• Alpha Quadra: The Complex of Closed Mouth by Stratiyevskaya

    Alpha Quadra: The Complex of Closed Mouth
    By Vera Stratiyevskaya


    See also:
    Article Discussion and Comments
    Wikisocion - Alpha Quadra
    Wikisocion - Four Quadra
    Original blog entry



    Alpha - the quadral complex of "closed [shut] mouth", as any quadral complex, originates from a set of four aspects dominant in this quadra - evolutionary intuition of potentials (+Ne), evolutionary sensing of sensations (+Si), involutionary ethics of emotions (-Fe), and involutionary logic of relations (-Ti), which in turn form three dominant quadral traits.

    1. "Democratic" trait (rational aspects are involutionary, with a minus sign; irrational aspects are evolutionary, with a plus sign: -Fe, -Ti, +Ne, +Si)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to interact with others as an equal 2) to have equal rights and opportunities 3) to fight and contend for equal rights and opportunities 4) to freely express on any topic 5) to freely defend their point of view 6) to strive to defend their rights and opportunities by any means.

    2. "Judicious" trait (predominance of evolutionary irrational aspects +Ne +Si)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to freely develop their capabilities, possibilities, and talents 2) to freely express on any topic and demand respect for one's opinions, irrespective of whether or not one is knowledgeable of the topic ("democratic" trait allows a person to dismiss the opinion of experts or at least interpret it by different standards and at his own discretion).

    3. "Subjectivist" trait (predominance of involutionary rational aspects -Ti -Fe)
    In accordance with this trait, every person has the right 1) to subjective analysis of events, opinions, and actions 2) to find the culpable and displace them from the system, from the society, while contending the displacement of the innocent 3) to fight for one's own place within the system, to have the right to defend one's position 4) to push others out of the system and fight those who push out others, defending one's own right to not become displaced.

    1. Fears and concerns arising from Alpha quadral complex.

    From the combination of the properties of all of predominating traits listed above, in Alpha Quadra there arises a fierce competition of views and opinions. Discussions, debates, arguments – these are the most wide-spread and most natural forms of approaching important issues here. Each person considers it to be their duty (a natural and legal right) to speak freely on any subject or issue, not limiting themselves to the means of expression in lexicon and by time.

    Each person feels the right to suppress the opinion of his or her opponents by his own arguments, forcing them out of the dispute, out of the audience, out of the topic, and out of the system. (Up to demands and exclamations: "Get out! There is no place here for the likes of you! First, learn to behave yourself properly and to hear out your opposition.") While hearing out one's opposition, since no one here curbs themselves by time considerations, in Alpha quadra is also not liked:

    - out of fear that they themselves won't have the time to speak and direct the discussion into a convenient direction;

    - out of fear of losing the initiative in a discussion, and that their opinions will be suppressed, their views – rejected;

    - in nervous anticipation that they might forget the most important and powerful argument that can easily push out their opponent and support their own opinion (their own view, plan, decision, authority, goals, objectives, and so on);

    - due to being afraid of being unheard or misunderstood by the audience, thus all start to talk at once, in discord: start suppressing the current speaker with shouts from the audience, by rushing him, by demands to step down and make way for the next speaker, by distorting his statements without listening to what he's saying, by mocking, jeering, banging fists on the table (here, everything is very "democratic") - thereby drawing the time and attention toward themselves and away from the current speaker. May also say something crude, that is offending. May simply cover up his mouth or microphone by their hand, silencing him in order to calmly talk themselves. And all of these actions come from heightened worries and feelings of anxiety and fear about the inability to express oneself freely and in full. Not all those who wish to speak will be heard out – there's not enough time and attention for all.

    Alpha Quadra hates verbal attacks and censure that undermines their ability to get in a word. This fear that they experience – the fear of inability to speak freely, to discuss one's own topic, to defend one's own point of view – in this essay we will conventionally call the COMPLEX OF CLOSED MOUTH.

    Alpha Quadra is not distinguished by an ability to keep secrets. Here, any restrictions to disclosure are received with some discomfort. (Especially talkative in this regard is TIM ESE, Hugo: he doesn't make a secret of other people's secrets, but at the same time fears that his own confessions might be made public. Therefore, in a confidential private conversation, the ESE makes his companions promise not to reveal what he or she has told them.)

    Secretive people are not liked in the Alpha Quadra. They are not trusted, even a little bit feared – who knows what they have in their mind! (This is one root of their conflict with introverted negativists of Gamma Quadra - ESI and ILI - who are inclined to hide and not voice their private thoughts and feelings.) Another matter are those who are always overflowing with an abundance of news, sensational revelations, their own and other people's secrets – it is always interesting to talk with them and to spend time in their company.

    Talkativeness is a characteristic feature of Alpha Quadra. Debates, conversations, discussions – these are the favorite pastime here. Only try to interfere with them speaking, and you will hear: "Wait, let me talk to him – can't you see that I'm talking?!" At the same time, blocking the conversation, interrupting and interfering with other's talking doesn't require much effort from them, especially if to them the topic is interesting and relevant.

    The invitation to a conversation can be extended to and shared by all. Hence the characteristic habit of many Alpha types to find conversation partners everywhere, initiating discussions over important issues in crowded public places and talking with everyone present almost on any topic, trying to get their views across to their listeners, trying to maximally engage and involve the public by the conversation, becoming drawn into debates and pulling others into lively discussions.

    The search for a new topic, a new and interesting idea, is always relevant in Alpha Quadra. First and foremost this is true of Alpha logical types: ILE Don Quixote, and LII Robespierre: if only a small bit of a new thought is born, they immediately try developing into a new theory and publishing it. The requirement to bring every new idea up to the discussion here is observed unfailingly. Any deviation from this canon is considered to be a violation of scientific ethics: a new idea shouldn't stagnate, nor be hidden from the intellectual community – it must be made available to the society, it has to be discussed.

    Alpha Quadra types believe that openness and wide accessibility of information is their main democratic achievement. The level of democratization of a society here is determined not by the number of political parties (although here there may be quite a few!), but by openness and availability of conversations of any topic. ("Why belong to this party, if I cannot openly talk about it at every corner?!").

    In Alpha Quadra, all value the opportunities to express themselves and to defend their views. Therefore, any divergence of opinions here get transformed into a real battle, where, with all kinds of efforts and tactics, by all truths and lies, one tries to assert their views and to attract the most attention. Once a person starts to talk, he or she attempts to capture the maximum amount of time while not allowing others to speak. If he succeeds, he may feel himself a winner (he's in the spotlight!), but in others this inability to speak and express their point of view evokes an acute fear of not getting heard – of being pushed out of the discussions and out of the process of debating an important and pertinent topic.

    Where does it come from? According to anthropologists, the vocal apparatus of human beings began to develop intensively 70 thousand years ago. It was then that the last mutation of the sphenoid bone at the base of the skull occurred, completing the formation of the vocal apparatus. Active verbal interaction has led to intensive informational interchange, and a rapid and intensive formation of TIMs. Consequently, there was an evolutionary leap in the development of human society, which has become much more coordinated in taking joint actions, more organized, and more prosperous.

    In the process of exchanging views, intelligence developed just as intensively, as did social consciousness and social order. New topics for discussion have appeared. Human species finally got the chance to talk to our contentment. (None wanted to sink back into silence.) Each felt himself a trailblazer, a pioneer in the fields of formation of new languages and new laws. (The claim that in the capacity for creative thought man may be equal to God was conceived in ancient times, among the freedom loving and intellectually emancipated logical-intuitive types of Alpha Quadra. The propensity for word-creation, for formation and setting of new principles, rules, and laws, for creation one's own languages and codes - still shows in them.) In the context of fierce competition of opinions, new leaders and elders appeared, who, unlike the previous ones, were not only strong and courageous, but also wise, able to think straight and to accurately express their thoughts, and capable of establishing reasonable and just order within the community.

    In Alpha Quadra there is a constant very fierce and lively exchange of views. Verbal expression, an opportunity to speak, to communicate – here is of the highest value: problems get resolved in the process of discussion.

    Due to the combination of quadral traits, the initiating evolutionary Alpha Quadra is the "most talkative" quadra in Socion. It's members, "Democratic-subjectivists" have the right to talk how they can, about anything they wish, and however much they wish it. In connection to this, a problem arises of mutually exclusive yet equal rights and opportunities for all members of the community and the need to link and coordinate them with each other so that no one is hurt or offended. To resolve these problems, just laws and regulations are developed in the community, the concept of norms is introduced, democratic forms of debate are invented. Regulations are set concerning speeches and presentations and the topics to be discussed. The position of a regulator is introduced – the "Chairman of the Meeting". Disciplined forms of managing discussions are implemented, for example, the phrase "the permission to speak" (this expression has remained with us from the ancient Semitic languages), and notions such as the "the right to word" and "the right to voice". And all this was done to ensure that everyone's opinion is heard, so that no one feels deprived of the opportunity to speak. All of such administrative and organizational methods and measures in the ancient and democratic community of Alpha Quadra worked to diminish and mute the complex of "closed mouth".

    Alpha Quadra is afraid:
    - to find themselves in social and information isolation;
    - to lose trust and respect (and ear) of other people;
    - to miss opportunities to establish understanding with others;
    - to miss opportunities to defend one's rightness, to justify oneself, to ward off suspicions;
    - of giving any reasons for condemnation,
    - of being forced out of the system, to be left without social and moral support.

    The knowledge that an important question will be resolved in absence of oneself, and perhaps not to one's benefit or favor, in Alpha Quadra provokes anxiety and fear. This anxious fear is compounded by intensive competition of alternative, mutually contradictory statements and opinions, that in their rapid stream drown out all of individual's attempts to defend himself, his reputation, his innocence, or authority. As a result, a feeling of panic arises, similar to the one experienced by people trying to "scream and shout to finally get heard by others" and yet not hearing a response, trying to find understanding with others and not finding it, trying to call for help and unable to do so for reasons beyond one's control – as if all of a sudden the person has lost his voice and is now sitting with his hands tied, with this mouth shut (or sealed with tape). And it's not as alarming and frightening that his hands are tied, as that his mouth is shut such that he cannot yell and shout to draw the attention and the aid of others, and to obtain justice, nor prove his case or defend his innocence, neither to consult or confer, or protect his honor and dignity, or to appeal to the common sense, conscience, and compassion of others – none of this can be done with a closed, clamped mouth, and this feeling in itself is what scares the Alpha Quadra members the most, plunges them into shock, into stupor, leads them to despair.

    To shout to draw the attention of others is a favorite method in Alpha Quadra – it's simple, ingenuous, yet effective way of drawing public attention, and with its help getting one's own way.

    An example:

    A five year old boy (TIM ILE, Don Quixote) was for the first time taken to barber's. (Prior to this, his hair was cut at home by his mother or grandmother; but now it was necessary for him to get a professional haircut). As soon as he was seated in a chair and wrapped with a napkin, he felt himself a prisoner, and when he saw an unfamiliar person with huge, long scissors approaching his head, he started screaming and shouting as loudly as he possibly could - such that it could be heard on the street: "Help! Help! Hurry! Over here! Help! They are killing a child in here!" The barber got scared and immediately put him out on the street along with his mother. He was taken to another barber shop, and there the same scenario repeated. To the third - the same. Desperate, the mother brought the child back home and cut his hair herself. It wasn't soon that he started going to barber shops.

    2. The rights and possibilities in the Alpha Quadra.

    As long as "judicious" Alpha Quadra has their mouth open, they are not afraid of anything: they will always find a way out of the situation, or at least call on the attention of the society and try to prevail over their tormentors with their help. Another thing is when their mouth is shut. The repsonse: "Shut up! Close your mouth!" – is one of the most offensive and humiliating to hear in Alpha Quadra. Especially when a person has something to say, but no opportunity to say it – which in itself is already offending, hurtful, and insulting, and, most importantly, dangerous in the "subjectivist" and "democratic" community of Alpha Quadra, where:

    - the one who has greater chances of defending oneself is the one who shouts louder - the prevalence of aspect of the ethics of emotions (-Fe) - or most convincingly proves his rights and rightness - the prevalence of aspect of the logic of relations (-Ti);
    - all are divided into "us" and "them" (subjectivists);
    - where everyone is trying to present themselves as "familiars", as "one of ours", and push out the "foreigners";
    - where there's not enough space in the system;
    - where as a punishment one can be driven out of the community, deprived of the right to speak and to vote - thus expelled from the number of free and equal citizens, and transfered to the position of an outcast, a pariah, or a slave.

    Therefore, for Alpha Quadra it is important to defend their honor before the public and in public places, or in the press, to set up some kind of "loud" scandal, in which they are able to attract the greatest number of witnesses and sympathizers.

    For example, ILE Don Quixote often quarrels with his "conflictor" or "supervisor" in the most crowded places – and arranges for something like a "public execution", repudiating them with words in presence of strangers. For as long as there are other people near by, he's not scared. Subjectively believing he can count on their support and understanding, the ILE exaggeratedly and loudly defies his "offender", trying to draw the attention of others and make them his allies. If one tries to rein him in, to tell him: "Shut up! Stop it! How are you behaving! You should be ashamed before people!", the ILE, feeling himself in an awkward position (no longer a winner in the eyes of onlookers), immediately explodes and pounces on his "offender" with fists (in a final attempt to take revenge).

    To tell to an angered member of the Alpha Quadra to "shut up" – is same as pouring oil into the fire. Another matter is to accuse him of unfair distribution of rights and opportunities. Especially acute response such accusations evoke in the LII, Robespierre, for whom the leading "program" aspect of logic of relations (-Ti) does not allow to permit injustice in relation to someone else. To tell the LII Robespierre (next door neighbor, who protests against your singing at home): "You want me to live with my mouth shut?!" – as the LII neighbor will immediately feel embarrassed: "No, shudder to think that I'm forcing you to live with your mouth closed! I'm not asking for this - I'm simply requesting that you limit your musical training to morning hours."

    Establishing a fair distribution of rights and opportunities – "the right to vote", "the right to a word", "the right" or "obligation" "to remain silent" – these are the prerogative of LII Robespierre on the aspect of logic of fair relations – his "program" function (-Ti).

    It is in "decisive" quadra that "silence is gold, word - is silver", while in "judicious" quadra every word is already worth its weight in gold. Verbal agreements are of great importance here: if someone has reconciled and agreed in words – they can be considered to be reconciled in business, especially if reconciliation was organized by LII Robespierre. Promises made ​​in LII's presence are difficult not to fulfill: he organizes everything very strictly and seriously, since on the balance of justice are the equal rights of two equally free in their opportunities citizens. The simple recognition of this fact already calms down the opponents and creates a sense of reliability, of guarantee in their relations, and of stability and order.

    As the complexity of social relations increases, exceptions to these rules arise. Verbal agreements and promises become insufficient (though the fans of catching someone on "idle talk" and old promises are still abound). Thus, amendments are made on previous agreements and arrangements. Verbal agreements and promises that were forced or made in absence of a person, in his place and without his consent, don't have any power and influence in this Quadra (the aspect of volitional sensorics is displaced (ฑSe↓)). Instead, the aspect of intuition of possibilities (+Ne↑) gets implemented in very ingenious ways: any loophole becomes used to its maximum, any opportunity to bypass or reject old commitments is set into motion.

    Any kind of trick or prank, any "evil joke" may be grounds for refusal to fulfill what was promised: "We promised - but we tricked you! It was all a joke!" (characteristic of the "joker" ESE, Hugo). If in response the person shouts, becomes indignant, loudly complains – it is still possible to change the attitude and fulfill the promise (of course, at the expense of other applicants). If he turns and go away quietly – it's his right and his problem: what was promised to him will be delivered to others. With his silence and acquiescence before bureaucratic lawlessness (unfortunately common in subjectivist quadras), he creates the conditions for even greater injustice – he creates a reserve pool of rights, privileges, and material resources to be given to others, those who loudly protested, yelled and shouted, who were stronger and fiercer in an argument, who were active in defending their rights – who can and want to fight for their rights.

    In the "subjectivist" Alpha and Beta Quadra communities there aren't enough material resources for everyone: there are always more regulators and distributors of public goods than there are manufacturers and producers of them. In Alpha Quadra, there are attempts to distribute the resources fairly (at the first stage), but later on – at the critical peak of "subjectivity" – in the hierarchical, "subjectivist", "decisive" Beta Quadra the resources and privileges are given to the strong, influential, contending members of the community, as they become the "dominants" and form the backbone of society, the elite strata of the hierarchy.

    Of course libel and slander can also be used as the basis for refusing to fulfill a promise in the "subjectivist" community of Alpha Quadra. Anyone can say about the creditor: "I'm disappointed in him. He amassed his wealth in a dishonest way, and thus I won't repay my debt to him!" It's so much easier and simpler to besmirch a person and reject your obligations before him. And no one else will defend the creditor's reputation and insist on meeting the agreement if the creditor's own mouth is closed – if he himself is like a fish, standing there mute and speechless from indignation and astonishment, as if he was stunned by the butt of a axe, unable to utter a single word in his defense. Unconscientious (or insolvent) debtor here can show some more resourcefulness and ingenuity: stun his creditor further by 2-3 just as absurd arguments. Depriving him of the faculty of speech via surprise and indignation provoked by such arguments, the insolvent debtor can further make fun of him – to recall that silence gives consent, and try to win over the majority opinion to their side. He triumphs over his opponent's embarrassment: "Yes! He is silent – because he has nothing to say for himself! If he is silent he agrees with the accusations. If he is silent, this means that he knows he's guilty! ...")

    3. The development of protective and preventive measures that mute the fears of Alpha quadral complex.

    The danger of being exposed and denounced further drives the forward momentum and offensive activities of Alpha Quadra. Beginning to speak, they won't stop until they draw the majority to their side. Even a short-term imbalance in power or pause from opposition is enough for them to claim: "You yourself have agreed with me - remember? You yourself have admitted that the truth is on my side." This is often sufficient for "judicious" quadra members to insist on their own opinions: whoever yells and shouts the loudest, whoever is most proactive in an argument – that person will have the last word, that person is correct and in the right.

    And the best way of getting the last word is to try to "knock out" the opponent during an argument – to confound, to baffle, to stun him by absurd statements and conclusions, to "whack" him by false accusations and rumors, to tangle up his thoughts, his perception and feelings, to confuse and shut down his memory – to astonish and estrange him so much that he cannot utter a single word in response, not to mention try to defend his cause, to prove his innocence or correctness, and protect his rights – it is then, when he is silent and trying to regain an understanding of what is going on, that the "judicious" quadra member takes an upper hand in a dispute: "If he's silent, it means he is guilty or wrong. If he was in the right – he would have said so, proven his rightness, defended himself!"

    Losing the faculty of speech – is the worst that can happen in Alpha Quadra. To drive a person into shock, into stupor by absurd arguments or false accusations, to make him go numb from surprise and indignation – are all common methods of contention here – as old as the world. And these were quite successful methods in the early stages of development of human society: if one wants to have the last word, make it be the most significant the most substantial one. The predominant informational aspects and psychological traits that create four successful models of dominant TIMs in this quadra enable and promote this in every possible way.

    All of Alpha intuitive types (ILE and LII) are "static" and "logical" – they won't miss out on their rights (-Ti) and opportunities (+Ne), neither will they go searching in their pockets for a word – they can present their opinions very powerfully and extremely impressively. They can, better than any other types in the socion, astonish and disorient by the absurdity and illogic of their opinions that to an onlooker will appear to be very convincing and reasonable. (One needs to become skilled in having conversations with them to learn how to catch them on the illogic.)

    The sensing types of Alpha Quadra are the emotional ethical "declaring" types SEI and ESE – firmly convinced of their own correctness and able to squeeze emotions (out of themselves) to the maximum. Anyone who tries to argue with them will go hoarse from shouting, if not deaf earlier from all the noise. (Out-shouting Alpha sensing types is only possible to the orthogonal to them – conflicting and neutralizing – Gamma types, and even then with varying success.)

    The "declaring" "sensing of sensations" aspect of Alpha Quadra (Si) – is crude, rough, grounding and base (in its extreme expressions), and works to their self-assertion in a dispute. They aren't shy in sensory and emotional expressions – for too much is at stake: the struggle for material resources, rights, and opportunities, that are all scarce – this is a struggle for life or death. The struggle for survival here is not a joke: Alpha "program" sensing type SEI Dumas (+Si / -Fe) won't allow himself or his children to perish, but will fight for survival until the end; if not for himself, then at least for the sake of the children – and will stop at nothing if he wants to overcome his opposition.

    The "obstinate", creative sensing, "program" ethical type ESE Hugo (-Fe / +Si) doesn't even need to be mentioned – having started screaming, the ESE won't stop until he overwhelms his enemy both morally and physically – he will instill fear into his opponent, break him by own determination and tenacity, and decisively defend his rights to the very end. The sensing aspect of Alpha +Si is a powerful weapon in a dispute, not to mention the overwhelming "declaring" aspect of ethics of emotions -Fe that blasts an opponent with heavy fire of the choicest expressions in the most fierce and gloomy tones.

    With the insidiously inventive aspect of intuition potential (+Ne), capable of blocking access to any proofs of innocence and vindication, and highly shifty logic of relations (-Ti), capable of juggling and stringing together the most intricate reasoning, and finding "inaccuracies" and "shortcomings" in the most rigorous and carefully balanced arguments, all of these properties work to dispel and mute the fears of the "complex of closed mouth" – they are the guarantees of personal rights and protection in Alpha Quadra in the opinion of society. The guarantee of the right, ability, and possibility for a person to fend for themselves on their own, merely on the grounds that if he doesn't want to his mouth won't be closed. And if someone wasn't able to explain and justify himself – then it means he either didn't want to or couldn't deny his guilt. From this follows that he himself is to blame: the blame is on him and it is so heavy that he couldn't even deny it.

    Thus, the subjective capabilities of a person become the objective reality (in quadra of "subjectivists"). If a person has failed to subjectively defend his opinions and his innocence, then he is to blame objectively and should receive a real punishment.

    - And what about the lawyers, advocates, and witnesses? - The reader will ask.
    - It is for this that here it is preferred to set up scandals in the presence of strangers, to have more witnesses.

    The ordering mechanisms of public relations have been historically created and developed in the evolutionary, initiating Alpha Quadra – the quadra of "subjectivist" "democrats" -– and subsequently passed to the Beta Quadra – the quadra of "decisive" "subjectivists" "aristocrats", who transform subjective opinion of a person into objective reality, moving it up to a majority vote. If the majority of people (especially reputable people) tell a person that he is wrong – this means that this is the way it is, regardless of who that person might be.

    In the authoritarian Beta Quadra society of "decisive" "subjectivist" "aristocrats", the people who make up the "unjust minority" were condemned as dissenters. Those who repented and pleaded guilty were exiled to hard labor, while the unrepentant were send to "fire" and declared hardened heretics. Even if they were very good and logical in defending their point of view, all the evidence worked against them.

    - Why?..

    - Another time – another system – other social conditions and relations – another quadra, other models of TIM, other complexes. What is accepted in one quadra does not pass in another.

    As we can see, the quadral complex – is much more that mere fear and anxieties. The quadral complex is formed by the aspects of the four dominant in the quadra TIMs – four eco-successful models that live in unison with this society and organize it according to their own views, adjust and mold it to themselves, reflecting and cultivating within it all of their priorities and preferential qualities and properties.

    Quadral complex – is also what defines and structures relations within a society, that which organizes it, sets traditions and practices, progressing the society towards a certain critical moment, and then leads it to its decline, to disintegration or extinction, causing one set of social relationships, predominant social programs and TIMs to become displaced by others.

    And how could it be otherwise? After all, all social connections – horizontal and vertical, all social relations – democratic and hierarchical, all the corresponding social programs, all the maintaining and supporting eco-successful social models and TIMs must be successively and effectively developed, replacing ones with others, in their overwhelming majority. This task is carried out by the social, interpersonal, and intertype relations, and the law of quadral succession. Not the smallest role in this is played by the quadral complexes.


    .
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Quadral Complexes and Characteristics by Stratiyevskaya (untranslated) started by silke View original post
    Comments 15 Comments
    1. Blaze's Avatar
      Blaze -
      This is great, covers many dimensions, and could be expanded by a few more. The power of sound, words, and ideas cannot be underestimated. Alpha quadra develops ideas and transmits them to Beta, who selects the ones with the best chances of mass appeal, and applies those. This golden thread of ideas encodes the activities of the entire quadra chain. In this way ideas can be more powerful than weapons, commerce, and institutions.

      The question on the table at this place and time is what is the new golden thread that needs to be articulated and discussed? Where is our species really headed if we continue as we have been? What are the most powerful ideas that will drive the change in consciousness that's required for us to successfully adapt?

      This description frames Alpha as sort of powerless and struggling for scraps of resources.....and is just a bit of a characiture of a loud mouth buffoon, as least the way it's written. Strateyevskaya does a pretty good job, especially as a gamma.....yet the Alpha description seems a bit one dimensional compared to the others. Delta for example seems to have lifted up as the pinnacle of human evolution and perhaps we could agree it is so, but age after age, delta's tragic empires rise and fall.

      At the end of the day we each are sacred souls with specific spiritual destinies.....time is only change we we are transformative containers of energy, part of the cosmos personalized and looking at itself.
    1. thehotelambush's Avatar
      thehotelambush -
      There are a lot of astute observations in this article. Yes, Alphas need to be able to freely and openly discuss whatever they feel like. It's not clear if she realizes that this is because of valuing and rather than and though...many of the theoretical explanations are shady at best. She also projects a lot of motivations that have little to do with how Alphas actually think. LIke...

      Beginning to speak, they won't stop until they draw the majority to their side.

      This is often sufficient for "judicious" quadra members to insist on their own opinions: whoever yells and shouts the loudest, whoever is most proactive in an argument – that person will have the last word, that person is correct and in the right.

      The "declaring" "sensing of sensations" aspect of Alpha Quadra (Si) – is crude, rough, grounding and base (in its extreme expressions), and works to their self-assertion in a dispute. They aren't shy in sensory and emotional expressions – for too much is at stake: the struggle for material resources, rights, and opportunities, that are all scarce – this is a struggle for life or death. The struggle for survival here is not a joke: Alpha "program" sensing type SEI Dumas (+Si / -Fe) won't allow himself or his children to perish, but will fight for survival until the end; if not for himself, then at least for the sake of the children – and will stop at nothing if he wants to overcome his opposition.
      ...Seriously?
    1. Blaze's Avatar
      Blaze -
      Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
      There are a lot of astute observations in this article. Yes, Alphas need to be able to freely and openly discuss whatever they feel like. It's not clear if she realizes that this is because of valuing and rather than and though...many of the theoretical explanations are shady at best. She also projects a lot of motivations that have little to do with how Alphas actually think. LIke...



      ...Seriously?
      agree completely. only ESE might tread into that territory and not all that likely due to their ethics. I guess as a gamma she reads Se when really if Alpha is at all forceful it is Ti related not Se related. and I still think it's one dimensional. basically all she says is that alpha has a big mouth.
    1. Jerdle's Avatar
      Jerdle -
      Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
      agree completely. only ESE might tread into that territory and not all that likely due to their ethics. I guess as a gamma she reads Se when really if Alpha is at all forceful it is Ti related not Se related. and I still think it's one dimensional. basically all she says is that alpha has a big mouth.
      She's not wrong about that, though. Alpha does have a big mouth.
      ESE and ILE might be aggressive, but even then it's not a major part of them. Basically, Alpha extratims are the shouters of the Socion. Loud, aggressive (bold ), controversial.
    1. Blaze's Avatar
      Blaze -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jerdle View Post
      She's not wrong about that, though. Alpha does have a big mouth.
      ESE and ILE might be aggressive, but even then it's not a major part of them. Basically, Alpha extratims are the shouters of the Socion. Loud, aggressive (bold ), controversial.
      Agree with the big mouth.....but that's basically all she says, therefore one dimensional and limited. Someone non-gamma should give it a try, then it might get more fleshed out, ideally collaborate with some Alphas.
    1. wasp's Avatar
      wasp -
      They're satirical representations of the negative qualities most prominent in each quadra. It's like a caricature. In a positive social setting, this is great because it means that they're comfortable communicating with each other in any which way they please, not worrying too much about their words being taken to heart, hence the light teasing. The problem lies in them carrying this same attitude over to negative social settings. They just fly off the handle (extratims, mainly) and expect that you'll forgive them for being cunts to you for potentially no reason, even if they ruin your social standing in the process, which they assume you'll jump back from just as they naturally would. All quadras are guilty of this self-centered thinking.

      I think that's where the Alpha-Gamma clash becomes most apparent. Alphas talk to talk. Gammas talk when they have something to say. If an argument breaks out between the two, Alpha types fire away until they feel better (aka "everything's out in the open") but Gamma types stay quiet, and if they do say something then they usually mean it, and where an Alpha type leaves that interaction feeling a cathartic release of sorts, Gamma types internalize the irritation they experienced during that interaction and it sticks with them for a LONG time, hence why they're prone to grudges/revenge/etc. And I don't think Alpha types are above, "public executions," (especially ILE, jaysus christ almighty). Alpha is thinking, "Just call me an idiot!!! Please!!! Let's get this over with already!!!" whereas Gamma is thinking, "You're an idiot but I'd rather you just shut up. Goodbye."

      This is probably why Alphas tend to, "love by touch, not by words", because nothing they say really means anything. Rooster Teeth podcasts are a fantastic exemplar of the Alpha quadra in action. The positive manifestation, that is.
    1. Bertrand's Avatar
      Bertrand -
      I know this is slightly off topic but can you do beta/delta in the same way you just did alpha/gamma? I really liked the way you described it
    1. wasp's Avatar
      wasp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
      I know this is slightly off topic but can you do beta/delta in the same way you just did alpha/gamma? I really liked the way you described it
      haha I can but I'd need to wait until I feel inspired or something. coming soon to a thread near you?

      [back on topic, sorry for the temp derail guise]
    1. flames's Avatar
      flames -
      Seems like the same thing for Beta-Delta to me. Beta thinks Delta is annoyingly lame because they're more modest and focused on sober and lighthearted but serious things (work, nonsensical but dry humor, emotional maturity - not a roast on betas I prefer them over deltas haha). Delta thinks Beta is obnoxiously loud and tryhard and just wants to get away from them to do their own thing. Just picture someone quietly reading a book in the library and some idiot next to them who keeps purposely pushing their buttons and then book nerd just responds with a look of annoyment and avoidance by moving somewhere else.
    1. CoViD Spurdo 007's Avatar
      CoViD Spurdo 007 -
      Alphas can be quiet even ESEs. Introverted thinking. That's freaking quiet IE static time consuming and introverted.

      Until it is time for something that sparks their interest and those topics may sound useless to gammas.



      Gamma talk is the most nonsensical. Time for this. You can do that with sign language.
    1. Pookie's Avatar
      Pookie -
      Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
      There are a lot of astute observations in this article. Yes, Alphas need to be able to freely and openly discuss whatever they feel like. It's not clear if she realizes that this is because of valuing and rather than and though...many of the theoretical explanations are shady at best. She also projects a lot of motivations that have little to do with how Alphas actually think. LIke...



      ...Seriously?
      Hnm is this saying judicious types argue with the objective of winning the most people to their side?
    1. wasp's Avatar
      wasp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Lessons View Post
      Seems like the same thing for Beta-Delta to me. Beta thinks Delta is annoyingly lame because they're more modest and focused on sober and lighthearted but serious things (work, nonsensical but dry humor, emotional maturity - not a roast on betas I prefer them over deltas haha). Delta thinks Beta is obnoxiously loud and tryhard and just wants to get away from them to do their own thing. Just picture someone quietly reading a book in the library and some idiot next to them who keeps purposely pushing their buttons and then book nerd just responds with a look of annoyment and avoidance by moving somewhere else.
      pretty much. they judge the value of a person based on contradictory criteria. concurrently, their brand of aristocracy is contradictory.



      this is obviously a simplified version of what actually happens, but apply the stick-person principle to all four quadras, specifically "rivalry" quadras (or whatever they're called). oddly enough, i think that's why duality descriptions state that people can experience a strong attraction to their conflictors in the initial stages of interaction. they're easy to spot because it's like stumbling upon a laundry machine in the jungle, whereas your duals are caught in your blindside because they fit so perfectly with the scenery that you don't even think twice about their presence, which kind of contradicts the sketch i made on paint, but i'm sure there's a logical explanation for why i think those two views are compatible? i could've sworn i was onto something
    1. CoViD Spurdo 007's Avatar
      CoViD Spurdo 007 -
      So gamma is business experience (seriously you just want something that is meaningless), delta is human experience (freaking egocentric old farts), alpha is idea experience (you need to talk those things or universe collapses), beta is yell and order experience (sit, stay, roll).
    1. Jerdle's Avatar
      Jerdle -
      Slightly more positively:
      Alpha - ideas
      Beta - society
      Gamma - production
      Delta - creativity
    1. thehotelambush's Avatar
      thehotelambush -
      Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
      Hnm is this saying judicious types argue with the objective of winning the most people to their side?
      If that's what she's saying, then I don't agree at all.