Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 94

Thread: Se vs Si valuing; how can you tell?

  1. #41

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,697
    Mentioned
    510 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Si values comfort over goals. Se is the other way around
    I'd put this more as, Si values having sensory experience for its own sake just satisfying their current inner needs of the moment over pressuring people/things to get their object of desire (Se). So this includes comfort for Si but it includes many other things like the enjoyment of the internal effect of adrenaline and movement in sports etc, as long as that's the activity that would contribute the best to their inner needs in the moment, while in another moment it might be rest that's best for the inner needs. Homeostasis is kept in this way yet with Si being a dynamically changing Irrational element, instead of constant sameness.


    So yah, it's really weird how Si gets interpreted in different ways. Some people go for this narrow interpretation of Si = comfort while there are type profiles about Si like this (it's in jest but still): http://definitive-socionics.wikidot....istp-daredevil


    Another really good way to compare Si vs Se is focus on internal vs external demands. See: https://www.techhouse.org/socionics/sensorics.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Pole View Post
    All of these from both lists apply to me. I am a super sensor.
    Yeah, Si demonstrative of LSI is going to be strong enough to be able to relate to both. But which one you consciously focus on more is the one that's in your Ego block.
    Last edited by Myst; 08-19-2017 at 10:19 AM.

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,697
    Mentioned
    510 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargamel View Post
    how about details, which IE it relates to? All kinds of details. Like details of surroundings (some people easily get lost), pay attention to details of work, pay attention to people's facial expression, pay attention to word choice, observation, details of logic, details of ethics? Si or Se?
    Each IE (each one best interpreted as a system for processing some types of information) will process some kinds of details dealing with different types of details. Some of them aren't typically called "details" in everyday language, I mean it from an info processing pov.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gargamel View Post
    Maybe. But all the phenomenon should be deconstructed to the smallest aspects, so that each one of them can be related to exactly one IE.
    That's gonna be a loooong project. With the current tools and understanding we have in science for investigation.

  3. #43
    Number 9 large's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,404
    Mentioned
    244 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I'd put this more as, Si values having sensory experience for its own sake just satisfying their current inner needs of the moment over pressuring people/things to get their object of desire (Se). So this includes comfort for Si but it includes many other things like the enjoyment of the internal effect of adrenaline and movement in sports etc, as long as that's the activity that would contribute the best to their inner needs in the moment, while in another moment it might be rest that's best for the inner needs. Homeostasis is kept in this way yet with Si being a dynamically changing Irrational element, instead of constant sameness.


    So yah, it's really weird how Si gets interpreted in different ways. Some people go for this narrow interpretation of Si = comfort while there are type profiles about Si like this (it's in jest but still): http://definitive-socionics.wikidot....istp-daredevil


    Another really good way to compare Si vs Se is focus on internal vs external demands. See: https://www.techhouse.org/socionics/sensorics.html




    Yeah, Si demonstrative of LSI is going to be strong enough to be able to relate to both. But which one you consciously focus on more is the one that's in your Ego block.
    Lol that link is ridiculous, it claims istp cant feel genuine emotions, wat.

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,697
    Mentioned
    510 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Lol that link is ridiculous, it claims istp cant feel genuine emotions, wat.
    Yeah as I said it's not a serious type profile there. It's all exaggerated. It's a very different profile though compared to the narrow interpretation of "Si = comfort". Maybe it's the Ne dual seeking? "This type has a compulsion to excitement and an aversion to boredom thus making them an ideal super hero."

  5. #45
    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Celestial Sli
    Posts
    3,448
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Lol that link is ridiculous, it claims istp cant feel genuine emotions, wat.
    Of course we have genuine emotions and feelings, we have Fi, that emotions are not openly expressed is different. Duh...

    But this is ridiculous indeed, it was like taken from istp mbti than SLI... I think that is pretty hard for Si valuers to be into drugs or alcohol for too long, specially due the physical uncomfortable consecuences of it...unless they are depressed or something.

    "They wear a "mask of sanity" perfectly mimicking a normally functioning person, able to disguise the fundamental lack of internal personality structure and an internal chaos that results in repeatedly purposeful self-destructive behaviour such as an addiction to tobacco, alcohol, marijuana and/or prescription drugs."

    And what they mean with "lack of internal personality structure"?
    Last edited by Hope; 08-19-2017 at 03:19 PM.

  6. #46
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,372
    Mentioned
    112 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    How quickly they mobilize from a comfortable position
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

  7. #47
    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Celestial Sli
    Posts
    3,448
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Aylen...realistically talking, that picture is how things are for me, but not sure for the rest of SLIs, I've heard that some (supposing that they are SLI) are in the army (something that I'd never do be cause I dislike the mindless obedience, discomfort and discipline of it).

  8. #48
    Number 9 large's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,404
    Mentioned
    244 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    Of course we have genuine emotions and feelings, we have Fi, that emotions are not openly expressed is different. Duh...
    But this is ridiculous indeed, it was like taken from istp mbti than SLI...
    Yeah that's what I thought, cuz the istp in mbti has Se, which there basically means Si, but more extraverted in a way that means you tend to lead some kind of a hedonistic lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    "They wear a "mask of sanity" perfectly mimicking a normally functioning person, able to disguise the fundamental lack of internal personality structure and an internal chaos that results in repeatedly purposeful self-destructive behaviour such as an addiction to tobacco, alcohol, marijuana and/or prescription drugs."
    It's like they are describing a psychopath lmao, especially with the ''cant feel genuine emotions'', wtf. How do people take this seriously.

  9. #49

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,697
    Mentioned
    510 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    How do people take this seriously.
    It wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Site says "These case studies represent my satirical interpretations of the 16 types inspired by my cumulative experiences, and mixed with humour for effect."

  10. #50
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Spiritus Mundi
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    11,347
    Mentioned
    1005 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    @Aylen...realistically talking, that picture is how things are for me, but not sure for the rest of SLIs, I've heard that some (supposing that they are SLI) are in the army (something that I'd never do be cause I dislike the mindless obedience, discomfort and discipline of it).
    I think in some countries military service is compulsory and in the US it is a viable option for people who do not go on to university right away and need to earn the money first. I believe we have some kind of higher education grants for those who join. I also remember boys in my school who decided to go because their parents forced them. It was to teach them discipline. I knew right away which guys would have the hardest time with it and I was right. Some didn't make it past basic training. Others did 4 years then got out the first chance they got. Those who had the hardest time adjusting were ip types. I know it doesn't apply to all. My step dad was Navy but once he completed his time he got a, primarily, desk job for the army as QA inspector. It suited his temperament so he had his eye on that position the whole time. He carried a locked briefcase we were not allowed near.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

  11. #51
    darya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    TIM
    EIE-Ni 3w4 sx
    Posts
    2,833
    Mentioned
    256 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    @Aylen...realistically talking, that picture is how things are for me, but not sure for the rest of SLIs, I've heard that some (supposing that they are SLI) are in the army (something that I'd never do be cause I dislike the mindless obedience, discomfort and discipline of it).
    No idea about SLI's, but there are certanly many LSE's in army.

  12. #52
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,235
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Some people are capable of absorbing habits to their everyday life.
    My compulsory experience in there made me even more disorganized outside of that realm. I lost all the motivation to do something physical.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  13. #53
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    287 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Some possible examples of Se vs Si

    spoilered because these are personal examples and so dependent on types being correct. As I mention in the following examples, other factors may also apply.

    I've known delta STs who were stunt pilots and racecar drivers. They always seemed to be very very safety conscious, very concerned about people doing things "the right way" (correct procedure = Te.) Maybe it was some sp influence in there too, but one would lecture people up and down on how racing was only to be done on a track and with regulation safety equipment. Overall they tended to have the mindset that everyone can have fun if they do things right. For me it was different, it was always just "I want to see what I can make this machine do" and I had the tendency to push the limits of everything, which might be sx influenced as well. But, I just wanted to test what I could do. I never asked them if they were into feeling the sensations or whatever as that'd just be a weird thing to ask and I never even thought of it, so idk the answer to that. All I know is what I observed.

    With sports too, one delta ST friend also had a different approach than me. There, like with the machines, I wanted to see what my body could do, and I never backed down from even the hardest schedule, or in track from running events back to back and taking on the maximum amount I could. He had, well, more respect for the limits of his body, its need for recuperation and so on. Again, was some of this sp related on his part? Maybe.

    Rockclimbing with some friends once, one of my friends (a fellow LSI) and I were the only ones who had to push to the very top and wouldn't stop until we were there. Everyone else stopped and had a picnic lol and waited for us. Most were NF, but one delta ST said she would have gone with us to the top. If we had waited until after lunch heh. We just skipped it because getting to the top was way more important than eating.

    I've seen Si-ignoring people continue a sport or race or job with serious injuries, even broken bones before as well without stopping. And these weren't extreme circumstances or survival situations or even major competitions where anyone would push through either. I have not seen this in anyone else to the same level. But I would think that an sp-first person, who was Si-ignoring might be less inclined to push as hard or continue with serious injuries as these folks did who were probably sp-last.

  14. #54

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    If you are calm, lazy and obsessed with sensorial stuff then Si.
    If you like to boss around ppl then Se.
    If you like to be bossed around and have detailed instructions then Se PoLR.
    If you are evil or stressed then Si PoLR.
    do you think LIEs are stressed and evil? kinda true actually

  15. #55
    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Celestial Sli
    Posts
    3,448
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    do you think LIEs are stressed and evil? kinda true actually
    Yep. Lol

    Nah, I was joking, but stressed ppl can more easily acts in evil ways

    Did you know that stressed animals have aggressive or unhealthy behavior, like chewing theirs or others tails, ears, etc?...think about it.
    https://youtu.be/CMiBqllTdWE
    Last edited by Hope; 08-21-2017 at 05:54 PM.
    "All nations will place their hope in him."
    (Mt 12:21)

  16. #56
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Their reinin names are "resolute" and "reasonable". Se valuing types often focus on specific goals which should be reached "no matter what". Si valuing types, in my experience, are better at taking into account specific environmental circumstances. However, they also underestimate the impact of not reaching specified goals.
    Last edited by FDG; 08-21-2017 at 03:12 PM.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  17. #57
    Haikus Computer Loser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,431
    Mentioned
    96 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Se people value being more aggressive/taking the initiative relative to a Si valuer.

    Like if you were sitting in a restaurant and the waiter/waitress took forever to service you, an Se person would do something to get their attention (taking action to grab the server's attention) while an Si person would more likely wait (taking in the environment, maybe seeing that it's busy and the server's hands are full)

  18. #58
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,235
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    Like if you were sitting in a restaurant and the waiter/waitress took forever to service you, an Se person would do something to get their attention (taking action to grab the server's attention) while an Si person would more likely wait (taking in the environment, maybe seeing that it's busy and the server's hands are full)
    Ni person: what is the meaning of food and why people congregate places like this.
    Ne person: Restaurants are so passé. We need food teleportation. ASAP.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  19. #59

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    Yep. Lol

    Nah, I was joking, but stressed ppl can more easily acts in evil ways

    Did you know that stressed animals have aggressive or unhealthy behavior, like chewing theirs or others tails, ears, etc?...think about it.

    https://youtu.be/CMiBqllTdWE
    oh come on I wouldn't bite anyone else's nails

  20. #60

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Their reinin names are "resolute" and "reasonable". Se valuing types often focus on specific goals which should be reached "no matter what". Si valuing types, in my experience, are better at taking into account specific environmental circumstances. However, they also underestimate the impact of not reaching specified goals.
    it makes sense but from my experience, my SLI sister was better at school than I was, she slowly reaches her goals

  21. #61
    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Celestial Sli
    Posts
    3,448
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    oh come on I wouldn't bite anyone else's nails
    …you'd bite their souls instead.

  22. #62

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    …you'd bite their souls instead.
    How? by being nice and competitive at the same time?

  23. #63
    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Celestial Sli
    Posts
    3,448
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    How? by being nice and competitive at the same time?
    ...exactly. This describes more carefully the process:


    ENTJ
    The animal that belongs to ENTJs is the scorpion. You might think scorpions are cool, but there’s a reason you would keep them in a terrarium if you got one. These people will eat you alive. You might associate that with someone sounding “badass” but I assure you, even if you were their second-in-command they would flay you alive in the same fashion a nice person would not injure a fly. But, you know, reversely. Also if you had a m**********g talking scorpion, the ENTJ would convince you that it’s nice and you would let it out and it would devour you.

    Scruples are alien to them. They have no compunctions about petty details like ruining someone else’s life, and if they can get away with it they will gladly stab you with the dagger themselves.
    All politicians ever are ENTJs. An ENTJ’s path of personal development does not leave much room for creativity. The first 20 years (‘Phase 1’) the ENTJ does nothing that can be called pleasure, and only what can be called planning. Around the transition between Phase 1 and Phase 2 (the next 15 years), the ENTJ finds someone they will marry. This marriage is nothing but a contract, of course, with the money and fame the ENTJ has or will have exchanged for absolute compliance and a promise to not endanger any of the plans, even if this means repressing oneself.
    Phase 2 consists of building up a network of people that can usher them into positions of power and during Phase 3 they unleash all the pent-up stuff they’ve been hiding and eventually they get caught snorting coke off a prostitute’s Prince Albert, dressed like Eva Braun, reciting Atlas Shrugged. (At least one of those things should offend you.)
    ~
    SOURCE


    ;P

  24. #64
    No Fate Pole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    TIM
    LSI-Se
    Posts
    814
    Mentioned
    100 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    For an Se user I feel more likely to partake in care-taking than most Se users. I love to cook for other people, maintain order in the house, and help. I don't go out of my way tho, but if a man is hungry I will make him a sandwich LOL
    LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx

  25. #65

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    ...exactly. This describes more carefully the process:


    ENTJ
    The animal that belongs to ENTJs is the scorpion. You might think scorpions are cool, but there’s a reason you would keep them in a terrarium if you got one. These people will eat you alive. You might associate that with someone sounding “badass” but I assure you, even if you were their second-in-command they would flay you alive in the same fashion a nice person would not injure a fly. But, you know, reversely. Also if you had a m**********g talking scorpion, the ENTJ would convince you that it’s nice and you would let it out and it would devour you.

    Scruples are alien to them. They have no compunctions about petty details like ruining someone else’s life, and if they can get away with it they will gladly stab you with the dagger themselves.
    All politicians ever are ENTJs. An ENTJ’s path of personal development does not leave much room for creativity. The first 20 years (‘Phase 1’) the ENTJ does nothing that can be called pleasure, and only what can be called planning. Around the transition between Phase 1 and Phase 2 (the next 15 years), the ENTJ finds someone they will marry. This marriage is nothing but a contract, of course, with the money and fame the ENTJ has or will have exchanged for absolute compliance and a promise to not endanger any of the plans, even if this means repressing oneself.
    Phase 2 consists of building up a network of people that can usher them into positions of power and during Phase 3 they unleash all the pent-up stuff they’ve been hiding and eventually they get caught snorting coke off a prostitute’s Prince Albert, dressed like Eva Braun, reciting Atlas Shrugged. (At least one of those things should offend you.)
    ~
    SOURCE


    ;P
    that's the ESTPest ENTJ description one can find on MBTI forums

  26. #66

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pole View Post
    For an Se user I feel more likely to partake in care-taking than most Se users. I love to cook for other people, maintain order in the house, and help. I don't go out of my way tho, but if a man is hungry I will make him a sandwich LOL
    yes LSI and making food for others is correct, EIEs hate cooking afterall, but how about asking me every day about my projects? humm? and then talking about "the way to do things" "you must blah blah"? that is Se

  27. #67
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    287 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    yes LSI and making food for others is correct, EIEs hate cooking afterall, but how about asking me every day about my projects? humm? and then talking about "the way to do things" "you must blah blah"? that is Se
    Actually, that's Te. How to do things is Te, not Se.

  28. #68
    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Celestial Sli
    Posts
    3,448
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    that's the ESTPest ENTJ description one can find on MBTI forums
    There are no ESTPest entj description, the primary cognitive functions (1 and 2) of ENTJ on mbti are Te Ni, tetriary function is just auxiliary, its not like entjs are ruled by their 3rd function. And thats not the entj description of mbti, thats just a funny one.

    But we have this one in the forum:


    To this can be attributed the involutionary intuition of potential of IEE (ENFp) "Huxley" -Ne — the striving to intercept the maximum of chances and opportunities from others, devastating them morally and physically, then provoking them to take new risks, sending them in search of new opportunities, and then intercepting them, leaving a person without the slightest chance to improve their affairs. Shoveling all to the last crumbs and drops, overflowing the cup of patience of a dependent person - is typical of INVOLUTIONARY-DECLARING types. (And LIE "Jack" among them, with his resource-grubbing mobilizing aspect of sensing of sensations +Si - is no exception to this.) Some take the last remaining resources, gaining authoritarian advantages in their program - like SLE "Zhukov" (-Se), for example; some do it out of foresight, out of fear of remaining without material resources, without means of subsistence (as, for example, creatively covetous ESE "Hugo"); some do it out of greed or envy masquerading as nnonchalance and carelessness, from the standpoint of which it is very easy to take a person "on a dare" and deprive him of the last remaining resources, leaving no chance for the person to thrive and survive under new conditions, and no chance to return what he or she has lost (characteristic of IEE "Huxley" and LIE "Jack").


    Or this one: http://definitive-socionics.wikidot....he-entj-sadist

  29. #69

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Actually, that's Te. How to do things is Te, not Se.
    I don't mean how to do things. I mean forcing someone to do things they're not interested in doing

  30. #70

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    There are no ESTPest entj description, the primary cognitive functions (1 and 2) of ENTJ on mbti are Te Ni, tetriary function is just auxiliary, its not like entjs are ruled by their 3rd function. And thats not the entj description of mbti, thats just a funny one.

    But we have this one in the forum:


    To this can be attributed the involutionary intuition of potential of IEE (ENFp) "Huxley" -Ne — the striving to intercept the maximum of chances and opportunities from others, devastating them morally and physically, then provoking them to take new risks, sending them in search of new opportunities, and then intercepting them, leaving a person without the slightest chance to improve their affairs. Shoveling all to the last crumbs and drops, overflowing the cup of patience of a dependent person - is typical of INVOLUTIONARY-DECLARING types. (And LIE "Jack" among them, with his resource-grubbing mobilizing aspect of sensing of sensations +Si - is no exception to this.) Some take the last remaining resources, gaining authoritarian advantages in their program - like SLE "Zhukov" (-Se), for example; some do it out of foresight, out of fear of remaining without material resources, without means of subsistence (as, for example, creatively covetous ESE "Hugo"); some do it out of greed or envy masquerading as nnonchalance and carelessness, from the standpoint of which it is very easy to take a person "on a dare" and deprive him of the last remaining resources, leaving no chance for the person to thrive and survive under new conditions, and no chance to return what he or she has lost (characteristic of IEE "Huxley" and LIE "Jack").


    Or this one: http://definitive-socionics.wikidot....he-entj-sadist
    That's scary. and kind of funny to be honest. socioinics is a bit destructive here since for example you don't know me but assume I am a sadist or something. not very useful

  31. #71
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    287 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I don't mean how to do things. I mean forcing someone to do things they're not interested in doing
    Along these lines? =P
    Quote Originally Posted by Golihov on Te leading
    To go elsewhere, to someone else's territory, and start dictating who is supposed to do what or how something should be done is fairly typical for him. Communicating with such person there is a persistent impression that he is always in the archetype of the boss - he likes to give orders even if he has not been empowered to it: "take this shovel, you will go dig up potatoes".

  32. #72

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Along these lines? =P
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Rational-ENTj:
    It has been wrongly assumed that the ENTj is necessarily a controlling and bossy individual. In reality, he doesn't really care about bossing people around for it's own sake. What he's interested in is getting things done in the most efficient way. The ENTj can appear very relaxed and cool around people who accomplish what needs to be done naturally.
    and anyway in my experience, having a LSI father who was a senior engineer, bossing workers around all the time, he enjoyed it, and he bossed his children around too, and his wife. so maybe you don't really know many people with Se creative, since ESIs also make other people do things as a kind of "tough love". "this is better for you you should do it I will ask you constantly about it until you finally do it" and it is much worse in LSIs.

  33. #73
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's difficult since both elements need context. But if I have to isolate them as a person's "preference", I assess it from the standpoint: "what are they interested in?"




    exploring with the body to see, to grasp, to influence
    impacting, even suppressing
    detecting weak and strong points
    pushing buttons, see what happens outwardly
    seeing what you can acquire or defend
    effort, force
    Does something bend or break?
    Visible power [static!]
    Projecting a visual quality to others (latin root: iactus, to throw. Guess why Caesar [SEE] said "Alea iacta est": The die is cast! The action is but indicates the result seen right before you: "is". Note also here, fate)
    "It looks good"
    If it irritates - might push harder
    One particular object that appeals. And then another. Another! Keep adding.
    The "right now": impressions like a saccade of the eye capturing something like a polaroid snapshot
    readiness
    Excitement of leaving a physical (not mental/emotional) shock
    activity, quest
    Requires - what prevails in non-space over time, evolution & consequence, vision that does not originate from the eye





    experiencing with the body to take in, to balance, to harmonize
    soothing, even healing
    detecting healthy and unhealthy points
    adjusting something, see what happens inwardly
    doing something that's good for you or eliminating everything with a negative influence
    comfort, convenience
    Does something hurt or not?
    Internal satisfaction [dynamic!]
    Incorporating something (latin root in corpus, into the body - that's why is connected to food often)
    "It feels good"
    If it irritates - tries to accommodate or circumvent
    Several objects appealing as a combination, even as they change (like a clockwork)
    pleasantness
    Right now: impressions like a flow, imagine a flower blooming and withering, you can intervene and water it
    Contentment by modifying a sensation for yourself
    passivity, rest
    Requires - a mental impulse for something new, anti-stagnation, conceptual quality & ideas of the unknown/hidden




    Those are just some ideas. Now after that I proceed to look at / and / in relation to those to know how they are blocked which usually seals the deal. For instance, I always use and prefer in conjunction with action, knowledge, work, reason, and with "the system"

  34. #74
    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Celestial Sli
    Posts
    3,448
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    That's scary. and kind of funny to be honest. socioinics is a bit destructive here since for example you don't know me but assume I am a sadist or something. not very useful

    To be funny was the goal since the beginning.

    wait...where you taking all of this seriously?

    For future references, when someone says that X type or function is evil, s/he is probably joking.

  35. #75
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    287 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Rational-ENTj:


    and anyway in my experience, having a LSI father who was a senior engineer, bossing workers around all the time, he enjoyed it, and he bossed his children around too, and his wife. so maybe you don't really know many people with Se creative, since ESIs also make other people do things as a kind of "tough love". "this is better for you you should do it I will ask you constantly about it until you finally do it" and it is much worse in LSIs.
    That was a quote from Golihov. I quoted it as a friendly jab, it wasn't mean-spirited.

    You can read the whole thing here in the bottom section of the page: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...raverted_Logic

    Don't make the mistake of applying traits of one individual (your father) to an entire type though. I do know Se-creative lol, Reinin's is my favorite description of Se-creative because it does a good job of capturing what Se is in the creative role (and it's not bossiness), but most of the descriptions of Se-creative aren't too bad if you read them.

  36. #76
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Rational-ENTj:


    and anyway in my experience, having a LSI father who was a senior engineer, bossing workers around all the time, he enjoyed it, and he bossed his children around too, and his wife. so maybe you don't really know many people with Se creative, since ESIs also make other people do things as a kind of "tough love". "this is better for you you should do it I will ask you constantly about it until you finally do it" and it is much worse in LSIs.
    It depends on the specific person and specific culture too, and who they deal with, it´s not easy to be bossy around LIEs and EIEs if you want to keep them around.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  37. #77

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Your caregiver in turn View Post
    To be funny was the goal since the beginning.

    wait...where you taking all of this seriously?

    For future references, when someone says that X type or function is evil, s/he is probably joking.
    Oh I did it again sorry, I take things too seriously (or too easily)

  38. #78

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,697
    Mentioned
    510 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Zero yeah - Se creative does have the aspect of pushing people to do things, it's MBTI where it doesn't have that force/pressure aspect. It's the main way it differs from Si as explained earlier.


    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    It depends on the specific person and specific culture too, and who they deal with, it´s not easy to be bossy around LIEs and EIEs if you want to keep them around.
    It has to be done really creatively, true.

  39. #79
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,814
    Mentioned
    287 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is useful (judicious is Si, decisive is Se)


    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Judicious_and_decisive
    Hypotheses

    1. For the Decisive sensing types, mobilization has something to do with sensing—it is something physiological, a corporal condition (mobilization for them is perceived as bodily tension). Decisive intuitive types experience (and accordingly describe) a condition of mobilization that likened to internal readiness or inspiration. In a similar fashion, relaxation for Judicious sensing types is a physical sensation/condition—an absence of pressure and stress on the body. Judicious intuitive types primarily feel this certain rhythm, of alternation of opposite states. In other words, relaxation or slackness can be perceived as divergence of attention, while mobilization as focus, as convergence of attention.

    2. Decisive types view decisions they undertook as their own, and circumstances as surrounding factors in making their choice. Judicious frequently view their decisions as something they were compelled or forced to undertake by the circumstances.

    3. Judicious types better than Decisive can distribute their energy and estimate their reserves and expenditures, while Decisive types can maintain a high level of "charge" for prolonged periods of time.

    4. Decisive types prefer following a "campaign" method in work—when it's required (for example, for a large reward) work intensively for days and weeks, but then have time for rest and leisure. For the Judicious types "campaign" method of work is unnatural, they prefer to carry out work in "small portions".

    5. Extrovert-introvert orientation strengthens the manifestation of this dichotomy: extroversion strengthens Decisiveness and introversion strengthens Judiciousness.

    Examples

    Judicious: "I don't study the day before a big exam. I go to take a walk, read a little, etc." "I don't purposefully relax, but neither do I stay up until 6 o'clock" "Everything is designed in such a manner that after 10pm all is finished. I spend my evening as usual and why interfere with that?" "If I'm very tired—I just rest however much is necessary" "You should not work long on one problem, postpone it for another time" "Dealing with the moment of making a decision is complicated. It is not kept track of. The stage of preparation and the act of deciding occurs automatically, what happens afterwards is not related to it. Deciding is in itself an action—one can always return to it" "Thinking things over—this is the real work, after which the act of making the decision itself is not given attention. If it is necessary to do something else... I can feel in the back of my mind the circumstances that will force me to do it. I put myself into such situations" "There is a primary selection: is this necessary or not necessary, and from there things develop. The decision is somehow made, but in unconscious manner, and even if it is accepted, that does not mean that I will get around to it." "Consideration is very nice—you still don't need to decide. It's even better if you don't have to anything afterwards." "Before deciding on something, discussions are plentiful, but which decisions are undertaken I cannot keep a track of." "I modeled it in several versions—it is as if virtually I have already done it" "When some task is assigned, I carefully consider it for a long time. There isn't a conclusive moment for me when I finally decide to do something" "The main thing in work is freedom of organization, freedom of choice" "The opportunity to recharge is very important, I don't want to burn out" "I need a comfortable workplace which would be solely mine."

    Decisive: "First, lets make a push and do it—then we shall rest" "I feel terribly frustrated when someone tries to distract or engage me before an exam. Why? It messes with my concentration, to put it another way, it messes with my "inspiration"" "Sometimes I get so tired that I can't even sleep from the exhaustion." "I was writing my diploma for there days straight, then I came home and just collapsed." "Making a decision constitutes a separate moment, any doubts and fluctuations take place before that." "I always keep track of what decision I make. Every time I make a decision it's like a burden of responsibilities falls on my shoulders." "I will not get stuck on the process of discussion and consideration... it will be concluded with a decision." "If I decided watch a movie, then I will watch it" "Naturally, I remember when I made that choice" "When a person speaks of something, I perceive it as a signal to action even if it was just a suggestion... The decision to act is just an intermediate stage. If a decision is made, it does not mean that something has been done" "I don't understand—have we decided on something or not?" "Work should be interesting, but payment—that is of course considered." "I work for the money, I don't consider leisure a part of it. I work as much as they pay me."

  40. #80
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post

    It has to be done really creatively, true.
    Eheh. I still think that most EJ-Ni don´t really need "pushing", unless they´re depressed; mostly focus and a bit of direction on everyday stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by squark
    When a person speaks of something, I perceive it as a signal to action even if it was just a suggestion... The decision to act is just an intermediate stage
    My closest colleague in my team is an EII-Fi, we get along well but I notice this is a big difference between us, when my boss (I think some LSI-Se or ESI-Se) suggests something, I take it as something that has to be done immediately, whereas he is more likely to think of it as idea generation?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •