Conversation Between Tallmo and Bertrand

7 Visitor Messages

  1. yes I think of it like a target or bullseye its probably vision related, where its like the focus is inexorably lead to one point. with the cross all paths lead to the center, the point of convergence, and I think it naturally draws our attention to it... perhaps evolutionary instinct at bottom, a symbol of what it takes to survive "pay attention".. in man and his symbols they note that the cross changed where the horizontal line is lifted above center which they say was a shift in the collective unconscious, a development of the symbol itself. jung says something to the effect though that its off balance but symbolizes the attempt to elevate jesus above satan but that enantiodromia requires eventually a counterforce will result, perhaps that is the nihilism we suffer from today
  2. Yes, it's a great end-of-the-road situation that has to be reached. The question is, why a cross, and not some other symbol. I've been thinking about the cross for the past days, and I see it as a "locked" figure. Like an end point. Or a "Stop" sign. I think that this "limiting", "definite", "locked" feeling about the cross is the reason why it can symbolize transformation. It is like a closed gate, so that way it indirectly points to what's beyond. "When you can't get any further, a change has to happen". Like a coordinate system, when you get to the zero in the middle, you can't get any further. I read somewhere that in the old days crossroads were considered dangerous places, where ghosts liked to be. And there is really something fascinating about crossroads. 4 roads going outward into the world from one single point. At that point you are stuck, because you are standing at the absolute center. There is also a feeling of a "split". So it creates a tension that activates the psyche. So the belief in ghosts at crossroads can actually be well-founded. I like to think that the "locked" geometry of the cross symbolizes the death and end point necessary for individuation = the activation of the psyche. On the other hand, this might be biased, because we are so used to see crosses in grave yards.
  3. Jung sort of talks about that when he says in certain situations people are overcome by adversity and regress to a prior stage, which could be like getting to the cross scenario and not being up for it. like the businessman who loses once and never takes another chance superficially he survived but died an inner death, whereas sometimes you have to die to live; one undergoes a transformation so to speak, or rebirth which would be like the resurrection, so theres this paradoxical "loss" that gives rise to something greater. so what it means to overcome the cross becomes more than mundane "continued life" which in some sense just means death in a continued banal existence vs death which involves a transformation. so this death = bad and life = good thing becomes a paradox because failing to overcome the resistance in some sense means giving in or passing through it, which makes me think of life in general when you meet something annoying and difficult a lot of times the trick is to stop fighting it and let it in and then deal with it as it is rather than a kind of shrinking away from it
  4. I think thats really good, I never thought of it quite like that but it makes sense to me... I think the idea of it being like point where transcendence meets resistance and it either overcomes it and ascends or fails and dies is very interesting
  5. I was just looking for some ideas. For some reason I've wanted to figure out more about it. I have some ideas, linked to the Christian story: If the vertical pole is the human-God connection (low-high), then the horisontal pole could be the circumstances that cut off this connection, basically our earthly human condition, with all its restrictions. Together these form the great opposition that humans are torn between (being nailed to the cross). But this is also the condition for transformation (for those who actually reach it). Also a symbol for individuation. In astrology there is an aspect called the cross when four planets form a cross in the sky and I just read it's meaning is something like a great opposition that will either save or kill you. "All or nothing mentality". I think that's pretty neat. But yeah something like fate, opposition, an impossible problem, split/wholeness. But I think my own interpretation is maybe a little too specific. If we are talking about real symbols then it's meaning could be more hard to get at.
  6. I havent studied it in depth but Ive acumulated some ideas about it, but I'm not sure what you're looking for so its hard for me to answer...

    I think in general its a product of the collective unconscious like all symbols and it has to do with coordinates and a 4 way split, which is interesting because Christianity reduced the number of Gods to 3 via the trinity but maintained the cross as a symbol.. I think quadra are reminiscent of a 4 god system, you could say they're the psychologically unifying force that binds people and dictates their fate in a Godlike manner, and is the source of their values...
  7. Hi, I wanted to ask you one thing. Recently I have been interested in the symbolism of the cross. Do you know anything about it?
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