anndelise
escaping

Ann

Given you say this: "I'm sometimes at odds with Fi subtypes due to the difference in main focus of Ne vs Fi," I'm actually curious how your experience with ILEs contrasts. For example, how do you square up with Ne-ILEs vs Fi-IEE?

And really I'm more asking how much you think the way you think is similar/different, not necessarily some kind of intertype relation thing.

Yeah, I thought so. This is very consistent with how your description of Ti-polr sounded -- it sounded like it was coming from someone who is predominantly an irrational type, rather than from someone with strong Fi devaluing Ti. I wanted to see if the hunch is right!

I was just curious if you see yourself as the Ne or Fi subtype of IEE! (That is a flexible question, given I don't adhere to any particular version of those systems, the only common thing is one is more focused on Ne and the other on Fi)

I love watching "tiny house nation" I lived in a studio once that had 350square feet on one floor. I would suggest not having the sleeping area in a loft with your painful back it may not work out well to climb stairs every day.

Thank you Ann. It has been very stressful and certainly contributed to my depression but it's better now and my family is learning to cope better too. How has your health been. From what I recall you were having back pain (?)

Hi Ann, how are you?

That's right; I use "aversion" instead of anxiety, not because Naranjo uses it, but because it actually makes a lot of sense in and of itself - aversion simply means there is something foreign to you. When there is something foreign, what can you do? You can try to make it less foreign. That is the innate response inherent to the very idea of foreignness. How do you render something foreign to you less foreign? Mind constructs - you understand it. At the extreme, you withdraw further and further into your own self, until you enter avarice, which is at the crossroads between fearing the outside and seeking the self-love of the image triad. I think 5w6 is more conscious that "things must be understood or else!" versus 5w4 almost is cut off from the outside totally and tends towards essentially self-satisfaction through cerebral activity.

With E8, it is not acknowledging the feeling of foreignness directly but indirectly feels it - it attempts to close the gap between the self and all foreign entities by devoting its life to force and lust. This also explains why they have troubles acknowledging vulnerable emotions.

Having read many different enneagram sites, this is the stuff I feel to be the core of it.

The big difference between instinct and mind is simply that instinctual responses are spontaneous responses stemming from our innate and most basic drives to seek satisfaction. Mind types often struggle more with how you should respond to things - the reason is the more you view a situation as foreign, the more you are uncertain if your response to it could possibly meet it. Philosophically this is not knowing the position of the human being in a vast reality.

Oh and E7 also is at crossroads, so where they acknowledge foreignness, they might view it as delectable, hence why gluttony gets the reputation for wanting to try some of everything. They do not refuse to acknowledge it, instead they acknowledge and try to rationalize it to their advantage, as a source of stimulation. They rationalize it as a way to satiate their still somewhat conscious instinctual side.

My viewpoint is actually quite simple in a way - I want to reverse the direction people see the types. The 891 are not types, but rather subtypes of being fixated in the instinctual center if you will. So I want to begin at instinct/thinking/feeling, and then look at the individual types as blends of those ones. As you move from instincts to feeling, the increasing question is whether the ego of the individual is entitled to an experience of worth (you see this at E1 with the instinctual irritation and resentment at nonperfection, and more so in the subsequent 2/3/4). The center type seems to simply address the question of its triad most directly. For instance, where the 8 may intensify its instincts, the 9 remains inertial (the difference between applying force and being at rest).