All or Nothing

[Default]

I've realized over the past couple weeks that one of my characteristics is not knowing how much work is enough. Sometimes, I paralyze myself into inactivity and passiveness, or find ways to be unproductive because I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras.

I'll take a simple example - studying.
I realized that I'm adverse to studying because I don't know how much studying qualifies as 'enough'. I'm a bad notetaker because I can't pick out the most important details and end up writing down too much. I like to read from the textbooks rather than from my own notes because I don't want to feel like I missed something.

Type related?

[Beautiful sky]

When someone limits the amount of time you can spend on an activity, how does that make you feel?

(God, I sound like the psychologist )

[Default]

Hmm...
It depends on whether or not I want them to do so. Sometimes I need those boundaries to keep myself in check, and at other times they seem totally unnecessary.

[Gilly]

Sounds like Ni seeking.

[Beautiful sky]

Have you tested Ni PoLR?

Ni PoLR's don't feel time well.

"I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras."


Sounds like procrastination. Ni primary types can feel time well, that's why they are Ni primaries...

Sounds like you may be LSE, ESE, SLE

[Marie84]

sounds like weak +

[Default]

Sounds like Ni seeking.

Maybe. I'll have to look that up.

Have you tested Ni PoLR?

Ni PoLR's don't feel time well.

"I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras."


Sounds like procrastination. Ni primary types can feel time well, that's why they are Ni primaries...

Sounds like you may be LSE, ESE, SLE

That would mean I'm Ej temperament though, which I really doubt... The only thing I've ever been absolutely sure of is irrationality.

sounds like weak +

Which, according to my self typing, is supposed to comprise my ego-block.

[xerx]

I've realized over the past couple weeks that one of my characteristics is not knowing how much work is enough. Sometimes, I paralyze myself into inactivity and passiveness, or find ways to be unproductive because I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras.

I'll take a simple example - studying.
I realized that I'm adverse to studying because I don't know how much studying qualifies as 'enough'. I'm a bad notetaker because I can't pick out the most important details and end up writing down too much. I like to read from the textbooks rather than from my own notes because I don't want to feel like I missed something.

Type related?

That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.

sounds like weak +

Or possibly devalued ?
Gilly's suggestion maybe applicable as well.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Aiss]

I kind of relate to what you describe - both inactivity and losing sleep, etc. - but not to its reasons. I think Ni egos can be exceptionally procrastinating, but in my case at least, it has nothing to do with not knowing how much is needed and everything with not wanting it to take more than necessary.

I can see you as a Si-base, for whatever it's worth - Ip temperament and weak Ni make sense. What you say about your habits of note-taking and studying is also something I've noticed in SEI, though I don't really know any SLIs well enough to compare. Maybe people have a point about devalued Te. But I don't think it's enough of a reason on its own to retype, especially seeing as suggestions in this thread combined point towards SLE - a type for whom inaction, not to be confused with laziness, isn't really all this characteristic.

[717495]

Sounds like your creative function. Not being sure how much is good enough, and over or under-doing it, despite the estimates which seemed fine at the time.

[Default]

That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.

Maybe I'm your type Or maybe this applies to a whole spectrum of people, I don't know.

That points out that you're a Static type (Ij or Ep) and probably Irrational, too.
I'm pretty much the same, btw.

Why static?

I kind of relate to what you describe - both inactivity and losing sleep, etc. - but not to its reasons. I think Ni egos can be exceptionally procrastinating, but in my case at least, it has nothing to do with not knowing how much is needed and everything with not wanting it to take more than necessary.

What are your reasons? I'm curious.

Sounds like your creative function. Not being sure how much is good enough, and over or under-doing it, despite the estimates which seemed fine at the time.

Hmm, I don't know. Something about this seems off.

The 'all or nothing' thing in general sounds like some typically human shit people of all types do; you might be surprised to find out how common it really is. I'd recommend this approach to you that helped me with that kind of behavior: Structured Procrastination

As to your specific example, again I can't say as though that's type-related (on it's own). Personally I can't think of a time being paranoid on whether I've studied enough (I usually study as little as possible and decide to 'wing it' from there). I'd lean maybe towards devalued , if only because it often seems to me that valuers have a harder time prioritizing information and wanting the entire schematic of a topic before they can feel contently informed about it. Whereas more or less naturally operates on an acceptance that all knowledge and decisions will be necessarily based on incomplete information.

Haha, I like that. Structured procrastination.
I should try that sometime.

To be honest, yeah, I do what you do. I usually end up putting off studying and improvising. It always works out well, but I feel like I can do better and fulfill some sort of standard I've set for myself.

[redbaron]

I'm a total procrastinator. But I never worry about it.

[Aiss]

What are your reasons? I'm curious.

It's not like it's the conscious decision, but a natural mode of operating. Do you start a dishwasher every day, or wait until it's full? I only move when there's a lot of stuff that needs to get done soon. Even if I sometimes regret this later. Otherwise I'd just be working and working and working all the time and feeling I'm getting little done. Stretching it over time is so much more exhausting and wasteful. (Although it seems to work for some people, notably Ijs. I swear some of them spend more time complaining that their workload is changing rapidly than I do working.)

Plus if you get something done before you have to, it's very likely to turn out unnecessary after all. I'm sure there's a Murphy's law for that or something.

[redbaron]

It's not like it's the conscious decision, but a natural mode of operating. Do you start a dishwasher every day, or wait until it's full? I only move when there's a lot of stuff that needs to get done soon. Even if I sometimes regret this later. Otherwise I'd just be working and working and working all the time and feeling I'm getting little done. Stretching it over time is so much more exhausting and wasteful. (Although it seems to work for some people, notably Ijs. I swear some of them spend more time complaining that their workload is changing rapidly than I do working.)

Plus if you get something done before you have to, it's very likely to turn out unnecessary after all. I'm sure there's a Murphy's law for that or something.

lol, so true!

[golden]

I'd recommend this approach to you that helped me with that kind of behavior: Structured Procrastination

Very cool resource.

I also agree that this may not be extremely type-related. It might correlate more or less with various types, but I know I used to have more obvious all-or-nothing patterns when I was in my teens and early 20s. Now I realize that something is better than nothing, and that "all" is a way of exerting too much pressure and perfectionism on myself.

[krieger]

I think it's a symptom of our times. Information and entertainment are so widely available it's almost impossible to get around it. The temptation to take a break from work pervades everything.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Park]

Because what you say is not simply generic "procrastination", but the way you see things, "is" or "is not". It boils down to reproduction, like an artist who makes a portrait, at one point it looks good, but then after several extra strokes it's still good, although different. Which one *is* the (good) one, this is the question? Dynamic types, in my observations, have not this problem, for them everything is "prepare it until it's *satisfactory*", things are not "yes" or "no". Statics can't understand the fluid evolution and cheangeability of things so easily, that things are not a certain way - or at least they don't focus on these, but absolutes.

In that case, I am 100% static.

[squark]

I've realized over the past couple weeks that one of my characteristics is not knowing how much work is enough. Sometimes, I paralyze myself into inactivity and passiveness, or find ways to be unproductive because I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras.

I'll take a simple example - studying.
I realized that I'm adverse to studying because I don't know how much studying qualifies as 'enough'. I'm a bad notetaker because I can't pick out the most important details and end up writing down too much. I like to read from the textbooks rather than from my own notes because I don't want to feel like I missed something.

Type related?

A rule of thumb that worked for me throughout high school and college on notetaking is: If the professor writes it on the board, copy it down in your notes. Otherwise, just listen. The stuff that s/he puts on the board is what they find important.

At the end of the day, do a quick read-through of your notes if you have time, because quick 5 minute reviews of the important concepts keeps them fresh in your mind and you cut out huge study sessions where you're trying to cram everything. It also gives you a chance to check if you're clear on everything. And if not, you can check the text, or bring it up in class next time.

I had many more hours of free time, and was far less stressed out that way.

[Beautiful sky]

Very cool resource.

I also agree that this may not be extremely type-related. It might correlate more or less with various types, but I know I used to have more obvious all-or-nothing patterns when I was in my teens and early 20s. Now I realize that something is better than nothing, and that "all" is a way of exerting too much pressure and perfectionism on myself.

I love to see this...Ti activation
If anyone ever says you might be EIE or IEE, go ahead and flash them this post...

and ask them, how can EIE use Ti? BAHHHH
and ask them, how can IEE use Ti? HAHAhA

[quote=jxrtes;697420]That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[strrrng]

I relate to what you describe, and think it mainly has to do with perfectionism, secondly with irrationality, and possibly with Se/Ni-valuing, as those types tend to segment time (whereas Si/Ne types, from my pov, seem more comfortable with a natural evolution of time).

[Marie84]

Or possibly devalued ?
Gilly's suggestion maybe applicable as well.

yep

[Park]

What about this case: you make independently the portrait of someone for two times until they are both good. You never compare them side-by-side, but looking to each separately, they are "perfect". Thinking about real-life situation - not philosophically! - how does that make you feel? Do you feel like there's only a good one, requiring the dismissal/destruction of the other? Considering that everytime you compare them against the model, they are fine:
- both are good, even if they may differ from each other (which is not proven);
- it can be only one, comparing them with each other is required;
- none is good, if you created a third one and looked better, the both current ones would have to be dismissed.

From how I understood your example it would be the 1st ("both") option. And I would have real trouble deciding which one I like better. But this is unless there are significant/notable differences between the two, in which case I would probably be able to decide which one is better. There's also the case where some elements/parameters are better done on one, while other (different) parameters are better on the other; so it's a matter of which elements you give more weight to, and how much (and in which ways) they influence the artwork/whatever as a whole. Say like when you look at the portrait painting from a couple of feet away, or just glance over it briefly so you can get that "first impression" impression.

P.S. I do endless listening comparisons with my music between different versions of the same song, tweaking and fine-tuning things, reworking details until I get a satisfactory result. Which is practically never, but I always try to reach some sort of a maximum, and squeeze out as much as possible out of everything.

[07490]

At the end of the day, do a quick read-through of your notes if you have time, because quick 5 minute reviews of the important concepts keeps them fresh in your mind and you cut out huge study sessions where you're trying to cram everything. It also gives you a chance to check if you're clear on everything. And if not, you can check the text, or bring it up in class next time.

This is true.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I'm gonna play a 'freud' card on you, only cause it reminds me of something.

You have a discombobulated, undisciplined ego. (It's actually an issue that most of people on this forum have, including myself) Your ego is shaky and unconfident naturally, and you second-guess your own thoughts too much, and you feel too much at odds with your super-ego and id. The ego is what is necessary to become a functional, healthy adult as it's the balancing force between your super-ego and id, both of which are dark, self-destructive forces if left unchecked.

How to fix your problem: I would meditate, learn to 'lighten up', and re-attune yourself to the big picture. In 2 weeks from now, the bullshit thing you have to study, or what work you have to do won't mean anything, you'll just realize it's a game that people are playing (primarily because they are intimidated by your own id and passion, but that's another topic), there's no way to stop or fight the game, getting mad at it is self-defeating... only way to realize it is to calmly laugh at it and say 'this is all just a game' and then move on, knowing what's true for you in your own heart.

[Beautiful sky]

That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.



Or possibly devalued ?
Gilly's suggestion maybe applicable as well.

I think it's Ni ignoring. I saw the weak Ni, but had to sort of think about where it feel, and it makes sense that it would be an ignoring, especially if he is an Ne valuer, which clearly, he is.

I'm a total procrastinator. But I never worry about it.

Why don't you worry about it?

D

Do you plan a lot?

[redbaron]

Why don't you worry about it?

I guess because I have enough experience to know exactly how long something's going to take and do it at the very last minute. Take today for example. soccer pictures. You're supposed to send your kid to the photo line-up with his form filled out for what package you want. Well, we arrived with 3 minutes to spare, I grabbed the form, found a pen and filled out the form, handing it to him just as they were about to go into the gym. lol I do stuff like that all the time. Not exactly sure why.

[Beautiful sky]

I guess because I have enough experience to know exactly how long something's going to take and do it at the very last minute. Take today for example. soccer pictures. You're supposed to send your kid to the photo line-up with his form filled out for what package you want. Well, we arrived with 3 minutes to spare, I grabbed the form, found a pen and filled out the form, handing it to him just as they were about to go into the gym. lol I do stuff like that all the time. Not exactly sure why.

That's having a very good feel for time... in the ego block is good at this, but not having a very good feel for it leads to not being aware of it's movement. So, you truly don't procrastinate because you're consciously aware of time; but, this type of procrastination, that he speaks of, is about not being aware of time and how long something will take. They leave things alone or put things off because of the lack of this awareness. You can also put things off, but having Ni in your ego block will not let things escape your conscious attention...so, you'll do them when they come due.

[jughead]

Maybe, but consciousness is not so straight line, its fractured, I would assume irrationals would be more aware of the tradeoffs in time they are making. Ni people tend to "hesitate" and may therefore fail to take any action at all, and Se is needed to push them into some action when neccesary. I think?

[Beautiful sky]

Maybe, but consciousness is not so straight line, its fractured, I would assume irrationals would be more aware of the tradeoffs in time they are making. Ni people tend to "hesitate" and may therefore fail to take any action at all, and Se is needed to push them into some action when neccesary. I think?

So you're saying that Ni knows what to be done when but needs to be pushed to do it? I think what happens is that Ni gets Se to do it instead. Because, Se loves activity. This would explain why I don't push my duals into activity, instead plan activity and try to communicate to them the necessity of the activity at a given time, hoping that they will make the "right" decision, based on their logical conclusions.

[redbaron]

So you're saying that Ni knows what to be done when but needs to be pushed to do it? I think what happens is that Ni gets Se to do it instead. Because, Se loves activity. This would explain why I don't push my duals into activity, instead plan activity and try to communicate to them the necessity of the activity at a given time, hoping that they will make the "right" decision, based on their logical conclusions.

yeah but if there's no Se nearby you have to do it yourself! When I'm around a dual, yeah, they do it. lol

[Satan]

It's a very Beta outlook on life, imo.

Coincidentally, a while back I was at dinner with my SLE bf & his friends and we got into some random conversation about achievement. Somehow it got to the point where I end up randomly saying "All or nothing..." Everyone at the table just kind of paused & went silent with a transfixed expression at those words. lol. SLE was speechless for a while & said somthing like "wow, that was really awesome. That's going to be my new motto in life."

Now his boat is named "All or Nothing"

he'd never thought of that before u said it?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Satan]

I wondered the same thing Merky. By the reaction at that table you'd think I'd spoken the words of god or something. I always thought it was such a common motto in life. But I guess it was more the way I conveyed the phrase than anything . What I meant was that I'd rather go all the way to the top and be the most successful than be stuck in the middle, or be second best.

idk, i used to say that shit all the time. and people would accuse me of having black and white thinking and not being able to see shades of gray, and that i should differentiate more and blah blah fucking blah.

[redbaron]

I wondered the same thing Merky. By the reaction at that table you'd think I'd spoken the words of god or something. I always thought it was such a common motto in life. But I guess it was more the way I conveyed the phrase than anything . What I meant was that I'd rather go all the way to the top and be the most successful than be stuck in the middle, or be second best.

my SLE sister-in-law is kind of like this. I think age can temper this outlook a bit too though.

cute about their reactions! and sooo funny that he used it for his boat name! lol

[golden]

my SLE sister-in-law is kind of like this. I think age can temper this outlook a bit too though.

Still haven't figured out my current bf's type--too intermeshed, maybe, to be objective--but he is surprisingly way extreme in his all-or-nothing, black-and-white thinking. I always have to help him out with that, lol. I sort of know how, because I used to do that more and have learned to see shades of gray. And I do think age and experience can temper this thinking pattern.

[Park]

It's Alpha too.

It's Delta, too.

[Default]

A rule of thumb that worked for me throughout high school and college on notetaking is: If the professor writes it on the board, copy it down in your notes. Otherwise, just listen. The stuff that s/he puts on the board is what they find important.

At the end of the day, do a quick read-through of your notes if you have time, because quick 5 minute reviews of the important concepts keeps them fresh in your mind and you cut out huge study sessions where you're trying to cram everything. It also gives you a chance to check if you're clear on everything. And if not, you can check the text, or bring it up in class next time.

I had many more hours of free time, and was far less stressed out that way.

I'll definitely keep that in mind...Thanks.

I relate to what you describe, and think it mainly has to do with perfectionism, secondly with irrationality, and possibly with Se/Ni-valuing, as those types tend to segment time (whereas Si/Ne types, from my pov, seem more comfortable with a natural evolution of time).

Segment time? Evolution of time?
Could you elaborate on this? I had thought it was the other way around, with Se/Ni perceiving the past, present, and future as part of a continuum.

Because what you say is not simply generic "procrastination", but the way you see things, "is" or "is not". It boils down to reproduction, like an artist who makes a portrait, at one point it looks good, but then after several extra strokes it's still good, although different. Which one *is* the (good) one, this is the question? Dynamic types, in my observations, have not this problem, for them everything is "prepare it until it's *satisfactory*", things are not "yes" or "no". Statics can't understand the fluid evolution and cheangeability of things so easily, that things are not a certain way - or at least they don't focus on these, but absolutes.

For the record: based on my observations, Dynamic types are incapable to evaluate themselves, more precisely to put themselves in a box, and ask (more or less directly) the opinion of people on their worthiness, and of course, Statics can't wait to picture everything/everyone. "Am I good?", "am I a loser?" - "all I know is what I can and can't do, but I can't deduce from it where I 'fit'". No matter how capable and how much self-esteem a Dynamic type person has, he/she always in doubt about *what* he is, apart for the sum of his actions, feelings, ideas, etc. A weakness in seeing properties and relations - the blueprints.
But this gives them advantage in getting the job done. They do it until it looks fine, it's all a matter of refinement.

Statics focus on judging what others *are*, Dynamics what others *do*.
---

But you're apparently in search of external boundaries, too - not sure about this - so I could narrow it down to Ti. It's like the difference between playing the violin and the guitar. How can you know when you play the correct note on the violin while you have no reference in support? Of course, it sounds good, but it just doesn't feel "right". The difference between Ti and Fi types stands in the fact that Fi types can subjectively decide what's "good" because they can easily use convenience.

Talking about instruments, I always had this problem, how to tune the guitar? It can be tuned lower or higher, but I end-up using standard E4 - similar to what you say, all (reasons) or none. I have friends who play and they have no existential problem in under-tuning it, but I have this problem because I simply can't find a principle for choosing, if I tune it one tone under and decide it's "perfect", then someone lowers the pitch again without my knowledge, I'll probably like that too! WTF? What should I choose, a multiple of the average frequency of my heart, a divisor of the minimum frequency of the chromatic spectrum? Things like these .

I'm having some trouble understanding the first part of your post. I can kind of grasp the 'essence' of it, so to speak, but if asked to reiterate what you wrote to someone else, I don't think I'd be able to...

As for me searching for external boundaries, I don't think I "search" for it. Rather, if they are in place, okay, I can work with it and in hindsight might even have needed it. For example, if rules/deadlines are in place, I can work well because I do the greatest amount of productive work when under pressure (to the detriment of my own health). However, I like best when limitations aren't set upon me, when I'm left to my own devices so that I don't have to rush or conform to certain standards or people-please or anything like that. That never seems to happen, though, so I'm always bogged down.

Well... What I do, as far as tuning my violins/saxophones, is to just go with what sounds right. Always works for me

How to fix your problem: I would meditate, learn to 'lighten up', and re-attune yourself to the big picture. In 2 weeks from now, the bullshit thing you have to study, or what work you have to do won't mean anything, you'll just realize it's a game that people are playing (primarily because they are intimidated by your own id and passion, but that's another topic), there's no way to stop or fight the game, getting mad at it is self-defeating... only way to realize it is to calmly laugh at it and say 'this is all just a game' and then move on, knowing what's true for you in your own heart.

What you describe seems like a "me against the world" mentality, which I don't agree with.

You're saying that people tell you to study and do work because they're intimidated? That type of thought process seems self-centered to me, as if we're all special people that everyone else instinctively fear...

I think it's a symptom of our times. Information and entertainment are so widely available it's almost impossible to get around it. The temptation to take a break from work pervades everything.

It's Delta, too.

YouTube - All or Nothing at All-Diana Krall

That very well may be, so I guess it might not be type related. Well, not the isolated mindset, anyway - the reasons for being an 'all or nothing' person might be.

There are a lot of alphas/betas in here, though, from what I gather.