• Erotic Attitudes

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    Erotic Attitudes


    If you are coming from MBTI please note that Socionics assigns j/p letters differently from the way MBTI does. Do not translate your MBTI type directly to Socionics type. If you want to find out your Socionics type, you can take socionics type tests, fill out a typing questionnaire form or make a freeform thread in What's My Type subforum, and read through the type discussions posted in socionics resources thread. Participating in forum discussions and chatbox provides more accurate feedback and type suggestions in typing threads. To read how Socionics j/p letter assignments differ from MBTI J/P visit the type names page.

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    Viktor Gulenko has proposed four groups of romance styles, also referred to as "erotic behavior" groups or "erotic attitudes". Other socionists, such as Valentina Meged and Aleksandr Bukalov, have also written on how type influences behavior in intimate relationships, but discussed typical behavior within quadras. Gulenko's approach was to find common ground between types of different quadras. Obviously, all interpretations in this area assume, or conclude, that the greatest degree of compatibility in that area is between dual pairs.

    Gulenko's romance styles are defined by the irrational element in the individual's Ego functions:



    "Aggressor" Se in EGO block ESTp (SLE, SeTi), ESFp (SEE, SeFi)
    ISTj (LSI, TiSe), ISFj (ESI, FiSe)
    "Victim" Ni in EGO block ENTj (LIE, TeNi), ENFj (EIE, FeNi)
    INTp (ILI, NiTe), INFp (IEI, NiFe)
    "Caring" Si in EGO block ESTj (LSE, TeSi), ESFj (ESE, FeSi)
    ISTp (SLI, SiTe), ISFp (SEI, SiFe)
    "Childlike" Ne in EGO block ENTp (ILE, NeTi), ENFp (IEE, NeFi)
    INTj (LII, TiNe), INFj (EII, FiNe)


    "Romance styles" refer specifically to romantic/sexual interaction -- displaying physical attraction, interest, and desire, flirting, and sexual behavior present in romantic relationships. These styles apply much less to relationships between friends or business partners.

    A more detailed description of romancing styles provided below was not written by Victor Gulenko, although it is often misattributed to him, but another western socionist.

    Please note: The names of romancing styles should not be translated literally. Romancing styles terms "victim", "aggressor", "childlike", "caring" do not carry the same meaning in Socionics as the colloquial everyday meaning of these words.


    Psuedo-Aggressors/Employees: LIE (ENTj) ILI (INTp)

    These are types who exhibit aggressive tendencies in their everyday life, and as a result tend to carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. They typically are not comfortable with connotations of the word "victim" - implying a certain weakness, effeteness, and lack of dignity. In searching for a partner, they are looking for a worthy opponent - someone who is strong enough to withstand their quirks without "breaking" so to speak.

    Aggressors/Employers: SEE (ESFp) ESI (ISFj)

    These types, like the conquerors, express their sexuality openly. In daily life they may tend to be rather submissive and as a result may tend to carry over these tendencies into their romantic life. They are won over by indirect acts of submission, and are thrilled when their love interest (in the case of the "psuedo-aggressor" type) acts unlike himself. In a partner, they are looking for their equal - someone whose solid facade they can break down piece by piece.

    Conquerors: SLE (ESTp) LSI (ISTj)

    These are assertive types who do not flinch at their own sexuality. They will express their own desire without reservation. They are won over by direct shows of submission (only after feeling that they have earned it). He will be insulted if his romantic interest gives him his title without question, and bored if the fight is too easily won. He, like the Pseudo-Aggressor and the Challenger, is questing to find his equal. Someone he can play his almost sadistic games with without "breaking."

    Challengers/Trophies: EIE (ENFj) IEI (INFp)

    These are the types who unconsciously throw a "gauntlet" down for their opponents. They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag. As a result, they may appear (both to others and to themselves) rather amorphous and can take on qualities of the other romantic attitudes, depending on the situation and who they are "challenging."

    They may, for example, give the victim half his aggressor, the psuedo-aggressor a little victim, the caregiver a bit of his child, etc. They react best, however, to those who do not "break" as a result of their games, but grant them a level of autonomy. Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the "prize" that will be given only to the rightful owner.

    Pseudo-Caregivers/Students: IEE (ENFp) EII (INFj)

    These are types who exhibit paternal/maternal tendencies towards others in their everyday lives and may thus carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. These types habitually attempt to give their partner what he/she "needs" (or what they believe they need). As a result, they may become drained by lack of attendance to their own needs and desires. In a partner, they are searching for a combination of strength and gentleness.

    Teachers: LSE (ESTj) SLI (ISTp)

    If I were to describe this type's approach to love, it would be "serious." He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach." This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension. Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable. He is looking for a worthy pupil.

    Childlike Types: ENTp (ILE) INTj (LII)

    These types seem to exist outside their own sexuality. Sex is to be metabolized psychologically for them in an almost roundabout way - as an emotional entity, or possibly even an intellectual exercise. In a partner, they are looking for someone who will deal with (and protect) their quirks and understand their sexuality on the same intellectual/emotional level.

    Caregivers: ESE (ESFj) SEI (ISFp)

    These are those types who openly express their need to "protect" and care for their romantic interest. In conversation may often lend a sympathetic ear (which, depending on the person, may be interpreted as insincerity, but it's exactly what the Child-like type is looking for). They are looking for someone who will not only accept their paternal/maternal tendencies, but welcome and thrive on it.


    Related discussions and links:

    How accurate are Erotic Attitudes / Romancing Styles?
    Wikisocion - Romance Styles
    Wikisocion - Communication Styles
    Wikisocion - Romantic Behavior of Quadras and Subtypes
    (to view full tag searches you'll need to be logged in)
    "Romancing styles" tag search
    "Victim" tag search
    "Aggressor" tag search
    "Caring" tag search
    "Childlike" tag search


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    Comments 40 Comments
    1. Zero11's Avatar
      Zero11 -
      Dominants Assertor (previous Aggressor)
      Creatives Infantile,
      Normalising Devotee (previous Victim)
      Harmonising Caregivers
    1. Aylen's Avatar
      Aylen -
      @End how do you feel about the INTp description above?

      @Sol if you didn't understand what I meant by infantile (childlike).

      Victim

      The Victim types, identified as such by Viktor Gulenko, are the four types with Ni in their ego, two each in Beta and Gamma: EIE, IEI, LIE, and ILI.Despite the differences between these types in terms of temperament, base function, and quadra values, it seems that in the area of physical attraction, desire, and flirting, their Ni, coupled with their expectations of Se style behavior in intimate partners, is the most visible factor in a Victim's behavior.

      Typical characteristics of the Victim romance style


      • prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
      • not always confident about revealing that interest
      • inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
      • inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time
      • preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like
      • appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
      • this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"
      • inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself

      This romance style is defined by focus on Ni which is dynamic, irrational, and introverted, with perceptions of inner imagery away from the present physical reality. This means that a Victim sees attraction between two individuals as a dynamic state, which he feels is completely natural. This accounts for a Victim's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as to its longer-term perspectives and implications, as well as a certain expectation that the partner will continuously take action to confirm the attraction. Failure on the partner to do so results on the individual assuming that it's already changing. The individual counts on the partner to forcefully bring the individual "down to earth from his thoughts " and focus on the immediate physical reality, continuously.- See more at: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/r....7D8fAigi.dpuf


      Infantile

      The Infantile types, identified as such by Viktor Gulenko, are the four types with Ne in their ego, two each in Alpha and Delta: ILE, LII, IEE, and EII. Despite the differences between these types in terms of temperament, base function, and quadra values, it seems that in the area of physical attraction, desire, and flirting, their Ne, coupled with their expectations of Si style behavior in intimate partners, is the most visible factor in determining "infantile'" behavior.

      Typical characteristics of the Infantile romance style


      • interest is sparked in partner with positive aesthetic attributes divorced from active, "aggressive" sexuality
      • tend to try to attract partner's interest with joking, goofy or even "strange" behavior
      • try to help partner see the unexpected and fun side of things
      • interest is maintained or cools off according to partner's response to this behavior
      • appreciation for partner who actively cares about the individual's comfort and daily needs
      • neutral with regard to externally admitting who took the initiative in ending a relationship, "power" is seen as unimportant in such matters

      - See more at: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/r....7D8fAigi.dpuf
    1. Sol's Avatar
      Sol -
      "He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach.""

      To care - yes, but not to teach. To teach means relations of generally unequals, while everyone seeks support in relations not less than has the wish to care about partner.

      "Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable."

      Ne types have Si in values so they never prefer to live "outside of sexuality". It's important part of their life. Especially for ILE, IEE.

      another heretic poor article
    1. Beautiful sky's Avatar
      Beautiful sky -
      Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
      "He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach.""

      To care - yes, but not to teach. To teach means relations of generally unequals, while everyone seeks support in relations not less than has the wish to care about partner.

      "Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable."

      Ne types have Si in values so they never prefer to live "outside of sexuality". It's important part of their life. Especially for ILE, IEE.

      another heretic poor article
      This is accurate

      interest is sparked in partner with positive aesthetic attributes divorced from active, "aggressive" sexuality
      tend to try to attract partner's interest with joking, goofy or even "strange" behavior
      try to help partner see the unexpected and fun side of things
      interest is maintained or cools off according to partner's response to this behavior
      appreciation for partner who actively cares about the individual's comfort and daily needs
      neutral with regard to externally admitting who took the initiative in ending a relationship, "power" is seen as unimportant in such matters
    1. End's Avatar
      End -
      @Aylen. In regards to the article I don't much fault it. For me it really is about finding someone who doesn't "break" or otherwise run the hell away once I disclose my darkest desires. I'm sure this is the case for girls as well, but it comes from the opposite direction. Lots of dudes talk a good game, but if a real girl legit begged them to tie em' up and do hardcore kinky shit to em' I'm pretty sure a lot of them would run away because she's "crazy" or something.

      I mean fuck, life must suck for fully masochistic girls who also want decent, moral, and caring partners to lovingly dominate them and whisper how much they love them into their ear after a session of good hard love making. They're in dangerous territory to be honest. The people who are willing to give you what you want in this department can very easily just be taking advantage of you for their own benefit. Yet in the end they still want that and are willing to take the risk to get it. Being a "victim" type is complicated...
    1. Olimpia's Avatar
      Olimpia -
      It's a shame that this article has been rated so poorly.

      This theory is one of the most valuable ones in Socionics, imo.
    1. Chae's Avatar
      Chae -
      Beside the rapey - aggressor/victim - and pedophilic - caregiver/infantile - notions (pointing to a patriarchal basis of this writing), the idea is good. I prefer what Zero11 said above to establish equal means and not misinterpreting the dynamics into an egotistical power exchange; that's not what actual romance is.
    1. Skepsis's Avatar
      Skepsis -
      I think people have a mix of erotic attitudes. The purely this, this, this, or that, seems like a black and white way of thinking.
    1. Chae's Avatar
      Chae -
      Quote Originally Posted by Nate Chur View Post
      I think people have a mix of erotic attitudes. The purely this, this, this, or that, seems like a black and white way of thinking.
      LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!

      Yes yes yes and yes. Especially when tapping into other IEs under the influence of one's partner. Depending on your counterpart, functions are always activated differently anyways so this view can limit.
    1. Skepsis's Avatar
      Skepsis -
      Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
      LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!

      Yes yes yes and yes. Especially when tapping into other IEs under the influence of one's partner. Depending on your counterpart, functions are always activated differently anyways so this view can limit.
      Our brains are beautifully complex, dynamic, adaptable organs, are they not?
    1. Olimpia's Avatar
      Olimpia -
      Someone's subtype influences how much they may lean to the other fellow dynamic or static type.

      In that manner, all Aggressors have a Childlike side and vice versa, and all Victims have a Caretaker side and vice versa.

      How much this "comes out" or is present in the person depends on the subtype.
      (For example, SEE-Fi and SLE-Ti are a bit more Childlike, IEE-Fi and ILE-Ti are a bit more Aggressor, etc.)

      Still, the main style mostly prevails, and at the very least becomes apparent on a closer basis.

      Most people's romance style behaviour is unconscious, they do not act this way deliberately. Once you deliberately choose to act in a certain way, like acting more coy or aggressive because you get the impression the other person would like that more, you are not acting according to your natural romance style.
    1. Skepsis's Avatar
      Skepsis -
      They exist as only some, not all, which means they cannot be relied upon as conclusive evidence. Types are theoretical categories that apply to some, but not all people. There is varying degrees of truth in it for different people, depending on its descriptive accuracy.
    1. Chae's Avatar
      Chae -
      Quote Originally Posted by Nate Chur View Post
      Our brains are beautifully complex, dynamic, adaptable organs, are they not?
      Yes ;3; Wonderfully put.

    1. Tigerfadder's Avatar
      Tigerfadder -
      Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
      It's a shame that this article has been rated so poorly.

      This theory is one of the most valuable ones in Socionics, imo.
      Ya its awesome!
    1. Singu's Avatar
      Singu -
      This is a good example of a Victim attitude... lol:

      Into You - Ariana Grande

      Oh, baby, look what you started
      The temperature's rising in here
      Is this gonna happen?
      Been waiting and waiting for you to make a move
      (woo, oh, oh, oh)
      Before I make a move
      (woo, oh, oh, oh)

      [Chorus:]
      So, baby, come light me up, and maybe I'll let you on it
      A little bit dangerous, but, baby, that's how I want it
      A little less conversation and a little more "touch my body"
      'Cause I'm so into you, into you, into you
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ekZEVeXwek

      And I'd suppose the "a little less conversation" line from the Elvis' song is more Se:

      "A Little Less Conversation"

      A little less conversation, a little more action please
      All this aggravation ain't satisfactioning me
      A little more bite and a little less bark
      A little less fight and a little more spark
      Close your mouth and open up your heart and baby satisfy me
      Satisfy me baby

      Come on baby I'm tired of talking
      Grab your coat and let's start walking
      Come on, come on
      Come on, come on
      Come on, come on
      Don't procrastinate, don't articulate
      Girl it's getting late, gettin' upset waitin' around
    1. LuckyOne's Avatar
      LuckyOne -
      None of the styles fit me, so I can't take this seriously. I find that Enneagram plays a much bigger part than IMs.
    1. Akira's Avatar
      Akira -
      "Teachers: LSE (ESTj) SLI (ISTp)

      If I were to describe this type's approach to love, it would be "serious." He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach." This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension.He is looking for a worthy pupil."

      Now THAT makes sense and explains a lot.
      Like why my best friends are childlike types, or why it always seems like I've to "teach" stuff to my friends or my IEE, and why even being a caregiver I'm not "motherly" at all or even why I hate being a student. I'm actually a Teacher, which makes more sense. I really love sharing knowledge instead of "taking care" of others.
    1. LuckyOne's Avatar
      LuckyOne -
      In my case it's a mix of suposed opposites:
      Typical characteristics of the Aggressor romance style

      • no doubts about own interest in another person
      • not prone to hesitation about whether or not to reveal that interest
      • focus is more on own interest than whether or not the other person might reciprocate
      • romantic interaction is more about "toughness" than "tenderness"
      • needs to feel some sense of "superiority" over the partner, but worthwhile only if the partner is seen as able to largely "keep up"
      • this takes the form of power games, which others might regard as cruel or bitchy
      • in the case of female Aggressors with male partners, the above tends to assume the characteristic of a woman expecting total * devotion from the partner, rather than her being "bossy"
      • little inclination to externally admit not having been the one to end a relationship, unless if adopting a "who cares" front simultaneously

      This romance style is defined by focus on Se which is static, irrational, and extroverted. This means that an Aggressor sees attraction to another person as a static state, which he feels it is up to him to change in the direction more in agreement to his preference. This accounts for an Aggressor's inclination to take the initiative in approaching the object of his interest and being "relentless" in his pursuit, as well as, even during an established relationship, continuing to try to "shake things up" or "get things moving". If his partner is not receptive to such behavior, this discourages the Aggressor, and results in his interest cooling off.
      Bolded parts fits to a T the rest is really off.

      Typical characteristics of the Victim romance style

      • prone to initial doubts about intensity of own interest in another person
      • not always confident about revealing that interest
      • inclined to focus on whether or not the other person might reciprocate the interest
      • inclined to question whether or not the other person's interest will remain constant with time
      • preference for partners that provoke in the individual a certain sense of awe in terms of power, physical presence, and the like
      • appreciation for the sense of power-play present when interacting with such partners, with acceptance of a slight sense of superiority on the part of the partner, without ever actually "submitting" to them
      • this takes the form of the individual somewhat expecting the partner to be "mean" on occasion in the case of Victim males with female partners, this latter trait assumes a characteristic analogous to a "knight devoted to his princess"
      • inclination to openly admit to a relationship having been ended by the partner rather than by the individual himself

      This romance style is defined by focus on Ni which is dynamic, irrational, and introverted, with perceptions of inner imagery away from the present physical reality. This means that a Victim sees attraction between two individuals as a dynamic state, which he feels is completely natural. This accounts for a Victim's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as to its longer-term perspectives and implications, as well as a certain expectation that the partner will continuously take action to confirm the attraction. Failure on the partner to do so results on the individual assuming that it's already changing. The individual counts on the partner to forcefully bring the individual "down to earth from his thoughts " and focus on the immediate physical reality, continuously.
      Bolded parts are spot on and would complement the ones in the Aggressor type.
    1. Chae's Avatar
      Chae -
      Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
      "Teachers: LSE (ESTj) SLI (ISTp)

      If I were to describe this type's approach to love, it would be "serious." He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach." This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension.He is looking for a worthy pupil."

      Now THAT makes sense and explains a lot.
      Like why my best friends are childlike types, or why it always seems like I've to "teach" stuff to my friends or my IEE, and why even being a caregiver I'm not "motherly" at all or even why I hate being a student. I'm actually a Teacher, which makes more sense. I really love sharing knowledge instead of "taking care" of others.
      Ohooohoo I find that interesting and like it It works out best when the Ne type has some enneagram 6/9 influence so they would accept the guidance. E1 EII and E7 IEE are more difficult here.

      Delta is about knowledge exchange anyway so the true dynamic of Si/Ne is rooted in Alpha. Taking care is cool when it comes from a cognitive perspective since what you think, you become. If someone doesn't pamper me but explains how I can take care of myself, I find that far more useful and rewarding for both. If I'm just being taken care of, how exploitative is that. It makes more sense to have no inferior Ne - superior Si perspective on this.
    1. Chae's Avatar
      Chae -
      Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
      In my case it's a mix of suposed opposites:


      Bolded parts fits to a T the rest is really off.

      Bolded parts are spot on and would complement the ones in the Aggressor type.
      Your case is super difficult 8 SX naturally assumes those qualities so it's hard to distinguish. The question is, what's the information that you accept more: force or time estimation? Enneagram is all about the innate drive but the styles here actually describe what type of IE use is supposed to turn you the fuck on If you're EIE you might overestimate the Se part within the equation, if you're Se base then your attraction to would actually be obvious here.