BUY GOLD NOW

[Ezra]

If you have any wealth or savings, get it in gold. It will only continue to rise, while everything else crashes. If you've been following the news, you'll see that the dollar is weak, and gold is just stably rising. It's THE safe haven for these times of uncertainty.

Dunno if in the US it's the same, but in the UK these ads started popping up all of last year saying "CASH 4 GOLD" etc, where they will buy your gold cheaply, because obviously they knew it was on the rise. Soon, cash could mean very little. And gold will be like it always was: the precious currency to barter in.

So get your act together and save REAL money.

Unless, like me, you have a mound of debt and fuck all "wealth". Then just laugh as everyone else's savings goes to shit when you told them it would and they laughed at you.

[Simon Ssmall]

Investing in real estate was also a very good idea as the price were rising for a very long time.

[discojoe]

Aw, little Ezra.

He's right though.

[Simon Ssmall]

He's right though.

How much gold did you buy?

[EyeSeeCold]

Ironic that if everyone acts on the idea that Gold with increase, so they must rush to buy it now, the price will indeed inflate.

"Don't start nothing, won't be nothing"

If you have any wealth or savings, get it in gold. It will only continue to rise, while everything else crashes. If you've been following the news, you'll see that the dollar is weak, and gold is just stably rising. It's THE safe haven for these times of uncertainty.

Dunno if in the US it's the same, but in the UK these ads started popping up all of last year saying "CASH 4 GOLD" etc, where they will buy your gold cheaply, because obviously they knew it was on the rise. Soon, cash could mean very little. And gold will be like it always was: the precious currency to barter in.

So get your act together and save REAL money.

Unless, like me, you have a mound of debt and fuck all "wealth". Then just laugh as everyone else's savings goes to shit when you told them it would and they laughed at you.

[Slacker]

The issue I have with gold is that it still doesn't have any intrinsic value, only the value that is assigned to it. If you learn to do something that makes you more self-sufficient, that has an intrinsic value. If you learn to do something that can be a bartering tol, that seems to have more intrinsic value too. But just because gold has historically been the one thing that has always had value doesn't mean it will always continue to, or that it will have the level of value you're hoping for.

Also, if you think the banks are going to not collect debts, I think you're dreaming.

[EyeSeeCold]

The issue I have with gold is that it still doesn't have any intrinsic value, only the value that is assigned to it. If you learn to do something that makes you more self-sufficient, that has an intrinsic value. If you learn to do something that can be a bartering tol, that seems to have more intrinsic value too. But just because gold has historically been the one thing that has always had value doesn't mean it will always continue to, or that it will have the level of value you're hoping for.

Also, if you think the banks are going to not collect debts, I think you're dreaming.

Gold has intrinsic value because it's rare. Half the world loves rare items. It has functional uses beyond decoration, but they are not the main driving force behind its economic activity.

[Slacker]

I don't see rarity as giving something an intrinsic value. It has to be useful to have an intrinsic value, like feed you or keep you warm.

[Timmy]

If you have any wealth or savings, get it in gold. It will only continue to rise, while everything else crashes. If you've been following the news, you'll see that the dollar is weak, and gold is just stably rising. It's THE safe haven for these times of uncertainty.

In the long run, the dollar is headed down, probably way down. Of that much I'm confident. What's considerably less obvious is that gold will perform as well relative to currency as you seem to anticipate it will. You see, gold rises with expectations of a currency crisis, but not necessarily during a currency crisis. Smart money began moving into gold over a decade ago on account of the same underlying trends that now threaten to undermine global stability, dollar reserve status, and US/EU economic dominance. Since then, the price of gold in dollars has increased nearly 500%. Over the same period, the value of the dollar has declined between 10% and 30%, depending upon how you do the math. The bottom line is that the emerging currency/economic predicament is, to a certain extent, already factored into the price of gold. If the US suddenly figured it's shit out, the price of gold would fall dramatically. The situation is much the same in the UK.

A much better bet would have been to invest in silver approximately 6 months ago, as it had experienced very little of gold's upside up to that point. Today, however, silver could just as well correct @30%+ as continue rising, and though gold is in a less precarious position, and will likely continue rising in the long run, returns will not be as dramatic as you might have hoped. If you wanted true wealth protection against inflation and decline in the dollar relative to other currencies, you needed to get into gold 10 years ago.

In all likelihood, gold will be run up quit a bit more if news continues to suck, which almost certainly it will. However, in all likelihood, it will correct sharply once it does finally peak, reaching a long run equilibrium that may be no higher than today's price (and perhaps lower). If you aren't good at timing these sorts of things, I wouldn't recommend placing all your money in gold. And for the record, equities also serve as a hedge against inflation (albeit an imperfect one). Another option is TIPs, "inflation protected treasury notes," about which I have very mixed feelings given the questionable way in which the gov tabulates inflation.

[Jarno]

buy gold 10 years ago, sell gold now.

[Jarno]

Investing in real estate was also a very good idea as the price were rising for a very long time.

yep, the castle in the sky strategy, aka, there is always a bigger dumbass who will buy from you at a higher point. Except when... you are the biggest dumbass left.

[FDG]

buy gold 10 years ago, sell gold now.

lol. Yeah.

I'd rather buy chocolate bars.

And then eat them, ofc.

[Slacker]

Also, if you're in debt, the bank you owe money to will eventually own your gold if you can't pay your debt back. No crash is going to involve rich people forgetting what people owe them. They'll make sure they get theirs.

[EyeSeeCold]

I don't see rarity as giving something an intrinsic value. It has to be useful to have an intrinsic value, like feed you or keep you warm.

Yea I know, valuing. I was referring to valuing though.

[Timmy]

Also, if you're in debt, the bank you owe money to will eventually own your gold if you can't pay your debt back. No crash is going to involve rich people forgetting what people owe them. They'll make sure they get theirs.

Not if you buy physical gold and bury it in your backyard.

[Slacker]

Make sure you dig it up before they own your backyard.

[717495]

lol. Yeah.

I'd rather buy chocolate bars.

And then eat them, ofc.

[Ezra]

Aw, little Ezra.

Aw, little Ashton. What are you doing with your little sad Aderall-ridden life at the moment?

ETA: are you still living with your parents?

[Timmy]

I don't see rarity as giving something an intrinsic value. It has to be useful to have an intrinsic value, like feed you or keep you warm.

Gold is valuable both because it's supply is limited and because everybody knows that everybody else knows that everybody else knows...that it is valuable. Gold has been considered a store of value since forever, and that's not changing any time soon. The only way gold becomes worthless is if literally EVERYONE is starving fighting for survival. As long as there exist sporadic pockets of wealth, gold will hold value as a medium of exchange (though perhaps not as well as, say, guns and liqour).

[FDG]

Besides, Ezra, you probably have thousands of pounds of debt (I'm not saying it's your fault, I know school is a bitch in the UK). It's easier to work towards estinguishing that reserve rather than trying to find good investment opportunities for a limited capital.

edit: sorry, I didn't read the last part of your post, my bad.

[Timmy]

Besides, Ezra, you probably have thousands of pounds of debt (I'm not saying it's your fault, I know school is a bitch in the UK). It's easier to work towards estinguishing that reserve rather than trying to find good investment opportunities for a limited capital.

If you are in debt, Ezra, you should embrace inflation. It will make your debt easier to service/pay-down.

[Slacker]

Gold is valuable both because it's supply is limited and because everybody knows that everybody else knows that everybody else knows...that it is valuable. Gold has been considered a store of value since forever, and that's not changing any time soon. The only way gold becomes worthless is if literally EVERYONE is starving fighting for survival. As long as there exist sporadic pockets of wealth, gold will hold value as a medium of exchange (though perhaps not as well as, say, guns and liqour).

The only way gold has value is if you find someone who wants to buy it, and then who wants to pay more than you paid for it.

[FDG]

If you are in debt, Ezra, you should embrace inflation. It will make your debt easier to service/pay-down.

Unless it's not fixed-interested debt. Although, I suppose it should be.

[krieger]

the last time there was a major financial crisis, the value of the dollar abruptly went up, not down.

[munenori2]

image went to hell

[pianosinger]

Slacker, I love all your replies in this thread

I've said it before, but I believe more in investing in things like food, toiletries, batteries, alternative fuel, water...even OTC medications. Keep that stuff stored away for an emergency, and when disaster strikes, we will be pretty self-sufficient, AND have enough extra stuff to barter for the things that we didn't think to stock up on.

If/when apocalyptic times strike, people are going to be less worried about collecting cash and more worried about feeding their families.

[pianosinger]

haha! reminds me of a book I once read, by "Ted L. Nancy." This guy, for fun, went around mailing entirely fictional letters to people, eliciting outrageous responses. Then, he collected them all and made a book.

Here's his official website, apparently: http://www.tedlnancy.com/

Okay, that picture ^ was NOT the one I was trying to quote...

[Nico1e]

If you buy physical gold or silver coins and keep them anywhere (buried in the backyard, or perhaps underneath an Egyptian pyramid in a cursed mummy sarcophagus that only Indiana Jones can find and break into), then you need to keep track of several important pieces of information about the coins when you bought them.

I haven't done this yet, but it is something that I will probably do in the future. It is helpful to know how much purchasing power something had at the time when you bought it, versus how much purchasing power it has at the time when you sell it. Your coins are able to purchase a particular amount of dollar bills at any given time. They can also purchase a particular amount of other commodities, like grain, oil, etc, or non-material things like human labor. It is helpful to record some ratios telling you what your coins are worth in comparison to those various other things at any time. This will help you decide how valuable your coins are when you try to sell them.

The dollar value of metals will not keep going up and up forever, but will instead have ups and downs. Think the unthinkable: the price of gold and silver could suddenly collapse tomorrow for unknown reasons. Would your coins have any value? My answer is yes, they would, but you need a method of calculating what that value is. A way to calculate their value is to compare them to the prices of many other things, which will also change in price at the same time that your metals suddenly collapse. If metals collapse, so will a lot of other things, like oil, grains, etc. Many things will all go down at the same time. This is why you cannot just measure them in terms of dollars, but must also compare them to the prices of other commodities. In terms of dollars, it might seem like your coins have 'lost value' when they really have not.

It would require a spreadsheet and some research.

[silverchris9]

I don't understand.

Stores of value are all about mutual faith, right? That is, I have faith that you will accept this in return for a good or a service because you have faith that the next guy will accept it in return for a good or a service, etc., etc.

So, if the world is crumbling and people are going to stop having faith in the American dollar, why does faith suddenly repair to a shiny rock that has no more intrinsic value (apart from its scarcity) than the unshiny piece of paper? I mean, historical precedent, sure, but if it's really chaos, than people shouldn't believe in anything except for the valuable object, not the store of value. I mean, are people really so stupid that once they disbelieve in one inherently worthless store of value, they immediately begin believing in another inherently worthless store of value?

I get the idea of scarcity, but that still has no bearing on intrinsic value vs. value that we have all agreed to pretend exists. While gold is desirable because it looks cool I suppose, it really has far less intrinsic value than necessary things like food water and shelter, and as far as I'm concerned, less intrinsic value than something that provides me with more durable entertainment, like a book, an ipod, an xbox, a source of electricity to run the two electronic ones.

Economics should prove once and for all that people believe firmly and inescapably in necessary fictions, no matter how rational or empirical they believe themselves to be (another necessary fiction). If this upcoming financial meltdown of epic proportions (which may never occur---the Roman Empire fizzled out, it didn't explode in a blaze of glory and sorrow) does nothing but to correct some of the excesses of Enlightenment-style thinking that still persists in our culture today, I am at the very least ambivalent towards it.


Also Timmy's answer was really smart.

[munenori2]

I think the main issue in this thread isn't about apocalyptic global market collapse where you need to stock up on necessities in order to survive, but rather severe market shocks/hyperinflation that wipe out savings or devalue what currency can get you. Of course if the world went to absolute hell tomorrow due to zombies/aliens/supergodawfulmegaflu, gold wouldn't really be worth all that much in terms of value for use, but if that were really the case, you're probably better off owning guns, living in defensible, obscure places, and having readily available access to sources of food and water.

More likely though, as bad as an US market collapse would be, you have to keep in mind that the world is a huge place and although it would have extreme ramifications for the global economy, the world would probably go on, just things might get very shitty for a good long while. We're prone to a lot of American-centrism here that I think kind of skews everything towards a so-goes-the-US-so-goes-the-world perspective.

[Creepy-male]

actual gold doesn't really have value because its "rare", it's merely a logical choice for a currency as it is relatively solid and inert. If I drop a chunk of gold on the ground and no one intervenes, its still going to exist as a chunk of gold in its same shape, luster, structure etc for thousands of years.

money itself is rather meaningless as the money is merely a "middle man" to between the exchange of goods and services between people.

Giving away goods and service entitles you to acquire money
Receiving goods and services entitles you to give away money

It is merely a method of keeping track of these goods and services, which has existed as a concept for thousands of years in civilized agricultural societies.

Gold is a logical candidate for money as it will keep its structure.

Now I can hear the skeptics at this point....

Then why does our current system use paper? Are you telling me we are less advanced than ancient economies? Are you seriously telling me people in ancient times decided gold was the best option for money on the basis of it being chemically inert when chemistry didn't even exist? Sounds like a bunch of Ne-bullshit!


1) Then why does our current system use paper....

For massive economies it makes more sense to use paper as paper is a relatively common commodity and can easily be reproduced and printed on in mass quantities without requiring as much extensive manufacturing as gold coins and it is also available in greater quantities.

Note this only makes sense in a society of a certain size, before a society reaches that threshold it doesn't make sense as their isn't enough economic infrastructure to mass produce and the tradeoff in manufacturing cost/time is relatively insignificant, also less quantity of tender is required so the concept of running out of money is less likely to occur.

Finally gold is more stable than paper, as paper can easily burn, become damaged and so forth and gold cannot. This makes sense in our society as money is tightly regulated by the government. They take money in and pass it through the secret service to look for conterfiet money as well as decide how much to print and what tender is old. Without an extensive agency to track money, paper money would easily disappear or become damaged and useless in a matter of maybe a single or a few generations.

2) Are you telling me we are less advanced than ancient economies?

By the contrary, ancient economies used physical tender or even perhaps made deals/bartered for a direct exchange of goods and services.

The recent economies work on the basis of regulated paper notes, banks, loans, savings, debt, interest, and electronic money. It's possible to actually possess wealth without any physical signifying item to this wealth or any particular product/service in your possession. This is all regulated and kept track of by the government, information infrastructure, and banks.

3) Are you seriously telling me people in ancient times decided gold was the best option for money on the basis of it being chemically inert when chemistry didn't even exist?

No likely people in ancient times were unaware of its chemical properties. Instead it was likely gold was realized for its pristine unorganic quality (which ultimately is a result of its chemical properties). It was easily shaped (making it a smart option to make coins out of and print a chieftans symbol) as well as being somewhat interesting as it was a unique color and had a shiny luster (once again due to its chemical properties). This unique color and shiny luster made it easily distinguishable as something unique, so it was harder to counterfeit fake money. Finally being metal it doesn't take a scientist to observe the rigidity and strength of metal, making it a smart choice for something you want to keep around for a while.

4) Sounds like a bunch of Ne-bullshit!

No it is not.




It's smart to invest in gold if you have little faith in your government's economy, as gold is a rather universal form of wealth, and notes/banks are largely subject to the regulation of some government with exchange rates being a function of international economic relations. In my opinion its even smarter to invest in goods and services as this is the most direct form of wealth.

[Ezra]

If you are in debt, Ezra, you should embrace inflation. It will make your debt easier to service/pay-down.

Yeah, discojoe was telling me this too. He gave me the economic principle although I'm still at a loss as to how it works. Surely the interest would inflate with the loan?

Unless it's not fixed-interested debt. Although, I suppose it should be.

It is, yes.

Disemboweling winos and prostitutes to sell their organs on the Chinese black market for more Adderall. You?

Ahhh, you're not acquainted with Charlie Garab by any chance are you? Goes by the name of koolkatkuhner or BADMAN. There's another name for him, something like vertical bear.

No. I'm coming to live with yours.

My parents are dead. They were a wino and prostitute.

[07490]

Disemboweling winos and prostitutes to sell their organs on the Chinese black market for more Adderall. You?

I just got a new pair of kidneys. which Chinese black Market you sold it to? the Flying Dragon?

[Capitalist Pig]

If you put your dollars into gold, you should have done it a long time ago. Spot gold prices are around $1500/oz. and silver is approaching $50/oz.

[Ezra]

If you put your dollars into gold, you should have done it a long time ago. Spot gold prices are around $1500/oz. and silver is approaching $50/oz.

It's a good point. Sadly those who didn't invest but who have a lot of cash just have to look on.

[Capitalist Pig]

Gold has a wide range of industrial applications, mostly as thermal conductors and electrical leads.

[Timmy]

Yeah, discojoe was telling me this too. He gave me the economic principle although I'm still at a loss as to how it works. Surely the interest would inflate with the loan?

Like somebody else mentioned, that depends upon whether you have a fixed or floating rate loan. You often can chose which kind of loan you want. Fixed rate means your interest payments do not change with inflation. Floating rate means they do (they are indexed to some measure of inflation; if prices increase by 5%, your interest payments increase by some set percentage of that 5%).

During inflation, prices AND SALARIES go up. If your debt payments are fixed, servicing them will require a smaller and smaller percentage of your anuall salary, which is a good thing.

If you are convinced there will be high inflation and you still have any control over which sorts of loans you are taking out, go with fixed rate. With fixed rate, If there ends up being low inflation you'll come out a little worse off, but if inflation is high you'll come out much better in the long run.

[Timmy]

Gold has a wide range of industrial applications, mostly as thermal conductors and electrical leads.

let's be honest though Cpig, if gold were only used industrially, it'd be about as valuable as aluminum (which goes for ~$1.25/lb).

[Korpsy Knievel]

haha! reminds me of a book I once read, by "Ted L. Nancy." This guy, for fun, went around mailing entirely fictional letters to people, eliciting outrageous responses. Then, he collected them all and made a book.

Here's his official website, apparently: http://www.tedlnancy.com/

Jerry Seinfeld, boooooooooooooo!

[Creepy-Snaps]

I want a golden toilet!!!

@topic though, I am not so pessimistic of the US economy anymore. Unemployment has fallen a whole point to 8.8% now, and Congress' new plan of reducing the deficit by trillions over the next few years should strengthen the dollar.

So don't buy gold, buy real estate.