• Activity Relations INFj and ISTp by Stratiyevskaya

    Activity Relations INFj and ISTp by Stratiyevskaya


    EII – INFj – Dostoyevsky (Fi-Ne)
    SLI – ISTp – Gabin (Si-Te)

    See also:
    Type and Intertype Descriptions by Stratiyevskaya
    Quick Intertype Chart
    Wikisocion - Vera Stratiyevskaya



    Relations in this dyad are similar to activity relations of Gamma introverts in that they occur between two introverted, constructivist types; however, unlike the Gamma example these relations are between two positivists. That is, both people are expecting only the best from each other, and each wants to offer his help and be of good service. SLI is quite impressed by EII's kindness, tact, and gentleness. Well-wishing, accommodating, and optimistically oriented SLI also initially makes a favorable impression on his activity partner. Relationship takes a very positive turn if the goals and objectives of both partners coincide. They may find themselves to be quite worthy of each other and soon legalize their union, since both of them are strategic types that strive to reach their desired goals quickly. Their mutual positivism prevents them from spending much time imagining and contemplating possible pitfalls, negative outcomes, and potential deterioration of relations.

    Nevertheless, over the course of time this is what happens. SLI begins to move away from EII, to "escape". This occurs for several reasons:

    SLI feels most comfortable in a relationship where there is some distance, while EII strives to keep very short interpersonal distances, from which he tries not to retreat and "lose ground". Over time, EII's emotionality increases, which begins to annoy the SLI, because he is oriented at flexible, manipulative emotional influence of his dual IEE. It is imperative for SLI that his partner is able to emotionally adjust to him and manipulate the interpersonal distance, but EII cannot manipulate and adjust their distance by using his emotions, since EII's aspect of "ethics of emotions" is in inert position. Instead, the EII is oriented to "constantly approach", all the time shortening the distance between him and another person. Thus SLI has no choice but to create this distance himself. This he accomplishes by either moving away from his "activity" partner or by showing deliberate indifference to his feelings and needs.

    Gabin is not only slipping away from his partner - he seems to be "slipping" out of the situation, going out of the relationship, and, as any irrational type, he does so spontaneously and unpredictably. For example, on the aspect of "intuition of time" he can suddenly cancel a date or without any warning disappear for a few weeks. Meanwhile, Dostoevsky, who is subconsciously oriented at the exactness and meticulousness of his dual LSE, is shocked by such lack of tact. He starts thinking about possible reasons, attempting to understand such behavior of his partner, and uses every opportunity to sort out relations with his activator.

    An example: A female student of type EII in anticipation of her friend SLI cleans her apartment, dresses up herself, and waits for his call. Late in the evening, when her mood has been already ruined, he finally calls and without further explanations says that he will not be able to meet her today. The girl is upset by this turn of events. She persuades him to change his decision and promises to wait for him. As a rational type, she is already set on having this date and prefers to not change this course of events. Moreover, as a strongly ethically oriented type, she realizes that this man does not value her feelings and her disposition, but she strongly wishes to save the relationship. She first attempts to softly and gently persuade him to reconsider, which he, of course, does not. Then she tries to find out the true reason behind him not wishing to come over, but he doesn't know himself - he simply feels that he does not want to come and see her today, that is all. She is now offended and voices her accusations and reprimands, which are followed by demonstrative alienation. Now this he tries to prevent, and upon seeing that he is losing her he says: "okay, wait, I will come over," and arrives in the morning.

    So why did the date fall through? First of all, here we have a mismatch in behavior based on aspects of rationality and irrationality. Each of these activity partners is "programmed" for his or her own "script" of how relations should develop. While Dostoevsky as any rational type is set at sequential development of events, Gabin as any irrational has to lead his partner through an entire "maze" of relations that is full of all sorts of tricks, tests, and tangles. Only someone possessing very strong intuition would be able to see behind all this jumble of inconsistent actions of a very definitive strategy.

    Therefore, here, as in any activation dyad, there is some displacement and readjustment of dominant priorities: attempting to predict the behavior Gabin, Dostoevsky has to put more emphasis on his creative function Ne, "intuition of opportunities". His leading function of "ethics of relations" begins to fade into the background for two reasons: EII notices that SLI is very sensitive to any ethical analysis and sorting out of relations, and, in addition, over time, EII becomes more sure that his partner is loyal and dedicated, but not too obligated to fulfill his promises - and this fact makes the EII rely even more on his intuition - that is, attempt to act more flexibly and spontaneously i.e. irrationally.

    Thus, EII begins to take on the subtype of IEE. Still, here are a couple of questions: How well can he take on this subtype? How will this development affect his actions and his behavior? How will this mend his relationship with SLI?

    The answer to these questions is well illustrated by an example of a married couple who had lived in such activity union for over sixty years. Here the woman is of type EII and the man is of type SLI. They met, became friends and fell in love while they were still in early adolescence. They spent time together in a company of mutual friends and very quickly started feeling pulled towards each other. Very soon everyone was thinking of them as the "bride" and the "groom", although the "bride" was still a girl and related to her "groom" as an elder brother (since both of them grew up without parents and were left to themselves). They married right after the revolution - he had just served in the army, and during that time she has grown up.

    Then began a new war, in which he was also involved, and a new life full of stormy events. He has participated in all these social events and led a very active and involved life of an extrovert, fighting, expropriating, revolutionizing, but rarely spending any time back home. In peaceful times he appeared at home infrequently and even then only to eat and to sleep. Even on weekends and holidays there were some urgent matter that required his presence. His wife and children referred to this with understanding. They got used to this and took for granted - such were the times. Thus, in his family, he gradually assumed the role of a lodger - peaceful, quiet, calm - very comfortable and convenient.

    Of course, they have spent some time together - each sitting in his own corner, occupied by his own matters. They never went anywhere together. "Holiday atmosphere" of their relationship has remained in the distant past, in memories of their early youth, in the pre-wedding season. So it happened that each of them "activated" on their own - she took on the household chores, he took on participation in social and public life.

    The question is: where are activity relations within this relationship? They were present here all the time, but only at a large distance, or to be more precise, at the optimal distance for her SLI husband, who has tried to maintain this distance throughout their lives.

    By the time of his retirement, he was a member of many community organizations (the member of the "street committee", chairman "of the neighborhood committee," and so on), such that again he spent very little time at home. When he came over he did it only to immediately leave, as would be expected from a "classical" Gabin.

    And even then, when he grew too old to be engaged in all this social work, he, nevertheless, constantly found ways to "slip away" from home, if only just to wander about. For example, he would take a bag and supposedly go to the market. This particularly upset his EII wife: how can he go to the market without taking the money and without even asking her what he should purchase? She would catch him already by the fence and try to return him back to the house, or at least find out where he is really going. These conversations happened in raised tones, and he would try to quickly "escape" without hearing all of it out.

    And what about his EII wife? Even though she was the sweetest and kindest woman, over time, her character has become spoiled. She started to harass the members of her household with hysterics and temper tantrums, which intensified every time that her husband left to take care of some seemingly trifling errands. SLI doesn't simply leave. First, he starts physically turning away from the person, thus cutting him off from communication, and then he leaves not looking back, being absorbed in his own very closed off world.

    She never learned how to manipulate with her emotions. Thus, to exert some influence on him, she had to "wind herself up" to the maximum. There was only one method that had any effect on him: she would jump up to the level of his face, as she was short by height, and scream while swinging her fists at him - otherwise he simply didn't pay attention to her. The more she spoke and the more she raised her voice - the more calm and unruffled he seemed. This is a typical "complex" of Gabin that has its origins at his problematic "ethics of emotions". To her hysterics and tantrums he also referred calmly and attributed them to their age and poor health.

    His alienation and coldness have caused her immense emotional pain. She always felt that he was slipping away from her, as if he tried to elude their whole life together - but she couldn't do anything about it.

    The last time he "escaped" six months before his death, when he could no longer recognize her. She lived another eleven years, and all these years she regretted and lamented that he once against has left her alone, but recalled the life that they have lived together in positive tones as happy and successful. Now they are together ...


    Source: http://socionika-forever.blogspot.com/2010/06/4.html
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    Comments 28 Comments
    1. Words's Avatar
      Words -
      Oh, thanks.
    1. Beautiful sky's Avatar
      Beautiful sky -
      Thanks lungs, this is good.
    1. Absurd's Avatar
      Absurd -
      ...
    1. Beautiful sky's Avatar
      Beautiful sky -
      Sounds like Ashton and I, the only way he listens is when I'm raging at him.
    1. Waster's Avatar
      Waster -
      !

      That was sad.
    1. Beautiful sky's Avatar
      Beautiful sky -
      Quote Originally Posted by StridingStrider View Post
      !

      That was sad.
      Aw; I love SLI, don't be sad. Sometimes people are great as friends. This sort of stuff happens when you're in a relationship.
    1. Waster's Avatar
      Waster -
      Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
      Aw; I love SLI, don't be sad. Sometimes people are great as friends. This sort of stuff happens when you're in a relationship.
      I'm sorry to hear about you and Ashton, Maritsa. You must really be able to relate to the article.

      But just to be clear, I was talking about the story of the SLI and EII in the article. In particular how their relationship broke down due to a lack of communication and understanding. Sixty years is a long time to be in an unhappy relationship.

      Quote Originally Posted by Article View Post
      SLI feels most comfortable in a relationship where there is some distance, while EII strives to keep very short interpersonal distances, from which he tries not to retreat and "lose ground". Over time, EII's emotionality increases, which begins to annoy the SLI, because he is oriented at flexible, manipulative emotional influence of his dual IEE. It is imperative for SLI that his partner is able to emotionally adjust to him and manipulate the interpersonal distance, but EII cannot manipulate and adjust their distance by using his emotions, since EII's aspect of "ethics of emotions" is in inert position. Instead, the EII is oriented to "constantly approach", all the time shortening the distance between him and another person. Thus SLI has no choice but to create this distance himself. This he accomplishes by either moving away from his "activity" partner or by showing deliberate indifference to his feelings and needs.
      I'm curious with some parts of the article however.

      How does the EII express her increased emotionality which annoys the SLI? From the INFJ article on this website they're supposed to be outwardly stoic, but I guess this changes the longer into a relationship?

      How does someone (like the IEE) create 'interpersonal distance' using her emotions? Interest in her partner (IEE) goes through hot and cold periods, whereas EII grows every more attached and 'clingy' to SLI?

    1. Suz's Avatar
      Suz -
      I suspect that the article is a very extreme or exaggerated case.

      In general from what i understand, activity pairings in marriage are fairly common and the next best pairing after duality. I've even heard some people say that activity is better, but idk. I think it's probably easier to find one's activity partner than one's dual, because activity partners are more visible to you. In my case, I see my my activity partners (LSEs) everywhere and generally admire them highly and that admiration usually turns out to be mutual. Prolonged interactions do get a little bit exhausting though, requiring a break from each other from time to time. But during the "exhaustion" and "break" you still admire each other. I haven't been in a relationship with one yet though, just bosses and platonic friends, but i imagine it would be similar.

      Activity is a pairing where you rev each other up, in contrast to duality where you are just comfortable being at baseline. But being revved up isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    1. applejacks's Avatar
      applejacks -
      Quote Originally Posted by StridingStrider View Post

      How does someone (like the IEE) create 'interpersonal distance' using her emotions? Interest in her partner (IEE) goes through hot and cold periods, whereas EII grows every more attached and 'clingy' to SLI?

      My husband is SLI and I'm IEE. This excerpt couldn't be closer to the truth when it comes to SLI's need for independence / distance. I've spent a great deal of time watching and learning about his needs in the relationship. I can usually tell when he's tired and needs to be by himself to decompress, so I make sure not to use that time to trigger any serious conversations or to invade his space.

      To answer your question, and this is just my instinct answering here- IEEs seem to be very adaptable and are fairly in-tune with our mates. We'll choose the opportune time to increase or decrease our distance according to mood and setting. I seem to subconsciously know he will be receptive to affection, a serious conversation, or a general invasion of his space, and as an IEE I'm able to act on that with tact and charm. If, however, the mood or setting isn't right, I'll go about my way and find something interesting and fun to do to keep myself occupied until the mood / setting changes.

      I'm not sure how this differs from an EII, but this is how my husband and I seem to get along.

      I think it was @Eliza Thomason that mentioned this dual pairing is one that needs a great deal of independence. SLI and IEE both need their independence (their own "domain" / career), after which they can reunite together and share in the happenings of each other's worlds.
    1. Beautiful sky's Avatar
      Beautiful sky -
      Ok here we go...

      Being that SLI like to have some distance in a relationship and by this they like to go do things on their own, it often leaves me alone and just doing house chores by myself which isn't very conducive to the kind of emotional life I have. I am fine being by myself, however it is often the lack of companionship that suffers along with my activity relations. Being the type who does just fine on my own, that is that I'm not needy and dependent on others to live the kind of life I want, I often find that SLI are attracted to me for those qualities.

      When I experience strong emotions in front of an SLI, they often act like "I'm not going to bother with this person." Being the type who does not value my feelings and dispositions, SLI also does not strive to calm me down and lessen my worries when I'm emotional. It's like they do the opposite...saying "oh you're going to cry? let me do things that will make you cry more, make you feel more pain and make you look more horrible in front of others." They have no heart when it comes to me and my emotional life. I have been in a relationship with an SLI before and I've experience the heartless nature of their emotions when it comes to me and my needs at times when affection, compassion, kindness is better called for especially by certain and very specific SLI members here on the forum (you may check out my typing list and give a guess as to who those people might be).

      I would rather be alone for the rest of my life if it meant to be depressed and lonely than to be in a relationship with an SLI.
    1. DaftPunk's Avatar
      DaftPunk -
      At least this description is better than the IEE/LSE activity but still far from good.

      @Maritsa don't you think it's more a question of character than of type? IMO ST types might not be good at figuring out how someone is feeling but they can still be compassionate. Maybe more through actions like a hug than with words.
      But I could imagine that very intense display of emotions could hit the SLI's Fe PoLR
    1. Beautiful sky's Avatar
      Beautiful sky -
      Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
      At least this description is better than the IEE/LSE activity but still far from good.

      @Maritsa don't you think it's more a question of character than of type? IMO ST types might not be good at figuring out how someone is feeling but they can still be compassionate. Maybe more through actions like a hug than with words.
      But I could imagine that very intense display of emotions could hit the SLI's Fe PoLR
      I'm not talking about something that hits their polr. I'm talking about something they do to anger me more so that it specifically gets me to be more emotional.

      Yes, ST are quite capable of compassion and sympathy. SLI are capable of sympathy in an indirect manner. For example, what an SLI might do is say things that represent their moral outlook "my mother worked hard. She's an awesome woman and she had two jobs" and while saying this they may come to feel love and affection for the values of hard work and responsibility the members they feel for act and do. However, if I should say "I'm leaving you because I can't find that you help me with anything around the house" and SLI's response might be bordering on physical and anger saying such things as "well f*** you B**** leave then...you f***** w****" but these things get me more angry and say "well, if you feel this way about me then don't stop me, don't chase after me, don't say mean things to me and just let me go." The reality is that they don't want to but they don't know how to articulate what they are truly feeling and what they want from their SO.
    1. Beautiful sky's Avatar
      Beautiful sky -
      LSE BABY!!!! NOM

      I LOVE THE "WHERE ARE YOU; WILL YOU BE UP AT 10? ARE YOU GOING HOME AFTER WORK?" IN TERMS OF HOW LSE LIKE TO KEEP AN EYE ON WHERE I AM. EXTERNAL ACTIVITY OF AN OBJECT NOM NOM NOM OHMYGGGGOOOD.

      Some people call this controlling. This is the nature of keeping an eye on a person, their movement, and their activity in time. oh lord I love LSE.
    1. Waster's Avatar
      Waster -
      Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
      I would rather be alone for the rest of my life if it meant to be depressed and lonely than to be in a relationship with an SLI.
      Wow, harsh.

      Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
      LSE BABY!!!! NOM

      I LOVE THE "WHERE ARE YOU; WILL YOU BE UP AT 10? ARE YOU GOING HOME AFTER WORK?" IN TERMS OF HOW LSE LIKE TO KEEP AN EYE ON WHERE I AM. EXTERNAL ACTIVITY OF AN OBJECT NOM NOM NOM OHMYGGGGOOOD.

      Some people call this controlling. This is the nature of keeping an eye on a person, their movement, and their activity in time. oh lord I love LSE.
      For me it would be:

      FUCK OFF AND LEAVE ME ALONE! STOP BEING A CONTROL FREAK!
    1. DaftPunk's Avatar
      DaftPunk -
      I really don't get why people are so obsessed with duality relationships. People don't fall in love with a IE but what people do with the information they get through their IE.

      I' don't get how people base their Relationship luck on a theory made by a Fi- PoLR. IMO it's just stupid.
    1. Waster's Avatar
      Waster -
      Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
      I really don't get why people are so obsessed with duality relationships. People don't fall in love with a IE but what people do with the information they get through their IE.

      I' don't get how people base their Relationship luck on a theory made by a Fi- PoLR. IMO it's just stupid.
      I don't think people do, honestly. At least the majority.

      But if your going to spend a significant amount of your life with someone it makes sense to think about the type of person who'd you'd be most compatible with. And for that I'm very grateful for Socionics. If nothing else it promotes tolerance.
    1. willekeurig's Avatar
      willekeurig -
      II find this to be frustratingly accurate. I have a comic strip to demonstrate how it works.

    1. Iris's Avatar
      Iris -
      Quote Originally Posted by Waster View Post
      I don't think people do, honestly. At least the majority.

      But if your going to spend a significant amount of your life with someone it makes sense to think about the type of person who'd you'd be most compatible with. And for that I'm very grateful for Socionics. If nothing else it promotes tolerance.
      I could have said exactly the same thing myself.

      Socionics has helped me to have improved tolerence for casual interactions. For long term commitment, however, it is worth trying to find someone you work well with.

      What I have noticed is that over time, communication difficulties get old. You find yourself in this conversational tangle that is such a waste of time. Sometimes it verges on the ridiculous. It isnt even stuff that really matters much, just the details of life that have to be worked out.
      I have posted a few examples somewhere.
    1. Beautiful sky's Avatar
      Beautiful sky -
      Quote Originally Posted by Waster View Post
      Wow, harsh.



      For me it would be:

      FUCK OFF AND LEAVE ME ALONE! STOP BEING A CONTROL FREAK!
      oh that's nothing...LSE get INCREASINGLY controlling

      I love SLI. Just this:

      We were at the car show with my LSE cousin and her SLI husband. He didn't feel like walking around with us and told my LSE cousin "I'll meet you where we entered the building." When my LSE cousin and I were done walking around the car show we went back to the entrance of the show and he wasn't there. She got so furious and raged. She called him demanding to know where he was because she cut her trip short because he didn't want to participate. He said he exited off the middle of the building at another entrance. When she demanded to know why he'd done that he said he figured we would know. My cousin said I did exactly what you said which was exited from where we entered. He then begged for her attention and sympathy by saying "I exited there because my leg hurt." She asked him if she should go get the car and he said no that he would walk to where we were. I would not have done what he did. To exit where you enter is just that nothing more. It's not A to B unless we feel like C without communicating C.

      Next year she and I are going together.
    1. Iris's Avatar
      Iris -
      http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ion-difficulty

      Thread about communication difficulties ^