• Ne Blobs

    Ne - What is this TPE? (indirectly understood mental constructions)


    Ok, this video sux. New program, unknown editing features (not sure if the program has editing features, wtf??), bare idea for a 'script', and in serious need of help to stay focused and on task.

    [video]

    When I refer to 'triggering information in your brain', I'm talking about all those various 'blobs' of activated activity within the brain that gets translated as meaningful information. Not all of it is conscious, either. So, we get these 'blobs' about a TPE, and those represent meaningful data (information) about the TPE. In the case of Ne, we're talking about information that is primarily about some conceptualized TPE, but the information is hazy and ambiguous at best. Like a shadow. You know that story about the people thinking they know the world because they've been watching the shadows dance across the walls? Yeah, that's what N elements are like. It's rarely referencing something concrete that it can easily test the construct against, and there is little to no sensory based data. Just these...blobs...in the mind that are being manipulated and viewed, and which are then combined in some way to make a bigger blob. Yes, Ne is information about... blobs.

    With that said, do I really need to get into why Ne types use phrases such as maybe, might, could, etc? It's because they are trying to describe a blob. They can't show it to you, you can't touch it, see it, hear it, etc. You can't even be sure that it even exists, and usually...it doesn't!! So, instead of calling the Ne type delusional...we call them 'imaginative'. (sounds nicer that way)

    Ne types see you figuratively pointing your finger, and they are trying to figure out what the hell you are pointing at. Or worse, when they are trying to describe something, they are hoping you are at least trying to look past their finger and at least attempt to see the big blob they are figuratively pointing at, themselves.

    So, how are you going to communicate blob information to someone else? Well, it helps if you have as much little blobs of information that can help you define it or make it clearer. And to get that, you have to do a whole lot of exploring in the hopes that maybe someday, you'll get just the right description so that everyone else can see this blob as well...(instead of them thinking its just your imaginary friend).

    Fine, I'll use the guidelines to show how this blob fits with typical Ne descriptions.

    potential/possibility, chance? the blob is virtually shapeless, maybe it's shaped this way, or maybe that way, or maybe these characteristics will help describe it...no? ok fine, how about these other characteristics? Yes, I'm still talking about the same blob!

    the unique/unusual, the unknown, search, newness? it's a damned blob that doesn't exist in reality, or it may not, ooh, what if it does, gotta find out now.... how ya gonna find out if it really exists or not? explore, look for it, find all those little blob parts so you can have proof that your blob exists...and that you're not delusional....

    essence, perception of the whole, internal makeup? If I can figure out what the defining attributes of this blob is, then maybe you can 'see' it too It's A, but not B, has C, doesn't do D...etc etc etc
    (have to differentiate between blobs, ya'know?)
    (and here, the Xi elements come in to play, to help out)

    "a state of trying to see novel connections"? who needs to try? Blobs morph, it's trying to pin them down that sux. Consider how many definitions and views exist of the IE...guess what...IE are Ne blobs!!!

    Ok, so you want to describe your blob...er TPE to me? Ok, answer these questions for me so that I can build up a blob construct of your TPE. What is it, what does it do, what are some of it's qualities, what purpose does it serve, etc etc. The more details you can give me, the more I can grasp of this blob TPE. Because, you know, it's not something I can actually SEE, myself, with my own two eyes.

    If you're talking about an Event blob, I need you to reconstruct the Event as clearly as possible. Remember, I wasn't there, I don't know these things. Maybe you didn't notice something important, maybe you did, I don't know, I wasn't there. Who was there? Where was this? What happened? Then what happened? How long did that take? (gotta build a timeframe of this blob Event). Ok, now remember, I wasn't there, so....did X happen? was Y involved? Have you considered Z? Some other blob Events I've heard of have had LMNOP, did yours?

    This blob TPE...you know, you tell me it has X, Y, and Z...but so does A, and B, are you sure they aren't involved? Oh, you meant Z, Y, and X...wait...isn't that kinda the same thing? (you call it a paradox...I call it an unclear blob)

    Here's the thing. If we talk about the attributes, the big blob begins to take form, we see it a little more clearly with each attribute. If attributes are missing, we can't see it as clearly, so we're left guessing. You call it "possibilities" and "superfluous use of subjunctive forms of verbs"...we call it..unsureness if this is the blob you intended.

    If you give a word for the blob, well, I can recite the word all frickin day...or at least until I get distracted by another blob. But are you sure that I'm talking about the same blob you are? How can you be sure? Just because you can see it, or imagine it, doesn't mean that you've successfully communicated that blob to me so that what I'm seeing is equivalent to the blob you're seeing.

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    Now, if you want a less...blobby..description of Ne, check out my description in this link:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...3&postcount=36

    I would quote it, but there's already a wall of text and a character count limit.
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    Now, wanna learn more about Ne? Grab a partner and play a game where they think of something...the more abstract the better (if it is a concrete item, it cannot be in the room)....and you have to guess what it is. And so they don't accidentally give you any clues, they can only answer "yes", "no", "unsure", or "reword your question".

    Here's another version. Imagine some abstract TPE, and try to describe it to your friend, without using any revealing terms. Remember, you're trying to describe a blob. How clear can you make it to them without speaking a 'wall of text'? Yeah, that's what I thought. Now, try it again and this time, don't use any revealing terms.
    This article was originally published in blog: Ne Blobs started by anndelise
    Comments 13 Comments
    1. wasp's Avatar
      wasp -
      this is fantastic

    1. Bertrand's Avatar
      Bertrand -
      i get what you mean here, but the shadows analogy is the exact opposite of what Plato intended. its an interesting inversion, though, that points to the psychological character of what is considered primary
    1. Pallas's Avatar
      Pallas -
      Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
      i get what you mean here, but the shadows analogy is the exact opposite of what Plato intended. its an interesting inversion, though, that points to the psychological character of what is considered primary
      If you like Nietzsche you're Ni. That'd make Plato the same thing. Ne wants to stay in the cave. It's much more comfortable and Si there.
    1. WinnieW's Avatar
      WinnieW -
      Quote Originally Posted by entelecheia View Post
      Ne wants to stay in the cave.
      Hmm. imagines what it would be to live in a cave that is different from the cave that you are in.
    1. thehotelambush's Avatar
      thehotelambush -
      Quote Originally Posted by entelecheia View Post
      If you like Nietzsche you're Ni. That'd make Plato the same thing. Ne wants to stay in the cave. It's much more comfortable and Si there.
      Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
      Hmm. imagines what it would be to live in a cave that is different from the cave that you are in.
      I would say instead that Si prefers to remain in the cave. Then your views become compatible.
    1. Pallas's Avatar
      Pallas -
      Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
      I would say instead that Si prefers to remain in the cave. Then your views become compatible.
      Si is fine leaving the cave since they're their own cave. Ne wants to stay in the cave due to Si Suggestive. Si needs to become the cave so Ne can leave their cave and get on with their life.

      Of course, socionix is all wrong. What's real is Psyche-Yoga physics (F) who are the only people strong enough to leave the cave. Volition really wants to leave the cave, but with weak Physics they'll just die without their dual. The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity, except me, since I have strong physics and volition.
    1. thehotelambush's Avatar
      thehotelambush -
      Quote Originally Posted by entelecheia View Post
      Si is fine leaving the cave since they're their own cave. Ne wants to stay in the cave due to Si Suggestive. Si needs to become the cave so Ne can leave their cave and get on with their life.
      This is the trouble with personifying the IM elements. If you're using Si, you prefer stability. If you're using Ne, you prefer change. An Ne leading type will primarily use Ne, although they will be receptive to others accomplishing the Si goal for them in certain cases.
    1. Pallas's Avatar
      Pallas -
      Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
      This is the trouble with personifying the IM elements. If you're using Si, you prefer stability. If you're using Ne, you prefer change. An Ne leading type will primarily use Ne, although they will be receptive to others accomplishing the Si goal for them in certain cases.
      Ne is abstract and static and Si is involved and dynamic. In Slavic countries that use socionics like MBTI, ILE is known as the type that doesn't do anything for a reason. People try to turn socionics functions into the potential to do everything well or not to use them as a hierarchy. You can't have the potential to do everything well though. You can do everything well in actuality and make it look like you have the potential to do everything well, but that's just a result of doing everything so well people don't even think to criticize what you could've done differently.

      This all is like when I was talking about how Si people were supposedly artists and craftsmen. If you don't know how dangerous and uncomfortable those kinds of things are to do, you are living in a basement at best. Your definition is basically just consistently making Si pointless and bad and describing it in terms of sensations. Si people can't do abstract things, because they're S, and they can't do anything practical, because they just want to stay in their comfort zone. On the other hand, Psyche-Yoga correctly notes that Physics is good at manipulating the physical environment and can take more discomfort than weak F people because of that. And as everyone knows, the ability to deal with emotional discomfort and the ability to deal with physical discomfort are the same. Are you admitting weakness? How does that make you feel? [/pundefinitelyintended]
    1. WinnieW's Avatar
      WinnieW -
      Quote Originally Posted by entelecheia View Post
      Si is fine leaving the cave since they're their own cave.
      I guess types with in the ego can expierence a fear of non-familiarity after leaving the cage.

      Quote Originally Posted by entelecheia View Post
      Ne wants to stay in the cave due to Si Suggestive.
      I can't speak for other types. But I see it as a tension between things that I am really comfortable with and things that I'd like to change.
      Often you can't have both, so you have to decide between change and no-change.
    1. thehotelambush's Avatar
      thehotelambush -
      Quote Originally Posted by entelecheia View Post
      Ne is abstract and static and Si is involved and dynamic.
      Ne is extroverted - extroverted elements are about expansion, adding things. Introverted elements are about maintaining, filtering, or managing what is already there. Static/dynamic just means that Ne performs discrete mental "jumps" instead of the continuous small adjustments of Si.

      In Slavic countries that use socionics like MBTI, ILE is known as the type that doesn't do anything for a reason.
      Any number of introverted types (e.g. ILI or IEI) fit that much better than ILE. Action is about Se.

      People try to turn socionics functions into the potential to do everything well or not to use them as a hierarchy. You can't have the potential to do everything well though. You can do everything well in actuality and make it look like you have the potential to do everything well, but that's just a result of doing everything so well people don't even think to criticize what you could've done differently.

      This all is like when I was talking about how Si people were supposedly artists and craftsmen. If you don't know how dangerous and uncomfortable those kinds of things are to do, you are living in a basement at best. Your definition is basically just consistently making Si pointless and bad and describing it in terms of sensations. Si people can't do abstract things, because they're S, and they can't do anything practical, because they just want to stay in their comfort zone. On the other hand, Psyche-Yoga correctly notes that Physics is good at manipulating the physical environment and can take more discomfort than weak F people because of that. And as everyone knows, the ability to deal with emotional discomfort and the ability to deal with physical discomfort are the same. Are you admitting weakness? How does that make you feel? [/pundefinitelyintended]
      This seems like a rant that is unrelated to what I said...I never said those things about Si.
    1. Chae's Avatar
      Chae -
      came to make the cave interesting aye. Decorating with a whole bunch of memes. There's a reason why SEI and SLI are integrators while ILE and IEE are energizers. Aaaand y'all shouldn't forget both elements either work together with / or / which broadens the view.
    1. Guillaine's Avatar
      Guillaine -
      I think Ne for me is burrowing into the unknown, and being excited about the dark nothingness ahead, that may be in using it in conjunction with other IMs I don't know. The information is hazy and shadowy only because it is on the cusp of where I am burrowing and once I get through that part it, turn it over and study it and integrate it into the known it is not dark anymore, but, if given proper treatment and attention, clear and ready to be used for a purpose, eaten, sown, thrown out, whatever, but the digging continues with Ne so that there is constantly inklings of unclear things coming forward, drawing me forward, and the digging continues. The cave will not keep Ne long unless there are places to dig.
    1. Baboooshka's Avatar
      Baboooshka -
      Quote Originally Posted by Guillaine View Post
      I think Ne for me is burrowing into the unknown, and being excited about the dark nothingness ahead, that may be in using it in conjunction with other IMs I don't know. The information is hazy and shadowy only because it is on the cusp of where I am burrowing and once I get through that part it, turn it over and study it and integrate it into the known it is not dark anymore, but, if given proper treatment and attention, clear and ready to be used for a purpose, eaten, sown, thrown out, whatever, but the digging continues with Ne so that there is constantly inklings of unclear things coming forward, drawing me forward, and the digging continues. The cave will not keep Ne long unless there are places to dig.
      Ne is play-doh. And just like play-doh, I strongly advise against eating it. Just don't do it, no matter how tempting it is.