Your typing of forum members (archived '11-'14)

[DaftPunk]

Well. Sorry to annoy you.

Not ESE. I married one, had and have plenty of ESE friends and the NP/SJ differences are quite distinct, as well as all the Model A differences.

When you read words you can misinterpret. No facial expression, not voice intonation. You misinterpreted me. My advice is not forceful. I do care deeply about it that topic though, and true to my type - I like to share important personal growth experiences. I like to help people have what really makes them happy. In a helpful teacher kind of way, like, "Try this! It works!" Not a dictator way, "Everyone has to do it this way since its the only way." And IRL I only say "Try this!" to one who is open to hearing that. I am very alert to any sign to change the subject. I also ask. In fact IRL I listen way more than i talk. Its easier!

After meeting my SLI who I wrote as friends for so long our writing took a different tone, as future was very much on our minds - without it being a topic yet. Keeping things light,in spite of what I was feeling and felt he was feeling (I would not dare ever ask; I waited til he said things), I wrote an email just saying what I made for dinner that night, and went on about the swiss chard how I like to cook it just right and it tastes so great and its so healthy and so good for us. . SLI wrote back all stern that he didn't appreciate anyone telling him how to eat, that his sister does that, goes on and on about frozen veggies even though she smokes, and he can't stand it. LOL.

It endeared me because he gave away the unspoken: that he was thinking about future. But I explained to him that I was just talking about what I do/think and I NEVER tell people to what to eat and that I believe VERY strongly in personal freedom and I never did that with my ex and I don't even tell my son what to eat. I always give him choices when I can about what to have for dinner because I want to cook what people want.... Freedom is so important to me.

Well SLI was relieved when I explained it, I could tell. And now he doesn't have any of those worries.

I am probably not like your grandmother at all. I have an ESE friend who may well be though. She is so pushy with her husband and her kids. If she is not telling ppeople what they shoudlbe doing she is fussing and steaming to herself about it, never at reast. She is admirably and energetically dedicated to serving her family, but she has MANY detailed ideas on how they should do every single thing. It can't be peaceful to be a kid in her home. She has too high standards about every aspect of their life. And we share Catholic values, and i agree, her ideas about doing things this or that way are usually "ideal" standards. But you can't impose all that on people. The kids obey when young but they bust out later. Another thorn is she aspires to the "Asian Mom ideal" (she is from Singapore), and sort of excuses herself that way. But eldest daughter, 13, is angrily rebelling already...

I just am not that way. I have high standards of how I do things but I don't impose them on ANYONE. Not even my own son. He makes a lot of choices I would never. Like I would never pick for my son to watch shows about zombies and play Assassins Creed. I suffer it in silence (or sometimes ear plugs). ( do have some "No way, not in this house"). He is SLE and totally different from me, a separate person not an extension of me and I respect he is an emerging person who is not going to make all the right choices the first time.. I wield my parental right to keep to just a few minimum standards for him with a very short list of "must do's". I was interested in the Swedish parent article recently because it was too much like how I parented, to some of the same results at times... my young son thought he was another little adult...Sometimes I worry I go too far the freedom way.

However, I do have a secret weapon to get what I ultimately want - I pray.

Don't completely count out we may be duals. [I'm IEE, and SLI seems a strong possibility for you IMO]. Consider the misinterpretations such as the one I just explained. And consider how strangely different duals are, the same only on "P". Its not the sort of "I get that!" you get with your identical. Duals don't appreciate each other when they first meet.. And we are certainly more strangers than old friends.....

And its good to get know the strange ways of your duals in your life. So when you meet one you want to date, you won't discount and overlook what coUld turn out to be a very good thing for you.

And hopefully today you learned that when she shares her strong personal values and ideas about how is the best way she should do things, you can relax because unlike your grandma she wont have ideas about how you should do things. Instead she will be ever-curious and interested in why you do what you do. I never get tired of that with my SLI. I guess its because he is so different from me.

_____________
P.S. I forgot you were in on that German New Medicine thing. I had just mentioned it, and someone jumped in who hated that theory. But the thing is, I know its different view, too different for most. And I don't talk about it IRL for the most part because for most people health matters are too personal, and tied to family tradition and ideas of those they trust, the health plan they worked hard to pay for, the doctor they trust, etc. Who wants to consider a new paradigm anyway? Few. I respect that.

I love my SLI and want him to have along life, because know we will enjoy all our moments together. I would NEVER push him. God forbid it would come to it, but if he choose radiation/chemo over natural for cancer, and I had to watching him (IMO) needlessly suffer, I still would, rather than harm him trying to impose my ideas on him. (however, he has taken to the easy part of my health regime, supplements, because he was willing, and he chooses to stick with it since he feels great on it. My Naturapath sees it as prevention so Lordwilling we wont ever have to deal with that scourge).

I never impose ideas on people. Ideas are too sacred, and the free will of persons is too scared. God would frown at me...

I never doubted your honest intentions and that you're genuinly well meaning. I also picked with annoye the wrong word. Irritate would have been the better choice

The problem I had for example with your post about mothership was mainly with your introduction: I hope [...] you're going to do. You could fill the gap with almost everything and it would irritate me. I see that it is mainly my problem. Such phrases just are for me like forcefull . But you were probably right that missinterpretation in communication doesn't outrule a possible duality is still a very strong IE of the IEE and there are probably also occasions where a SLI could irritate a IEE with or

I think it's better I don't respond to the NGM part of your post because your implying that people are to much in a rut and to stubborn to look into it.

[SyrupDeGem]

Well. Sorry to annoy you.

Not ESE. I married one, had and have plenty of ESE friends and the NP/SJ differences are quite distinct, as well as all the Model A differences.

When you read words you can misinterpret. No facial expression, not voice intonation. You misinterpreted me. My advice is not forceful. I do care deeply about it that topic though, and true to my type - I like to share important personal growth experiences. I like to help people have what really makes them happy. In a helpful teacher kind of way, like, "Try this! It works!" Not a dictator way, "Everyone has to do it this way since its the only way." And IRL I only say "Try this!" to one who is open to hearing that. I am very alert to any sign to change the subject. I also ask. In fact IRL I listen way more than i talk. Its easier!

After meeting my SLI who I wrote as friends for so long our writing took a different tone, as future was very much on our minds - without it being a topic yet. Keeping things light,in spite of what I was feeling and felt he was feeling (I would not dare ever ask; I waited til he said things), I wrote an email just saying what I made for dinner that night, and went on about the swiss chard how I like to cook it just right and it tastes so great and its so healthy and so good for us. . SLI wrote back all stern that he didn't appreciate anyone telling him how to eat, that his sister does that, goes on and on about frozen veggies even though she smokes, and he can't stand it. LOL.

It endeared me because he gave away the unspoken: that he was thinking about future. But I explained to him that I was just talking about what I do/think and I NEVER tell people to what to eat and that I believe VERY strongly in personal freedom and I never did that with my ex and I don't even tell my son what to eat. I always give him choices when I can about what to have for dinner because I want to cook what people want.... Freedom is so important to me.

Well SLI was relieved when I explained it, I could tell. And now he doesn't have any of those worries.

I am probably not like your grandmother at all. I have an ESE friend who may well be though. She is so pushy with her husband and her kids. If she is not telling ppeople what they shoudlbe doing she is fussing and steaming to herself about it, never at reast. She is admirably and energetically dedicated to serving her family, but she has MANY detailed ideas on how they should do every single thing. It can't be peaceful to be a kid in her home. She has too high standards about every aspect of their life. And we share Catholic values, and i agree, her ideas about doing things this or that way are usually "ideal" standards. But you can't impose all that on people. The kids obey when young but they bust out later. Another thorn is she aspires to the "Asian Mom ideal" (she is from Singapore), and sort of excuses herself that way. But eldest daughter, 13, is angrily rebelling already...

I just am not that way. I have high standards of how I do things but I don't impose them on ANYONE. Not even my own son. He makes a lot of choices I would never. Like I would never pick for my son to watch shows about zombies and play Assassins Creed. I suffer it in silence (or sometimes ear plugs). ( do have some "No way, not in this house"). He is SLE and totally different from me, a separate person not an extension of me and I respect he is an emerging person who is not going to make all the right choices the first time.. I wield my parental right to keep to just a few minimum standards for him with a very short list of "must do's". I was interested in the Swedish parent article recently because it was too much like how I parented, to some of the same results at times... my young son thought he was another little adult...Sometimes I worry I go too far the freedom way.

However, I do have a secret weapon to get what I ultimately want - I pray.

Don't completely count out we may be duals. [I'm IEE, and SLI seems a strong possibility for you IMO]. Consider the misinterpretations such as the one I just explained. And consider how strangely different duals are, the same only on "P". Its not the sort of "I get that!" you get with your identical. Duals don't appreciate each other when they first meet.. And we are certainly more strangers than old friends.....

And its good to get know the strange ways of your duals in your life. So when you meet one you want to date, you won't discount and overlook what coUld turn out to be a very good thing for you.

And hopefully today you learned that when she shares her strong personal values and ideas about how is the best way she should do things, you can relax because unlike your grandma she wont have ideas about how you should do things. Instead she will be ever-curious and interested in why you do what you do. I never get tired of that with my SLI. I guess its because he is so different from me.

_____________
P.S. I forgot you were in on that German New Medicine thing. I had just mentioned it, and someone jumped in who hated that theory. But the thing is, I know its different view, too different for most. And I don't talk about it IRL for the most part because for most people health matters are too personal, and tied to family tradition and ideas of those they trust, the health plan they worked hard to pay for, the doctor they trust, etc. Who wants to consider a new paradigm anyway? Few. I respect that.

I love my SLI and want him to have along life, because know we will enjoy all our moments together. I would NEVER push him. God forbid it would come to it, but if he choose radiation/chemo over natural for cancer, and I had to watching him (IMO) needlessly suffer, I still would, rather than harm him trying to impose my ideas on him. (however, he has taken to the easy part of my health regime, supplements, because he was willing, and he chooses to stick with it since he feels great on it. My Naturapath sees it as prevention so Lordwilling we wont ever have to deal with that scourge).

I never impose ideas on people. Ideas are too sacred, and the free will of persons is too scared. God would frown at me...

Why is it you can write super long posts to others but still not addressed mine? I even posted the link on your wall so you could come back to it when you had more time to post.

[Eliza Thomason]

Why is it you can write super long posts to others but still not addressed mine? I even posted the link on your wall so you could come back to it when you had more time to post.

Sorry Gem. My bad. I was feeling bad about that. There is still that other thing I was going to write and didn't. No more typing here tilI I do those two things.

[I saw that on the wall. I was going to post back on your wall and couldn't figure out how (??).]

[DaftPunk]

@Eliza Thomason

I was to focused in figuring out my type that I focused on self typing stuff and left out the relationship part. I read today quite a bit of it and I have to admit that you were completely right and I was completely wrong with what I said about duals. Sorry

[Beautiful sky]

Idk, I feel the opposite way entirely about LSI. They are very open to bending the rules, and their method of "imposition" on others does not take the form of holding others up to a invisible (not physical) set of rules. They exert/seek to exert control over objects, and with this, indirectly move people around too. The LSE type seeks to exert control over people (Si-creative, withholding rewards), and this is where pestering people over following the rules comes into play. Dear god, if that type of shit isn't LSE, idk what is.

Yes, good point

@Jim

[InvisibleJim]

@Jim

What? LSEeee?

[SyrupDeGem]

I'm here to distract your butterfly brain into replying to me and not gem.

Muahahahaha
@Geminatronix

Ebil eighties schmoozer! (I will imagine you with a crewcut- take that!)

[SyrupDeGem]

What? LSEeee?

Great you get to be a control freak and i get to be a special ed kid. Christmas has come early.

[Beautiful sky]

Great you get to be a control freak and i get to be a special ed kid. Christmas has come early.

There are more control freaks here, they are just in the closet. I feel sick having to say this by the way

[InvisibleJim]

Great you get to be a control freak and i get to be a special ed kid. Christmas has come early.

As you know I'm totally a control freak and as I know you are special ed. Maritsa is wizard at this.

[SyrupDeGem]

As you know I'm totally a control freak and as I know you are special ed. Maritsa is wizard at this.

I'm sorry I became distracted because it wasn't creative. Can you tell me again, firmly, with your T.

[InvisibleJim]

I'm sorry I became distracted because it wasn't creative. Can you tell me again, firmly, with your T.

*me licks window in the creative gestures showing, ball & chains and strict rulez*

[Kill4Me]

my only current retyping where I think the person is off by a mile would be DJ Arendee.

For now, I'll go with ENFj...same as ******.

[Eldanen]

DJ Arendee has a couple potential types according to me: ISTj, ISFj, ISTp. The most likely is the first.

[Beautiful sky]

DJ Arendee has a couple potential types according to me: ISTj, ISFj, ISTp. The most likely is the first.

have you seen his video on ESTp and ISTp? Anyone in their right mind would not mistake him for any other type except ESTp once watching those videos.

[Eldanen]

have you seen his video on ESTp and ISTp? Anyone in their right mind would not mistake him for any other type except ESTp once watching those videos.

So you're telling me that I'm insane because I don't think he's an estp?

[xerx]

@labcoat LII

@Trevor LII

@Krig the Viking LII

[Beautiful sky]

So you're telling me that I'm insane because I don't think he's an estp?

Have you seen his video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XsAof8FB1I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXYXrRja77c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72wkWBAR2TA

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Ryene Astraelis – EII. I haven’t typed-out my full analysis for her yet, why I think EII>ESI, but I believe she feels that all Delta NFs must be good, similar to the thread Galen started. It seems like she can’t reconcile being EII and having done bad things in her past. Don’t want to get into it too much here now, but cognitively she still seems very much EII. And not all EII are holy saints or any stupid crap like that.

Then you have completely misunderstood me and what I've had to say on the matter. I'd suggest some thorough re-reading.

[DaftPunk]

First time I’ve really done this in 3 years. Here are my thoughts:



Daft21 – Not sure.

I'd like to hear your thoughts if you have some

[jessica129]

First time I’ve really done this in 3 years. Here are my thoughts:
jessica129 – I do like SLI more than LSI right now, but not completely sure. They’ve been around a long time now, but I feel have never been active enough that I could see their natural style.

I never understood this typing for myself. There isn't any logical reason for it, IMO. If I'm anything other than SLI, ESI and ILI are much more probable..and yet no one ever mentions those. Just because I haven't gotten along with a lot of the IEE's here doesn't mean that I'm automatically their conflictor..I'm not accusing you of typing me based on that, but a lot of people seem to do that and it's a dumb reason. I have yet to see someone break it down and explain how on earth I am LSI.

[Kim]

Topaz – Not sure who this is.

A much much missed IEE. Wrote some great stuff in the delta subforum.

[mikemex]

* = Don't know this person well enough

1981slater - ILE
A Grain of a Song of Sand - *
Absurd - He likes to troll, if LSE he's a fucked up one
Agarina - EII
Air - SLI
Aiss - *
Allie - ESI
Anglas - *
Animal - *
anndelise - IEE-Ne
applejacks - IEE?
April - *
Aquagraph - SLE
ArchonAlarion - *
Banana Pancakes - *
Bardia - *
bg - IEI
Binky - *
blackburry - ESI
Blaze - ILE
Capitalist Pig - ILI
chriscorey - *
ClownsandEntropy - *
consentingadult - IEE
Cyrano - SLI
Daft21 - SLI
Danielle - EII
DeAnte - SLI
Deestructor - *
derpface - *
Destroypuppy - *
detail - *
dinki - Probably IEI
Director Abbie - LSE, very bright
DJ Arendee - IEE
dolphin - SEE?
Eldanen - *
Eliza Thomason - EIE, she's way too dogmatic to be IEE
Erk - *
Esaman - *
eunice - EII
Ezra - SLE
FDG - LIE. I used to perceive him as SLE but he was probably stressed. Much calmer now.
felafel - IEE
fen - IEE?
Fermi - *
force my hand - IEE?
FoxOnStilts - ILE or IEE
Galen - IEE, darwin's bulldog just like me
Geminatronix - IEE
glam - IEI?
gooey - *
GuavaDrunk - SEI?
HandiAce - IEE
heath - SLI?
Hemoglobin - *
HERO - *
hitta - IEI
hkkmr - ILE, very calm and detached
idealistichick - *
inumbra - *
InvisibleJim ILI or SLI, a bit too friendly to be ILI
Iris - *
Jadae16t - EIE?
Jarno - ILI
Jenna - *
jessica129 - Jess always looks stressed, SLI doesn't seem to fit well for her. I still think she's Delta. I'm thinking LSE fits better.
jewels - IEE?
Jimbean - *
Joy - *
jughead - *
JWC3 - LSE?
Khola - SEI?
Kill4Me - *
Kim - IEE, a nice girl
Kirana - *
Krig the Viking - Never seen a single post of this guy
labcoat - LII
leckysupport - *
Legerdemain - Some logical type
lemontrees - *
lungs - ESI, pretty stereotypical
macysmama - *
malna - *
Maritsa - EII fts the bill but Martsa is really fucked up. I don't know what her problem is. Depression maybe?
matilda - *
mercutio - SLE?
mfckr - LIE, a carbon copy of a close friend of mine, I actually like him a lot
mikemex - Who's that bastard?
mikesilb - Alpha, ESE?
Minde - *
MisterNi - I don't know but he seems attention seeking in the wrong way. Doesn't seem very confident of his own opinions
Ms. Kensington - LII?
munenori2 - IEI?
MySaviour - *
Name13 - *
nanashi - IEI?
Narc - *
NewBorn STAR - *
nigh - *
noid - *
octo - IEI?
Olga - *
Ozz - *
Pa3s - Uncommon SLI, he seems a lot brighter and less mundane than average
Park - SLI
Phthalate - *
pluie - *
Pookie - IEI?
Radio - IEE?
ragnar - *
Raver - IEE?
RedBeard - *
Reficulris - *
Rick - IEE?
Roro - *
Ryene Astraelis - I think I'm confusing her with someone else. IEE?
Saberstorm - LII
sar - *
Scapegrace - ILI. Corrosive humor. reminds me of my girl
ScarlettLux - IEI?
shakealittle - *
Shayley - *
silverchris9 - *
Simon Ssmall - IEE
siuntal - IEI?
Slacker - IEE, dualized
Sol - *
somavision - IEE?
squark - LSI
squirreltual - *
sssonyyy - *
Starfall - EIE?
strrrng - IEE?
Tackk - Some logical type
Taknamay - EII
The Ineffable - *
The Man From Nantucket - *
the16types - I don't even know who this is. I though this was the administrator account of Reuben McNew
thePirate - SEE?
Time - *
Topaz - IEE
Trevor - *
truck - ILI?
UDP - LSE?
Uniden - *
Vois - IEI?
Wacey - IEE
William - IEE?
woofwoofl - Probably SEE. I like woofie.
Words - IEE?
WorkaholicsAnon - IEE
Wynch - *
xerx - ILE?
Yaaroslav - *

Lungs forgot the little Ath, whom I like quite a bit. IEI.

[Eliza Thomason]

Okay, finally getting to this. Daylight Savings weekend.

Ok, so now to address the points in this post and give advice/feedback.



To the bolded: Again this is implying we do things differently, as you have already stated two sentences before you think i may be see, this lends the reader to imagine this as evidence you are providing. And actually Eliza, that is exactly what it is. Subconsciously or consciously you are building a public case.

But it is true, I do think we do things differently. You are calling it a public case but it feels to me more a personal case.

First, I get this impression, basically, "Not IEE". Its a conclusion, one I arrived at intuitively. Then when I say so on the forum I get asked by the ones I have dubbed "Not IEE" why I think this, so I start building a case, since i have been asked to explain. But really its not just for those. Its for me. I guess you could say I get a strong intuition of the result of a case, and then I look for concrete pieces of evidence to support the case. Because even I wonder why I intuit that something is this or that. Or, or, for example, I think I know a persons motive when I have no reason to. I listen more, and not only to see if I am right, but to figure out why I had the impression. I want to know if it is wrong, too, and why I was wrong, so I can understand my own intuition better. I know is bass askwards, but its how I do things a lot of the time.

To the bolded italicised: here you suggest that it may happen with you occaisionally but really again you are placing this separately from my reactions/behavior. If you were being fair with this you might have said something like 'I also do this occaisionally' 'this is something i can identify with' but no...time and again you place emphasis on separating yourself with the 'even though' part. What you are saying is 'look at how different Gem is from me (Read, look at the difference between SEE and IEE).

"Being fair" you say, but I think you mean being tactful. I do want to be tactful. If I should accept it as a given that you find it uncomfortable/unhappy/insulting/hurtful to be considered for possibly being any type except IEE, then yes, if that is so, it would be much more tactful to do it that way, and I want to be tactful.

Is it true, that part I bolded?

(I thought you were open to considering types because you posted a "VI me" thread.)

Yah if you did not then go on to say what you later said, which I emboldened and addressed above. I anticipated your response so my initial comment is valid. I could have been more courteous though and I apologise for that.

No problem at all.

Consider what is written above in my response and then maybe revise. I am open to different ideas, but there is a clear pattern with you which is becomming ever clearer the more we converse and the more i see your conversations with others.

I am convinced its thought process differences. But that is for another post. Answering this first.

I'm not 'rating' it. I'm suggesting you think that I do not understand you. I do understand you very well, I'm certain those others which you presume to be See who self type (we can use that it's just as good as identify as) as IEE also understand you.

Hmm, well, I am not feeling so understood in these conversations. it feels like walking through land mines. If I express myself spontaneously and let my thoughts flow I will be misunderstood. Instead, to avoid explosions, I need to tread carefully. That is not making me feel understood.

You suggest otherwise, when doing this, yourself and Maritsa makes comments about 'those see's' which is belittling as of course we are fully understanding and viewing your public discourse regarding us. This does give an air of superiority.

I am very interested in how Maritsa types things and the generalizations she makes of types. I consider her a good typer. And we don't always agree. I am interested in her approach also because it is different from mine

As far as belittling comments, I cannot comment without example. I can only say I do not belittle any type. I have had particular problems with particular types like every single person I have written about my troubles here with 2 SEEs I know, always qualifying that these problems may not be type-related, or if so the SEE problems they act out are exaggerated because of other personal dysfunctions/difficulties, and then I describe the dysfunctions, so people know I am not putting a type down.

That is the best I can answer that..

The thing here is, just getting along would be fine if you did not make the frequent references and suggestions.

To types, you mean, and why certain actions are like certain types?

Also Eliza, you do not back down and you do become frustrated just like the rest of us.

IEE, those stupid obstinate types...

Again we have yet another example of your 'us and them' attitude. I do not believe that you can not see how it appears this way. It has been pointed out to you before.

I do not yet know how I can make reference to types in the way that I normally and naturally think things through without being accused of being "us" vs. "them."

Lol at bringing in a witness. Johannes seems like a nice enough guy, I have talked with him a little, I have no idea what type he thinks I am (if he has even thought about it) but I am pretty certain he does not agree with every type you have typed.

I think I would have a lot of trouble bringing in witnesses because I think there are other types who do not want to get in this kind of conversation...

This is what makes it subjective Eliza. You will never get full absolute consensus on who is what type. It is a theory and it is self typing testing. The way these things usually (and maybe not correctly but that's another argument) works is by majority thinking. So for example in a society of 300,00 people if 200,000 think you are one specific type then you are most likely that type. On a forum Eliza we can use the same method. You and one or two other people shouting that everyone is typed incorrectly does little to change that. But of course you are entitled to believe in what ever you like.

Majority rule is interesting, and can be telling. but its something I take with a grain of salt. Because all of the people can be fooled, some of the time...

Shouting, LOL.

Ok Eliza, but that is your subjective view. It is subjective. It is not a rule or law of socionics, it is what you personally have gleaned from socionics.

I totally agree!

To be honest I am not really offended by these things either.

So glad!

I am interested in 'discussing' type but I am not interested in people 'telling me' what type I am, because i doubt that there is anyone here who understand me better than i understand myself. I accept that people can explain things to me, give me new perspectives etc but I do not accept being 'told'.

Okay, is it okay for me to tell you when I spy differences in our thinking or approach, why I think that seems like the thinking an approach of another type? (Or, in my Negativist method, its usually some point related to "Not IEE").

If that is okay to do with you, what is a non-offensive way I can touch on that subject with you?

It does make sense Eliza, you are seeing in black and white here. Open up to (or admit to) a different perspective on what 'pure and only' may mean. It has been stated for you time and again. It is your hierarchical stance on what it is to be IEE and how few are bestowed with such a title.

The word hierarchical makes no sense to me here, because it does not resonate like anything I think. I do not think any type is higher than another. I do not have a good enough view of this forum to have any idea which types are better represented. Maybe you are mixing up my words with Maritsa's, sort of like I mixed up Scapegrace and Blackberry?

You may again plead ignorance but we are going round in circles and you are refusing to break free of the circular reasoning. Your reasoning seems to be "I didn't mean it like that, yes i can now see..now that you have explained it really really clearly....that it can be offensive, oh you just don't understand me, isn't it funny how you don't understand me because socionics you are SEE and I am IEE, (cycle restarts with...) but i didn't mean it like that'.

Yes, its true, its very circular and it certainly is true that I do constantly want to say, "No, that is not what I meant." We all know what we mean, and we all see when other misunderstand it.

And its true I relate it back to IEE and SEE, or at least, my original intuition "Probably not IEE", because when we get in these circular arguments - like I do not EVER get in with IEEs IRL - then I have a great curiosity with how that fits into type. This is just the sort of thing I apply Socionics to. Its what I have done for years previously with MBTI or other personality theories before with any kind of puzzling communications in my life.

I understand much of it Eliza, I hope that my responses make myself clearer to you also.

Sort of. I am going on to the other link next.

[Eliza Thomason]

No not aristocratic, I understand aristocratic perfectly well and have annoyed several forum members with this type of behaviour. I can sometimes come across as prudish or snobby, it's not intentional and I am actually very opened minded but i find somethings tasteless and crass and I often comment on those.

Sounds perfectly IEE.

This does however vary from person to person and these specific traits are not exclusive to IEE nor does every IEE display them.

Yes.

No Eliza what I meant was hierarchical, I have yet to witness you making a positive case regarding SEE's... you frequently put them down and have issues with them, it seems to be a default mode of yours (and maritsa's especially) to place those which irk you into the SEE camp.

Better to call me on specifics.I do think you have lumped Maritsa and I together,.Its true that she and I agree that some IEEs here are not our Identicals or Mirrors, that they are our Supervisors or Lookalikes instead.

[QUOTE=Geminatronix;980813]I happen to have two SEEs in my life right now that I woudl like to improve relations with. Those are the two have written about here. I have other SEEs in my life I have nothing but pleasant relations with, and have had no need to write about them. No problems. Easy relations. The SEEs I have written about are not typical healthy SEEs but have had major life challenges that affect their functionality.

I feel that because I have written my frustrations of these two, in the past, not recently, it seems like I am putting SEEs down when I am not. I validate Maritsa when she complains about who she identifies as SEEs here because it seems to me that those people are Supervising her, and they NOT GET HER, and so I sympathize. Because the Supervisee is in the worst position, so they are the one that needs help and understanding more. (I understand also that Supervisor thinks Supervisee is acting crazy for NO REASON AT ALL).

If you look at your own posts you will see this. I for one have no issue with SEE at all, because they seriously rock. I have questioned weather I myself am SEE because i do have some triats in common asnd it has been mentioned to me before... so I have looked into it in great detail. If you could cross types together then I'd prob be IEE first with a good splash of SEE, ILE and EII In fact prob the most issues I have with any type would be SLE because of negative experiences and communication issues. Also sometimes even IEE, as i find unhealthy IEE's to be incredibly manipulative and it's very easy for me to spot this since I am (self typed) IEE myself.

Hmm, I cannot think of any IEEs that I know who are manipulative. I have my bad traits but that is not one of them. Gullible more than manipulative. Candid more than shrouded. Because of the freedom-loving thing, there is not a real push to manipulate. IEE as peace child. I have seen manipulating in an EIE I know though.

But yes, you seem open to discussing your type. Yet you are bothered by my discussing in in the same sorts of instances Ann is.

...Edit: One further question, what percentage people in the general population do you believe to be IEE and SEE?

I know you wonder about percentage but I just don't feel I can make an intelligent guess. Oh, I will give it a shot. Probably there are more SEEs than IEEs, because that is how I experience it.My WILD GUESS.

Since there are 16 types than that is 6.25 average of each type in 100 persons. Adjusting for there being more of some types than another, perhaps because of survival of the fittest and SEEs are particularly beautiful therefore have procreated more, then, 7% would be SEEs and 6% woudl be IEEs. This could be further concluded IRL because SEEs get themselves out there more, being more socializing in a more extroverted way, and IEEs are the introverted Extroverts, who socialized less. In a party they will be in a group, often with attention on them. IEE will be in a corner talking to one person, maybe too. So it can appear there are more SEE around since you can see them.

My very inexpert guess.

I'm curious here weather you are closer to maritsa's thinking that idk something like 46% of all women are SEE, or if you are more along the lines of the (Russian university) studied stats which are something like 10% of each.

That is crazy. 46% vs. 6.5 %?? Maritsa is not an expert but I have never seen her make this crazy of a guess at percentages. I would have to see it before I coud attribute tha to her. Now when you are talking about this forum, yes, some types will be more drawn to a particular interest forum and to a particular activity than another.

[Eliza Thomason]

I have been accused of being clickish with Maritsa and I disagree.

When I went on this forum I noticed some Maritsa's posts and liked what she posted. I saw that she was EII like a couple of longtime good friends I have. Later I noticed and felt bad at the sniping ugly comments I saw aimed at Maritsa and it also surprised me that someone woudl sy a mean thing and others would chine in and agree - in a clickish way Id id not like to see. It felt wrong and unfair to me. And I started reading closer to understand what was going on. I thought, "These are SEEs, and they are Supervising Maritsa. That was my initial intuition.

Its not a good thing to be a Supervisee in a Supervisor/ Supervisee confrontation. You can see the Supervisee's pain. You can see that Supervisors are is not "getting" them at all.

Being a 2 Helper type, I wanted to help the one who seemed to need help.

Like Siuntal said recently, she and I are 2 types (I had never noted this til Siuntal said it recently). So we have that in common, so besides being easy Mirror relations, we are identical in that way.

[Oaky]

That's how I feel when I love someone that I want them around a very long time.

I am more imposing about my ideas than you are ...I activate the it
You use Ne for yourself.

Hey mar? What's my type?

[Narc]

Maritsa, you need to go on typology detox. Badly.

[Eliza Thomason]

Type me, Eliza

and I call bull, lol. The standard you are saying cannot be held to everyone. No offense.

I don't know what type you are. Persian, I think.

[FoxOnStilts]

....

I'd love to hear what you type me as. Maritsa has me typed as an IEE, and I was curious to your thoughts on the matter.

[Eliza Thomason]

I'd love to hear what you type me as. Maritsa has me typed as an IEE, and I was curious to your thoughts on the matter.

I have to read more posts, fox. I have not seen any that jump out as "Not IEE"... but then I have not read your posts in a while. But I will be on the lookout and if I see something that seems like a type or not a type, I will tell you.

[Eliza Thomason]

WorkaholicsAnon – IEE and smart.

I think its only fair to point out that @WorkaholicsAnon is not the only IEE that is smart.

There are a lot of smart IEEs. Really.

[Eliza Thomason]

@Eliza Thomason

I was to focused in figuring out my type that I focused on self typing stuff and left out the relationship part. I read today quite a bit of it and I have to admit that you were completely right and I was completely wrong with what I said about duals. Sorry

Nice of you to say! Thanks.

[SyrupDeGem]

Hi Eliza! Really appreciate you took the time to address this especially considering you find it so weirisome. I feel we have gone round the same loop a few times so shal try to shuffle along the line a little further. Just to addressone point.

I'm curious here weather you are closer to maritsa's thinking that idk something like 46% of all women are SEE, or if you are more along the lines of the (Russian university) studied stats which are something like 10% of each.

That is crazy. 46% vs. 6.5 %?? Maritsa is not an expert but I have never seen her make this crazy of a guess at percentages. I would have to see it before I coud attribute tha to her. Now when you are talking about this forum, yes, some types will be more drawn to a particular interest forum and to a particular activity than another.

Eliza, It's taken from stats of the book Maritsa uses for typing people, it is an associative socionics which she believes to be the true socionics, this is why so many people (and some are people she has mistyped as SEE yes, but mostly non SEE people) find it difficult to take her typing seriously. I suggest asking Maritsa, I tried many times, which was when i began to get frustrated with a lack of response. But then her source was revealed, hence my new found understanding and lack of need for communication with her on the topic.

You only have to skim her typing list on the front page of this thread to see how skewed the type percentages are. A couple of people drew up stats charts and they were very close to the book's suggested percentages. Oddly though she revised them soon after but it seems they are drifting back again. EDIT: I do agree that some types will be drawn to certain places. I would not think that a socionics (theory discussion) forum would be the type of place you would have an overabundance of SEE's and scarcity of IEE's though. SEE's are generally doing things in the real world, or discussing things that can/will happen in the real world. Social networking sites for that reason are generally (not exclusively of course) more appealling to the majority of this type.

Also on a side note Eliza, there are plenty of people who you believe to be IEE on this forum who have no difficulty understanding me nor I them.... the idea you nurture re:lookalikes is less to do with the S/N dichotomies that you believe possibly lie between us than you think. I think it is much more to do with you having a highly developed Fe (poss role function) seeking harmony, consensus and closure versus my active and sometimes aggressive assertion in arguments, especially when i feel (someone/something is being put down). I believe this lends to you wanting more to communicate without causing offence to keep things nice and comfortable but then as you have mentioned you feel like you are walking on eggshells. There is actually no need to walk on eggshells with me, I appreciate honesty far more.

Also side note (2), You did not say 'not IEE' with me... actually you said you were not sure and thought IEE was possible. But like many other times before (which maybe you have not conciously thought of but have reference in posts) you have gone with Maritsa's suggestions and not lent enough time and energy into looking at the individual yourself. I fear that you have put a lot of weight into the views of someone you really like and not paused for much thought on multi perspectives.

Ding, ding sidenote 3. I note this constant communication of the people and events that are going on in your life. I understand your life is busy and you have a lot of distractions. I also have a busy life, and have had enough drama and tradegy to fill more than one lifetime. I rarely talk about this though, when i do it's usually in one to one conversations, even on the internet. I am actually a lot more introverted in some respects than many extroverts.

[Eliza Thomason]

Good post Gem, I will answer later. I have a heating guy coming early in morning... my heater started making today a big rumbling sound that vibrates the floor when it turns on sometimes. Like a car with a loud muffler is in the basement.... He did not tell me to to shut it down so it must not mean its about to blow up. Which is a good thing.

[Galen]

I think its only fair to point out that @WorkaholicsAnon is not the only IEE that is smart.

There are a lot of smart IEEs. Really.

He never said there weren't

[Suz]

I think its only fair to point out that @WorkaholicsAnon is not the only IEE that is smart.

There are a lot of smart IEEs. Really.

That is so very true. Also smart is relative. Often I feel dumb (especially at work).

Interestingly I find that sometimes people around me assume I'm dumber than I am when first meeting me, or if they dont get to know me well enough or hear me out. That might be the case for many IEEs here, leading to the perception of IEEs not being smart. Perhaps it's the demeanor, perhaps it's because we aren't too showy, perhaps it's the seemingly scattered thought patterns (which aren't scattered at all to us -- just a complex web that is all interconnected). Often I feel that when someone has assumed I'm dumb, it's just because they didn't understand what I was trying to say, so I need to spell it out for them.

Also, interestingly, many times I've noticed the ones assuming i'm dumb are often LSEs. Most of the time, I prove them wrong and am able to gain their respect (though it's usually because of my hardworking attitude and receptiveness to their teaching -- they usually know more than me).

[Eliza Thomason]

That is so very true. Also smart is relative. Often I feel dumb (especially at work).

Interestingly I find that sometimes people around me assume I'm dumber than I am when first meeting me, or if they don't get to know me well enough or hear me out. That might be the case for many IEEs here, leading to the perception of IEEs not being smart. Perhaps it's the demeanor, perhaps it's because we aren't too showy, perhaps it's the seemingly scattered thought patterns (which aren't scattered at all to us -- just a complex web that is all interconnected). Often I feel that when someone has assumed I'm dumb, it's just because they didn't understand what I was trying to say, so I need to spell it out for them.

Also, interestingly, many times I've noticed the ones assuming i'm dumb are often LSEs. Most of the time, I prove them wrong and am able to gain their respect (though it's usually because of my hardworking attitude and receptiveness to their teaching -- they usually know more than me).

Nice thoughts, Workaholicsanon. I should say first that even though I am too often serious I was just being silly when I wrote that. Of course smart is relative. Sometimes some smarts are just more noticeable, like working on medical degrees.

I agree with that about probably sometimes not appearing smart to certain others, yes, we are not showy (I think because I cannot think of a time when I wished to appear smart, well, job interview maybe but even then its more "suitable:" I am trying to appear. Maybe because I don't apply for jobs with a particular emphasis on "smart"). And the scattered thought patterns can be disconcerting for sure to those who take a more orderly approach to things. As to spelling it out, I do think it takes a certain kind of smart to monitor your interlocutor and adjust so they understand.

My LSE brother - he sure is smart about a lot of things. Yeah, he seems smarter than me.

[Pa3s]

I generally agree with the self-typing if I don't have any strong, contradicting impressions. This list only includes people for whom I have some sort of type suggestion.

1981slater – ILE, not much doubt about that
Absurd – LSE, also for lack of reasonable alternatives
Agarina – EII, very consistend with my personal impression of her
Aiss – ILI has always been a good type for her
anndelise – IEE
Aquagraph – ILE fits better than SLE, but I'm not entirely sure
bg – SEI
blackburry – ESI, reminds me of lungs
Capitalist Pig – ILI, most likely the creative subtype as I see parallels to myself and among all ILIs of this forum, he seems to be one of the most practical ones
Director Abbie – LSE, never even questioned
dolphin – Gamma SF, SEE seems right
Eliza Thomason – probably IEE
FDG – LIE, communication is unproblematic and naturally, similarly to most other Gammas
fen – IEE, more introverted compared to other female IEEs at the forum
FoxOnStilts – ILE fits well
Galen – IEE, he might be a bit more melancholic than the average, but he certainly is IEE
glam – IEI
HandiAce – IEE
heath – SLI
InvisibleJim – ILI
Jadae16t – LSE, a cool guy, I can't see the Beta in him
jessica129 – SLI, can't really imagine any other type for her, it seems like the most natural choice
JWC3 – SEE
Kim – IEE
Krig the Viking – LII, of the likeable variant
labcoat – LII, he also manages to be a sane person
lungs – ESI has settled for me, merry quadras are out of the question for her, anyway
Maritsa – EII might actually be her type, the only other option is ESI, imho. Not an extrovert
mfckr – LIE, stable impression, never really questioned
mikemex – actually not sure, sometimes I get an impression of criticalness and reliance on systems which more likely points towards IxTx-types, I also don't really get the F part
Minde – EII, never questioned
Pa3s – SLI, holistic impression points to that and away from INTx or any other variants
Park – SLI, seems to over-identify with his type but other types seem unlikely
Radio – EII, fits well into the Delta quadra
Raver – IEE
Ryene Astraelis – IEE
Saberstorm – some Alpha
Shayley – IEE, I see parallels to Eliza Thomason
Simon Ssmall – probably IEE, is emotionally subdued similar to mikemex (if he's IEE)
Starfall – IEI
The Ineffable – ILE
The Man From Nantucket – ILE
truck - IEI
Uniden – EII looks like a safe bet
William – is probably ESE and always has been
woofwoofl – SEE

[Airman]

The fact that this thread is the 'hotttest' thread clearly entails this forum is going downhill once again.