• The Clock of the Socion: Energy Dynamics of Quadra and Benefit Rings by Gulenko

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    The Clock of the Socion: Energy Dynamics of Quadra and Benefit Rings



    This is a transcript of the report made by VV Gulenko at the XXV International Conference on Socionics September 21, 2009. The report was published in the 2nd issue of the Journal of the NSO in 2010 in a slightly edited and abridged version. Source: http://socionics.kiev.ua/articles/fe...chasy-sociona/

    Introduction

    In my previous report I was considering the lowest level in socionics - the functional level. Now I will move in the opposite direction and we will address the socion as a whole.
    Looking from far above, it is difficult to see the details. Thus we will conduct this investigation expeditiously, moving from global societal level down to the level of individual types and only slightly touching upon individual functions. My goal is to show the socion in light of all the complex relationships that exist between these levels, and, additionally, to do so from perspective of dynamics.

    I will touch upon such major issues as life and death, because time is always associated with such things - birth, death, etc. Life and death not of socion as a whole but of a single given quadra, as this quadra emerges, comes into full force, and then dissipates. I do not mean physical death of individuals but of the products of workings of their psyche, which runs along an ordered developmental course.

    We shall investigate the energy-informational progression of complex communication systems. At a cursory view, it looks chaotic: randomly, some political and activist figures emerge seemingly out of nowhere, and suddenly, as if by magic, change the course of history, new systems and methods get introduced, new social order is established, and so on. In reality, this is not quite so. This progression has its own internal logic, its own internal rhythm of the development, which in this report I shall call "the clock of the socion."
    Before we proceed any further, I must tell you that socion, if it's regarded as a whole, is something rather vague. When you begin to study it in detail, it starts splitting into parts, into grouping of types and subsystems. We do not have effective methods for studying socion as a whole. Although many have attempted this before, and I have tried it as well, conducting experiments with socion in general, but these have been only the first steps.
    As experience shows, the socion is very multifaceted: it can be considered from one side or the other. I think that there exist two basic views which I will tentatively call "the primary and secondary organization of the socion" which are dependent on the location of the observer. It is one thing if you are located inside the socion, then you will see what I call the primary organization. In this case you are a participant and will see neither the quadra nor the rings. You will clearly see temperaments: one person is very directed, another one is calm, one is actively debating, another doesn't engage, one is interested in passing on knowledge, and the other demands practical implementation. That is, you will see their attitudes towards some activity. These form two subsystems in the socion - temperaments, the energy qualities of a person, and attitudes, area of one's interests and realization, which have been discovered by psychologists long time ago. These are always working together. This is what I call the primary organization of the socion, which manifests at close physical and psychological distances.

    There is also a view of socion from much greater distance. This is the secondary level of organization of the socion: the quadra and the rings of supervision and benefit. It's another question what kind of rings we should consider. Here there are many hidden contradictions since there are two types of rings: rings of supervision and rings of benefit. When we take Model A, which was discovered by A. Augusta, we're looking at functions from point of view of rings of supervision. We can also use a different model, one that is based on considering the rings on benefits instead, and this model is different from Model A. The word "rings" in this articles will denote benefit rings. We must give credit to A. Augusta here because she has discovered both types of rings, however, she gave priority to the informational revision chains i.e. supervision rings. However, rings of benefits are more dynamic and better reflect the development of the socion as a single unit. We shall now take a look at the socion from far distance.

    In general, progress forward implies aging as an inevitable process of exhaustion of energy - as a person grows old in the course of his life, the person loses his or her energy. When a person is young and healthy, it seems that he do anything, and his main strength is not in what he knows, as he knows very little. With age a person becomes wise and skilled, or, in other words, saturated with information, but not with energy and health. This is the dynamics of time: the flow of energy and information. These processes are inverses of each other. I have previously referred to this: there are several polarities associated with this dynamic, such traits as extroversion / introversion for one. Extrovert is the energetic beginning, introvert - the informational. So, if we look at the socion dialectically, its energetic constituent is in extraversion, while informational - is in introversion. This is only one polarity. There is a second polarity which has strong influences: this is polarity of right and left (process and result). It turns out that here there are also two orientations: right ring of socio-progress is oriented at accumulation of information, left ring - at accumulation of energy.

    There exists a certain rhythm within the socion which creates energy maximums or peaks and energy minimums or depressions. Energy minimum is the most incomprehensible, the most complex state. Among the types that play a key role in states of such energy minimums, a role which in chaos theory is known as bifurcation (path selection, development at critical points), there is only one type out of four types that has the most power to shift the dynamics either one or the other way. Thus, informational time (lets call it T1) - this is ILI, the intuitive logical introvert. ILI is most perceptive of the informational time flow, while LII is most perceptive of energy flow. These two types are very similar to each other in terms of their mission. For ILI intuition of time comes first, and then comes structuring of this time flow. For LII it is the other way around, that is, first structure - then timing. They are as if left and right hand images of each other. The clock of the socion, figuratively speaking, has 16 divisions instead of 12. The LII as a type, take Kant for example: it was well known that he was like a walking clock. He always knew what time it was up to the last minute. He felt the energy flow, knew when to up his pace or when to slow down to arrive at his destination in time.

    The ILI's perception is quite different. He's not in a hurry anywhere. His time flow is linear, the time of a philosopher who thinks that one can never keep up with time, that it is constantly flowing, everything changes, thus while you're trying to do something the situation will no longer be the same. It is best to wait for when it will comes back, and you are already sitting prepared for it. These are two very different perceptions of flow of time. It is generally the time of ILI that predominates, because on large scale the preferred ring is the right or process one. In large groups, it is most often the right/process types that lead and set the tempo for the group. In small groups, the opposite is true: time flow is more uneven, you can speed it up or you can slow it down. Now lets examine how time flows within each quadra.

    How does one quadra replace the next? To do this energy needs to be expanded, a force needs to be exerted i.e. there is a need for a type which will facilitate this shift. But no one will voluntarily become displaced, so how does this happen? I will give a few examples of the programmed life and death for each type within its quadra as well as their contributions on a social level.

    First Quadra - Alpha

    The leader of the first quadra (Alpha) is the Seeker, ILE, who finds and invents. Next, the implementer and disseminator of these novelties, who attracts attention of other people is the Enthusiast, ESE. This is the only sensing type that will readily engage in something new without pragmatic expectations, without expecting a payout, and the only sensing type that can do so for prolonged period of time fueled purely by its own enthusiasm. He does not want to do this, but it draws him in (Ne-HA). Social networks, meetings and parties emerge, at which there is not only exchange of information, but also exchange of energy - people communicate, share their ideas and emotions, exchange gifts and favors. ESE can breathe life into these abstracted ideas. This is the implementer of alpha quadra. The role of quadra stabilizer comes next. The system becomes unmanageable, so within each quadra there is a stabilizing type - this is the most evolutionary, the most even type. In alpha quadra, this mission belongs to SEI, the Mediator, which is so called because he always knows where there is a golden mid-point, how not to go too far either one way or the other way. Right now in Socionics this mission is not getting resolved. There are gatherings and social networking, but there is no unity, no stabilizing comfort, thus we are stuck at this stage. The next role is the proofreader, the corrector or perfector of a quadra. In alpha this is LII, the Analyst. His mission is reorganization and debugging. The maximum ILE can do is make a prototype, but someone needs to bring it to completion. Only LII can do this and turn it into a working mechanism. The second quadra is already waiting for a working model - they will not accept a prototype. Keep in mind that we are talking about a large group scales here. Each type has its own high and low points. Take a look at ESE. First he becomes acquainted with you, which is followed by a stream of positive emotions. Then he starts energetically running around, at which point you don't know what to do. Then he becomes underestimated, no longer appreciated. Then it all starts anew. Thus psychological death and rebirth occur many times within each type. Take a look as SEI. First stabilization, pleasure, relaxation - and then gradual fading. He withdraws into himself for some reason: "I am well, the rest concerns me little".

    This process occurs like ticking of a clock. The LII will create a schematic and make plans, but in the course he will get replaced. This is instigated by sensorics and business logic - the weakest functions of this type - it cannot accomplish much of concrete and pragmatic value. Thus comes the next quadra. This is the bifurcation point - at type of LII. In any quadra there is such fourth, "perfector" or "corrector" type. At the point of this type it is decided whether quadra should end or continue on.

    Second Quadra - Beta

    Lets take a look at the second quadra (Beta). There is a type there that I call the "linker" - someone who links the quadra - a semi-active participant. During experiments it is easily visible who plays this role within a group. Beta quadra starts with EIE, the Mentor. This is the most revolutionary type in the socion. He is usually rebelling against some current system. At some point his rebellion becomes more forceful - he becomes almost as if obsessed - he teaches, proselytizes, demands to stop the old and start the new. Then he builds a new organization. It is interesting to note that building an organization is not accomplished by LSI as some think, but by EIE. Later Mentor burns out - breaks down, or become ill, or loses his sanity, or simply withdraws from public sphere. The sooner this occurs - the higher was the energy load of the type. Or in other words, the faster the clock is ticking inside him - the sooner he accomplishes the above. At the end he burns out, often physically.

    Next comes the implementer of beta quadra - SLE, the Marshall - the organizer, volitional sensing type. He pushes forward not with emotions, but with resources i.e. he finds resources for implementation. People have already been mobilized and organized (this was the mission of EIE) and now resources are needed to make plans and ideas materialize. Nothing can happen without sensorics. Information needs to be converted into energy, to materialize in some concrete things - this is the role of the Marshall. When he puts the right people in the right places and pushes all the buttons a breakthrough occurs - the old simply gets wiped out and replaced by the new with use of force. But SLE needs more and more to feel satisfied - he builds a house and buys a new car - but eventually all of this starts to fade. And it ends with remorse - late in life SLE comes to repent and regret it all. As a representative of second quadra he carries romantic values. Where is the main idea? He can turn to religion, start going to confessions or visiting a psychologist. This they would have never done voluntarily. It happens when they have already reached the edge.

    Then comes the stabilizer of beta quadra - LSI, the Inspector. Under Marshall's rule do not expect stability ever. After everyone has calmed down and all the posts have been distributed, the organization has been formed and supported with resources, that is when the Inspector slowly but steadily builds up a kind of system under some order. This is done very carefully, beautifully, with great clarity. Reputation becomes very valued. Good reputation is created for this new organization that emerged from the less organized system of the Marshall. For LSI reputation is very important - his function is to act as a humanist, to be good, to say the right words, to look intelligent. This is followed by dogmatism - the system petrifies. On official level this is called over-bureaucratization. On this stage the mission of inspector is over and he shall remain here.

    The corrector or perfector of the quadra is its fourth type - IEI. This type is the bifurcation point - it does something to make the system transition to a completely different state, a more democratic one. This is what is called an "open society". This is the mission of third, gamma quadra. IEI carries the key which locks the second quadra and unlocks the third one. He dreams of a better life, that all this totalitarianism comes to an end, strives to create peace. He rejects force. The system disintegrates - a sudden collapse then everything moves towards a new state. This can be observed experimentally - if an IEI is working in a group he will as some point halt this huge machine. It is simply amazing how he brings about this crash, unclear how this is achieved. Here again it can all start over again or move to third quadra. But nobody will leave voluntarily, especially from second quadra.

    Third Quadra - Gamma

    Third or Gamma quadra is the quadra of liberal-democratic values. This is what we have plunged into now on a global level. If we consider the world as one community, it turns out that experiences of third quadra, liberal-democratic values, are being imposed on the entire world. This quadra's leader is SEE, the Politician, thus at this stage politics blossom - there are constant elections and re-elections, casting of votes, formation of coalitions, all sorts of behind-the-scenes agreements, say one thing but do another policy. "Be flexible," "Carpe Diem" - these are the slogans of SEE. Here picking right orientation is of primary importance - switch position, find a sponsor, find someone powerful, unite goals. SEE re-orients and re-focuses immediately. He has a keen awareness of what's happening: he feels "right now is time to act" - and quickly gets to it. He cleanly and diplomatically manipulates people. Then comes freedom, that turns into anarchy (historical example: Gorbachev, the last president of Soviet Union). If SEE is allowed to manage a system, it will come to anarchy. Absolutely.

    Now comes the second phase, LIE the Entrepreneur - the implementer of the quadra. Entrepreneur is movement, everything must flow - resources, money, information - all gets put into motion. Taking risks is necessary - only risky investments yield higher returns and LIE will not settle for making a teaspoon per hour - he needs big return and immediately. Worries, stress, and as a result self-destruction - he may exhaust himself or everything around him and it will come to collapse. Note: LIEs do not make stable organizations - their structures will collapse sooner or later. He feels lack of a structured system. This is mission for ESI, the Guardian, who could provide guardianship for this organization and keep it together but this doesn't always happen.

    Next comes the stabilizer of the quadra - ILI, the Critic. The most intelligent member of the quadra - with his foresight he delays the collapse of the bubble. Why? Because he observes, spends time waiting for the right moment. He is good at optimizing - optimizes costs and savings, but as a result stagnation begins. Everything is done correctly, logically, but it all comes to a standstill.

    Then comes ESI, the Guardian, who has the "golden key" that can lock the reign of third quadra and turn everything over to fourth quadra. ESI brings individual morality to his quadra, which is often incompatible with money. His morality is also based on freedom. How does a revolution start? "Give us freedom! Down with oppressive regime!" Anarchy follows. At this point, the need for a strong hand can turn things over back to second quadra. To prevent this from happening, capitalism must be built on ethical norms. Only then stability can be achieved. For example, in West capitalism was built on strict Protestant moral codes of self-restraint.

    Fourth Quadra - Delta

    The moral factors are suddenly become important and gain in momentum, and then fourth quadra (Delta) comes into place. In this quadra, human relations and human values are most important. I don't know when this is going to happen. Right now the global socion is at the stage of third quadra. The truly "moral" quadra is really the fourth quadra. LSE, the Administrator, is the type that will turn over management in entire world by making it more decentralized. In Europe this has already happened, but in Ukraine and Russia we're far from it because everyone wants to keep power in center, nobody will willingly hand it over to the regions. We still have a long road to travel until reaching fourth quadra in administrative sense. For LSE, work brings profits and profits accumulate. Even though he is a workaholic, clear, organized rhythm, in the end he will ask himself: for what have I been preserving this wealth? At the end of life, travel, see the world, and then what? There are few children born in the fourth quadra, nobody to pass the wealth to. Thus charity work begins. In this quadra there are a lot of problems due to sense of uselessness - I have worked and worked, but for what?

    IEE is the implementer of fourth quadra. He evokes interest, interest turns into excitement. But IEE is not ESE, the Enthusiast. In this quadra this excitement will not last long, even socionics as a novelty does not last with them. Boredom ensues. IEE brings elements of absurdism and disorganization. Then comes EII, the Humanist, who brings general human values that have always been and will be: kindness, and not the kind where you help black people in Africa, but directly help you neighbor or your friend and keep quiet about it. People of this type do not like telling about the good that they do, they feel ashamed of it. True kindness is the kind where you do not speak of it - this is proper upbringing, ideology, duty because in civilized society sense of duty is always valued.

    Next comes SLI, the Master - this is convenience, technological zenith. In this quadra, it has all been worked out already, the skill is perfected - there's nothing further for technology. There is a lot of leisure time, the city is abandoned to spend time in the country. Society starts to disintegrate, return to nature comes into effect. Apathy. Everyone is asleep. A dull moment in this world. SLI sees: although I'm well, live out in nature, breathe fresh air, but there is no emotion, no enthusiasm, maximum efficiency has been reached. All results have been achieved - this is the end socion. What remains is to go back where we came from.

    Here I have described in figurative forms how the clock of socion ticks. It work on all levels: at the individual level, and group level, and within the socion as a whole. What exists above the socion? I do not know.

    Now the findings:

    1. At all levels there is a single logic of time - four periods, each divided into four stages. The fourth stage is the key one. This point determines where the system will go to - this is point of bifurcation.

    2. The longer the socion exists and functions as single coherent system, the further its organization by specialization grows i.e. every type is fixed into its niche. If any group has come to state of ideal type, this is death. Maximum information with minimum energy. This is the point that separates life and death. The goal has been reached, the timer of the system stops.

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    Comments 19 Comments
    1. mu4's Avatar
      mu4 -
      Thank you for posting this article!
    1. EyeSeeCold's Avatar
      EyeSeeCold -
      It was interesting, but I don't know why they are pushing Socionics into more esoteric territory. It becomes terribly inapplicable and irrelevant at that level.
    1. glam's Avatar
      glam -
      Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
      It was interesting, but I don't know why they are pushing Socionics into more esoteric territory. It becomes terribly inapplicable and irrelevant at that level.
      actually i think it's the opposite - this article shows exactly how socionics is relevant to the real world, helping to explain how/why major societal changes and shifts occur, and the role and influence of each quadra/type as they happen. it's stuff like this that makes socionics more than just a simple typology, i think.

      Quote Originally Posted by article View Post
      Third or gamma quadra is the quadra of liberal-democratic values. This is what we have plunged in now on a global level. If we consider the world as one community, it turns out that experiences of third quadra, liberal-democratic values, are being imposed on the entire world.
      Quote Originally Posted by article View Post
      Taking risks is necessary - only risky investments yield higher returns and LIE will not settle for making a teaspoon per hour - he needs big return and immediately. Worries, stress, and as a result self-destruction - he may exhaust himself or everything around him and it will come to collapse. Note: LIEs do not make stable organizations - their structures will collapse sooner or later.
      this is very true imo. the world is in a Gamma period, led by the United States (a LIE country.) you can see the kind of instability resulting from the LIE-oriented high-risk systems in the global economic crises, with many enormous bailouts trying to prop up a system that was never stable or sustainable in the first place. from knowing the LIE type you know their focus is not on making a system stable (Ti-ignoring), but profitable (Te-base). so right now the world is experiencing failure/weakness of the Gamma quadra. (i'm not saying Gamma is bad or anything like that, because every quadra has its rise and fall, as the article explains.)
    1. Radio's Avatar
      Radio -
      Very interesting, thank you for posting this.
    1. Ozz's Avatar
      Ozz -
      It is interesting that LII passes to EIE (semidual), IEI passes to LIE (supervisor), ESI passes to IEE (supervisor) and SLI passes to ILE (semidual). I wonder if there is a reason for this pattern.
    1. EyeSeeCold's Avatar
      EyeSeeCold -
      Quote Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
      It is interesting that LII passes to EIE (semidual), IEI passes to LIE (supervisor), ESI passes to IEE (supervisor) and SLI passes to ILE (semidual). I wonder if there is a reason for this pattern.
      :


      Quote Originally Posted by labocat View Post
      ENFj-INTj-ESTj-ISFj-ENFj (taciturn, rational, negativist cycle or "temperament")
      INFp-ENTp-ISTp-ESFp-INFp (taciturn, irrational, positivist cycle or "temperament")
      ISTj-ESFj-INFj-ENTj-ISTj (narrator, rational, positivist cycle or "temperament")
      ESTp-ISFp-ENFp-INTp-ESTp (narrator, irrational, negativist cycle or "temperament")
      http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post826855


      Quote Originally Posted by Analyst Trevor View Post
      Gulenko's blog entry of 22.10.2010.

       
      http://goul.socionics.kiev.ua/2010/1...li-nevyigodno/

      This question is not just interesting but also practically important. In real life it happens that a person is forced to work not in their stereotype environment, but contrary to their type or related. By which model of behavior should he/she navigate then?

      The answer is this. In the opposite type of environment it's favorable to act on the Adaptation(temperament??) equivalent unit (equivalent to the shift to "superego"). And in a related setting it's favorable to act on the dual temperament i.e. Semidual or Illusory offset should be preferred.

      For example, an INTj, once in a management setting, will be prone to decentralize and devolve/delegate authority the same way an ESTj would. But an INTp, by contrast, will develop authoritarianism, like ESTp would. An ENFj in a social environment, to gain a foothold there, will be prone to moralization, like ISFj would. But an ENFp will go towards accommodating, the same thing ISFp does.

      But why our offseted INTj doesn't act according to the temperament of identity, that is, like an ISTj or INFj? After all, it would seem justified by the fact that it is not necessary to change the balanced energy.

      Apparently, somehow the criterion of "Taciturn - Narrator" comes into play, nature whichof is as much energetic/energy related (??). I've talked about this more than once on several conferences of the International Socionics Institute. The fact is that if an INTj is to chose ISTj (or INFj) strategy he/she would have to switch on Taciturn/Narrator (as well as Negativism for Positivism), which is very energetically expensive.

      Of course, I haven't recklessly discarded the alternative hypothesis - an offset on a Benefit cycle, where "Taciturn-Narrator" would stay the same. In this case, an INTj in administrative setting would act ISTp-like, and in the humanitharian setting he/she would act INFp-like. However, what to do with Rationality/Irrationality? Even before it was known that this trait is highly correlated with compatibility at a close range, and so changing its polarity would be equivalent to the loss of recharge from the outside. My opinion is that such a shift, ie benefit ring offset, or supervision perhaps, is possible, but rather volatile/unstable and very difficult. And therefore, unjustified.

      As an example, I point attention towards growth of aluminum tycoon Oleg Deripaskiy. More about his psychological features can be learned from a documentary film by Alexei Pivovarov - "Capital ". Based on non-verbal cues and judgments of style, I've typed Deripaskiy as ISTj, the Inspector.

      By tracking his activities, we see a clear shift in the direction of ENTj. In other words, something unintelligible, wtf (the Inspector has the makings of a dominant place as a successful entrepreneur. Thus is formed and then fastened one or the other subtype. Overcoming difficulties, some people are mitigated, while others are hardened. From the same type basis - completely different persons.)
      ---------------------------


      Interesting, wooohooo.
      http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post763759
    1. silke's Avatar
      silke -
      Quote Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
      It is interesting that LII passes to EIE (semidual), IEI passes to LIE (supervisor), ESI passes to IEE (supervisor) and SLI passes to ILE (semidual). I wonder if there is a reason for this pattern.
      IEI passes things over to SEE not LIE (unless it's a typo). Under this formulation, it is either the semi-dual or the mirage partner of left introverted type that takes over.

      Gulenko doesn't go over quadra reversal in detail, but he does mention that preceding quadra can take over at the point in time when reign of following quadra is coming to an end in which case it is left introvert's mirage partner that gets involved. Though some think that quadra reversal isn't possible. This is what I posted in the old thread:

      In his interpretation of it, the result/process types alternate as the quadra progresses (link). So it goes:
      a: ILE-ESE-SEI-LII
      b: EIE-SLE-LSI-IEI
      g: SEE-LIE-ILI-ESI
      d: LSE-IEE-EII-SLI
      Each quadra begins with right/process extraverted type which helps get things rolling for that quadra. The right/process introverted type comes towards the end, what he calls it the "stabilizer" - this type effectively prolongs this quadra's reign until some indeterminate point that the left/result introverted type gets involved. This type he calls the "corrector" or "perfector" and from what I've gathered it's role is to survey the product of the reign of its quadra. This he calls the "point of bifurcation" where the system can go either one of two ways: either the next quadra takes over or there is a rollback to previous quadra. I was looking recently at this thread that you've made and noticed that indeed the left introverted type, the point of path selection, is conjoined with both right introvert types of the following quadra and the preceding quadra in the taciturn and narrator cycles. Perhaps this has some connection to it. Though there is something off here as in your sequence it goes ENFj-INTj-ESTj-ISFj-ENFj where starting point is type on left and transition occurs to type on the right, but in Gulenko's story it goes the other way - INTj is the corrector type in alpha who transfers things over to ENFj and the next quadra.
    1. martynas0708's Avatar
      martynas0708 -
      A very insightful article
    1. Iris's Avatar
      Iris -
      I saw myself in the EIE description, " Beta quadra starts with EIE, the Mentor. This is the most revolutionary type in the socion. He is usually rebelling against some current system. At some point his rebellion becomes more forceful - he becomes almost as if obsessed - he teaches, proselytizes, demands to stop the old and start the new. Then he builds a new organization. It is interesting to note that building an organization is not accomplished by LSI as some think, but by EIE. Later Mentor burns out - breaks down, or become ill, or loses his sanity, or simply withdraws from public sphere. The sooner this occurs - the higher was the energy load of the type. Or in other words, the faster the clock is ticking inside him - the sooner he accomplishes the above. At the end he burns out, often physically."
      Does anyone else resonate with any of the type roles described in this article?
    1. Exodus's Avatar
      Exodus -
      Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
      IEI passes things over to SEE not LIE (unless it's a typo). Under this formulation, it is either the semi-dual or the mirage partner of left introverted type that takes over.
      Yes, and this shows that the "clock" considered as a sequence of types does not respect the structure of the socion (which is not linear). I think it is more beneficial to see it as a characterization of each type's role within the quadra, considered using the benefit ring dichotomies.
    1. Introspector's Avatar
      Introspector -
      Sooooo Obama ESI wraps up the rule of gamma and at this point you either revert to Beta with trump or Clinton or Move on to delta with bernie?

      i realize it CANT be that simple ,still its nice to simplify.
    1. ouronis's Avatar
      ouronis -
      Quote Originally Posted by Introspector View Post
      Sooooo Obama ESI wraps up the rule of gamma and at this point you either revert to Beta with trump or Clinton or Move on to delta with bernie?

      i realize it CANT be that simple ,still its nice to simplify.
      u right tho, u right
    1. Singu's Avatar
      Singu -
      The leader of the first quadra, Alpha is the Seeker, ILE, who finds and invents. Next, the implementer and disseminator of these novelties, who attracts attention of other people is the Enthusiast, ESE. This is the only sensing type that will readily engage in something new without pragmatic expectations, without expecting a payout, and the only sensing type that can do so for prolonged period of time fueled purely by its own enthusiasm. He does not want to do this, but it draws him in (Ne-HA). Social networks, meetings and parties emerge, at which there is not only exchange of information, but also exchange of energy - people communicate, share their ideas and emotions, exchange gifts and favors. ESE can breathe life into these abstracted ideas. This is the implementer of alpha quadra. The role of quadra stabilizer comes next. The system becomes unmanageable, so within each quadra there is a stabilizing type - this is the most evolutionary, the most even type. In alpha quadra, this mission belongs to SEI, the Mediator, which is so called because he always knows where there is a golden mid-point, how not to go too far either one way or the other way. Right now in Socionics this mission is not getting resolved. There are gatherings and social networking, but there is no unity, no stabilizing comfort, thus we are stuck at this stage. The next role is the proofreader, the corrector or perfector of a quadra. In alpha this is LII, the Analyst. His mission is reorganization and debugging. The maximum ILE can do is make a prototype, but someone needs to bring it to completion. Only LII can do this and turn it into a working mechanism. The second quadra is already waiting for a working model - they will not accept a prototype. Keep in mind that we are talking about a large group scales here. Each type has its own high and low points. Take a look at ESE. First he becomes acquainted with you, which is followed by a stream of positive emotions. Then he starts energetically running around, at which point you don't know what to do. Then he becomes underestimated, no longer appreciated. Then it all starts anew. Thus psychological death and rebirth occur many times within each type. Take a look as SEI. First stabilization, pleasure, relaxation - and then gradual fading. He withdraws into himself for some reason: "I am well, the rest concerns me little".


      I find this to be interesting... so how does this relate to Socionics? Ok, so ILE has created something new - Socionics by Augusta. But there are no Alpha SFs to promote it! ESEs don't give a shit about Socionics, and neither do SEIs. Nevertheless, some LIIs have started to tinker with it, and "perfect" it, like what Gulenko is doing. He's adding more "scientific" approach, he's adding more credibility and respectability to it, he's cleaning and perfecting the system to have the potential for mass-appeal and mass-implementation.

      Betas (and other quadras) think that Socionics is just a silly prototype, and there's not much promise for mass-appeal or practical implementation. But what if it did though? What if the LIIs perfected it enough? Scary thought... maybe one day, Socionics will be perfected enough to have mass-appeal and mass-implementation by the Betas. And maybe one day, we'll be living in some dystopian One Socionics One Typology society with Augusta as our Great Leader of the Socion.

      And then the IEI will somehow crash the whole system, and then it gets passed onto Gamma...
    1. Chae's Avatar
      Chae -
      IEE is the implementer of fourth quadra. He evokes interest, interest turns into excitement. But IEE is not ESE, the Enthusiast. In this quadra this excitement will not last long, even socionics as a novelty does not last with them. Boredom ensues. IEE brings elements of absurdism and disorganization.
      I relate!

      My excitement shifts very quickly, the chaos part - that's really happening on here, I create weird input right and left. I'm already half on the instinct bandwagon because it feels more promising and unexplored to me.
    1. The Exception's Avatar
      The Exception -
      Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
      Does anyone else resonate with any of the type roles described in this article?
      I much relate to the LII role- debugging and reorganizing things.
    1. msl's Avatar
      msl -
      So semidual relation ILE - SLI is like Alpha - Omega, Big Bang - End Of the World. Interesting
    1. sbbds's Avatar
      sbbds -
      Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
      The leader of the first quadra, Alpha is the Seeker, ILE, who finds and invents. Next, the implementer and disseminator of these novelties, who attracts attention of other people is the Enthusiast, ESE. This is the only sensing type that will readily engage in something new without pragmatic expectations, without expecting a payout, and the only sensing type that can do so for prolonged period of time fueled purely by its own enthusiasm. He does not want to do this, but it draws him in (Ne-HA). Social networks, meetings and parties emerge, at which there is not only exchange of information, but also exchange of energy - people communicate, share their ideas and emotions, exchange gifts and favors. ESE can breathe life into these abstracted ideas. This is the implementer of alpha quadra. The role of quadra stabilizer comes next. The system becomes unmanageable, so within each quadra there is a stabilizing type - this is the most evolutionary, the most even type. In alpha quadra, this mission belongs to SEI, the Mediator, which is so called because he always knows where there is a golden mid-point, how not to go too far either one way or the other way. Right now in Socionics this mission is not getting resolved. There are gatherings and social networking, but there is no unity, no stabilizing comfort, thus we are stuck at this stage. The next role is the proofreader, the corrector or perfector of a quadra. In alpha this is LII, the Analyst. His mission is reorganization and debugging. The maximum ILE can do is make a prototype, but someone needs to bring it to completion. Only LII can do this and turn it into a working mechanism. The second quadra is already waiting for a working model - they will not accept a prototype. Keep in mind that we are talking about a large group scales here. Each type has its own high and low points. Take a look at ESE. First he becomes acquainted with you, which is followed by a stream of positive emotions. Then he starts energetically running around, at which point you don't know what to do. Then he becomes underestimated, no longer appreciated. Then it all starts anew. Thus psychological death and rebirth occur many times within each type. Take a look as SEI. First stabilization, pleasure, relaxation - and then gradual fading. He withdraws into himself for some reason: "I am well, the rest concerns me little".


      I find this to be interesting... so how does this relate to Socionics? Ok, so ILE has created something new - Socionics by Augusta. But there are no Alpha SFs to promote it! ESEs don't give a shit about Socionics, and neither do SEIs. Nevertheless, some LIIs have started to tinker with it, and "perfect" it, like what Gulenko is doing. He's adding more "scientific" approach, he's adding more credibility and respectability to it, he's cleaning and perfecting the system to have the potential for mass-appeal and mass-implementation.

      Betas (and other quadras) think that Socionics is just a silly prototype, and there's not much promise for mass-appeal or practical implementation. But what if it did though? What if the LIIs perfected it enough? Scary thought... maybe one day, Socionics will be perfected enough to have mass-appeal and mass-implementation by the Betas. And maybe one day, we'll be living in some dystopian One Socionics One Typology society with Augusta as our Great Leader of the Socion.

      And then the IEI will somehow crash the whole system, and then it gets passed onto Gamma...
      TBT when Dingulation was still into socionics
    1. Metamorph's Avatar
      Metamorph -
      Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
      TBT when Dingulation was still into socionics
      Also, SEIs and ESEs go like "So, what's your sociotype dear/teehee?" (respectively) without caring much about the theory.

      Also, he's Singularity (another thing he seems to have stopped believing in while on the forum) and not Singulation. Accuracy of references usually makes puns better.
    1. Metamorph's Avatar
      Metamorph -
      Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
      u right tho, u right
      Bernie is beta even though Trump is a ****** wannabe. Clinton is also gamma.