What are you?
Humans are souls.
Humans are bodies, sensations.
Humans are feelings.
Humans are thoughts, ideas.
Humans are brains.
Humans are intents and choices.
Humans are both body and soul.
Humans are actions.
Humans are all of these answers.
Humans are none of these answrers. ---
So many contradictive ways of viewing what humans are...
When you think of yourself, what do you see yourself as? A body, a soul, ideas, feelings, etc...
Do you think this self-vision can be related to type?
Right now I'm chilly. My metabolic rate is dropping for the day. Time to go out and exercise.
I view humans at the most basic level as machines fine tuned by evolution to replicate and self-preserve, with near endless complexities stemming from fulfilling those basic needs.
Just someone your mother loves intimately.
We are souls, trapped in bodies, which allow us to experience sensation and manifest our intents by our actions and choices.
I am matter that is self-referential. Greetings.
Technically speaking, we can never know what we are or what anything else is. How can we be sure of anything?
But I like to think that I know sometimes. I think I do. Any statement about what I am naturally will always exclude something that I am, so I can never say what I am even though I might know -- or might not. Even if I say what I am, the words get filtered through someone else's mind. They can't understand it. So it doesn't matter if I say anything, because I will never really be heard. Other people will take their brains and look at the words and decide who I am based on who they are. They will do this and think they know who I am.
We all pretend to communicate with each other, but this is all just mutual hypnosis.
I'll say a few things.
1. I am a male.
2. I am an American.
3. I was born in the Bible belt, but I am not a Christian.
4. I still have issues with Christian beliefs rising into my mind from time to time. This is often disconcerting. Gotta love childhood conditioning, eh?
5. I am technically an amoralist, but I still judge the behavior of others according to my own standards--which standards might not necessarily apply to me. That is to say that I judge others by their effect on me and not necessarily by any principle.
6. I am sometimes a doormat and sometimes an asshole. More frequently, I'm the former. I'm only an asshole according to other people, though. I can fully understand and accept myself as a doormat.
7. I am not a scientist, but I like science sometimes if it suits me.
8. I use logic when it suits me, which is to say I'm not really logical at all. Sometimes I get the right answer though.
9. I am often really really really tired. And at the end of the month, often hungry.
10. I sometimes imagine myself having a boyfriend. At other times, I imagine myself rich, alone, and in my own McMansion, as comfortable as possible. I imagine having the best food I can possibly eat.
11. I find myself incapable of developing career goals. Ideally, I could survive and live well without doing much of anything at all. Ideally isn't reality, though.
12. I realize I'm not attractive physically, but I still look for partners who are probably much more attractive than I am.
13. I tell myself that I would like to have a boyfriend or friends sometimes. I tell myself that the reason why I don't have any IRL on a regular basis is just that most people are dumb, have different interests and tastes, or some other reason.
14. I realize that life is probably just a game of chance, but I still like to think it's not -- sometimes. I sometimes like to think it's a game of chance I can win.
15. Sometimes I tell myself that the most horrible things will happen, and that perhaps, by some act of magical thinking, I'll get the exact opposite.
16. At various points in my life, I have thought to myself that I wanted to be a meteorologist, a writer, a computer programmer, a professor, or some solitary minimum wage thing that wouldn't have to deal with other people, a forester, and other stuff.
17. So far, all I've done is succeeded in getting a college degree that makes sense based on my history. I read then, and I read now. Right now, I read about fairy tales. I haven't done it much in the past few days, though, because I've been tired or other reasons.
18. I am the product of a family that would be stereotypically considered "dysfunctional." I don't like the idea of families, and I don't want one.
19. No kids. Not now, not ever.
20. Animals are nice, but not as pets. I have seen enough dirt in houses -- among other things.
21. It would be nice to win the lottery.
22. I am not really willing to change. If I can re-arrange life so that I can live better though, I will. And if I can discover more about myself, which could be the act of self-creation, that would be nice.
23. I can't tell the future. I had some big dreams a long time ago, and I've only managed to fulfill one of them. That was going to college. Now that that is done, it doesn't seem like much.
24. I thought college would be a gateway to freedom and happiness. I learned a lot, and I'm more confident now than before, and perhaps I don't feel quite as trapped as I used to, but I'm right back where I started physically. Except I'm more tired than I was then.
25. I am not that afraid of spiders, but I will kill the big ones. And sometimes the little ones too.
26. If I had to pick a motherfucking career, I'd rather be an author. Notice I said author and not writer. I'd rather write my own bullshit, not someone else's. Of all the careers, it seems like the best, because I can do it by myself without ever entering an office building or doing manual labor.
27. I'm a lot better at noticing the Socionics types of others than I am my own. Some would take that and say, "He doesn't really know Socionics." Oh well. A couple years down the line, and I still don't know what it is. I might never know. So far, no one has managed to convince me, including myself.
28. In my experience, the ones who look at least as good as I do have a chance of being at least as intelligent as I am. Anyone who looks about my level of good looks is probably 10 times dumber. Less than that, 100 times dumber. Good looks don't equal intelligence, though.
29. I've never met a "mental health professional" I liked.
Last edited by Aramas; 11-11-2018 at 05:52 PM.
Truly connected to mother earth, listening its every heartbeat and living and breathing in sync with it. Isn't it obvious?
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I agree with Aramas, I actually told the same things to an IEI a week ago. This is strange, maybe it is about HP cognition.Originally Posted by Aramas
If there was only one color and there wasn't any shade, then there would be no color. Imagine a red room with red objects (without any shade). Everything would appear red. So if everything was red, we wouldn't be aware of the color red, we wouldn't define it and we wouldn't even came up with a concept called color. In order to define and be aware of one, the other must exist. If I was the only thing that exists, I couldn't define what I am. We define ourselves compared to others. I can't be short or long, if everything is at the same height. In order to perceive and define others and ourselves, we use our filters. So we can't see what it is, what we are, what they are. We only see a filtered image of it, us, them. When we talk about it, the other person filters our filtered code in order to perceive and define things. I don't think true communication exists. First, I don't see it as what it is, second, I don't define it as I perceive it. The other people don't perceive my definitions as they are and they don't define their perception as it is.
I sometimes think that the core of my being exists when there is no other and filter. Therefore, I can't perceive and define it accurately at the moment. That is not something to be defined and perceived, the core of my being can only be. I sometimes think that I am nothing but my filters.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...-idUSKCN1M01U1
It's more about mental sanitation.
I never met any mental health professional I liked. Those are all dead now. And they weren't professionals in the traditional way, except maybe for one of them.
So you think I'm HP? Imo, I've just read some New Falcon books. I could be HP, though, maybe.
I think each individual human has an essential identity apart from external conditioning. Accessing this identity, though, is often difficult for many if not most. That's why it's often associated with transcendental experiences. This might or might not be the case. It's just fun to think about. It's also fun to think about having no essential nature, because then you can just make yourself whatever. I believe what I like.
Last edited by Aramas; 11-11-2018 at 08:39 PM.
Yes, you seem to have holographic-panoramic cognition and I don't think that because of your New Falcon book, I think that because of your posts. Just a side note: I am still studying cognition styles, I am collecting data at the moment so my judgements aren't final.
That's cool. I'm not judging. I'm just curious.
*Beep beep* Collecting data....
I kind of see what you mean though. The syntax of my posts tends to be highly structured. That's characteristic of HP, or maybe just people who know Standard English. Either way, I've noticed that feeling of square structure in other people who are supposedly HP, especially in their writing.
A good word for it is "monolithic." I'm not sure why. It's just big, unwieldy, and changes sometimes suddenly and discontinuously. The HP style creates new constellations.
I haven't read most of your posts, but the ones I read made me think that you focus on overall system instead of its parts. That's why I thought that you probably have hp cognition style.
Lol why @me tho
Radical.
#subtypetheory
It's an interesting idea. But I don't think it's entirely accurate. People have tendencies. All the little desires and motives and whims go in certain general vectors that lead one to have a stable character. But he was right when he said man is very prone to succumbing to external influences, and that it's really hard to develop a self that does not. I haven't finished reading Gurdjieff, but it seems like RAW and maybe Leary followed his pattern and saw the seventh man as a formless meta-self whose attributes are abstract principles that can be invoked into manifestation in the lower centers of thought feeling and sensation. Seems pretty legit to me.
What I found most interesting by reading Gurdjieff through Ouspensky is that he mentioned examples of people who had obtained the seventh man without necessarily involving themselves in mysticism or spiritual practice. I'm speaking specifically about the highwayman. So it's possible to achieve this goal without necessarily being spiritual or mystical. It's really just about the struggle against oneself. The essential message is that if you want to have a self, the way is through dogged persistence and refusal to give in even when things are tough. You can only have a self if you are willing to die for it.
Last edited by Aramas; 11-12-2018 at 09:38 AM.
I liked @Aramas post the best... I think 'what a human is', is a billion little specific things like that. Soul/body/mind is way too vague. I wanted to reply to what he said tho. Cuz I couldn't get to sleep tonight.
1. I am a male. Same.
2. I am an American. Same.
3. I was born in the Bible belt, but I am not a Christian. I was born in the mid-west, which is like... half-bible belt. They are trapped in the middle between accepting gays fully and punching us in our ****** faces. Western/Northern MI is a lot more Bible Belt-y, and I live in the more liberal area tho but I've lived in both areas.
4. I still have issues with Christian beliefs rising into my mind from time to time. This is often disconcerting. Gotta love childhood conditioning, eh? Haha idk, reality has too much sadness/negativity and intense cruelty for me to believe in a God... I just can't put on a plastic happy face like my ESE mom idk, although still- that's probably how I came across to LIEs?
5. I am technically an amoralist, but I still judge the behavior of others according to my own standards--which standards might not necessarily apply to me. That is to say that I judge others by their effect on me and not necessarily by any principle. Hmm. I just have way more respect for people who are evil and know it - rather than people who think they are good when they are the most evil of all. Genuinely sweet/innocent people (that aren't children) are very rare IME.
6. I am sometimes a doormat and sometimes an asshole. More frequently, I'm the former. I'm only an asshole according to other people, though. I can fully understand and accept myself as a doormat. Haha hey, I think you can be a good asshole sometimes. You have the 'Gamma bite.' =D
7. I am not a scientist, but I like science sometimes if it suits me. I was very good at science in school, but I was much more focused on typical IEI stuff like romances/fantasy adventures/daydreaming etc.
8. I use logic when it suits me, which is to say I'm not really logical at all. Sometimes I get the right answer though. Everybody is like this, only shady people lie and say it's otherwise. Everybody only uses logic to suit their own agenda. People who pretend they are selfless = the people most corrupt.
9. I am often really really really tired. And at the end of the month, often hungry. Hey, me too. Fag energy? =(
10. I sometimes imagine myself having a boyfriend. At other times, I imagine myself rich, alone, and in my own McMansion, as comfortable as possible. I imagine having the best food I can possibly eat. Most likely I'll be alone... and poor lol. But still surviving.
11. I find myself incapable of developing career goals. Ideally, I could survive and live well without doing much of anything at all. Ideally isn't reality, though. I have my 'dream job' but I have this deep, deep belief that it will stop being so meaningful to me if I was paid for it, so I don't ever pursue it. I guess that's very backwards and self-defeating and all that- but hey, I do have Te polr. =p I'd rather find something I can be 100% neutral about.
12. I realize I'm not attractive physically, but I still look for partners who are probably much more attractive than I am. Well, if I'm compatible with somebody even objectively average guys can be really hot to me- but I could never be with somebody completely hideous.
13. I tell myself that I would like to have a boyfriend or friends sometimes. I tell myself that the reason why I don't have any IRL on a regular basis is just that most people are dumb, have different interests and tastes, or some other reason. Yeah...
14. I realize that life is probably just a game of chance, but I still like to think it's not -- sometimes. I sometimes like to think it's a game of chance I can win. ime, you mostly 'win at life' by telling the lowest-common denominator people what they want to hear. (I wish the answer was idk... better than this, but it's really not.) Personal skill and hardwork mean nothing compared to people manipulation skill sadly.
15. Sometimes I tell myself that the most horrible things will happen, and that perhaps, by some act of magical thinking, I'll get the exact opposite. The most horrible & sad thing *does* always happen because that's life and the harsh gritty real world. We still magically think something else will happen anyway, cuz it's only human. <3 And in this strange way, we win against the negativity.
16. At various points in my life, I have thought to myself that I wanted to be a meteorologist, a writer, a computer programmer, a professor, or some solitary minimum wage thing that wouldn't have to deal with other people, a forester, and other stuff. lmao @ minimum wage comment. Yeah I always wanted to be a writer or artist.
17. So far, all I've done is succeeded in getting a college degree that makes sense based on my history. I read then, and I read now. Right now, I read about fairy tales. I haven't done it much in the past few days, though, because I've been tired or other reasons.
18. I am the product of a family that would be stereotypically considered "dysfunctional." I don't like the idea of families, and I don't want one. Interesting. I've wondered about the push for gay men to be more like low IQ suburban dumb-asses. If that's what being accepted is... count me out.
19. No kids. Not now, not ever. Agreed. Kids are for breeders. Tho I still have the urge from time to time to make a mini-me. I'm a little straight. =(
20. Animals are nice, but not as pets. I have seen enough dirt in houses -- among other things. I like pets but can't afford one right now.
21. It would be nice to win the lottery. Yeah definitely, although you have like a ten times more likely chance to die in a terrorist attack than win it. /debbie downer music plays.
22. I am not really willing to change. If I can re-arrange life so that I can live better though, I will. And if I can discover more about myself, which could be the act of self-creation, that would be nice. Hehe this is Ni > Ne valuing to me.
23. I can't tell the future. I had some big dreams a long time ago, and I've only managed to fulfill one of them. That was going to college. Now that that is done, it doesn't seem like much. College is an Illuminati Trap really... for most people these days.
24. I thought college would be a gateway to freedom and happiness. I learned a lot, and I'm more confident now than before, and perhaps I don't feel quite as trapped as I used to, but I'm right back where I started physically. Except I'm more tired than I was then.
25. I am not that afraid of spiders, but I will kill the big ones. And sometimes the little ones too. You kill big spiders? My manly hero. <3 I can only kill the little ones.
26. If I had to pick a motherfucking career, I'd rather be an author. Notice I said author and not writer. I'd rather write my own bullshit, not someone else's. Of all the careers, it seems like the best, because I can do it by myself without ever entering an office building or doing manual labor.
27. I'm a lot better at noticing the Socionics types of others than I am my own. Some would take that and say, "He doesn't really know Socionics." Oh well. A couple years down the line, and I still don't know what it is. I might never know. So far, no one has managed to convince me, including myself. I think I'm good at socionics (I'd give myself a B+), but I can't 'mentally masturbate' over it the way thinking types do. I just can't... do that shit.
28. In my experience, the ones who look at least as good as I do have a chance of being at least as intelligent as I am. Anyone who looks about my level of good looks is probably 10 times dumber. Less than that, 100 times dumber. Good looks don't equal intelligence, though.
29. I've never met a "mental health professional" I liked. Yeah totally, and the one I thought I "liked" was me just IEI Fe sugarcoating, in truth I only hated her a little less than most the others. Fuck The*Rape*Ists/social workers etc and fuck them all to Hell!
Last edited by Hot Scalding Gayser; 11-12-2018 at 09:34 AM.
If you can't understand how to fix yourself, you're not really fixed imo. People go to therapists and psychologists to do things for them, when they could pick out some books and do things on their own without spending money on a therapist. They've been trained to believe that only experts can help them, though. So they've been conditioned into giving their power away to other people. Part of it is that people want easy fixes and they think others explanations are better than their own. A lot of the time, though, the mental health industry bullshits about different lies of human nature that don't exist, because it benefits society at the time for people to believe it. People say, "Well, they have degrees, so they know better than I do. I couldn't possibly challenge them."
Most people have a very strong desire to be accepted and loved. This will make them destroy themselves if they have to simply to gain the approval and love of others. In essence, it becomes a need to be controlled. People want the easy way, to be told and reassured about who they are. Without this, many fall apart. In other words, the best some do is to plead with others to be allowed to be themselves, or a small fraction of it. Those who don't notice this in themselves are often the least aware.
In college today, students are often told in humanities courses that there is no such thing as self or identity. All the better for people who want to control you. The knowledge that you can be who you want to be -- they leave that out.
Last edited by Aramas; 11-12-2018 at 10:06 AM.
who cares what do I see myself as? I see myself as a person, I am more interested in knowing why did you think of such a question in the first place? what do you think you could figure out if you find the answer?
No, but it affects how your type manifestDo you think this self-vision can be related to type?
I've always identified with being the thing that looks out and not much else
$20 USD
Check this out too: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/sth.2009.11
"diagnoses in psychiatry are applied to justify predetermined social responses"
I am a collection of organic molecules.
Yeah I've been caught up in the system before, it's very much kind of like 'Fi in the bad way' where the only thing matters is the therapist or social workers personal subjective opinion of you. Facts and evidence didn't matter. And I was a juvenile then and they had real power over my life, and when I could see my family etc. A very bad/narcissistic group therapy leader would release a boy out into society that would later go on to stab somebody- and likewise would imprison boys who didn't deserve it. It literally made criminal behavior, or even pre-criminal behavior - much worse. Facts didn't matter just what that person in particular thought. They would just twist anything you say to fit their own view of you. But as smug and arrogant and condescending as they were, they also were incredibly easy to manipulate. One evil state worker wanted to arrest me so bad that she grabbed my arm to anger me so I would hit her back in retaliation - but lol , I didn't fall for it. (but sadly a 16-year-old ESTp male probably would idk)They've been trained to believe that only experts can help them, though. So they've been conditioned into giving their power away to other people. Part of it is that people want easy fixes and they think others explanations are better than their own. A lot of the time, though, the mental health industry bullshits about different lies of human nature that don't exist, because it benefits society at the time for people to believe it. People say, "Well, they have degrees, so they know better than I do. I couldn't possibly challenge them."
I can't really say they were all deltas though, I just think they were a mix of all types. Mainly mostly misguided IEEs and EIIs, probably. A few LSIs and EIEs too tho. The main leader of the organization was a morbidly obese LSE, I think. And like, noooo carefree childlike alphas whatsoever lol. ((there was ESE secretaries but none of the group leaders were alpha)) I'd say it was pretty much every type but alpha.
People are life support systems for reproductive organs. Our biologically-based computers provide some assurances of survival for reproduction. The extras (ego?) that one adopts is no more than an aside in the software.......
a.k.a. I/O
https://aeon.co/essays/why-pregnancy...other-and-babyPeople are life support systems for reproductive organs. Our biologically-based computers provide some assurances of survival for reproduction. The extras (ego?) that one adopts is no more than an aside in the software.......
a.k.a. I/O
I AM ALIVE!
“What is Ubik?” Joe said, wanting her to stay.
“A spray can of Ubik,” the girl answered, “is a portable negative ionizer, with a self-contained, high-voltage, low- amp unit powered by a peak-gain helium battery of 25kv. The negative ions are given a counter-clockwise spin by a radically biased acceleration chamber, which creates a centripetal tendency to them so that they cohere rather than dissipate. A negative ion field diminishes the velocity of anti- protophasons normally present in the atmosphere; as soon as their velocity falls they cease to be anti-protophasons and, under the principle of parity, no longer can unite with protophasons radiated from persons frozen in cold-pac; that is, those in half-life. The end result is that the proportion of protophasons not canceled by anti-protophasons increases, which means - for a specific time, anyhow - an increment in the net put-forth field of protophasonic activity… which the affected half-lifer experiences as greater vitality plus a lowering of the experience of low cold-pac temperatures."
I am Ubik. Before the universe was, I am. I made the suns. I made the worlds. I created the lives and the places they inhabit; I move them here, I put them there. They go as I say, they do as I tell them. I am the word and my name is never spoken, the name which no one knows. I am called Ubik, but that is not my name. I am. I shall always be.
Author is Arendee type, confirmed.
SLE? Yeah. I typed him by VI on his Wikipedia photo.
https://acting-man.com/blog/media/2015/05/philip.jpg reminds me of Hemingway a bit.
What signals/cues did you use?
I used VI, but I was really referencing my assessment that he went off the rails the same way that Arendee did. "I am Ubik" (ubiquitious, or everywhere, god-like), and "I am God's messenger", or some such crap.
I went through a phase where I read a lot of PKD, and his early stories are incredibly inventive and highly readable. The later ones, not so much.
I think you're misinterpreting his writing. Whenever you read fiction or poetry, it's wrong to assume that the author is speaking in his own voice, for himself, or from his own perspective. Writers often assume other perspectives in their writing. This is commonplace behavior for writers. So when you read the statement, "I am Ubik," it might be better to interpret that phrase as Ubik being the speaker, not the author. PKD in this section is actually quoting Biblical ideas (among others), except under a different name and from an esoteric perspective. The book isn't an easy read, but that doesn't make it bad.
I have this persona of myself in my mind, and I have no idea where it came from. I know that it’s been influenced by a number of people from in my life, but I always see it like I’m a movie of myself.
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