Black Panther Characters

[Chae]

Just returned from the cinema! Here the typings as promised. Review, opinions, and overall discussion: in @aster's thread.

The overall movie represents and often brings up social 6 topics. As usual, Beta and Gamma are at war, Alpha and Delta themes are not very pronounced.


T'Challa - ExI-Fi SO/SP 612 (Phobic, was hard to type because introtim. But in his speech to his father at the end Ij came out strong. Ethics without a doubt)
Okoye - SLE-Ti SO/SX 6 (Glaring PoLR, duty and loyalty to Wakanda and its royal hierarchy over personal affection)
Erik - , I prefer logics for him, SO/SP 136
W'Kabi -
Ramonda - Ij?
Nakia - ESI SX/SO 2
Klaue - ESE-Fe 7w6 (Andy Serkis plays his own type!)
Shuri 4D , maybe LSE SX/SP (EDIT: ILE!)
Everett Ross - EII?
M'Baku - 4D ? and definitely , SO/SP 8w7

[Kill4Me]

T'challa/Black Panther: ESE-Si 9w1 so/sp
Erik Kilmonger: SLE-Se 1w9 so/sp
Nakia: ESI-Fi 6w5 sp/sx
Shuri: SEE-Fi 2w3 so/sp
Okoa: SLI-Si 1w2 so/sp
Zuri: EII-Fi 1w2 sp/sx
T'chaka: LSE-Si 9w8 sp/so
W'kabi: SLI-Te 6w7 sp/so
Ramonda: EII-Ne 2w1 sp/sx
Klaw: LSE-Te 8w7 sx/sp
M'Baku: SLE-Ti 9w8 so/sp
Agent Everett: LSI-Ti 9w1 sp/so

[niffer]

^ Didn't even spell some of the names correctly.

Based on the Black Panther movie alone...

T'Challa: IEI
Erik Killmonger: IEE
Nakia: SLE
Shuri: ILE
Okoye: LIE
W'Kabi: ESI
Everett: ILx
Ramonda: IEI
M'Baku: SEI
T'Chaka: EII
Klaw: EIE?

[Shytan]

^ Didn't even spell some of the names correctly.

Based on the Black Panther movie alone...

T'Challa: IEI
Erik Killmonger: IEE
Nakia: SLE
Shuri: ILE
Okoye: LIE
W'Kabi: ESI
Everett: ILx
Ramonda: IEI
M'Baku: SEI
T'Chaka: EII
Klaw: EIE?

Erik Killmonger is the Se poster child. Can't be IEE.

[Chae]

T'challa/Black Panther: ESE-Si 9w1 so/sp
Erik Kilmonger: SLE-Se 1w9 so/sp
Nakia: ESI-Fi 6w5 sp/sx
Shuri: SEE-Fi 2w3 so/sp
Okoa: SLI-Si 1w2 so/sp
Zuri: EII-Fi 1w2 sp/sx
T'chaka: LSE-Si 9w8 sp/so
W'kabi: SLI-Te 6w7 sp/so
Ramonda: EII-Ne 2w1 sp/sx
Klaw: LSE-Te 8w7 sx/sp
M'Baku: SLE-Ti 9w8 so/sp
Agent Everett: LSI-Ti 9w1 sp/so

^ Didn't even spell some of the names correctly.

Based on the Black Panther movie alone...

T'Challa: IEI
Erik Killmonger: IEE
Nakia: SLE
Shuri: ILE
Okoye: LIE
W'Kabi: ESI
Everett: ILx
Ramonda: IEI
M'Baku: SEI
T'Chaka: EII
Klaw: EIE?

Erik Killmonger is the Se poster child. Can't be IEE.

Everyone, I have already made a thread here. Can someone merge it? @Director Abbie

Cool that someone else saw it, Shuri ILE is a good idea now that I think about it. IEI for T'Challa was my second guess.

[Kill4Me]

^ Didn't even spell some of the names correctly.

Based on the Black Panther movie alone...

T'Challa: IEI
Erik Killmonger: IEE
Nakia: SLE
Shuri: ILE
Okoye: LIE
W'Kabi: ESI
Everett: ILx
Ramonda: IEI
M'Baku: SEI
T'Chaka: EII
Klaw: EIE?

These typings are terrible. lol

[Pookie]

I think Tchalla was very Ij'ish

[Kill4Me]

T'challa is definitely, definitely ESE-Si.

BTW great movie. Much better than Last Jedi, Blade Runner, Darkest Hour and Molly's Game. Darkest hour and molly's game were two disasters.

[Exodus]

T'Challa: very roughly IEI
Shuri: ILE
T'Chaka: SEI maybe? Essentially was trying to please people and maintain stability.
Klaue: SLE, EIE could work
Okoye: LSI?
Killmonger: SEE/SLE
W'Kabi: ILI?

[Exodus]

T'challa is definitely, definitely ESE-Si.

Maybe you would like to explain why? Remember how they said he "always freezes"? Se wasn't exactly his strong suit.

[Exodus]

Shuri is definitely ILE, she's like a female version of Q from James Bond. One of the clearer types in the movie.

[Kill4Me]

Maybe you would like to explain why? Remember how they said he "always freezes"? Se wasn't exactly his strong suit.

9w1s get that antelope stuck in the headlights expression from time to time especially if they have 6w7 and 3w4 for fixes. Type 9 is a withdrawn type with a tendency to 'zone out'...self-forgetting is a manifestation of sloth. That said, you want to keep in mind they were just teasing him about it more than they were rebuking him for it. It wasn't a serious deficit. He was still strong enough in it that he could do triple somersaults off exploding cars and still land on his own car during a high speed chase. He was still strong enough in it that he was able to whip M'baku's ass. IEI is the worst typing imaginable for T'challa. Fe/Si perfectly explains his arc in the film. There's no Ni-dom there at all.

[Exodus]

Yeah, I typed him a 9w1. Nines get that antelope stuck in the headlights look from time to time. Type 9 is a withdrawn type with a tendency to 'zone out'...self-forgetting is a manifestation of sloth.

Also you want to keep in mind they were just teasing him about it more than they were rebuking him for it. He was still strong enough in it. IEI is the worst typing imaginable for T'challa. Fe/Si perfectly explains his arc in the film. There's no Ni-dom there at all.

...I'm still not seeing any actual observations of his personality here.
"a withdrawn type with a tendency to 'zone out'" is not consistent with ESE.

[Kill4Me]

T'Challa: very roughly IEI
Shuri: ILE
T'Chaka: SEI maybe? Essentially was trying to please people and maintain stability.
Klaue: SLE, EIE could work
Okoye: LSI?
Killmonger: SEE/SLE
W'Kabi: ILI?

T'chaka was no SEI. He wanted to maintain stability because he's a 9w8 sp/so. 9w8s are a traditionalist sort and typically emerge in films as the main preservers of the status quo. But looking at his cognition, T'chaka was a smooth flatterer. Fi provides an internal mirror of people's inner worlds such that flattering bigger egos comes quite easily. T'chaka has an easy time manipulating T'Challa's uncle, as well as endearing himself to T'challa's father, who clearly was his dual. This also gave him an ability to foresee future actions that the others could not see. Se Polr also makes him rather self-sacrificing and altruistic (probably why so many spiritual teachers are EII)...at the end he steps up to take the blade for T'challa.

Shuri is too bubbly for ILE. She does have a super high iq like so many of the Wakandans do.

[Kill4Me]

...I'm still not seeing any actual observations of his personality here.
"a withdrawn type with a tendency to 'zone out'" is not consistent with ESE.

It's consistent with 9w1. What you are pointing out doesn't have to do with cognition for the purposes of typing his socionics. it has to do with defense mechanisms related to his enneagram type. Furthermore, it was beyond dispute that he was a competent warrior. The queen was mad when he wanted to go off to South Korea to stop Klaw. She even said, "Wakanda needs a King, not a warrior."He displayed a cognition for motivation/force all throughout the movie. He was also territorial. To say that Se was a chink in his cognition is not only a total exaggeration but insane.

[niffer]

Erik Killmonger is the Se poster child. Can't be IEE.

Having a lot of strength and killing a lot of people is very "Se" I guess but why could this not be the result of Se HA or Se role? "Se posterchild" is kind of vague here, and in a movie full of people with super strength it seems redundant to mention.

Plus just based on his movie character and the impression I got, I feel like his motives were very ENFx. Like a ******. He was very focused on ideology. He was a visionary of sorts. Also once he got into power he scrapped his original vision more or less. You would think that someone who is an Se lead would have a better sense of the scope and of how to control their power and stop when necessary.

[Kill4Me]

He's a 1w9 so/sp like ****** but his cognition for avenging perceived wrongs doesn't feature an ability to whip people up into an emotional frenzy and manipulate them with the skill of a musician. Killmonger's only tool of persuasion is his own personal force and killer instinct.

[niffer]

That's his motivation, not his cognition. He's a 1w9 so/sp like ****** but his cognition for avenging perceived wrongs doesn't feature an ability to whip people up into an emotional frenzy and manipulate them with the skill of a musician. Killmonger's only tool of persuasion is his own personal force and killer instinct.

Well he also had Vibranium lol. In combination with extensive US military training.

[Kill4Me]

Well that made it even easier for him. Just like Mike Tyson's dense, compact build at 225 pds. made it easier for him to knock people out. In combination with his training and education on how to drop his weight into punches under the tutelage of Cus D'Amato.

[niffer]

Well that made it even easier for him. Just like Mike Tyson's dense, compact build made it easier for him to knock people out. In combination with his training and education on how to drop his weight into punches under the tutelage of Cus D'Amato.

All the other main characters have it (vibranium) too lol. The point was that he had what T'Challa or anyone else would have had plus modern training and weaponry. He had the best of both worlds. He could have been any type really and building up using what he was given would have made a Killmonger. What set him apart was only his motivation. I could also argue that a whole 20 something years is a long time to dedicate oneself to an ideology for and his planning for it would have required a lot of foresight. That's not really a stereotypical characteristic of 1D Ni.

[niffer]

T'challa is definitely, definitely ESE-Si.

Throughout the movie his people found him incapable of protecting them. He also had serious self-doubts on his ability to govern well and make good decisions. I'd say that's pretty inconsistent with a 4D Se caretaking type and pretty consistent with a low Se Te IEI.

[Kill4Me]

They all had vibranium but still different cognition. Vibranium doesn't alter cognition such that an IEE turns into SLE. lmao

It has no effect on Model A. An IEE/EIE possessing vibranium and military training would still have a cognition for Ne/Fi or Fe/Ni.

A lot of the characters possessed military training and are distinguishable by their cognition.

[niffer]

They all had vibranium but still different cognition. Vibranium doesn't alter cognition such that an IEE turns into SLE. lmao

It has no effect on Model A. An IEE/EIE possessing vibranium and military training would still have a cognition for Ne/Fi or Fe/Ni.

A lot of the characters possessed military training and are distinguishable by their cognition.

There were no other characters with both extensive US military training and vibranium (plus insider knowledge) all together like him.

[Exodus]

Throughout the movie his people found him incapable of protecting them. He also had serious self-doubts on his ability to govern well and make good decisions. I'd say that's pretty inconsistent with a 4D Se caretaking type and pretty consistent with a low Se Te IEI.

Yep. The more willful Wakandan females tended to direct things on a more practical level.

Killmonger was definitely motivated by power - it could make sense for Se mobilizing but not role.

He was also at least somewhat motivated by vengeance and personal loyalty to his father. Another point is that he makes no bones about violating the cultural rules in place, burning the plant things and cutting to the chase with the challenge - not that this necessarily contradicts Beta extrovert but it could be interpreted as subdued Ti + valued Te.

[Pookie]

FWIW freezing up in that regard is not self forgetting and zoning out. It's the exact opposite. Its self consciousness and being too much in your head.

[Pookie]

Also I'm not making sense of the, he was a good warrior therefore strong Se argument.
A) Superpowers, from a panther Goddess.
B) Many good fighters are Ns.

[Kill4Me]

There were no other characters with both extensive US military training and vibranium (plus insider knowledge) all together like him.

Wakanda had a military, so they had military training. The fact his training was from the US and not Wakanda is a moot, tortured, not relevant point as none of those factors are going to transform the cognition of an IEE into a SLE.

[niffer]

Yep. The more willful Wakandan females tended to direct things on a more practical level.

Killmonger was definitely motivated by power - it could make sense for Se mobilizing but not role.

He was also at least somewhat motivated by vengeance and personal loyalty to his father. Another point is that he makes no bones about violating the cultural rules in place, burning the plant things and cutting to the chase with the challenge - not that this necessarily contradicts Beta extrovert but it could be interpreted as subdued Ti + valued Te.

Violating rules could also be low Si and Ti lol.

Why couldn't it make sense for role? I don't think IxE are necessarily immune to power. On the contrary to what you're saying I think that part of his problem was his not really acknowledging or becoming aware of the issue of himself becoming a totalitarian dictator with all the power in order to fulfill his ideological plans. Someone with stronger Se would have much better control and awareness of such a thing. They would be aware of how their plans would be fundamentally warping around such effects. Killmonger just didn't really seem to care, it was all considered a part of his ideological regime to him. I think it's Golihov's description of Te HA where it describes them as wanting to become an expert in order to (finally) do things their way and lay down the law... I experience xEEs as following this sentiment a lot.

[Kill4Me]

Also I'm not making sense of the, he was a good warrior therefore strong Se argument.
A) Superpowers, from a panther Goddess.
B) Many good fighters are Ns.

Nobody is making that argument. That was an argument Niffer assumed Shaebette was making even though Shaebette never actually mentioned it:

Having a lot of strength and killing a lot of people is very "Se" I guess but why could this not be the result of Se HA or Se role? "Se posterchild" is kind of vague here, and in a movie full of people with super strength it seems redundant to mention.

Niffer was putting forth a strawman.

[niffer]

Wakanda had a military, so they had military training. The fact his training was from the US and not Wakanda is a moot, tortured, not relevant point as none of those factors are going to transform the cognition of an IEE into a SLE.

Wakandan people use spears and rhinos lol. Killmonger went to MIT, and Afghanistan with the US.

"none of those factors are going to transform the cognition of an IEE into a SLE." - Lol speaking for your own blather, this is well said. Exactly.

[Kill4Me]

FWIW freezing up in that regard is not self forgetting and zoning out. It's the exact opposite. Its self consciousness and being too much in your head.

She specifically described it as a doe in the headlights look, so that would be the zoning out of a nine look.

[niffer]

Nobody is making that argument. That was an argument Niffer assumed Shaebette was making even though Shaebette never actually mentioned it:



Niffer was putting forth a strawman.

They're valid points to address, otherwise that's the only argument anyone (including you) could be making re: Killmonger and Se.

[Exodus]

Violating rules could also be low Si and Ti lol.

Why couldn't it make sense for role? I don't think IxE are necessarily immune to power. On the contrary to what you're saying I think that part of his problem was his not really acknowledging or becoming aware of the issue of himself becoming a totalitarian dictator with all the power in order to fulfill his ideological plans. Someone with stronger Se would have much better control and awareness of such a thing. They would be aware of how their plans would be fundamentally warping around such effects. Killmonger just didn't really seem to care, it was all considered a part of his ideological regime to him. I think it's Golihov's description of Te HA where it describes them as wanting to become an expert in order to (finally) do things their way and lay down the law... I experience xEEs as following this sentiment a lot.

He had an insane, overpowering desire to return to Wakanda and become the king. He said it literally drove his life decisions for many years on end - he made sure to become the most badass warrior possible (and was successful, and apparently enjoyed it as well). This doesn't make sense for an Si valuer. Golihov may describe Te that way but it doesn't make any sense to me. Restructuring a society to consolidate your own power seems very aware of Se to me.

[Kill4Me]

Wakandan people use spears and rhinos lol. Killmonger went to MIT, and Afghanistan with the US.

"none of those factors are going to transform the cognition of an IEE into a SLE." - Lol speaking for your own blather, this is well said. Exactly.

So what he went to MIT. Lots of people go to MIT and they are still distinguishable by their cognition. Nothing about his cognition in the movie speaks to IEE or EIE. He is clearly not IEE/EIE just because he wants to force other countries into submission. Your reasoning is horrid. lmao

[niffer]

He had an insane, overpowering desire to return to Wakanda and become the king. He said it literally drove his life decisions for many years on end - he made sure to become the most badass warrior possible (and was successful, and apparently enjoyed it as well). This doesn't make sense for an Si valuer. Golihov may describe Te that way but it doesn't make any sense to me. Restructuring a society to consolidate your own power seems very aware of Se to me.

Ok, I do agree with most of what you said here - it makes sense. Just his lifelong planning thing to me makes equally no sense to me as a 1D Ni personality. And you could also argue that wanting to protect the oppressed of the world could be Si seeking (he also feels his "roots" were taken away from him and is seeking to restore them and relive and see the tradition he lost in a sense). And wanting to become a badass could be Se role easily.

[niffer]

So what he went to MIT. Lots of people go to MIT and they are still distinguishable by their cognition.

Your reasoning is horrid. lmao

I wouldn't really expect someone who still spells a main character's name wrong in OP even after a post edit and another poster pointing out their error, to be able to self-reflect and understand nuance enough to see just how funny they are.

[Kill4Me]

Actually, I amend that.

I think your take on his motivation is accurate but you're overfocusing on his motivation (including some of his general behaviors) and not the specifics of his cognition. So the reasoning there is not horrid; it's just got nothing to do with his cognition for the purposes of typing his socionics type.

Observe cognition for socionics type.

[niffer]

"Observe cognition" - Kill4Me, 2018

Te polr confirmed

[Kill4Me]

This thread has certainly offered further evidence that Niffer is not SLE. Obviously his/her reading for self-reflection and nuance as well as valuing caution is more evidence for niffer not being Fi PoLR....as well as the total lack of understanding for what Se-dom is, the obsession for minor spelling errors and incapacity to spot Se in a Se dom as obvious as Killmonger (no cognition for motivation/force on niffer's part). Also notice in her arguments for his type there's not much handle on actual facts from the movie. See my elaboration on niffer's type in forum member's typing thread.

[Kill4Me]

I wouldn't really expect someone who still spells a main character's name wrong in OP even after a post edit and another poster pointing out their error, to be able to self-reflect and understand nuance enough to see just how funny they are.

Niffer ran out of steam, he/she's back to the spelling errors. the MIT argument didn't work out all that well. lol