Help me type my sister

Cheesy · 08-21-2009, 07:18 AM

I find myself inconclusive about her type. The one thing I'm sure of is that she's sensing and rational. No intuition whatsoever..

For the most part, we don't get along.. I suspected her to be ESI, LSE and any other sensing type but those two are my main candidates, with LSI as a plausible option. The thing is that I'm not sure if she actually values Te/Fi. At some point I thought she was Fe seeking but my reasons were quite shallow.. She loves smiley people who are warm and inviting and dislikes atmospheres that are not visibly happy and cheerful. Those were my main reasons for thinking she's Ti/Fe.

I always thought she was Gamma because I could easily see her as having extraverted sensing as a creative function and she tends to be very morally preachy.. very. And really critical of everything, from aesthetics to lack of morality in other people's actions. I made her take socionics tests and MBTI test and she comes out as ST.. But I always get a strong judgmental vibe from her as far as critiquing if others are tactful and cordial, she loves people who have great social skills and critiques those who might be awkward in social settings and don't quite know how to behave and what to say, it's a real turn off for her. I'm much less judgmental towards these things because to me it seems unfair to judge a person on how well they handle a social situation, it doesn't matter to me at all as long as they are respectful.

She's very strong willed and persistent in everything she does. She wants a partner who will take care of her when she's sick but insists that she doesn't want a dorky guy. She likes to present herself as a cool groovy person, when all I see in her is a judgmental witch..

So, this was partly me ranting but if you have any questions feel free to ask

The Greeter · 08-21-2009, 07:29 AM

Considering everything you said and your rather negative description of your sister, which I think is very much a conflictor's perspective, I'm inclined to say she is LSI.

Cheesy · 08-21-2009, 09:09 AM

I'm very effected by my current feelings for her. I'm defiantly judgmental and assume that some of it is what I learnt from watching her wanting her to accept me and think that I'm as strong as she is. As a little girl, her judgment was interpreted by me as strength which is the exact opposite..

When we're getting along, which happens when we're not spending too much time together, I admire her for being good at what I'm not - she's indeed very strong willed in the way she persists at things even if she doesn't find them interesting, which is something that is somewhat impossible for me to do. Also having a tendency to sound "right" all the time, coming off very certain of what she says..

What I mean by no intuition is that she's scared of anything unfamiliar and foreign to her. Likes to go by with what she knows unless she would be considered not cool for not trying something new. Not imaginative in the least. For her, people are their actions, there's no unseen potential, what matters is what is already there. It makes her even less forgiving of people's actions. She wants to be considered as a practical down to earth person not too occupied with worldly affairs, she indeed does not think about more abstract concepts and sticks to day to day affairs. I know there are plenty of LSIs and ESIs who do have abstract interests but her wanting to stick to what she knows and not open up her mind seems like something these types tend to do.

What I mean with the warm and inviting people is what she considers warm and inviting.. People who are overtly smiley and emotionally expressive tend to be a turn off for me.. You might be right about it being irrelevant to type. Though I tend to think Te/Fi valuers are not as attracted to that kind of friendliness as Ti/Fe valuers are.

People recognize her to be very opinionated and stubbornly sticking by her opinions no matter what. She has other sides of course but that's what sticks out for me because that's the kind of interaction we get sucked into.

Rubicon · 08-21-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesy

She likes to present herself as a cool groovy person, when all I see in her is a judgmental witch..

lol sisterly love

She sounds ESI-ish to me.

Marie84 · 08-21-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Greeter

Considering everything you said and your rather negative description of your sister, which I think is very much a conflictor's perspective, I'm inclined to say she is LSI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

Who doesn't like warm and inviting people?

Me!
I prefer reserved and polite Te>Fe

Mariella · 08-21-2009, 05:17 PM

She does sound potentially Beta ST.

I think if you learn something from Socionics, it would help you to learn that all of these traits we see have two sides. "Critical of everything" is also "demanding of excellence." What you see as a bad trait is a good trait to someone else. She's judgmental of things you value, and you in turn are judgmental of things she values (I can see very strong judgment in your post), and I bet she'd have an interesting description of you if she were here.

She isn't wrong and you aren't right - the two of you are just different.

Anyway, caring about how tactful people are is generally about valuing Fe. When you say she prefers to be around warm and inviting people, that might mean she wants to be around people with strong Fe, although as said many people like to be around warm and inviting people so that's a pretty weak typing point. Persistent and strong willed sounds like Se to me, as does "demanding of excellence." And if she tested as ST, I'd give at least some margin of likelihood to that.

Cheesy · 08-21-2009, 06:48 PM

It does make sense. And as for the whole judgment thing, it's what my family does best. I believe that on my part it was very much a learning experience. When you grow up around people who are very strong in their judgments a good way for you to stand up for yourself is to counter attack them with equally strong judgment. My critical edge was very much learned as a defense method and worked out for me in short term. I have some work to do to change that.

As far as her type, if Beta ST then she's definitely LSI.. I'm still thinking about ESI but some things are just inconclusive.

I don't think that I'm right/wrong about her, in fact, I think that judgment is merely your own perspective of things derived from your individual experience and who you are, it's hardly objective.

Pied Piper · 08-22-2009, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

Possibly Fe-valuing. She appriciates good ambients.

I think she talks about something like those "positive thinking", "personal growth", "how to be successful" and other Gamma conferences which rule out people without large smiles.

That's not Fe, but probably faking Fe. I'll find something on youtube.

Pied Piper · 08-22-2009, 03:43 AM

Right, I found exactly what I was looking for, the terms are so nonsense for me that I had to search a lot to find this. Enjoy.

YouTube - The Psychology of Winning - Part 1

Edit: Gamma type of conference, but I think the guy on the left is Beta and the woman is LSE. Listen to their speeches.

Pied Piper · 08-22-2009, 03:59 AM

I think some differences between Beta and Gamma rationals in these matters are:
Beta:
- take a model
- be excited, watch beautiful things
- power of emotion, excitement, passion, anger and love
Gamma:
- steps to follow, "how-to"s
- ignore the hardship, pretend that there's nothing wrong
- power of will, drive, motivation, aiming high

Marie84 · 08-22-2009, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

Does your preference for Te>Fe mean you don't like warm and inviting people?

I don't dislike the people (usually) but I'm not a fan of that temperament, as in what Cheesy described

"She loves smiley people who are warm and inviting and dislikes atmospheres that are not visibly happy and cheerful."

Which is not inviting, to me, it's more annoying

Pied Piper · 08-22-2009, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie84

Which is not inviting, to me, it's more annoying

What annoys you most between these:
"I feel I'm good"
"I feel I'm gifted"

Pied Piper · 08-22-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

And hilariously entertaining to watch as long as you don't have to interact with those guys.

Yeah, it is pretty funny, I watched all the videos and I can say it's cool. Just that, of course, their course is only a pretext to hear some new ideas, but not "develop myself"

. Both the LIE and LSE were pretty fun, I liked especially that part with boring on vacations, that actually happens to me, too, but for different (geek) reasons

.

Cheesy · 08-22-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

I just tried to point out that Cheesy's description means next to nothing when it comes to typing, as "inviting" and "warm" is subjective. Deltas are often "warm and inviting", imo.

I don't know what kind of an atmosphere Cheesy describes, nor do I understand what atmosphere you are thinking of. And if you say "which is not inviting, to me", you make no sense, as my comment was "Who doesn't like warm and inviting people?". Or maybe you prefer "cold" and "hostile" people?

See, that's where I think you're wrong. Each person can find something different to be warm and inviting, I for one like a sincere look in the eyes and people who are not grandiose in their emotional expressions. While you might find big smiles and laughs to be warm and inviting, to me it's just over the top and can come off as insincere especially if I'm not familiar with the person.

If you read the rest of my posts I explained what I meant..
You know when you go to a shop, restaurant, to your hairdresser or whatever, what do find inviting? My sister loves someone who chats her up and is very expressive and exudes a lot of positive feelings, while this is nice, my reaction is to run out the door.. Why? Because we find different things to be appealing. I don't like people who act that way in general because their behavior reminds me of a salesperson trying to schmooze me into buying something.

Pied Piper · 08-22-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesy

If you read the rest of my posts I explained what I meant..

I think she could not guess from the posts. A Gamma could guess even less, imo.

Cheesy · 08-22-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

That was my exact point..... That you telling that she likes warm and inviting people means nothing, as "warm and inviting" is subjective.

What you just said - to give a sincere look in the eyes - is a typical expression of

From Rick's site:

No. Cause Fe is, if anything, about expressing your emotions sincerely.

Your bias is not helpful for typing, as I don't recognize your descriptions. I doubt anyone can stand people with fake smiles wanting you to look all happy, like the gamma/delta people in the video Pinocchio posted. It certainly has nothing to do with Fe.

This example tells a lot more than what you said before.

However, I don't particularly like chatty people either, and I normally don't speak much with my hairdresser or in shops. I CAN do it, but I definitely prefer to be the one deciding if such interaction takes place or not, depending on my moods, as those people are there to serve me, and not the opposite way around. "Bla-bla-bla about nothing" is more annoying and stressful than anything. And anyways, this has nothing to do with Fe.

Fe is NOT about being "everybody in the same mood as a group", it's NOT about laughing loudly, it's NOT about talking nonsense. Fe is a function that monitors the world and people's reactions a bit like seismometers monitor seismic waves. And the waves/reactions are constantly changing. This allows a Fe person to respond in a manner that the other person likes. So if a person chats with you despite you not liking it, it is a sign of WEAK Fe, not strong Fe.

The most chatty people I know, are all LSEs, and they f**** don't know when to stop, even if you desperately try to get away from them (= weak Fe). :tongue: But to be chatty, probably isn't type related (probably extraverts talk more than introverts....) and to have huge smiles, isn't type related either.

Here's an LSE, for you (notice huge smile):

And here's an EIE, for you (notice the not so huge smile):

(Source socioniko.net)

So, to conclude: I just wanted to point out that your information wasn't type specific.

God these people creep me out but yeah, it's not about that. I guess the whole emotional expressiveness is something that's associated with Fe, it's a part of the give and take that's needed for it to work. If Fe doesn't get any signals of one's emotional state it can't respond accordingly and can't "read" the person and that's why Fe is somewhat associated with smiles and such although it's the tip of the iceberg.
I hate it when someone's constantly analyzing my mood by my expressions. It's Fe gone bad..

I did suspect my sister was LSE but I feel she fits Se so well that I have a hard time seeing her as an Si valuer. She often mocks those who indulge in sensorial pleasures on a regular basis. On an outside look she could definitely seem LSE.. She came out LSE in one test so I let her read the description on wiki and she said it fit her word to word.. I didn't take it too seriously though.

Mariella · 08-22-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesy

I did suspect my sister was LSE but I feel she fits Se so well that I have a hard time seeing her as an Si valuer. She often mocks those who indulge in sensorial pleasures on a regular basis. On an outside look she could definitely seem LSE.. She came out LSE in one test so I let her read the description on wiki and she said it fit her word to word.. I didn't take it too seriously though.

The 8th function is a strong function. That's why SEEs and IEEs have strong Fe, and why LSEs and ESEs have strong Se. A lot of mistypings center around, "He has strong Se so he must be . . . ". If the Se is stronger than the corresponding function (ie Si), that points to something. If someone shows that he/she strongly values Se and expects it from others, that points to something. But simply displaying strong use of a function isn't enough. Except to make some types you probably weren't considering anyway (like EII) unlikely.

And it's true that people with strong Fe generally can read how they're coming across to people and therefore generally know when to stop. If they care to stop, that is.

Pied Piper · 08-23-2009, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

However, I don't particularly like chatty people either, and I normally don't speak much with my hairdresser or in shops. I CAN do it, but I definitely prefer to be the one deciding if such interaction takes place or not, depending on my moods, as those people are there to serve me, and not the opposite way around. "Bla-bla-bla about nothing" is more annoying and stressful than anything.

Yesterday, when the postman brought me my new laptop and I was verifying the integrity of the product, we began to chat and in the end I began convincing him to give Linux another try

. Because he said he never could use it although he had to, where he worked. It was nothing forced, I believe he was a Fe valuer, too, because nothing was forced, but each was somehow excited to add about something the other was saying. Of course, my gf being Fe involved in, adding what I use to forget.

We were shouting while going apart, until a certain distance, that's how, let's say, 'hard' the separation was - I noticed he's a nice guy since we talked on the phone, because I was not prepared with cash and told him to meet next to the bank.

Marie84 · 08-23-2009, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

I just tried to point out that Cheesy's description means next to nothing when it comes to typing, as "inviting" and "warm" is subjective. Deltas are often "warm and inviting", imo.

I don't know what kind of an atmosphere Cheesy describes, nor do I understand what atmosphere you are thinking of. And if you say "which is not inviting, to me", you make no sense, as my comment was "Who doesn't like warm and inviting people?". Or maybe you prefer "cold" and "hostile" people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesy

See, that's where I think you're wrong. Each person can find something different to be warm and inviting, I for one like a sincere look in the eyes and people who are not grandiose in their emotional expressions. While you might find big smiles and laughs to be warm and inviting, to me it's just over the top and can come off as insincere especially if I'm not familiar with the person.

If you read the rest of my posts I explained what I meant..
You know when you go to a shop, restaurant, to your hairdresser or whatever, what do find inviting? My sister loves someone who chats her up and is very expressive and exudes a lot of positive feelings, while this is nice, my reaction is to run out the door.. Why? Because we find different things to be appealing. I don't like people who act that way in general because their behavior reminds me of a salesperson trying to schmooze me into buying something.

This^
It does come across as rather insincere and manipulative to me, especially if that person is a stranger, it feels even more fake because they have no attachment to you yet their behavior is intrusive.
I know that their intentions are generally not to be so, but it's still bothersome, especially if you don't react to what they're saying/doing than you're accused of being negative/moody/grumpy/snobby/cold, etc

In terms of what I like, it's polite and respectful, as in, not intruding on other peoples "space"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica

No. Cause Fe is, if anything, about expressing your emotions sincerely.

Not to Fi/Te quadras

Quote:

This allows a Fe person to respond in a manner that the other person likes.

If that other person is Ti/Fe

It's not that they're certain types that are better than others, it's just that people have different preferences, and that includes communication. What is welcoming and comforting to you is obviously not going to ring true for me

And I do agree that Fe is not about just the intense emotions, but it is about focusing on the surface, looking for positive or negative emotions, and to Fi/Te types that does seem rather shallow

crazedratXII · 08-23-2009, 09:57 AM

you are INFj, correct? If so it is unlikely she is ESTj. much more likely she is ISTj. XSTj sounds like a good guess. She doesn't sound ISFj, but I suppose it's possible. Though you said she took the test and scored ST? Better to trust that, you seem really confused. Try looking at VI of ISTjs and seeing if she looks like them. Also post some pictures on here if possible. And state what your type is again

08-21-2009, 07:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
Cheesy Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 177	Help me type my sister I find myself inconclusive about her type. The one thing I'm sure of is that she's sensing and rational. No intuition whatsoever.. For the most part, we don't get along.. I suspected her to be ESI, LSE and any other sensing type but those two are my main candidates, with LSI as a plausible option. The thing is that I'm not sure if she actually values Te/Fi. At some point I thought she was Fe seeking but my reasons were quite shallow.. She loves smiley people who are warm and inviting and dislikes atmospheres that are not visibly happy and cheerful. Those were my main reasons for thinking she's Ti/Fe. I always thought she was Gamma because I could easily see her as having extraverted sensing as a creative function and she tends to be very morally preachy.. very. And really critical of everything, from aesthetics to lack of morality in other people's actions. I made her take socionics tests and MBTI test and she comes out as ST.. But I always get a strong judgmental vibe from her as far as critiquing if others are tactful and cordial, she loves people who have great social skills and critiques those who might be awkward in social settings and don't quite know how to behave and what to say, it's a real turn off for her. I'm much less judgmental towards these things because to me it seems unfair to judge a person on how well they handle a social situation, it doesn't matter to me at all as long as they are respectful. She's very strong willed and persistent in everything she does. She wants a partner who will take care of her when she's sick but insists that she doesn't want a dorky guy. She likes to present herself as a cool groovy person, when all I see in her is a judgmental witch.. So, this was partly me ranting but if you have any questions feel free to ask

08-21-2009, 07:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
The Greeter Member Senior Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 528	Considering everything you said and your rather negative description of your sister, which I think is very much a conflictor's perspective, I'm inclined to say she is LSI. __________________ Ceci n'est pas une eii.

08-22-2009, 03:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
Pied Piper Inexorable Tunes Join Date: May 2007 Location: Brain Sociotype: ILE Posts: 4,958	I think some differences between Beta and Gamma rationals in these matters are: Beta: - take a model - be excited, watch beautiful things - power of emotion, excitement, passion, anger and love Gamma: - steps to follow, "how-to"s - ignore the hardship, pretend that there's nothing wrong - power of will, drive, motivation, aiming high __________________ "No trifling! I can't wait, beside! ... With him I proved no bargain-driver, With you, don't think I'll bait a stiver! And folks who put me in a passion May find me pipe to another fashion." Last edited by Pied Piper; 08-22-2009 at 04:15 AM.

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08-21-2009, 09:09 AM	#3 (permalink)
Cheesy Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 177	I'm very effected by my current feelings for her. I'm defiantly judgmental and assume that some of it is what I learnt from watching her wanting her to accept me and think that I'm as strong as she is. As a little girl, her judgment was interpreted by me as strength which is the exact opposite.. When we're getting along, which happens when we're not spending too much time together, I admire her for being good at what I'm not - she's indeed very strong willed in the way she persists at things even if she doesn't find them interesting, which is something that is somewhat impossible for me to do. Also having a tendency to sound "right" all the time, coming off very certain of what she says.. What I mean by no intuition is that she's scared of anything unfamiliar and foreign to her. Likes to go by with what she knows unless she would be considered not cool for not trying something new. Not imaginative in the least. For her, people are their actions, there's no unseen potential, what matters is what is already there. It makes her even less forgiving of people's actions. She wants to be considered as a practical down to earth person not too occupied with worldly affairs, she indeed does not think about more abstract concepts and sticks to day to day affairs. I know there are plenty of LSIs and ESIs who do have abstract interests but her wanting to stick to what she knows and not open up her mind seems like something these types tend to do. What I mean with the warm and inviting people is what she considers warm and inviting.. People who are overtly smiley and emotionally expressive tend to be a turn off for me.. You might be right about it being irrelevant to type. Though I tend to think Te/Fi valuers are not as attracted to that kind of friendliness as Ti/Fe valuers are. People recognize her to be very opinionated and stubbornly sticking by her opinions no matter what. She has other sides of course but that's what sticks out for me because that's the kind of interaction we get sucked into.

08-21-2009, 05:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mariella Forum Addict Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 6,926 Blog Entries: 2	She does sound potentially Beta ST. I think if you learn something from Socionics, it would help you to learn that all of these traits we see have two sides. "Critical of everything" is also "demanding of excellence." What you see as a bad trait is a good trait to someone else. She's judgmental of things you value, and you in turn are judgmental of things she values (I can see very strong judgment in your post), and I bet she'd have an interesting description of you if she were here. She isn't wrong and you aren't right - the two of you are just different. Anyway, caring about how tactful people are is generally about valuing Fe. When you say she prefers to be around warm and inviting people, that might mean she wants to be around people with strong Fe, although as said many people like to be around warm and inviting people so that's a pretty weak typing point. Persistent and strong willed sounds like Se to me, as does "demanding of excellence." And if she tested as ST, I'd give at least some margin of likelihood to that.

08-21-2009, 06:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cheesy Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 177	It does make sense. And as for the whole judgment thing, it's what my family does best. I believe that on my part it was very much a learning experience. When you grow up around people who are very strong in their judgments a good way for you to stand up for yourself is to counter attack them with equally strong judgment. My critical edge was very much learned as a defense method and worked out for me in short term. I have some work to do to change that. As far as her type, if Beta ST then she's definitely LSI.. I'm still thinking about ESI but some things are just inconclusive. I don't think that I'm right/wrong about her, in fact, I think that judgment is merely your own perspective of things derived from your individual experience and who you are, it's hardly objective.

08-23-2009, 09:57 AM	#20 (permalink)
crazedratXII Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: alaska Posts: 2,522	you are INFj, correct? If so it is unlikely she is ESTj. much more likely she is ISTj. XSTj sounds like a good guess. She doesn't sound ISFj, but I suppose it's possible. Though you said she took the test and scored ST? Better to trust that, you seem really confused. Try looking at VI of ISTjs and seeing if she looks like them. Also post some pictures on here if possible. And state what your type is again