Are you sure you are not ENFp?Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandletlive
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Are you sure you are not ENFp?Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandletlive
"I'm able to see other people's intentions what they want, what they don't want" = :Se: .Quote:
Originally Posted by XoX
Desires.
Hmm..sounds a bit shallow even if kind of logical. And ENFps can't what other people want? I wonder what are the main differences on how ENFps and ESFps use :Fi: and look "inside" people.Quote:
Originally Posted by electric
:Ne: focuses on motivations and underlying reasons for actions, things which are not so concrete and obvious. :Se: focuses on what people desire as in concrete and obvious needs. And just so :Ne: types don't get to carried away with themselves 'underlying' doesn't always mean the reasons actually exsit.Quote:
Originally Posted by XoX
yeah what he said... yeah im definitely unequivocably esfp
Well, ok :)
About socializing with ILIs. During last week I have had the opportunity to socialize with a person I think is Fe subtype ESFj and a person who is Ni subtype INTp. The Ni-INTp was really charming. The Fe-ESFj was absolutely annoying.
The Ni-INTp was a really awesome person who I have absolutely no problems discussing with. Actually we discussed about various topics with increasing sense of liking each other. He is just great. Although a bit bad at taking initiatives :) Actually he made me become way more initiative taking than I usually am as it was easy to sense when I should take the initiative and when not. He made is so clear on times that he is not going to take the initiative and someone else SHOULD take it or nothing happens. So it was very easy and natural for me to take the initiative. With my wife I have adjusted myself a lot to her initiative taking nature. So much that often I naturally let her do the initiative taking in many matters should I want to avoid an argument about it. It seems to depend a lot who you interact with how your personality comes out as. At least in my case as I tend to adapt to whom I interact with.
However, I could say that you can't converse with a Fe-ESFj. Much less than with an INTp. They just push all that emotion at you and can't seem to focus at all on anything but their emotions. I just cannot talk or interact with them at all. I can only watch their emotions running around wild. It can be entertaining for a second but as soon as you realize they are like that 24 hours a day and they will never stop and listen to you it gets annoying.
I would also say that for me Ni-INTp is a better match than Te-INTp. Also Si-ESFj I can handle MUCH better than Fe-ESFj. This experience also made me seriously doubt I could be any Fe-quadra type despite all the evidence people have been pouring at me. The preference for INTp > ESFj was so clear. I guess some Beta types might see things this way. Especially Ni-INFp I suppose.
I definitely agree- ESFjs piss me off like no other... i wud look into the gamma quadra if you got along with the INTp (no offense to INTp's but) it kinda says sumthing in the fact that you got along with them lol
The main reason why I don't socialize, is simply because I don't want to constantly explain why I don't drink.
Wich of course to other people makes me worse enemy of society than Osama Bin Laden. I mean at least "he has religious reasons not to".
So it's just me and Adolf ******.
Not necessarily. There are INTp's that are hard to get along with. But usually it's easy to get along with INTp's for people of any quadras. INTp's are normally likeable to everyone, once people just talk with them. Assuming that the INTp wants to be liked. It's just forming a deeper connection that's difficult, and this can start to annoy other people. So sometimes it might be that people like the INTp more than the INTp feels he is liked. But then again sometimes I feel that people like me too much. But when people of other quadras know the INTp better, then the Gamma values start to show up, wich of course annoys people of other quadras.Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandletlive
I think quite a few people to put it mildly find it difficult to socialise with INTps. I am going to steal the words of a previous poster to describe the INTp that I most in contact with (because I live with him)and those words are hateful and materialistic(yet not overly ambitious either). I am actually very pleased that he is so solitary and stays by himself as I find him rather impulsive and aggressive. He is really laid back most times but sometimes he becomes "activated" and that is when he is at his most damaging. He shouts at people for the simpliest reasons at those times and his behavior just makes to sense to me in general and serves to keep people observing him away. Then he returns to an almost benign state and acts as if he never did anything offensive and that relations have not changed. I keep hoping that he will realise that most people probably are not expecting him to go to the extreme and be nice and sugary sweet or even sociable...just neutral, non-aggressive and vaguely civil on a consistent basis.
On the positive side, he is very quiet and calm normally and not constantly in others' face being nagging, emotionally demanding or annoying, some people find it easier to socialize with others who are like that. Even though he is so unpleasant seeming, he has a small circle of friends who he really cares for and who cares for him and he is good at maintaining those friendships and he does socializes with them quite often. For some reason I find it kind of hard to dislike him even though I avoid his company actively and consciously.
I don't know the reasons why you are opposed to drinking but maybe just as an experiment go out and get hammered one night (a very :Se: thing to do) and see what happens... at the very least at least you could say you tried it and the experience will just reinforce what you previously felt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord
I feel the same way about myself haha duals are cool :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan
aww the poor guy's just trying to protect his hidden agenda... you probably find it hard to dislike him because:
a) you both share :Ni: as the primary function (if you're INFp socionics which = INFJ MBTI)
b) he does achieve his hidden agenda shows that he cares every once and a while which makes up for the shittyness
c) he's demanding of others because he's demanding of himself and he critiques out of love- he just wants it all (the situation, the individual, etc.) to be better, to improve and to reach this end you have to learn your mistakes ( :Ni: + :Te: )
d) all in all you know he loves you and it means the world to him that you put up with his crap and love him too :)
I know what happens, it destroys my braincells :)Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandletlive
you EXFps make everyone sound awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandletlive
I think the guy is her brother or something like that. If he's teenager, he probably improves when he gets older. And people take their relatives for granted. So his behaviour is probably worse than usual.Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandletlive
First :Fe: dominants tell INTp's to open up and show their emotions. And when the INTp does :Fi: dominants tell that INTp is "impulsive and aggressive". Damned if you do, damned if you don't :D
When I get angry it's almost always because the other person insists on being stupid. "Stubborn and stupid" is like the worst crime I can imagine :)
Sorry for the topic diversion, but I never understood this kind of "love"? Being demanding for improving?Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandletlive
Yes, if you love someone don't you want to help them improve themselves? at least thats where the :Ni: & :Te: come into play....Quote:
Originally Posted by FDG
I think INTps are fun the way they are. Occasionally they can become a bit too grumpy and blunt for no real reason though. I also am often a bit worried whether I am being a bit too intrusive. I just found out that such an introverted person makes me a lot more extroverted and social. So I kind of like to hang around the INTp I talked about previously and I think the INTp generally likes that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlord
However occasionally I get the feeling that I'm initiating too much and then I backoff. I'm kind of scared of being too initiative taking. I don't perceive anything which suggests this but I just can get a bit too far I think (my own opinion). There are some people who I work with who get annoyed when I ask too much questions or generally initiate them too much during the day. Damn, I think I'm extrovert as I tend to harass people at workplace a lot, lol. I go asking them a lot of questions and some of them just tell me to "go fucking use the Google". But the INTp I was talking about has at least so far been really responsive to my questions and it often leads to longer constructive discussions where our "functional flow" seems to work ok and where at least I tend to get a lot of useful input.
Now this whole thing may sound funny as I have long claimed to be INTp myself, heh. I am "INTp-like" in the sense that I can be pretty silent and socially awkward in many situations especially among strangers and also because I have a lot of problems closing the psychological distance before I learn to trust people. I am also quite skeptical, critical and perfectionistic often. However when I'm in a good mood and start to know the people better I'm become lot more active and quite initiative taking. It doesn't seem like INTps do that. They are always INTps.
Yes. I always teach women how to change car tires instead of changing tires for them. This way they can improve their skills!Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandletlive
But to ILIs and all who know about ILIs: Do ILIs get annoyed if someone gives them too much attention or can they take it all and like it? I guess this depends on the kind of attention but in general. DO they always clearly show when they have "had enough" or do they just silently think "he is being too intrusive and initiative taking...I hate him...".
*hug*Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
you're right, definitely depends on the kind of attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by XoX
i'm not sure about other ILIs, but i am not really passive aggressive. if someone's being intrusive, i leave. if someone hugs me and i don't want to be hugged, i recoil, even though i try to remember not to (as it seems to give a general impression of being disgusted with someone when it may just be that my skin is hot or i just hugged my grandma five minutes ago). i will not make a spectacle of myself if i can help it, so generally will go along with some degree of attention if it makes sense given what they know about me. for example, if person A only knew me in the context of class where i only wore sweats, and one day sees me at a wedding, she would be apt to compliment my dress/appearance because it is so different.
perhaps the only acceptable kind of attention is the kind that ultimately amplifies something or someone else. i don't mind being propped up on occasion to temporarily shed light on something greater if i am relevant to that something, but i can't stay in the spotlight for too long. it's draining to feel that eyes are on you all the time. sometimes i hate compliments because they snowball. i don't think i'd mind succinct compliments on occasion, but people are over the top. and i will never understand why people get so upset when people don't like their food, clothes, etc. my mom tends to apologize for bad fruit, tv dinners that come out wrong, some wool shirt making me itchy. what a waste. feel bad for what you actually had a part in ruining and, for the rest, just nod your head.
i think that specific compliments are most often more comfortably received than vague, sprawling ones. if you like something particular about my dress, you don't have to like me too. legitimate compliments shouldn't have to progress to the point of being sap. why should an interest in a dress engender interest in the person wearing it? we are used to this concept of telling people they look good for what they wear, or that they seem "so much happier /healthier now" by a noticeable weight loss or a new fake tan. my point is that it means nothing to me. compliment my dress and if you run into the designer one day, worship him. do not assume that because i am wearing a fabulous dress i want to be called fabulous.
if you compliment my work, i can see why you compliment me too, but sometimes it's unnecessary. compliment my work and put it to use. if i see that my work is not wasted, i will automatically assume that it was appreciated. don't forget i created it, but don't dwell on it. there are bound to be mistakes. if you really want to give me attention, make sure you know me well enough. several times, i have lashed out at my mother for "innocently" talking about me to her friends. inevitably, they start praising me for things so irrelevant to the real progression in my life. for example, tell a person who hates music yet plays an instrument well, that you can see their hidden passion for music. when the direction of my life is so completely different from what is being reported / praised as the obvious direction, i can't help but think supporting each other is nothing more than a ritual. say no to empty praise.
I'm having some problems formulating what kind of attention I give...I have to try later...Quote:
Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
Anyways I never compliment anyone so no worries about that :) If I do it has to be a very extraordinary situation and I have to be in a very extra ordinary mood. I'm more likely to tease about something than to compliment about something. I could make a joke out of a compliment though. Like I kind of want to compliment but my body just don't let me so I make a rather personal teaser-joke which certain people correctly understand as compliment but many don't, heh. My compliments are very often indirect. I don't usually want people to compliment me either. It makes the atmosphere too formal somehow.
I don't recall ever hugging anyone really (unless they initiate it of course). Instead I more likely slap or push or bite people if I want to show physical attention (lol). Hard to do that with strangers though. I have some problems showing too "soft" physical attention. It also kind of bores me.
But generally my interaction style is rather direct and very informal and I leave all kinds of compliments and hugs and introductions and that kind of things out of the picture. I usually just pick a target and jump to whatever topic is on my mind. At workplace I often have questions in my mind and I usually know a right person who can answer them. So I just go there and ask them (unless I have a shy day). Some people like it, many people think I should not bother them with so many questions as they don't want to act as my personal answering machine. ILIs tend to like it when they can show their knowledge unless they are in the middle of something very important.
The thing is that after I have picked a proper target for my attention I tend to want to "over initiate" them and I have to be careful and watch when they start to get bored. I think a rather introverted person who is not too "schizoid" but instead wants and can take a lot of attention could fit me ok in functional sense. Then again sometimes I distance myself from other people for quite a long time to do my stuff so someone who is too needy wouldn't fit me well. I do have periods of rather introverted behavior followed by more extroverted behavior. I really type myself differently depending on my mood . Urgh. This week I have been extremely active. And I still am, heh.
Umm...I forgot what was the original point of this message.
it depends on the attention. if it's a pretty girl, sure i'll like that. but all the while i will try to figure out their angle. not many talk to me, and when they do, it's usually because they want something. so while they are talking i'm analyzing.Quote:
Originally Posted by XoX
overall it's very rare for someone to engage in dialog. most people will only talk to you if you insert a compliment in their direction. from there they launch into meaningless blather about the said object that you pointed out them. it's one of the reasons i don't compliment - i'll do it if i want a discussion. and like wise if someone compliments me, they usually want something, so the words are totally meaningless.
usually you'll know if i had enough when i space off or just simply end the conversation. a "well anyway..." or something like that usually stops it, as i walk away.