LII-EIE semi-duality relations (ENFj & INTj)

Well I've been with my ENFj for about a week.... Ah the absence of duality is EVERYWHERE. The world seems to be transiting into one long tunnel of activity which my significant predetermines for me via her :Ni:. I feel like I'm faced with one line straight ahead not of my own making....

She's not very playful.... If I do something spontaneous she asks "WHAT?", as though "what's the point?"

She's cuddly, but very procedural about it. It's as though she has subroutines for everything. If you try to do something she doesn't have subroutines for, then she gets confused.

Moreover, these subroutines are pure :Fe:. It's as though she must do everything according to social sanction. Anything suggested that is less so sactioned, or ambiguiously sanctioned, makes her uncomfortable.

The weak :Si: shows in her cooking. Everything she fixes is either too light on taste or too heavy on it. This was especially evident when she took me to a picnic at her uncle's house. Her uncle was an ESFj and the difference in cooking quality was AMAZING....

That's really all the complaints I have. The :Fe: is tender, and the only reason she's so conforming is her youth. She doesn't yet know who she is....

Besides that, any advice?

Oh, and she spoils every movie we watch that she has already seen. So easy to see how an ISTj would love an ENFj partner.

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Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

Oh, and she spoils every movie we watch that she has already seen.

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What do you mean?

Heh, classic Ni-Extrovert move...

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Originally Posted by thehotelambush

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Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

Oh, and she spoils every movie we watch that she has already seen.

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What do you mean?

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She tells me what is going to happen. Again, and again, and again AS WE WATCH THE MOVIE. I finally had to tell her to shush. >_<

I actually think of it mostly as an ENTx thing, but it wouldn't suprise me if an EIE did it.

EIE and LSI were meant for each other, that is for sure.

You post, along with many other things, furthers my appreciation for ESEs. Once I find one I like, she will not have a chance of escaping.

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Originally Posted by UDP III

Once I find one I like, she will not have a chance of escaping.

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:shock:;

oh come on. he keeps his dungeon clean and rotates an asortment of high quality books.

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Originally Posted by Gilly

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Originally Posted by UDP III

Once I find one I like, she will not have a chance of escaping.

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:shock:;

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You think I am joking?

.

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Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

Well I've been with my ENFj for about a week....
[list of complaints]

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I can tell this relationship is going to last a looong time.

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Originally Posted by Elro

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Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

Well I've been with my ENFj for about a week....
[list of complaints]

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I can tell this relationship is going to last a looong time.

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lol, no shit. :lol:

You've been dating her one week, and you consider her to be your girlfriend, and you're complaining about this plethora of movies she's spoiled - how many movies have you seen in one week? Is that all you do with her? Maybe she'd rather have a date where you can talk. If I were always taken on movies for dates I'd go crazy trying to be quiet all that time.

Shoo off delta Fi police. This is the alpha quadra board. :P

Be easy on the guy. He probably started the thread just to show off he finally managed to convince a girl to go out.

The crowd has officially turned... run, buddy, run!

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Originally Posted by force my hand

The crowd has officially turned... run, buddy, run!

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:lol:

*hugs tcaudilllg*

You think too much, dear.

k.. seems like I've been attracting ENFjs lately. But I can see the problems a mile away..

just curious. I think a semi dual relation is sustainable. But wanted to ask ENFjs about their experiences with INTjs and how they experience frustrations with them. I know what it's like on my end.. but haven't really asked the ENFjs I know about it.

for example.. i find that Se program or Se creative types require your physical presence. Is this the same for ENFjs. Are they a "high maintenance" friend?

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Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington

k.. seems like I've been attracting ENFjs lately. But I can see the problems a mile away..

just curious. I think a semi dual relation is sustainable. But wanted to ask ENFjs about their experiences with INTjs and how they experience frustrations with them. I know what it's like on my end.. but haven't really asked the ENFjs I know about it.

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i'm too needy, not independant enough, not complex enough, hard-line enough for INTJs. While I think they can be a lot of fun and a good friend it is periodic and not at all sustained enough for me for the long haul. I say this knowing myself and seeing the qualities in ESFJs i've known well enough to see the specifics which i'm lacking. Granted I am only self actualizing on a low level, I dont know how a higher level of that on my part would improve my relations to INTJs, but I suspect it would always be the same.

lefty
enfj
4w5

A nightmare, usually. My parents are INTj and ENFj respectively and are about to divorce.

My dad (INTj) keeps complaining about Si stuff, like pressing my mom to clean the house, do the cooking, giving out money, etc. She does close to nothing for us this days.

My mom (ENFj) keeps complaining abut Ni stuff, like her disappointment on us for not supporting her in her "marvelous" and somewhat "universe shaking" motives and goals. She decided that "we just stay in the house doing nothing" (we all value Si: ENFp, INTj, ESFj, ENTp) so she invented some goals like finishing a career to give her life a "meaning" and such. But we all are too independent minded to buy into such things. Specially my dad...

So we discuss daily this days. Sometimes it can get pretty heated. The worst discussions are probably with me, as I harshly criticize her for being (in my view) pretty egoistical.

I like INTjs in general, but I barely treat them as "men". It might be different with male ENFj and female INTj.

Oh wait, I know one married couple like that. They seem very fond of each other. The ENFj has some ideas and plans sometimes and the INTj smiles and nods and quietly encourages. Seems like it's not entirely sufficient encouragement for him. Like he's also waiting for some feedback because he keeps adding ideas to the previous base idea and waiting for a reply. The INTj seems to agree with pretty much everything, so it's clear he won't get the feedback he wants. The ENFj rushes her a bit when it comes to minor thing. Like when they browse the web at the same computer, the ENFj will give "orders" of what to click. He's really just expressing his ideas and she should argue when needed, but she agrees with all the suggestions. For her, each suggestion is just like any other option that Ne would provide. She seemed annoyed that this took away her freedom of click whatever she wants, but the ENFj either didn't notice or he thought it's good for her to learn standing up for herself. It did not seem as if he was treating her gently when it comes to Se. Nope. He was still assuming that she has enough Se to take care of herself.

Sorry to hear about that, mikemex.

:) thank you Kri.. sounds like an excellent description. I just don't understand how an ISTj can not mind about taking away "freedom" for whatever she wants either, unless he just expects it and uses his or her Se to "get it back" or maybe the ISTj just doesn't see the need for other options.

I generally get along with INTj's. They are pretty cool and interesting. There is this one INTj guy who likes constantly gives me advice and is friendly, and I get along with him pretty comfortably. I know it really doesn't help but we both had this discussion about how we hate doing chores and that we need our future spouses to do that for us. Anyway everything should be fine but the thing I noticed with semi-duality is that there can be alot of fights since each partner's hidden agendas are the other partner's polR's. I think its a cool relationship and a very comfortable one as well.

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Originally Posted by Kristiina

He's really just expressing his ideas and she should argue when needed, but she agrees with all the suggestions.

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its really weird though. i feel like Ni types just get on a roll and wont stop even when I have been talking for like 10 seconds. Maybe ISTjs apply more Se when they argue.

It's cool though, i am seeing many things about enfjs in a new light!

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Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington

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Originally Posted by Kristiina

He's really just expressing his ideas and she should argue when needed, but she agrees with all the suggestions.

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its really weird though. i feel like Ni types just get on a roll and wont stop even when I have been talking for like 10 seconds. Maybe ISTjs apply more Se when they argue.

It's cool though, i am seeing many things about enfjs in a new light!

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I think Ne creatives start with the assumption that everyone is right and that every option is equally good and then they start looking for differences to exclude a few options. But Se creatives start with the assumption that there is one correct option and other options are just alternatives. They plan on going with their own option, but they consider the alternatives presented to them.

So when there's a choice to be made, the ENFj will have an alternative option and the ENFj is immidiately prepared to push through that option. "I would click that link" sounds as driven as like "Click that link!!!!". Se creatives would react by deciding that he will definitely CONSIDER clicking it. And might even click it. But Ne creatives react like this: " :o oh, I didn't realize you feel so strongly about that. Okay I'll click it then. It's just as good as any other option anyway."

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Originally Posted by Kristiina

I like INTjs in general, but I barely treat them as "men". It might be different with male ENFj and female INTj.

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yeah.. sometimes i think in romantic or sexual relationships perceiving functions rule all.

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Originally Posted by Diana

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Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington

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Originally Posted by Kristiina

I like INTjs in general, but I barely treat them as "men". It might be different with male ENFj and female INTj.

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yeah.. sometimes i think in romantic or sexual relationships perceiving functions rule all.

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What do you mean?

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Having Ne-Si or Ni-Se combination is more important than having Fe-Ti or Fi-Te combination.

* I'm pretty sure she meant that. :) In that case I would agree.

it is what i meant..

but of course understanding each other creates intimacy which can create the sexual desire. but yeah. I'd been thinking that and revisited the erotic attitudes, which are determined by the dominant perceiving function.

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Originally Posted by Kristiina

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Originally Posted by Diana

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Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington

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Originally Posted by Kristiina

I like INTjs in general, but I barely treat them as "men". It might be different with male ENFj and female INTj.

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yeah.. sometimes i think in romantic or sexual relationships perceiving functions rule all.

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What do you mean?

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Having Ne-Si or Ni-Se combination is more important than having Fe-Ti or Fi-Te combination.

* I'm pretty sure she meant that. :) In that case I would agree.

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and the theory of erotic types (=attitudes) agrees as well :)

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Originally Posted by mikemex

So we discuss daily this days. Sometimes it can get pretty heated. The worst discussions are probably with me, as I harshly criticize her for being (in my view) pretty egoistical.

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get a life and get out of your parents marriage. just because esfj benefits you doesn't mean you have the right to try to replace your mother with one. youre an asshole

This video completely represents one of the fail scenarios:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEJMvQuPa-E

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Originally Posted by myresearch

This video completely represents one of the fail scenarios:

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How so?

I had a four year relationship with an EIE; we did a lot of adventurous things together. I later found out through others that she had been deceptive and unfaithful throughout our relationship but these traits weren't related to type. Her seeming natural ability to fabricate excuses on the fly and my blindness to her behaviour until I actually stumbled on her with someone were likely both type-related characteristics. The original post seems mostly about personal baggage not type and it was baggage that killed my relationship because the cognitive pairing worked quite well.

a.k.a. I/O

an example. they are in a marriage or alike for several years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GolhWQR1eas
he - LII, she - EIE
he mistakes in own type as LSI, so thinks them as duals. this points, he likes the relations enough to suppose they can't be better

Semiduality is a complementation for most important - base function. While 2nd is strong and has different valued variant what can annoy, but not critically. The more problem is a lack of support for one of weak functions.
When it's both S types - they make comfortable and physically not bad place to live, but may miss opportunities for better life for them and people near them, have more doubts in a future, make more mistakes with understanding of situations and people. S types a little of "dumbs" :) where they deal with not evident and not well-known.
When it's both N types - they may have interesting ideas and good plans which will never be realised on practice good enough to have a good use from them, may miss physical practicality and have worse living conditions in physical sense (for example, to get more problems with health than could).
Where S types look too much on the ground, N types look too much on the sky - what makes the ways of both more risky and having more problems. The duality reduces this accentuation for all weak functional regions.

My parrents were semiduals, mother's sister was with a semidual, grandfather and grandmother by father side could be too. I saw this IR pairs. Not bad ones, tend to be stable. With an activation IR I think them as acceptable for marriages, if you want to be good friends there.
2 of 3 cases of my significant feelings were to semiduals. Though, relations were accidentally broken in beginning stage much by external reasons and by my bad F to deal with people (redundant anger, for example).

In case a pair is formed with serious intentions, even when such people break - they should notice that keep much of attraction to each other and that to find a comparable one is not easy. So pairs should be stable (incl. when problems appear) and with a tendency to restore relations if those were broken (if other stable pair was not found).

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Originally Posted by tcaudilllg

The weak :Si: shows in her cooking. Everything she fixes is either too light on taste or too heavy on it.

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I know exactly how it is haha

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Besides that, any advice?

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Try not to get swayed by the activating Se, mimic it if you have to


Edit: this post is from 2007, my bad.

Happy to report Tcaud and I are still friends :)

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Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman

How so?

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Long story short, I can't deal with excessive mirroring. I know that we all do it and F types are more prone to it and I appreciate it. However, when someone is nothing but a mirror, I get a feeling of being dupped.

This is not a problematic for all EIEs that I encountered but I have seen in some.

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Originally Posted by Sol

an example. they are in a marriage or alike for several years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GolhWQR1eas
he - LII, she - EIE
he mistakes in own type as LSI, so thinks them as duals. this points, he likes the relations enough to suppose they can't be better

Semiduality is a complementation for most important - base function. While 2nd is strong and has different valued variant what can annoy, but not critically. The more problem is a lack of support for one of weak functions.
When it's both S types - they make comfortable and physically not bad place to live, but may miss opportunities for better life for them and people near them, have more doubts in a future, make more mistakes with understanding of situations and people. S types a little of "dumbs" :) where they deal with not evident and not well-known.
When it's both N types - they may have interesting ideas and good plans which will never be realised on practice good enough to have a good use from them, may miss physical practicality and have worse living conditions in physical sense (for example, to get more problems with health than could).
Where S types look too much on the ground, N types look too much on the sky - what makes the ways of both more risky and having more problems. The duality reduces this accentuation for all weak functional regions.

My parrents were semiduals, mother's sister was with a semidual, grandfather and grandmother by father side could be too. I saw this IR pairs. Not bad ones, tend to be stable. With an activation IR I think them as acceptable for marriages, if you want to be good friends there.
2 of 3 cases of my significant feelings were to semiduals. Though, relations were accidentally broken in beginning stage much by external reasons and by my bad F to deal with people (redundant anger, for example).

In case a pair is formed with serious intentions, even when such people break - they should notice that keep much of attraction to each other and that to find a comparable one is not easy. So pairs should be stable (incl. when problems appear) and with a tendency to restore relations if those were broken (if other stable pair was not found).

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Wow sol finally you got someone’s type correct. Hallelujah.

I think these relations can work really well. The only problem I can see with this is that EIEs are extremely indecisive and need the rigid stability that LSIs give them.

I imagine the LII would wish for a partner who helps out with Si and the EIE will not be helpful in that lol.

Edit: I have seen multiple people talk about EIEs not being faithful, while this is a horrible thing to do to someone and not usually type related, it could have something to do with what I said above.

I work with a female LII at another company. She’s smart and sexy as hell, and we’ve known each other long enough to have considered dating and decided against it, but we still respect and admire each other.

Years ago, we both worked at an aerospace company. Her boss was an EIE who was charming one minute and a complete asshole the next. He actually hired her, based on her excellent presentation, and she eventually gave him a book, saying “See what you made me read?” The book’s title was How to Work With Difficult People.
He eventually got fired (not for the first or last time), and she went on to become the mainstay of the aerospace company.

Last year, a contact at a third company told me that someone was looking for help with designing a medical product, and I should call them. I did, and it turned out to be the EIE guy, still hustling, still trying.

The EIE and I got along well, and I told him that my company was still working with the aerospace firm, and the LII was still working there. He perked up and said he was coming to my city for a visit, and maybe he could have lunch with the two of us, on separate days.
I called the LII and she remembered him fondly, but with reservations. Nevertheless, they had lunch together.

The EIE is married to a woman with serious health problems. The LII is married to an introvert who doesn’t like to work.
Apparently, their lunch meeting went very well, even though I warned her that they were semi-Duals. He might look perfect in public, but he was half me in private. The half that she didn’t want to live with.

She thought about that and said, “I hear you, but every fiber in my being….” And then she laughed.

This girl has cheating on her mind.