ENFps, do you feel guilty about work?

[Sirena]

ENFps, do you have work-related guilt? If so, what do you feel guilty about and how do you cope?

[Slacker]

I feel guilty about everything all the time. Guilt is a big issue for me.

When I was working outside the home, I'd feel guilty that I wasn't working fast enough, or well enough, and any mistake I'd make I would beat myself up over for ages, no matter how small.

Now I feel guilty if I haven't gotten the vacuum out yet or if there are clean dishes that need to be put away that I can't seem to get to. That kind of thing.

[Sirena]

"Guilt" is my middle name.

Slacker Mom, have you found any ways to cope with this constant guilt?

[Topaz]

uh oh Im going to have to agree with you there SM. I feel guilty all the time too. For stupid stuff. If I got a B in a class Id beat myself up for not getting an A. If my place is a mess I feel guilty about being a slob. I feel guilty for not being more successful with money even though Im have no debt. I feel guilty about not being able to be in five places at one time and on and on and on.
Now I feel guilty about feeling guilty.
A few years ago (has it been that long?) I quit a job that was stressing me out. It was working as an admin for a college. I had two women bosses (ISTJ and ESFP). It was terrible even though I think we all were trying. I was so uncomfortable I would make up reasons to be out of the office or away from my desk. They were under a lot of pressure from their bosses and they were putting a lot of pressure on me. Even though I thought they were being unreasonable and even though I knew I was not well suited for the position I still felt guilty in not being able to fix the situation and make everyone happy. Fortunately I was able to stand back and look at the situation and realize I needed to get out of there. Towards the end I just wasnt feeling good about the kind of work I was doing anyway. I was goofing off, playing on the computer, ducking out, just not being a good worker and I knew that in order to feel good about myself and my job Id have to get away an get more serious about something else. Besides, the job had served its purpose. It paid for and got me through my first two years of college which I took night and weekend classes for. I dont feel guilty about using a business to get what I want but I do feel guilty about not doing a good job.

[dbmmama]

guilt is one of the worst MFer feelings there is! lay guilt on me and you get a ration of shit! guilt be gone **poof** guilt is manipulative bullshit

(that does not mean i do not own up to something i did that was wrong or inappropriate but i will not accept guilt along with it) (this kinda sounds like Fe, like in that whole Fe/Fi thread you guys have been going back and forth on?)

[cracka]

guilt is one of the worst MFer feelings there is! lay guilt on me and you get a ration of shit! guilt be gone **poof** guilt is manipulative bullshit

You are speaking of having guilt put on you by other people it seems... where this thread seems to be about people who feel guilty on their own... I think.

[dbmmama]

You are speaking of having guilt put on you by other people it seems... where this thread seems to be about people who feel guilty on their own... I think.

yeah, i know....oh well, i kinda (understatement) go off on tangents on whatever pops in my head about the topic at hand. to me, all aspects of guilt may be relevant to getting a fuller understanding of what may be wanted/needed by the op. my way of viewing stuff...

[Sirena]

guilt is one of the worst MFer feelings there is! lay guilt on me and you get a ration of shit! guilt be gone **poof** guilt is manipulative bullshit

(that does not mean i do not own up to something i did that was wrong or inappropriate but i will not accept guilt along with it) (this kinda sounds like Fe, like in that whole Fe/Fi thread you guys have been going back and forth on?)

How do you "lay guilt" on someone? Guilt is something you just feel, not something that someone lays on you...at least for me. I can't really seem to help it. I see guilt as being internal and possibly related to Fi (not saying that only Fi ego types experience this, just that it is IMO related to this function).

What sounds like Fe, feeling guilty?

[dbmmama]

How do you "lay guilt" on someone? Guilt is something you just feel, not something that someone lays on you...at least for me. I can't really seem to help it. I see guilt as being internal and possibly related to Fi (not saying that only Fi ego types experience this, just that it is IMO related to this function).

What sounds like Fe, feeling guilty?

example for me, hubby will do this as his mother did to him...oldest son does it too:

hubby is sitting on the couch. i am walking past on the way to the bathroom. hubby asks me "will you get me blah blah over there?" (he doesn't like getting up and getting his own things he wants). i say "i have to go to the bathroom, get it yourself." when i come back through the room, he has not gotten it but tries to lay guilt on me. "will you get me blah blah?" i say "why didn't you get it yourself when i was in the bathroom?" he says "you were already going past it and i knew you'd go past it again, just get it for me." "hell no! it's your thing you wanted, i was doing something else i was in the process of doing. i will not take on guilt for something that you could have done for yourself that you wanted."

i don't think the way i wrote that conveys the guilt feeling he tries to give me for not getting it for him. and it's not like i never get whatever it is for him at different times. but when i don't do it EVERY time, he tries to make me feel guilty. no, get off your own ass and get it when i said no every once in a while.

his mother:
"oh whoa is me. if you would have done blah blah, i wouldn't be feeling the way i do right now...." guiltridden martyr. YUCK! take responsibility for your own feelings. my actions were my own actions that in no way even had anything to do with her personally and she would do that martyr bullshit all the time based on things that had nothing to do with her.

example:
we live our lives in some very untraditional ways and she would say "oh what would your father think of what you're doing!!" trying to use guilt to get us to live our lives in the ways SHE thought were "right" and "appropriate." i don't think so!!

i will not feel guilty for making my own choices in life. but i will apologize when and if something i do creates someone else's feeling to get hurt or i feel is inappropriate to the overall wellbeing of someone else, etc...and unfortunately, i have had a tendency to do this a lot unintentionally. i've learned to control it a bit as i've matured.

i'm not saying that feeling a certain way about what others do is wrong but don't lay blame and guilt on someone else for what you're feeling. your feelings are your feelings. the only one that can deal with them in any way to transform them or heal them or move on or not, is you. (you in the general sense)

i have no idea if this is Fe or Fi or not either. those two i have the hardest time seeing the difference between.

[tereg]

This thread...

ugh...

so painfully true. *sigh*

Not that this thread is bad or anything, (because it's truly not) but I feel guilty for feeling guilty (basically what Topaz briefly described, but I think is relevant).


Also, this might be useful here, since it's also true:

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...28i.e._work.29

The more something must be done, the less I do it. The less something needs to be done, the more I feel like doing it. — the IEE's work creed

Work seems to be the main bane of IEEs' existence, probably due to our tendency to get carried away easily, and also to avoid doing "boring work" until that particular mood strikes.

I find there is a certain kind of work that I can only do late at night, at or beyond the point of exhaustion. At other times of the day I just can't focus enough. It's basically that work that "must be done," but isn't what most interests me at the moment.

It seems that whenever I have gone to job interviews or begun working for people, they immediately get the sense that I'm just there temporarily — to check things out, probe the company, get to know people, learn about the industry, and move on.

Topaz adds: I usually start a job with high expectations for myself and with a sense of professionalism. As time goes on my best intentions begin to deteriorate when the mundane aspects of the job begin to wear on me. Unless the job presents me with new and interesting challenges I am usually on to another job within two years. I like to leave on a good note and fine references so I try to do a good job while I plot my escape. I once tried to work for myself but I could not keep up with all the details, taxes and junk mail that kept coming in. The more I honor the aspects of myself that I used to try to force into submission the easier things go and happier I seem to be even if it's not what others expect of me. I just tell people flat out that I'm probably not going to do certain things that I know I honestly will not do. At least it relieves me of the guilt of disappointing them later.

Is work performance a common source of guilt for IEEs? Let's find out by taking a vote:

YES:|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

NO:

Ideal work schedule for an IEE

1. Find a project you're excited about
2. Work on it for 20 hours straight or for two days straight, morning till night
3. Crash and sleep as long as you want
4. For one whole day do something really enjoyable that has nothing to do with your project
5. Spend the next day chatting with old friends and having conversations with people you are just getting to know
6. Return to step 1

I'm not having a great day today either. I overslept, my alarm didn't go off, I feel horrible today. Basically a bad dream that I had the night before partially came true. I'm all disoriented, and ... bleh... feeling guilty about not going down a slippery slope of laziness or the potential of people sort of speculating that I'm sort of "losing it".

Edit: sajfjoisafdjosa jfdjsa ;lsafd jdsa;lfd ja;ls fdddoisa jgf ljhdsajsjf;ldsa jf;lsa jdfpojaf;ldsajfsaf;ldjfdsaf;oiwajdsf;ljsaf;lsajfds afoiwe ewjf jwlf jkw foijewofj wflew jfjelw jf.k jwefj fo9 0943u0o u43uf;o jfa;lj;lksnfsan.,mfnsdx.,mvc fdsjg uoie ; jerj;le jgrjg;lhsalkd

Edit 2: I went to get a Sprite (which I don't normally get when I get a drink... and interestingly I feel like mixing or changing things up when things aren't going quite right) and I decided to put a lemon in it.

It's just carbonated water with lemon. lksajdf;l jdsafjsa;dfjsajkfdj sa;ljfd;lsa jfd;l jsa;lfd j

[dbmmama]

after thinking about it, i think that other people trying to make me feel guilty pisses me off because i already feel naturally guilty enough as it is...yowsa. for someone else to pile more on top of it, no, please.

[cracka]

example for me, hubby will do this as his mother did to him...oldest son does it too:

hubby is sitting on the couch. i am walking past on the way to the bathroom. hubby asks me "will you get me blah blah over there?" (he doesn't like getting up and getting his own things he wants). i say "i have to go to the bathroom, get it yourself." when i come back through the room, he has not gotten it but tries to lay guilt on me. "will you get me blah blah?" i say "why didn't you get it yourself when i was in the bathroom?" he says "you were already going past it and i knew you'd go past it again, just get it for me." "hell no! it's your thing you wanted, i was doing something else i was in the process of doing. i will not take on guilt for something that you could have done for yourself that you wanted."

i don't think the way i wrote that conveys the guilt feeling he tries to give me for not getting it for him. and it's not like i never get whatever it is for him at different times. but when i don't do it EVERY time, he tries to make me feel guilty. no, get off your own ass and get it when i said no every once in a while.

I'd probably be nice and do something like this once or twice and then be like... alright you lazy bastard, get it yourself, I'm not someone to be ordered around like a waitress at Applebees.

[dbmmama]

I'd probably be nice and do something like this once or twice and then be like... alright you lazy bastard, get it yourself, I'm not someone to be ordered around like a waitress at Applebees.

yeah, but we still do it in a loving, fun, caring for each other way. god, i'm really sounding Fe here.

[cracka]

yeah, but we still do it in a loving, fun, caring for each other way. god, i'm really sounding Fe here.

of course, I'd probably throw some humor in there just because it's not the type of thing that should cause any type of problem in the household... Fighting about little crap like that is what is wrong with some families out there...lol.

[dbmmama]

of course, I'd probably throw some humor in there just because it's not the type of thing that should cause any type of problem in the household... Fighting about little crap like that is what is wrong with some families out there...lol.

yeah, we're pretty open that way. we don't tiptoe around each other's feelings. we say it and get it out and deal with it, whatever it is. maybe that's why i don't think we fight much, we're always saying what we feel openly to each other. it's open communication on everything so we can understand each other and each other's point of view without having to "fight".

[Slacker]

I have no coping mechanism for guilt. It is just a part of me. It isn't as bad now that I'm not working outside the home. My husband is so laid back he doesn't really care if something isn't perfect. So long as he gets fed. LOL.

[tereg]

I have no coping mechanism for guilt. It is just a part of me. It isn't as bad now that I'm not working outside the home. My husband is so laid back he doesn't really care if something isn't perfect. So long as he gets fed. LOL.

I was going to mention this about myself.

I don't know how to cope with it either. It just is.

[dbmmama]

I have no coping mechanism for guilt. It is just a part of me. It isn't as bad now that I'm not working outside the home. My husband is so laid back he doesn't really care if something isn't perfect. So long as he gets fed. LOL.

omg, that's exactly it for me. mine has got to have "his" as well as fed and then whatever else i'm into he's "fine" with. my "hairbrained schemes" as he calls them.

[dbmmama]

I was going to mention this about myself.

I don't know how to cope with it either. It just is.

what i've learned to deal with the natural guilt inside is to do meditation, do more visualization work that "let's go" of those inner icky feelings, to carry an inner peace with me throughout whatever i'm doing "All is Well." it's taken a lot of work as well as continually needed.

[Creepy-]

Aww - poor guilt-ridden IEE's. Relax, guys. Seriously... or, rather, un-seriously. A lot of what are you worrying about is in fact very important, but so is taking the time to breathe. And how likely is the worst-case thing to happen? Not very. But if it does, life will still go on.

No worries

[Creepy-]

Please, please, please dear God, send me a SLI friend.....

And while He (She?) is at it, perhaps some more IEE's can migrate down this way.

You guys are really something. You can - and do - do so many things so well, but you worry yourselves entirely too much, and then it's like you don't want anyone to know you're worried, so you worry more... on and on. I find it fascinating and a little frustrating... and, honestly, a little adorable too. But relax. Listen to dbmmama - she's got the idea, I think....

That said, I know what you mean; there are definitely times I feel what is probably uncalled-for guilt over probably-trivial things. Meh.

[thePirate]

ENFps, do you have work-related guilt? If so, what do you feel guilty about and how do you cope?

Nope not at all.

Im really surprised that a lot of IEE's feel this way.

If you live your life according to your rules/standards, and hold them to high regard, you should feel no guilt.

[xyz]

Well, that just reminded me that I was a little bored having "only" my 60-hours-a-week job, my children, my husband and my music to care for last autumn, so I actually enrolled in university again and finished my exams last month. I received the results last week - top grade (A). I haven't told anyone about neither the courses nor the results. Not even my family or friends (only my husband, of course). I guess I feel too guilty for having done so much.... I feel like a walking contradiction more often than not. I think I told you to hear "relax!!".

You guys are cute. Relax. Can't please the world, just those ya care about.

[xyz]

mmmmmusic.....

maybe a nap at the beach?

[xyz]

Only you would think the beach is "tense"!

It's alright I guess, it's hard to nap with kids. Stick em with your parents

[dbmmama]

wow, the SLIs here. what peace just reading the comments from you guys.

my hubby is like that. "don't sweat the small stuff. it's all small stuff."

i work really hard to relax. hahaha!! lol

we've been hustling and bustling a lot lately and we both were talking about how this is not good at all. chill out, chill out.

we have beautiful sunsets here and they are one of my absolute favorite things in the world. my favorite thing to paint as well. i made a point a couple of days ago to stop and look up at the sky and it was so beautiful and peaceful. oranges and grays and blues, streaking across the sky, merging into each other, the quiet outdoors. peace.

peace in the world begins with peace from within. (i read too many self help books)

thanks guys. that helps already.

[Creepy-]

wow, the SLIs here. what peace just reading the comments from you guys.

my hubby is like that. "don't sweat the small stuff. it's all small stuff."

i work really hard to relax. hahaha!! lol

we've been hustling and bustling a lot lately and we both were talking about how this is not good at all. chill out, chill out.

we have beautiful sunsets here and they are one of my absolute favorite things in the world. my favorite thing to paint as well. i made a point a couple of days ago to stop and look up at the sky and it was so beautiful and peaceful. oranges and grays and blues, streaking across the sky, merging into each other, the quiet outdoors. peace.

peace in the world begins with peace from within. (i read too many self help books)

thanks guys. that helps already.

No problem - I hope you guys are stressing less.

dbmmama, is your avatar a picture you took of a sunset where you live? If so, I'm moving there

[dbmmama]

No problem - I hope you guys are stressing less.

dbmmama, is your avatar a picture you took of a sunset where you live? If so, I'm moving there

yes, phx, az. one of many.

[Sirena]

Thanks guys, for contributing to this thread. The day I created it I was having a terrible day, feeling guilty for just about everything, especially my job. The problem for me has been that I have put myself in situations that constantly remind me of my weaknesses. I don't get to use my strenghts nearly as often as I'd like and instead get totally worn out and exhausted by having to do things on a constant basis that require the use of my weaknesses. This, I'm sure, only accentuates my natural tendency to feel guilty. This whole guilt thing I feel so frequently is something I've been thinking about lately, realizing just how much a part of my life it is. It extends to every area of my life. I have started to identify what my strong and weak areas are, which in turn should help me accept that it's okay to not be good at everything and give me a better idea where I can fit in. That description from the wiki that tereg quoted fits me to a T, as well as what most of you here have said. It's good to know I'm not alone!

Is there a socionics explanation as to why this is so overwhelmingly experienced by IEEs? I have a feeling that that combination of Ne and Fi can contribute a lot to this. As of now, my explanation still consists of a bunch of scattered thoughts in my head that I can't put into words. Would anyone else like to try?

[jewels]

I used to also have a problem with guilt, and it's TOUGH for ENFps...but I think I've figured it out for myself, as in a way that works. May or may not work for you...

Thing was, I used to be really bad about work -- if I had one typo I would almost cry and feel bad about it for a week or more. I'd assume I would be fired for making any mistake (which technically could happen) and would spend evenings worrying if I had made any, or would make any the next day...ick! lol. I felt guilty all of the time even though I was doing fine at the job -- but i was almost using it as negative motivation to work hard I think.

I finally decided to get out of that line of work. And now I'm much better w/ it. I realize I am just plain bad at some things, and now when I make typos (often) I let it go. I'm also bad with scheduling so have to write in a planner etc...I know I'm likely to forget certain things and anticipate that.

You can't feel guilty if you've done actions you are comfortable with, and feel like you've done your best.

I then figured out what things really matter to me and what don't. And I no longer care about the rest. However, if anyone criticizes me, or tries to make me feel guilty, I will still feel bad of course. but in the end who cares if I don't agree that I should have done things their way, right?

To avoid guilt, I have figured out which situations make me feel guilty, and I don't get into situations like that. I think being clear on your values helps a lot. Because now I almost never feel guilty, and I used to a LOT.

Usually, I feel guilty when I'm not living up to what I know I'm capable of, or hurting anyone on purpose or not -- so, when I'm lazy or blow someone off, or am not as nice as I could be, etc. I'm not perfect at it, but i try to be clear with myself about what I'm doing and why, i.e., my place is a mess because I have an important project and don't care that all my jeans are on the floor, but I will keep the kitchen clean because that's fair to my roomate, etc. Or, I'll get somewhere early, when I'm otherwise inclined to be late, because I know it makes my friend uncomfortable to have to wait alone, and I don't really mind waiting alone, etc.

That seems to really help a lot. And the rest of things, I don't worry about.

Guilt is a pretty pointless emotion anyway. So, just take different action (this time or next time), and/or forgive yourself and forget about it.

[Park]

Guilt is not a bad thing as it usually comes from a feeling of responsibility for your actions. Bad are people who avoid admitting their guilt even when it's pretty obvious to them, and those who try to transfer their responsibility to someone else. Not to mention people who whine about how their intentions have been good and how they've done all their best etc... Good intentions are not an excuse for irresponsible actions. And guilt is not something you prescribe to your weak socionics functions so you'd feel better about it. People who can't deal with negative emotions (especially their own) are pussies. And pussies have no dignity.

[Sirena]

I used to also have a problem with guilt, and it's TOUGH for ENFps...but I think I've figured it out for myself, as in a way that works. May or may not work for you...

Thing was, I used to be really bad about work -- if I had one typo I would almost cry and feel bad about it for a week or more. I'd assume I would be fired for making any mistake (which technically could happen) and would spend evenings worrying if I had made any, or would make any the next day...ick! lol. I felt guilty all of the time even though I was doing fine at the job -- but i was almost using it as negative motivation to work hard I think.

I finally decided to get out of that line of work. And now I'm much better w/ it. I realize I am just plain bad at some things, and now when I make typos (often) I let it go. I'm also bad with scheduling so have to write in a planner etc...I know I'm likely to forget certain things and anticipate that.

You can't feel guilty if you've done actions you are comfortable with, and feel like you've done your best.

I then figured out what things really matter to me and what don't. And I no longer care about the rest. However, if anyone criticizes me, or tries to make me feel guilty, I will still feel bad of course. but in the end who cares if I don't agree that I should have done things their way, right?

To avoid guilt, I have figured out which situations make me feel guilty, and I don't get into situations like that. I think being clear on your values helps a lot. Because now I almost never feel guilty, and I used to a LOT.

Usually, I feel guilty when I'm not living up to what I know I'm capable of, or hurting anyone on purpose or not -- so, when I'm lazy or blow someone off, or am not as nice as I could be, etc. I'm not perfect at it, but i try to be clear with myself about what I'm doing and why, i.e., my place is a mess because I have an important project and don't care that all my jeans are on the floor, but I will keep the kitchen clean because that's fair to my roomate, etc. Or, I'll get somewhere early, when I'm otherwise inclined to be late, because I know it makes my friend uncomfortable to have to wait alone, and I don't really mind waiting alone, etc.

That seems to really help a lot. And the rest of things, I don't worry about.

Guilt is a pretty pointless emotion anyway. So, just take different action (this time or next time), and/or forgive yourself and forget about it.

Thanks jewels! This is my take on the whole guilt thing too. I am definitely working towards being more accepting of myself and being more conscious of the situations I put myself in. I've also started to accept the fact that the constant self-analysis that produces this feeling of guilt is simply part of who I am. However, I am trying to find ways to minimize it. Ironically, accepting that it's part of who I am has already helped with that. My job has never felt quite right, but I am seriously starting to realize that it's simply not the place for me. I'm starting to look at all the possibilities now (this is the cool thing about Ne) and I'm starting to get excited about them. I like the way you describe your motivations for doing certain things here. I'm also motivated by the same things.

[consentingadult]

Is there a socionics explanation as to why this is so overwhelmingly experienced by IEEs? I have a feeling that that combination of Ne and Fi can contribute a lot to this. As of now, my explanation still consists of a bunch of scattered thoughts in my head that I can't put into words. Would anyone else like to try?

I experience it as a combination of Fi (self-sacrifice, ethical behavior) and Te (efficiency and perfection/performance). In my particular case, it is because of rejection in my youth. I so discussed this with my therapist yesterday, the roots are in one or more critical parents who apply conditional love. Caretakers for whom your performance is never good enough, in combination with your own temperament. 'Unrelenting Standards' can then become a maladaptive behavior pattern. The guilt is caused by either feeling that you're not performing up to self-imposed standards, or because of procrastination (as it is in my case).

It overlaps with this discussion here:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=20390

About three months ago I started working on my so-called 'unrelenting standards' schema, and the guilt is gradually getting less. Last week I took off from work, and it was probably the least guilt ridden week of my life, despite the fact that there is a lot of stuff that 'must' be done

[Sirena]

I feel guilty for not being frank with people who I think have a higher social status.

I don't relate to this. Status doesn't enter into it for me.

Are you IEE now, dee?

[consentingadult]

Maybe it's something else though... like for example maybe avoiding offending people or something like that...

Sounds like you're fishing for something here. Let's hear it, what's on your chest?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Thanks for open heart and all but dude, I'm just chilling around here, just like you, you know? Sorry if my style is a bit "out of norm". Are you an EIE by any chance?

Are you sure you don't need to talk about something or are you just saying?

[FDG]

what's on your chest?

That line is best used on a girl

[FDG]

Ahaha

I forgot to add, don't try this at home!

[consentingadult]

Thanks for open heart and all but dude, I'm just chilling around here, just like you, you know? Sorry if my style is a bit "out of norm". Are you an EIE by any chance?

No, you're style is not out of the norm, you can express yourself in any way you feel comfortable with.

And no, I'm not EIE. I'm uncertain about a lot of things, but not about valuing Delta values. As for my exact type, I probably am an SLI acting out as an IEE, or an IEE who's trying very hard at becoming an SLI. Probably the last.

Perhaps someone else can provide a compelling argument for whatever type.