Hayley's husband - SEE or SLE?

[Hays]

...

[marooned]

he seems like a nice person

[EyeSeeCold]

he seems like a nice person

I was thinking the same thing. He looks very welcoming.

[Suz]

going purely by VI (which may or may not be accurate), I think he looks LSE, especially in the beach pic at the very bottom (and the serious close-up pic which i initially did not see).

In the wedding pic, is that you on the far right? If so, you VI Fi-IEE there.

In all his pics he looks Fi-valuing so definitely not SLE.

[FDG]

He looks a bit ESE.

[Words]

ESFp

[pianosinger]

SEE. He bears a strong resemblance to your friend in your other thread:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...d=1#post722844

[Suz]

SEE. He bears a strong resemblance to your friend in your other thread:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...d=1#post722844

Except I think that guy looks delta ST too.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

But everyone with a moustache is LSI.

[glam]

He looks a bit ESE.

i agree

[Suz]

A video of my husband which has been previously posted but which I will repost again just for a few days.
YouTube - grey.wmv

Hands down. LSE. (a quiet one...) Probably Si subtype.

Was undecided SLI vs LSE for a bit--until he said he's ambitious and competitive--that clinches LSE imo The rest of what he was said and how he was saying it is consistent with delta. That and he VI's delta ST, like very very clearly (to me anyway).

I dont get any Fe from him at all, guys. Delta STs are plenty jokey and can be very very funny (at least, to me). Which is good because delta NFs aren't great at making jokes.

[Flat Footed Frog]

This is my Dad. Hayley is my Mum. Dad tends to be a natural leader wherever he goes whether it be church, work or just with friends. He pulls things/people together. He delegates tasks well in a way that also means he avoids doing a lot of the hard work. He is an enthusiastic person and can be very cuddly. He loves to be loved/feel loved even by doing something small like giving him a compliment, a little head massage, a chocolate bar randomly. He always loves a 'pat on the back' for anything that he does and will often search for this pat till its given.

A bit about Mum (Hayley) is that she offers a different point of view to group discussions and people to help them think outside themselves. She is a conduit to enable deeper communication. She's the opposite of drama...not in an avoid conflict/drama way but in a avoid unnecessary conflict/drama way. She occasionally to get to the real issue can blurt something out appearikng blunt or harsh but not meaning it that way. Dad for some reason loves this about her, but if its aimed at him can take it personally until he's thought it through

[Suz]

This is my Dad. Hayley is my Mum. Dad tends to be a natural leader wherever he goes whether it be church, work or just with friends. He pulls things/people together. He delegates tasks well in a way that also means he avoids doing a lot of the hard work. He is an enthusiastic person and can be very cuddly. he constantly searches for coompliments on various things even if they are small. He always loves a 'pat on the back'.

All talents of an LSE!

Delegating tasks to avoid doing a lot of the hard work = Te + Si
All the LSEs I know are HIGHLY enthusiastic people and great leaders with a humane heart.

Gotta look at motive.

p.s. an SLE's Fe-HA is more about stupid antics intended for public entertainment, "to be loved" by the public (i.e. merry), and it's a HA so they think they're good at it when they're really not. It's not the Fi-sense of being loved by people with whom he has established relationship bonds like family (which is more the case with your father, from what i saw/heard in the video). In contrast, SLEs really have no concept of caring about such bonds, it's a foreign concept to them (Fi-POLR).

For a great example of SLE Fe-HA (perhaps inaccurately nicknamed "to be loved"), check Jim Carrey. Rachael Ray sort of has less pronounced such mannerisms. Your dad is NOTHING like that.

[Suz]

A bit about Mum (Hayley) is that she offers a different point of view to group discussions and people to help them think outside themselves. She is a conduit to enable deeper communication. She's the opposite of drama...not in an avoid conflict/drama way but in a avoid unnecessary conflict/drama way. She occasionally to get to the real issue can blurt something out appearikng blunt or harsh but not meaning it that way. Dad for some reason loves this about her, but if its aimed at him can take it personally until he's thought it through

This is because your Mom is also not Fe-valuing but very Fi-valuing if not Fi-dominant itself. The differing points of view = Ne.

And your Dad loves it because he is not Fe-valuing, much less with an Fe-HA.
Classic delta ST reaction to the harsh blunt blurts btw. And since he's LSE, he's Fi-seeking, so your Mom's efforts upholding Fi would actually be very attractive to him no matter the Fe transgression (blurting harshly, which would ruin the "emotional atmosphere" for an Fe-valuer)

[Marie84]

Please don't just assume LSI because he has a beard or moustache in some photos

btw I'm leaning towards ESE; I didn't get the impression that he was Se from the videos you posted a while back

[golden]

All talents of an LSE!

Delegating tasks to avoid doing a lot of the hard work = Te + Si
All the LSEs I know are HIGHLY enthusiastic people and great leaders with a humane heart.

Gotta look at motive.

p.s. an SLE's Fe-HA is more about stupid antics intended for public entertainment, "to be loved" by the public (i.e. merry), and it's a HA so they think they're good at it when they're really not. It's not the Fi-sense of being loved by people with whom he has established relationship bonds like family (which is more the case with your father, from what i saw/heard in the video). In contrast, SLEs really have no concept of caring about such bonds, it's a foreign concept to them (Fi-POLR).

For a great example of SLE Fe-HA (perhaps inaccurately nicknamed "to be loved"), check Jim Carrey. Rachael Ray sort of has less pronounced such mannerisms. Your dad is NOTHING like that.

Right. I'm not 100 percent convinced of LSE--but you make a very good case for it, WA. Makes more sense than SLE or SEE, and I can definitely buy him as a Delta. And I agree with your SLE descriptions and why Hayley's husband/FFF's dad is not one. Don't see the Se, don't see the Fe, basically.

[Words]

After watching the video I change my opinion from SEE to SEI.

[Jarno]

SEE

[Suz]

Right. I'm not 100 percent convinced of LSE--but you make a very good case for it, WA. Makes more sense than SLE or SEE, and I can definitely buy him as a Delta. And I agree with your SLE descriptions and why Hayley's husband/FFF's dad is not one. Don't see the Se, don't see the Fe, basically.

[twitch]

This guy in the photos can be very child-like, doing silly things like sticking straws up his nose (this was only 2 days away ) lol.

[Suz]

This guy in the photos can be very child-like, doing silly things like sticking straws up his nose (this was only 2 days away ) lol.

lol, i dont think that rules out LSE but this sort of reminds me of the SLI humor thread. I guess he could be SEI, but I feel like an SEI wouldn't be as ambitious and leaderlike, like you're describing (I could be wrong), and wouldn't be as good at delegating work in that efficient way (SEIs have Te-POLR). That and he does not come across creative Fe to me.

delta STs (especially SLIs) can really be big kids inside. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this story, but Ashton once told me about a former boss of his (who was SLI). Once Ashton walked into his office to ask him a question, and caught the SLI playing a very childish video game on the computer. When the SLI realized Ashton was there, he got self-conscious and hid that window. lol.

[Suz]

BTW your mom (hayley) VI's EII. Enough with the foolishness of thinking she's beta. You, your mom, and your sibling (?) dont seem to have a good understanding of how the functions manifest. It's really easy to think you know, but not know. Believe me I went through a couple iterations of that since I started.

[Suz]

For me every part of the equation needs to add up and I don't yet see that happening in Socionics but I do see enough to know that there is indeed truth in it. I am trying to link all of the dots or remake a seemingly endless spiders web out of Socionics in my mind and yes I often fail in knowing how the functions show themselves and get confused with contradictory information...If only I could lock myself into a type - that would be a start .

Ne with Ti-POLR

Ne likes to make things complex because it sees all these theoretical connections between things. It gathers knowledge into a complex spider web of info. Because of Ti-POLR it's then hard to organize it into a neat simple system.

You're probably IEE. Maybe that's why you ended up not relating as well to the EII descriptions.

Ni doesn't look at things in a spider-webby way, the way i understand it, Ni is a straight line through the "most likely" or "most relevant".

[Marie84]

Ne likes to make things complex because it sees all these theoretical connections between things. It gathers knowledge into a complex spider web of info. Because of Ti-POLR it's then hard to organize it into a neat simple system.

This sounds more like

[Cuddly McFluffles]

This sounds more like

Might it fit +?

[Marie84]

Might it fit +?

possibly, I just think that absorbing data and than structuring it to make sense, or seeing how it connects as WA said, is essentially how Ti works in general. I think Ti with Se is just more concrete when making these connections, whereas Ti with Ne is more reluctant to see certainty or lack of changeability in theirs

[Marie84]

Something like that. Unfortunately, you made the mistake of using the word 'theoretical', so people are accusing it of being lol.

That would be a decent argument had I even brought up the word theoretic, or even suggesting it, when replying why I see that as Ti

[Words]

That would be a decent argument had I even brought up the word theoretic, or even suggesting it, when replying why I see that as Ti

WA said that Ne likes to make things complex.. So you think Ti likes to make things complex?

Ti simplifies complex scenarios, so it sounds like WA is describing something not paired with a strong logic function.

[Marie84]

WA said that Ne likes to make things complex.. So you think Ti likes to make things complex?

Ti simplifies complex scenarios, so it sounds like WA is describing something not paired with a strong logic function.

Much like what I said to Ashton about "theoretical", I didn't post anything about complexity=Ti. I personally think any IE can look complex, particularly if it's a weak one, so I'm hesitant to even align that with any one IE.

I also should say that I don't think Ti equates to simplicity, in fact Augusta linked making complicated things simple to Ne, but I'm not even sure if that's a fair assessment (being that she was Ne dominant, and thus might have been biased)

To be clear, I'm not even certain what WA posted is Ti (hence this "sounds like" not "this is") and perhaps I'm wrong, but what she posted doesn't strike me as being indicative of Ne, but than again it could just be a matter of semantics

[Suz]

possibly, I just think that absorbing data and than structuring it to make sense, or seeing how it connects as WA said, is essentially how Ti works in general. I think Ti with Se is just more concrete when making these connections, whereas Ti with Ne is more reluctant to see certainty or lack of changeability in theirs

That's precisely NOT what I said. To simplify what I said, Ne perceives all these connections between things and is UNABLE to structure them. Hence the spider web and confusion.

If Ne is paired with Ti, ILE's are probably then able to take that spider web of info/ideas/connections/what have you and put an organized structure to it (like Aushra did in coming up with the socionics theory).

[Suz]

Hayley's husband here. Hayley seems to be forever researching for everything to make sense with socionics but with so much conflicting descriptions of the different types she can get disillusioned. When she finds some new info that gives her insight she gets excited and wants to share it with her inner circle. Highs and lows on socionics. Her mind is always trying to connect the information together.

She brings much insight (perceptive) into all the dynamics of the people around us and can also suggest how to navigate the tricky people stuff. She has a great sense of humor and laughs often (sometimes a bit of a dark sense of humor).

She sometimes dumps negative emotions and once dumped she recovers and feels happy.

Hayley is very loyal and a hard worker. She will drop what she is doing to please someone even though it may not be good for her. She can also get peopled out (including too much direct family) which causes her to go quiet. Definitely healthy for her to have regular alone time.

She has strong emotions and is very loving. She gives her life for others and is supportive. Then to make things confusing sometimes she is very matter of fact or says it how it is. Makes it hard to workout if thinking or feeling. However is very intuitive. Time out suggests to me she is introverted however she can initiate friendly conversations with people.

Hi Hayley's husband!

All of that in bold sounds like Fi-valuing with a strong but unvalued Fe. And the "drop what she is doing to please someone" sounds a lot like IEE... we want to please people we care about.

IEEs can have a sort of humor that's based in irony, which might come across as "dark".

Time out doesn't necessarily mean she's introverted--I used to think that too. With IEEs, our minds are working overdrive with all these complex thoughts, and we just are not very attuned to when we need rest so by the time we feel it, it's a little too late and we're EXHAUSTED and just need some alone time. That will happen in particular when the role function or focus on the Id functions has been required for whatever reason. (this can also reflect a self-preservation (sp) instinct in the enneagram instinctual stackings).

Here's something to assess introversion vs extraversion during those time-out periods. When Hayley is timing out: does she just sit there and do absolutely nothing? Or does she clean, watch TV, do stuff on the computer, read, knit, cook, indulge in a hobby etc etc? Extraverts need to interact with the environment even when they are in seclusion.

Studying socionics can certainly be confusing because there are so many different sorts of descriptions out there (each type sees a different type differently). And even on the forum, you hear people arguing about how,e.g. they hate Fe because of ________ and other people hate Fi because of the same thing. The reason is also because different types perceive things differently and Fe is a different "language" from Fi. So is Ne vs Ni, Te vs Ti, Se vs Si. In other words, each pair of functions perceives a similar sort of info but in a very very different way. Which is why opposing quadras like betas and deltas might be talking to each other but COMPLETELY misunderstand what each other said, what their intentions are, why they said what they said.

I think also that Hayley is focusing too much on figuring out whether she's T vs F, etc. That's an MBTI sort of way of determining type. Think about it this way: Gammas and Deltas are ALL Fi-valuing. Alphas and Betas are ALL Fe-valuing. In fact, for example ILEs (ENTp) and SLEs (ESTp) can come across as "feelers" because they overuse the Fe like crazy (it's their hidden agenda).

The way you describe Hayley, it certainly sounds like she is adept at dealing with people, and is perceptive of relationships/bonds between people and what peoples' characters and essence are. That sounds like Fi-ego. So she would be a "feeler". The fact that she can say things abruptly just means she's not Fe-valuing, so she doesn't put a lot of importance into maintaining a certain emotional atmosphere (say if she want to point out some Fi-transgression). This is also a manifestation of Te-valuing (an appreciation for accuracy is how I see it, in part of course).

Along those lines, the intermittent abrupt remarks when necessary also makes me think the Fi is creative as opposed to dominant (I do this a lot too). It can be a way of adjusting psychological distance (not always though). So again, IEE. But, i'm not as sure about whether this necessarily represents creative Fi or not (vs dominant Fi)--i think it's more what i said in the previous paragraph.

Hayley, see if you relate to this description:
http://socionist.blogspot.com/2007/0...scription.html

An IEE description, written by an IEE (Rick DeLong).

I'd read the wikisocion, stratievskaya, filatova, weisband ENFp descriptions and didn't see myself in them at all, until i came upon Rick's which was absolutely spot on. I also thought I was IEI for a while, when i was totally confused about the IM's, which is easy to do when you mix up Fi and Fe, Ni and Ne, Ti and Te, etc. I clashed pretty badly with the Betas though,much worse than Hayley has, but that could be because I'm probably not a harmonizing subtype like Hayley is.

[Suz]

Much like what I said to Ashton about "theoretical", I didn't post anything about complexity=Ti. I personally think any IE can look complex, particularly if it's a weak one, so I'm hesitant to even align that with any one IE.

I also should say that I don't think Ti equates to simplicity, in fact Augusta linked making complicated things simple to Ne, but I'm not even sure if that's a fair assessment (being that she was Ne dominant, and thus might have been biased)

To be clear, I'm not even certain what WA posted is Ti (hence this "sounds like" not "this is") and perhaps I'm wrong, but what she posted doesn't strike me as being indicative of Ne, but than again it could just be a matter of semantics

ARRRGh marie you take things way too literally, again!! You sort of realized the problem yourself--you pick apart the semantics too much, and not necessarily in a correct way either.


You're not certain what I posted is Ti, because it wasn't Ti. Like ashton said, you spotted the word "theoretical" and BAM!, comes your immediate association of theoretical=Ti. How about using your noodle a little bit and actually think and synthesize what you're reading, instead of jumping to a conclusion from an association you have with one word that happened to be included.


Ne is spider webs. It can handle the abstract you know (i.e. theoretical info).

Ti is a neat highly organized flowchart or grid.

Te is text.

Ni is a railroad.


Obviously an oversimplification, but those are sort of the images i have in mind of how those IM's work sorta.

[Suz]

I also should say that I don't think Ti equates to simplicity, in fact Augusta linked making complicated things simple to Ne, but I'm not even sure if that's a fair assessment (being that she was Ne dominant, and thus might have been biased)

That's probably because Ne + Ti aims to do so.

I dont think what i said and what you said above is mutually exclusive. My point was that Ne finds complexity in information and embraces it (as opposed to someone else who might get frightened by complexity).

In IEE's case, I think once enough Te is supplied, yes the complexity might be able to be simplified. Before that happens, it's just an incomplete haphazard spider web in the mind, awaiting more info.

I also think what Aushra was getting at is, Ne egos amass complex thoughts and concepts as if they were simple. To Ne egos, such complexity is relatively simple, compared to, for example, IEIs and SEIs who need things broken down to them in a very simple, distilled way--they dont like to be given complex info. For SEIs and IEIs it's a "keep things simple, stupid" sort of mentality and manifestation of Ti-HA.

[ashlesha]

idk, i can sometimes get frustrated with my own Ne even though its an ego function (assuming i'm self-typed correctly and i know what Ne is) because its like this perfectionism that keeps wanting to hunt down every variable. i can't really be certain of anything because there's always an "or it could be x" or whatever. and in that way i can relate to what WA is talking about, i think.

i like noodles, i prefer eating them to using them to synthesize things, though.

[Suz]

i like noodles, i prefer eating them to using them to synthesize things, though.

lollllllllllllll!!!

[Marie84]

How about using your noodle a little bit and actually think and synthesize what you're reading, instead of jumping to a conclusion from an association you have with one word that happened to be included.

This is an incredibly condescending and down right offensive thing to say. I've decided to put you on ignore since you seem to be making a lot of these statements after I question you on anything and it makes me uncomfortable. In the past I would have just addressed your post, but I really don't care about this place so much anymore, anywho, g'day

[pianosinger]

Hayley- Delta NF
Hubby- Delta ST

So here's a question for you two: does you relationship feel more like a Dual relationship or an Activity relationship?

[Suz]

This is an incredibly condescending and down right offensive thing to say. I've decided to put you on ignore since you seem to be making a lot of these statements after I question you on anything and it makes me uncomfortable. In the past I would have just addressed your post, but I really don't care about this place so much anymore, anywho, g'day

yeah right back atcha, Marie. Now there's the pot calling the kettle black!

[Suz]

Hayley- Delta NF
Hubby- Delta ST

So here's a question for you two: does you relationship feel more like a Dual relationship or an Activity relationship?

Yeah that's what i've been wondering too... Good question!

[Suz]

Hayley's husband- would like to add that she requires a large amount of intellectual stimulus resulting in considerable time on research of the humanities.

Te-HA!!