Beta Quadra versus Delta Quadra sense of humor

[ladyinred]

My understanding is Beta types have more rowdy or maybe dirty? outlandish sense of humor than Delta, is this the case? Do you have to tone it down around people from other quadras especially Deltas or is this just exageration in Quadra descriptions?

[Brilliand]

It does tend to happen that way, but I wouldn't call that a very reliable metric - that is, don't try to type anybody on that.

[ashlesha]

i'm not beta, but what i've noticed in beta humor is this sort of confrontational thing where (and i'm sure a beta could describe this a lot better than i can) its like a person is pointed out and given shit and then they have to defend themselves and there's humor derived from this sort of power play that happens. i guess i would describe it sort of like a verbal form of king of the hill.

personally, i'm not bothered by humor that's dirty or outlandish but this sort of confrontational/power play aspect i see in beta style humor makes me uncomfortable.

edit: i feel like i should clarify..i mean, anybody can tease people playfully or whatever. i guess when i see it in betas i just sense this expectation or like this undercurrent of "do you have the balls to respond the right way" or something...bleh idk how to explain it. maybe i'm way off here and i'm kind of hoping a beta can tell me whether they see what i'm referring to or not.

[jessica129]

For what it's worth, I have an extremely open mind, and humor is no exception. I don't get offended easily... at all.

Same here.

[Airman]

i'm not beta, but what i've noticed in beta humor is this sort of confrontational thing where (and i'm sure a beta could describe this a lot better than i can) its like a person is pointed out and given shit and then they have to defend themselves and there's humor derived from this sort of power play that happens. i guess i would describe it sort of like a verbal form of king of the hill.

personally, i'm not bothered by humor that's dirty or outlandish but this sort of confrontational/power play aspect i see in beta style humor makes me uncomfortable.

totally agree, and to me this type of humor sucks, it´s offensive.
there´s also another type of beta humor I´ve noticed, a beta person will just say something very rude in a laughing manner and consider it a joke, it may not be something confrontational, but some very rude critique for example, or something like it, in a very blunt tone. and then laugh with a kind of air of superiority.

[Park]

fuck you

[Jenna]

i think sexist jokes are hilarious... as long as it's really a joke

[Beautiful sky]

I love it when my duals are enthusiastic about things and react to that enthusiasm and I love it when they make impressions of others...it's so funny.

[discojoe]

The only humor I don't like is the pretentious artsy kind.

[sarinana]

The only humor I don't like is the pretentious artsy kind.

I am doing a painting where a pirate is sucking your cock.

[discojoe]

klhjlhj

[Azeroffs]

A clique I sometimes am dragged along with which basically consists of Betas and Alpha NTs definitely thrives on very in your face, loud, aggressive, and very sexual humor. It is definitely a power play thing meant to get people to defend themselves but roll with the punches, nonetheless. I personally find it highly annoying and immature, particularly the sexual humor, but I roll with it to an extent. My buddy says it's an 'anything goes' sort of atmosphere, which is understandable that they want to be able to express themselves without worrying about propriety, but it reaches a point of lacking in consideration to where it feels like sexual harassment, even though it isn't meant that way, and after a while, I just need to get away from it.

Though not all Beta groups operate like this. They are mostly all guys, too. With the female groups, I notice a more silly, action oriented, but otherwise good-natured humor which is meant to create a sense of fun and unity.

Delta humor is obviously not so action-based (in the sense of action for the sake of action), is more intimate and not about group unity, and aims towards being classy versus crude, even when incorporating sexual humor. And of course, people's personal feelings are cued into versus Beta groups which more expect people to put their personal feelings aside and realize that people are kidding around.

This is how I see it as well

fuck you

Why so angry lately?

[strrrng]

i'm not beta, but what i've noticed in beta humor is this sort of confrontational thing where (and i'm sure a beta could describe this a lot better than i can) its like a person is pointed out and given shit and then they have to defend themselves and there's humor derived from this sort of power play that happens. i guess i would describe it sort of like a verbal form of king of the hill.

personally, i'm not bothered by humor that's dirty or outlandish but this sort of confrontational/power play aspect i see in beta style humor makes me uncomfortable.

edit: i feel like i should clarify..i mean, anybody can tease people playfully or whatever. i guess when i see it in betas i just sense this expectation or like this undercurrent of "do you have the balls to respond the right way" or something...bleh idk how to explain it. maybe i'm way off here and i'm kind of hoping a beta can tell me whether they see what i'm referring to or not.

Overall, I'd say this happens a lot less than the theory would suggest (or this forum...). If someone is pointed out, there is usually a reason, either contextual or direct; so, it's more of a necessary proceeding that solidifies the positions of people.

totally agree, and to me this type of humor sucks, it´s offensive.
there´s also another type of beta humor I´ve noticed, a beta person will just say something very rude in a laughing manner and consider it a joke, it may not be something confrontational, but some very rude critique for example, or something like it, in a very blunt tone. and then laugh with a kind of air of superiority.

hm, I think I do this sometimes. like at work, I made a certain comment about how my boss's wife is a useless breeder with the air of a doll-house caricature; the humor was just in effect, but I honestly believed it. now that I think about it, some people seem uncomfortable with my style of humor. but I don't know, I just like to mock things, because I think it's the most direct way to highlight interesting aspects of experience.

Delta humor is obviously not so action-based (in the sense of action for the sake of action), is more intimate and not about group unity, and aims towards being classy versus crude, even when incorporating sexual humor. And of course, people's personal feelings are cued into versus Beta groups which more expect people to put their personal feelings aside and realize that people are kidding around.

I have witnessed this many times. it's annoying, because it suggests that they actually do think they're better than what their humor says -- *chuckle at lewd joke about the in-laws* -- "I didn't really say that," then go back to hum-drum chanting. also, with the personal feelings thing, betas want to draw the line for efficiency's sake; but it's blurred with deltas, and often their 'humorous' comments seem snarky.

[ashlesha]

Overall, I'd say this happens a lot less than the theory would suggest (or this forum...). If someone is pointed out, there is usually a reason, either contextual or direct; so, it's more of a necessary proceeding that solidifies the positions of people.

it came from rl observation and not theory or the forum, ftr. thanks though. and yeah, the solidifying the positions of people comment fits my perception of it.

I have witnessed this many times. it's annoying, because it suggests that they actually do think they're better than what their humor says -- *chuckle at lewd joke about the in-laws* -- "I didn't really say that," then go back to hum-drum chanting. also, with the personal feelings thing, betas want to draw the line for efficiency's sake; but it's blurred with deltas, and often their 'humorous' comments seem snarky.

i can see this, heh.

[ashlesha]

The only humor I don't like is the pretentious artsy kind.

what is pretentious artsy humor?

[silverchris9]

I think aixlsyd is accurate: the most salient or accurate way to identify beta humor (or rather, atmospheres of beta humor) is that in beta humor if a joke offends you, you are expected to "take it on the chin." It is expected that everyone understands that since no offense is intended (or even if it is intended) the goal of maintaining a high energy, boisterous emotional atmosphere (Fe) is more important than making sure no one is emotionally hurt/offended/annoyed (Fi).

Of course betas can go too far, even for other betas, but in that case people will generally be forcefully shut down by a joke at their expense, which is where the adversarial thing comes in. Rather than slow everything down to say "that was offensive, please stop," which would be TOTALLY out of place in a beta atmosphere, except as a joke itself, the beta response will have more of an Se character: either someone who is more "in charge" (or has more emotional--in the Fe sense--pull) will forcefully change the subject or someone more emotionally "hardy" will start a joke-fight with the offending party.

For example: Tom-Well everyone knows that Brenda here is no stranger to the midnight Ho-hos! John-Oh, like you can talk, Tom. At least Brenda is the gender that's supposed to have boobs. What's your excuse? In this case, nobody was told that their actions were immoral or rude. John just decided that Tom crossed a line and redirected the "who are we making fun of now" to John, rather than Tom.

In extreme cases, someone will just issue a command that says "stop." The stop is based on the "volitional energy"/implied threat of force from the person issuing the command, rather than any moral obligation on the part of the person who has offended another. In other words, the cause is the same (Bob said something mean) but the emphasis is different (Dan said to stop and Dan is a boss). In this way, beta-gamma groups can introduce some tension due to the Fe-Fi distinction, but are more stable than beta-delta groups due to a somewhat shared way of resolving conflicts (Se application of "force").


So, the negative aspect of Beta humor is that in emotional atmospheres, Betas often don't give a shit whose feelings are hurt as long as the room stays "up" metaphorically, as long as everyone is engaged and feeling something. Same with arguments/debates, by the way. It doesn't matter whose feelings are hurt, it matters that everyone is engaged and interested in the debate.


Now, the negative aspects of delta humor are, I think, something that strrrng touched on. Since betas value Se, we generally fixate on the lack thereof, and so I think that the beta issue with delta humor can be described as a lack of Se (especially by an Se-seeking IEI). Se is a very direct function, especially when blocked with Ti. It makes very concrete and specific distinctions between objects in the real world, and is comparatively comfortable pointing them out, unless there is a compelling reason not to. Delta humor will often rely on a shared sort of understanding of a group to which the butt of the joke does not belong. I can't think of accurate examples, but something like "Bessie: Ugh, sometimes things are so awkward. Susan: Yeah, like when people make... erm... scatalogical jokes at inappropriate times." *Bessie and Susan both give a half-look towards Greg and sort of giggle.* That wasn't as good as my beta example, but maybe some deltas can comment.


So, socionics is not as good at describing beta vs. delta humor, per se, as beta vs. delta humorous atmospheres. Betas and deltas will tell the same jokes; funny is funny. But betas and deltas will not tell the same jokes in the same way. And I will add, for the sake of defending my stereotypes, that betas are the most likely quadra to have jokes that are extreme, relative to their cultural situation. Like, given the culture situation of most Americans, jokes about rape are about as taboo as you can get. Betas are more likely than deltas to do a rape joke. Not that deltas can't do rape jokes, but as far as likelihood. But you can reverse that. You can imagine a culture in which religion is a cultural thing, and the most awful thing one can do, culturally, is make a joke about religion. In that situation, betas would be relatively more likely to make religion jokes (although I will note that betas often think of religion in terms of "this is how the world is" Se, as opposed to "this is how people should treat each other/this is how I feel comfortable treating people" Fi, and so can be just as observant in religion as anyone else.)

[Gilly]

I think aixlsyd is accurate: the most salient or accurate way to identify beta humor (or rather, atmospheres of beta humor) is that in beta humor if a joke offends you, you are expected to "take it on the chin." It is expected that everyone understands that since no offense is intended (or even if it is intended) the goal of maintaining a high energy, boisterous emotional atmosphere (Fe) is more important than making sure no one is emotionally hurt/offended/annoyed (Fi).

Of course betas can go too far, even for other betas, but in that case people will generally be forcefully shut down by a joke at their expense, which is where the adversarial thing comes in. Rather than slow everything down to say "that was offensive, please stop," which would be TOTALLY out of place in a beta atmosphere, except as a joke itself, the beta response will have more of an Se character: either someone who is more "in charge" (or has more emotional--in the Fe sense--pull) will forcefully change the subject or someone more emotionally "hardy" will start a joke-fight with the offending party.

For example: Tom-Well everyone knows that Brenda here is no stranger to the midnight Ho-hos! John-Oh, like you can talk, Tom. At least Brenda is the gender that's supposed to have boobs. What's your excuse? In this case, nobody was told that their actions were immoral or rude. John just decided that Tom crossed a line and redirected the "who are we making fun of now" to John, rather than Tom.

In extreme cases, someone will just issue a command that says "stop." The stop is based on the "volitional energy"/implied threat of force from the person issuing the command, rather than any moral obligation on the part of the person who has offended another. In other words, the cause is the same (Bob said something mean) but the emphasis is different (Dan said to stop and Dan is a boss). In this way, beta-gamma groups can introduce some tension due to the Fe-Fi distinction, but are more stable than beta-delta groups due to a somewhat shared way of resolving conflicts (Se application of "force").


So, the negative aspect of Beta humor is that in emotional atmospheres, Betas often don't give a shit whose feelings are hurt as long as the room stays "up" metaphorically, as long as everyone is engaged and feeling something. Same with arguments/debates, by the way. It doesn't matter whose feelings are hurt, it matters that everyone is engaged and interested in the debate.


Now, the negative aspects of delta humor are, I think, something that strrrng touched on. Since betas value Se, we generally fixate on the lack thereof, and so I think that the beta issue with delta humor can be described as a lack of Se (especially by an Se-seeking IEI). Se is a very direct function, especially when blocked with Ti. It makes very concrete and specific distinctions between objects in the real world, and is comparatively comfortable pointing them out, unless there is a compelling reason not to. Delta humor will often rely on a shared sort of understanding of a group to which the butt of the joke does not belong. I can't think of accurate examples, but something like "Bessie: Ugh, sometimes things are so awkward. Susan: Yeah, like when people make... erm... scatalogical jokes at inappropriate times." *Bessie and Susan both give a half-look towards Greg and sort of giggle.* That wasn't as good as my beta example, but maybe some deltas can comment.


So, socionics is not as good at describing beta vs. delta humor, per se, as beta vs. delta humorous atmospheres. Betas and deltas will tell the same jokes; funny is funny. But betas and deltas will not tell the same jokes in the same way. And I will add, for the sake of defending my stereotypes, that betas are the most likely quadra to have jokes that are extreme, relative to their cultural situation. Like, given the culture situation of most Americans, jokes about rape are about as taboo as you can get. Betas are more likely than deltas to do a rape joke. Not that deltas can't do rape jokes, but as far as likelihood. But you can reverse that. You can imagine a culture in which religion is a cultural thing, and the most awful thing one can do, culturally, is make a joke about religion. In that situation, betas would be relatively more likely to make religion jokes (although I will note that betas often think of religion in terms of "this is how the world is" Se, as opposed to "this is how people should treat each other/this is how I feel comfortable treating people" Fi, and so can be just as observant in religion as anyone else.)

I hope your death is painless.

[silverchris9]

I hope your death is painless.

I hope your hair is fluffy.

[Gilly]

Hey, I was being nice.

[Gilly]

ENOUGH OF THIS

EITHER YOU ARE A WRITER

OR YOU AREN'T

MAKE YOUR CHOICE, ASSHOLE

[silverchris9]

Explain to me how that post about hmor was relevant to me being a writer or not.

Also, you can be a poet and a human being. It's hard, but works well. I guess it means you have to have two selves though.

[hotasphyxiation]

I don't know how it is for all Betas but I find a lot of things really funny. I love pointing out the irony in things, making self-depreciating jokes, rowdy stuff, silly stuff. A lot of times I end up laughing at things that I probably shouldn't be laughing at (not in a mean way lol, but more so in a weird sort of way). I love making jokes to a friend in public or something that no one else is going to get. Also, I love making jabs at somebody and having them give it right back to me, but I generally only perpetuate this kind of humor with people who I know aren't going to take it the wrong way. Sometimes I'll make a joke like this and if it seems like the other person took it seriously, I'll say "I'm only kidding" and probably won't try joking around with them that way again. For instance, I would never force someone to "lighten up" if they seemed uncomfortable; I would just change my style of interacting with that person to a way that meshed with them better. Also, like Starfall said, it's pretty difficult to offend me with humor but at the same time, if I saw someone seriously get their feelings hurt (especially if it was because of a joke I made) I would feel really bad, even if I felt that what was said shouldn't have warranted that kind of reaction.

Anyway, I hope those examples can be useful to some extent. Sorry I'm complete garbage at pointing out the difference between the 2 quadras but I'm not confident enough in my ability yet to recognize delta humor when I see it, so no examples from me there. :wink:

Also you think beta laughs sound different than delta laughs? Like more epic. And evil. Muahahahahahahahaha!

[Ave]

totally agree, and to me this type of humor sucks, it´s offensive.
there´s also another type of beta humor I´ve noticed, a beta person will just say something very rude in a laughing manner and consider it a joke, it may not be something confrontational, but some very rude critique for example, or something like it, in a very blunt tone. and then laugh with a kind of air of superiority.

That doesnt sound beta. That sounds more ESTp or ENTj.

[BlazingZulu]

hotasphyxiation our humor is very similar haha we'd get along. I make outrageous jokes all the time and laugh at them myself too. Jokes about anything really although its hard to explain exactly what makes something funny. In hope of illustrating how I dont intend my jokes in a hurtful way, I also joke about myself and plenty of them are pointing out ironys.

I've also noticed that there are hardly anyone who can joke without it being potentially offensive. To be honest I thought thats how everyone talked. Like at my old job everyone would josh, "Hey WTF is wrong with this angle? Look. Its about as good as slamming your dick in a door. Fix that shit"

Some people would take it, and laugh about it on break. Others took it pretty hard, which cued more of those comments. Phrases like that could EASILY be taken personally but a steady head would tell you that they don't mean what they say. The great thing about this kind of talk is that you know exactly how a person views you.
Im not sure what my type is but I find this kind of humor the most relaxed.

Question... I met this really strange guy a few weeks ago through our mutual friend Rob. And his jokes are in a league of their own. One time he said, seemingly at random, to Rob "You have ugly teeth hah hah". All of his jokes take on a similar form. Rob was taken back by it but basically ignored him and we kept talking. This guy admitted he says anything that comes to his head.
Is this humor characteristic of a beta or is it possible to say he's just socially awkward.

[jessica129]

That doesnt sound beta. That sounds more ESTp or ENTj.

You do know ESTP's are Beta, right?

[Beautiful sky]

You do know ESTP's are Beta, right?

Whatever type he is, he has weak Se. Nice catch jessica...your perceptive Se is right on those details.

[silke]

I likeirony, sudden change of meaning or direction, dark-ish humor, puns. Physical humor only if it is very highly refined and high quality, example would be Russell Peter stand-up comedy. Don't like absurdist humor very much.

[Singu]

I like the absurd kind of humor... where things don't really make any sense. Funny considering that we're the same type.

Oh, and I don't necessarily think Deltas are always this classy, morally uprighteous saints who just can not hurt the feelings or make fun of others. I think that humor is mostly a generational, cultural thing, anyway.

[DirectorAbbie]

My SLE brother is a party pooper. When Squishy (or another family member) and I are having fun with , he just sits there thinking we're stupid.

[Amber]

Deltas laugh if you tickle them or when they Fi-mock the "not us" (they laugh the insiders' laugh , it's more like a subdued smile with a wink). Betas laugh if you fall on the stairs and break your spine, if you forgot to zip your pants. And when one bursts out laughing then the whole house starts shaking.

[ashlesha]

i saw this taped up somewhere yesterday and thought, "delta humor"