judgement, Thinkers, by comparison are logical, consistent and rational beings.
How can these two seemingly contrasting aspects go together?
Also can someone please explain how, although the 8 in the Enneagram is generally a passionate person, their primary types are ESTj and ENTj - characterised by reason?
Re: Can Someone Please Explain
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Originally Posted by Ezra
How someone can be an NT. They seem so paradoxical - while iNtuitives are visionaries; controlled by imagination which overrules their logic and judgement, Thinkers, by comparison are logical, consistent and rational beings.
How can these two seemingly contrasting aspects go together?
They go together differently for each of the 4 NT types.
If you want to put it like that, :Ni: and :Ne: dominants are indeed "visionaires", but for NTs their visions are "fed" by logical input.
For :Te: and :Ti: dominants, their logical thoughts are "fed" by intuitive perceptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
Also can someone please explain how, although the 8 in the Enneagram is generally a passionate person, their primary types are ESTj and ENTj - characterised by reason?
Well not everyone would agree that 8s are mainly ENTjs and ESTjs.
The way I see it, 8 is a direct descendant of Jung's Extraverted Thinking type, however, I think Jung's description was based on observations of several logical types, including ESTps, and there is more than a "flavor" of ESTp in it.
The "passionate" bit would be due to the ESTp influence; but lots of 8 are not consistent with ESTp, either.
My personal conclusion is that the 16 Socionics types are closest to reality, and the Enneagram's type are less perfect although still very useful. But there is no general agreement, as far as I know, on the correlation between the systems.
Re: Can Someone Please Explain
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Originally Posted by Ezra
... iNtuitives are visionaries; controlled by imagination which overrules their logic and judgement, Thinkers, by comparison are logical, consistent and rational beings.
What a load of crap.
Re: Can Someone Please Explain
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Originally Posted by snegledmaca
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
... iNtuitives are visionaries; controlled by imagination which overrules their logic and judgement, Thinkers, by comparison are logical, consistent and rational beings.
What a load of crap.
Just as misunderstanding. :wink:
Re: Can Someone Please Explain
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Originally Posted by snegledmaca
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
... iNtuitives are visionaries; controlled by imagination which overrules their logic and judgement, Thinkers, by comparison are logical, consistent and rational beings.
What a load of crap.
Well if you read Jung's descriptions (not that Ezra is necessarily doing that) you get that impression.
Re: Can Someone Please Explain
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Originally Posted by Expat
Quote:
Originally Posted by snegledmaca
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
... iNtuitives are visionaries; controlled by imagination which overrules their logic and judgement, Thinkers, by comparison are logical, consistent and rational beings.
What a load of crap.
Well if you read Jung's descriptions (not that Ezra is necessarily doing that) you get that impression.
What, that it is a load of crap or that "iNtuitives are visionaries; controlled by imagination which overrules their logic and judgement, Thinkers, by comparison are logical, consistent and rational beings"?
Re: Can Someone Please Explain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
What, that it is a load of crap or that "iNtuitives are visionaries; controlled by imagination which overrules their logic and judgement, Thinkers, by comparison are logical, consistent and rational beings"?
The latter. If you follow Jung's descriptions, it's easy to reach the conclusion that Extraverted Intuitives and Introverted Intuitives have very little logic, and vice-versa.
I don't recommend that you use Jung's descriptions for socionics, btw.
Re: Can Someone Please Explain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezra
How someone can be an NT. They seem so paradoxical - while iNtuitives are visionaries; controlled by imagination which overrules their logic and judgement, Thinkers, by comparison are logical, consistent and rational beings.
How can these two seemingly contrasting aspects go together?
Also can someone please explain how, although the 8 in the Enneagram is generally a passionate person, their primary types are ESTj and ENTj - characterised by reason?
that's what makes the type so rare.
intuition comes from the right half of the brain. thinking the left. the two don't normally go together. NT's use both sides maybe even equally. the logic on one doesn't get mixed with the other in the same way. i can think something through logically, yet at the same time have a feeling that something isn't right.... however on the other hand, i may not resposond to it as fast. intuition has a tendency to use feeling and emotion. i'm not totally in tune with emotion and to know if it's mine or not - so i may not be able to use it as fully as i assume the F could. but i can get the gist of things to happen - often based on a logical sequence.
Re: Can Someone Please Explain
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
that's what makes the type so rare.
intuition comes from the right half of the brain. thinking the left. the two don't normally go together. NT's use both sides maybe even equally. the logic on one doesn't get mixed with the other in the same way. i can think something through logically, yet at the same time have a feeling that something isn't right.... however on the other hand, i may not resposond to it as fast. intuition has a tendency to use feeling and emotion. i'm not totally in tune with emotion and to know if it's mine or not - so i may not be able to use it as fully as i assume the F could. but i can get the gist of things to happen - often based on a logical sequence.
I see. So that explains the underlying hostility coming from NTs when I state that my type is ENTj. NTs feel special, and they abhor people claiming to be something they're not.
Well, unlucky people, because it's confirmed. I am ENTj, and will remain that to the end of my days.
Now to develop myself so as to become more balanced.