Gwyneth Paltrow

[Ritella]

type her pleasssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

i think she's commonly typed as INFj but I always thought she might be INFp.

here's a video that's been dubbed over in German. It's good for seeing her mannerisms, though:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...92181075&hl=en

here's another one where she talks about family:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?...nterview&emb=0

I actually think she is probably delta NF from these interviews. I think she does a lot of these little things that I do when people interview me- she looks up a lot, pauses and thinks a bit in her head, tries to sort of separate herself from the interviewer in order to consider the question, drags out her words, doesn't really seem to care about how eloquent she appears, seems more focused on just being honest, spastic hand motions...
also, all her weird diet obsessions seem a bit stereotypically EII Si HA.

INFps, do you identify with her at all in the videos?
I just seriously don't understand the Madonna friendship.

[Ritella]

yeah. that was one of my main thoughts as well. Madonna scares me through the tv. I can't imagine hanging out with her.

[machintruc]

Paltrow is a stereotype of EIE.

[Slacker]

That musician Chris Martin she's married to is apparently a vegetarian himself. I've noticed this in a number of Beta couples (devalued Te and Si perhaps.)

You know, that's odd because I know a lot of Beta vegetarians too. I know vegetarians who aren't Beta, in fact I know an ENFp/ISTp vegetarian couple, but most vegetarians I know are Betas. Particularly the strict ones, like vegans or people who don't even want you to eat meat around them. I'm not saying that vegetarianism is a Beta thing, but I think that it fits into some Beta values.

Sorry for the threadjack there.

[Joy]

looks Ne to me

[Ritella]

that's true about the Beta vegetarian thing. Almost all the ones I know are Beta. I think they do it for humanistic reasons.
With Gwyneth, if I remember, she was on a macrobiotic diet because she seriously thought it was "healthy." IME extreme or restrictive diets (like, "i can't eat the food that most people eat because i'm hypersensitive to it') is usually a sign of Si HA, though I've noticed that ESFPs can have sort of bizzare eating hang ups as well.

[Ms. Kensington]

i gave my opinion many times that I think she is INFj or ISFj.

[Joy]

Se PoLR > Se super id > Se creative

[JuJu]

Seems very adept at Ne... Doesn't show Fi, rather Fe, but I perceive an undercurrent of Fi throughout what she says... INFj, IMO (and very attractive)

Comes across as less 'serious' and 'cold' than N. Kidman, who I believe to be LII.

Actually, the more that I watch Paltrow, the more that Delta values become clear... Her husband may be ENFp.

[Joy]

I've never had a problem with Madonna.

[ScarlettLux]

The thing is, Madonna is actually really off putting to me as well. She seems like somebody who would intimidate me, somebody who I would generally avoid. If Gwen is INFj, maybe this would point to Madonna actually being some kind of Te ego type.

AGREED! Can we PLEASE put a rest to the Madonna SLE typings ?!! She is NO SLE

[Ms. Kensington]

I think there are reasons Deltas might have unusual eating habits, too. Say Paltrow's husband is IEE (what little I knew of him had me think EIE, but Quasi at first glance is an easy mistake to be made.) Then you might have two Te+Si super-ids living togeather doing show business, which itself already imposes a lot of unusual stress on physique, rest, etc.

in all the other paltrow threads, i think Chris martin the husband is ENTj. never considered enfp, ill think about it.

[hellothere]

The thing is, Madonna is actually really off putting to me as well. She seems like somebody who would intimidate me, somebody who I would generally avoid. If Gwen is INFj, maybe this would point to Madonna actually being some kind of Te ego type.

Madonna scares me too.

[ProcrastinateTomorrow]

I found a very cool video. She can totally be herself, No interviewer, No expectations just her being her.

[Krig the Viking]

I found a very cool video. She can totally be herself, No interviewer, No expectations just her being her.

YouTube - Quick Roast Chicken & Potatoes

Seemed like there was a lot of Si in that video, and some Fe. The only other thing I really picked up on was possibly a bit of Se (she kept calling the vegetables "beautiful" and "gorgeous"), but that was iffy and could just as well have been Si.

If I had to judge based on that video alone, I would say SEI. It's possible, though, that since she was cooking stuff, she happened to be using a lot of Si vocabulary, and is really some other type, so I would have to watch other videos to come to a more certain conclusion.

But I don't care enough to do that.

[Marie84]

I think she's an IEI

I checked out her website once and she seems to use a lot of Ni, such as focusing on her internal world. Uses a lot of Ni+Fe words like "essence" "inner aspect" "enlighten" etc

Any Si valuing may come from having it as a Role function, which is less about physical comfort and more about feeling a need to compensate for it, like eating a strict diet, partaking in strenuous exercise regimes and staying up to date with fashion.
Not to say SEI's can't do these things but I doubt they'd do something like limit their lifestyle to something like a macrobiotic diet, since it ignores a lot of Si pleasures

And, yah, being best friends with an SLE for so long says a lot for IEI

[Erk]

Role function is supposed to be something you do because you fell you must, but you would rather not. I might be more willing to assign that particular notion to Si agenda. The role function would be more inclined to cheat when it can because it wants to say FUCK YOU, pardon my French.

[Blaze]

I think she's an IEI

I checked out her website once and she seems to use a lot of Ni, such as focusing on her internal world. Uses a lot of Ni+Fe words like "essence" "inner aspect" "enlighten" etc

Any Si valuing may come from having it as a Role function, which is less about physical comfort and more about feeling a need to compensate for it, like eating a strict diet, partaking in strenuous exercise regimes and staying up to date with fashion.
Not to say SEI's can't do these things but I doubt they'd do something like limit their lifestyle to something like a macrobiotic diet, since it ignores a lot of Si pleasures

And, yah, being best friends with an SLE for so long says a lot for IEI

i agree with your train of thought.

i admire madonna because she so so works it. sometimes she throws off a lot of forcefulness, but i bet IRL she's classic SLE, pretty fun and safe to be around.

[Krig the Viking]

I think she's an IEI

I checked out her website once and she seems to use a lot of Ni, such as focusing on her internal world. Uses a lot of Ni+Fe words like "essence" "inner aspect" "enlighten" etc

Any Si valuing may come from having it as a Role function, which is less about physical comfort and more about feeling a need to compensate for it, like eating a strict diet, partaking in strenuous exercise regimes and staying up to date with fashion.
Not to say SEI's can't do these things but I doubt they'd do something like limit their lifestyle to something like a macrobiotic diet, since it ignores a lot of Si pleasures

And, yah, being best friends with an SLE for so long says a lot for IEI

Hmm, possible, I suppose. It would be rather like an LII giving a demonstration of politeness and etiquette and how to maintain good Fi relations with people.

On the other hand, SEI-SLE would be a Mirage relation, which tend to be some of the best inter-quadra relations.

Also, one needs to be careful with actors and actresses -- they use a lot of "actorspeak" when talking about acting, which tends to resemble NiFe. I find it's best to focus on the portions of the interviews in which they discuss their personal lives, rather than acting. Not saying this disproves NiFe, mind you, just that we need to be careful.

[Marie84]

Hmm, possible, I suppose. It would be rather like an LII giving a demonstration of politeness and etiquette and how to maintain good Fi relations with people.

Exactly.

The Socioscope definition of how IEI's use Si is exactly how I see Paltrow use it:

"The desire to appear elegant and stylish. Concern about his appearance. Following the societal norms in this respect. Weak sensitivity. Vague perception of the materiality of its own existence. Uncertainty in the fact that he can create comfort and cosiness. Following fashion, the search for refinement."

Which makes a lot of sense, since I find most IEI's tend to be far more elegant and poised than EII's

On the other hand, SEI-SLE would be a Mirage relation, which tend to be some of the best inter-quadra relations.

Also, one needs to be careful with actors and actresses -- they use a lot of "actorspeak" when talking about acting, which tends to resemble NiFe. I find it's best to focus on the portions of the interviews in which they discuss their personal lives, rather than acting. Not saying this disproves NiFe, mind you, just that we need to be careful.

Indeed, but her website is not about acting, it's a personal blog, so to speak

Role function is supposed to be something you do because you fell you must, but you would rather not. I might be more willing to assign that particular notion to Si agenda. The role function would be more inclined to cheat when it can because it wants to say FUCK YOU, pardon my French.

Krig's example of how a Ti dominant uses Fi is a good example of the use of the Role Function.
You compensate, for the lack of it, by doing what you think is expected of you, not by actually using in its valued way.
In a way, it's easier to use your Role Function more confidently than your HA because you don't value it, and thus don't care if you're not using it properly.

[Sol]

I think she's an IEI

She is. Maybe you'll find my list interesting.

[xkj220]

I also think she is IEI.

[Azure Flame]

bump

I've dated several girls who act like gwyneth on several occassions. I think they could be IEI 4, or even LSI. Anyone else have an opinion? They seem too mysterious and dramatic to be LIE, and too intense to be EIE. And her performance in the awful movie "great expectations" also suggests E4 to me.

Actually, when she moves it kinda reminds me of those dreams I have where I run as hard as I can but go nowhere. I wonder if that's what the descriptions mean when they say that IEI's physically "appear to have a lack of willpower." Her movements are slow and graceful but have absolutely no gusto to them.

[mu4]

EII

Delta not Beta

3 minutes on her Christmas shopping list or goop will convince you this individual is not in anyway interested in ..

[Azure Flame]

EII

Delta not Beta

3 minutes on her Christmas shopping list or goop will convince you this individual is not in anyway interested in ..

ok I'm checking out goop. lol.

I'm not seeing what you see. I see a health freak, which could suggest Si, but nothing about Fe or Fi.

I can still see Ti seeking from her website because she tries so hard to be her own culture. I suppose I can see an argument for Fi because she... tries too hard to stand out.

Using myself as a comparison, I'm already my own damn country. I am the star in all of my own music, psychology businesses, my book, my blog, etc. haha. And the fact that she listens to old 90's hip hop just kinda makes me nod my head in agreement at the style she's going for.

Of course everyone makes fun of her for trying to stand out. Some of the first articles I read were, "she needs to get her own personality" lol. That kinda says Fe to me, especially Fe Enneagram 4. Its like she's trying too hard to become significantly different from everyone else.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

I would say from watching her Jonathan Ross interview and others that she is more of an Ethical IP temperament than Ethical IJ. She seems to very much be reactive and adaptive to the interviewer, going along with what is being asked without any resistance and putting in subtle Fe (almost bashful) emotive feedback. With an Ethical IJ temperament, the person would be Fi lead, more self-consulting, taking the question, applying their values to it and then responding (or not) in a measured way. At the same time, she is a clear Delicate Mover (4D Ni/1D Se), so I would say IEI.

[Azure Flame]

I would say from watching her Jonathan Ross interview and others that she is more of an Ethical IP temperament than Ethical IJ. She seems to very much be reactive and adaptive to the interviewer, going along with what is being asked without any resistance and putting in subtle Fe (almost bashful) emotive feedback. With an Ethical IJ temperament, the person would be Fi lead, more self-consulting, taking the question, applying their values to it and then responding (or not) in a measured way. At the same time, she is a clear Delicate Mover (4D Ni/1D Se), so I would say IEI.

dude, explain that mumbo jumbo shit you just wrote. I need to learn the 3d 4d stuff, not sure where to start.

and yes, in my experience, IEI's seem to react to whatever I say. I'm always the one initiating, asking questions, and they respond. In a way they always seem to have the ball in their court when it comes to deciding how much of a connection should be established.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

dude, explain that mumbo jumbo shit you just wrote. I need to learn the 3d 4d stuff, not sure where to start.

and yes, in my experience, IEI's seem to react to whatever I say. I'm always the one initiating, asking questions, and they respond. In a way they always seem to have the ball in their court when it comes to deciding how much of a connection should be established.

Ah, well first I was referring to Temperament, so Introverted Irrational vs. Introverted Rational, where the person is definitely Ethical, so one would be Si or Ni lead with Fe creative or would be Fi lead. While Introverted Rational types lead with an Introverted Rational IM Element and judge all incoming information according to their personal values before acting, Introverted Irrational types lead with an Introverted Irrational IM Element and so take the incoming information and adjust themselves to it, hence why IEIs are often so cooperative and reactive in interviews and conversation.

Second, I was referring to Dimensionality of functions. Now, while I would hesitate to adopt the Bukalov view exactly as written here: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...Dimensionality I would say that there are 4 levels of strength or competence that a person can have in any IM element depending on what function it serves in that person's model. I would at least say that 1D is incompetence where the person is unable to perform except at the most rudimentary level with a severe drain of energy, 2D is wavering competence where the person can achieve a workability with practice, 3D is mastery where the person can quickly apply the IM Element with ease and 4D is fundamental where the IM Element has a strong and clear presence in how a person comes across to others (decides what their Communication and Movement Styles are).

Third, I was referring to Movement Style. This is my own creation in response to Gulenko's Communication style where he described how having 4D (leading or demonstrative) rational IM elements decides how one communicates with Te 4D being the Business Like Communicators, Fe being Passionate, Fi being Sincere and Ti being Cold Blooded. I did the same for the Irrational IM Elements, forming Movement Styles where people move and hold themselves differently depending on whether Se, Ne, Si or Ni is 4D... Se 4D being Tough, Si being Controlled, Ne being Clumsy and Ni being Delicate.

I hope that clears things up.

[Azure Flame]

Second, I was referring to Dimensionality of functions. Now, while I would hesitate to adopt the Bukalov view exactly as written here: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...Dimensionality I would say that there are 4 levels of strength or competence that a person can have in any IM element depending on what function it serves in that person's model. I would at least say that 1D is incompetence where the person is unable to perform except at the most rudimentary level with a severe drain of energy, 2D is wavering competence where the person can achieve a workability with practice, 3D is mastery where the person can quickly apply the IM Element with ease and 4D is fundamental where the IM Element has a strong and clear presence in how a person comes across to others (decides what their Communication and Movement Styles are).

Third, I was referring to Movement Style. This is my own creation in response to Gulenko's Communication style where he described how having 4D (leading or demonstrative) rational IM elements decides how one communicates with Te 4D being the Business Like Communicators, Fe being Passionate, Fi being Sincere and Ti being Cold Blooded. I did the same for the Irrational IM Elements, forming Movement Styles where people move and hold themselves differently depending on whether Se, Ne, Si or Ni is 4D... Se 4D being Tough, Si being Controlled, Ne being Clumsy and Ni being Delicate.

I hope that clears things up.

interesting. Although you really only need those 4 Ji functions. I wouldn't say i always come across as tough. I've been described as meek on several occassions. But i DEFINITELY come across as businesslike (4D Te). My interactions are stricly mission oriented, even when I date.

If I used those 4 identifiers, I can see gwyneth being sincere.

Suddenly I realized that doesn't fuckin get us anywhere lol. But I do think Ni doms tend to look really lazy and relaxed.

[mu4]

I would say from watching her Jonathan Ross interview and others that she is more of an Ethical IP temperament than Ethical IJ. She seems to very much be reactive and adaptive to the interviewer, going along with what is being asked without any resistance and putting in subtle Fe (almost bashful) emotive feedback. With an Ethical IJ temperament, the person would be Fi lead, more self-consulting, taking the question, applying their values to it and then responding (or not) in a measured way. At the same time, she is a clear Delicate Mover (4D Ni/1D Se), so I would say IEI.

Watching the video. She's pretty stiff.



Compare to someone like Marilyn Monroe


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zorxr3IaksM&noredirect=1

Audrey Hepburn



Anna Karina

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xaJ1cu5HtU&noredirect=1

Yuliya Snigir



Jennifer Hudson - Wanted a different sort of example

Now if you want to look at this video look at her Goop site, she does exactly what I've bolded.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/gwyn...potts-19040807

[Azure Flame]

She reminds me of 2 girls I've met in the past. I also suspect ESI is also a possibility. All I know is they were strong willed, took pain really well, never complained, acted ditsier than they actually were, always praised people despite themselves being in pain, and were super dramatic. They never initiated, always wanted me to chase after them. I'm pretty certain they were victim types.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

interesting. Although you really only need those 4 Ji functions. I wouldn't say i always come across as tough. I've been described as meek on several occassions. But i DEFINITELY come across as businesslike (4D Te). My interactions are stricly mission oriented, even when I date.

If I used those 4 identifiers, I can see gwyneth being sincere.

Suddenly I realized that doesn't fuckin get us anywhere lol. But I do think Ni doms tend to look really lazy and relaxed.

Tough movers have physical confidence in how they carry themselves. They usually have bigger, bolder gestures that indicate power and dominance of the surrounding area. You would certainly fit this in your vlogs.

Compare that to Gwyneth where her movements lack physical confidence, instead the limbs stay close to the body, protecting against a threatening environment. She moves delicately as the world could shatter her.

I would say Movement styles are just as important as Communication styles. After all, Communication can only narrow it down to 4 types but with Movement as well, it's down to 2 Quasi-Identicals.

But yes, if we're deciding between IEI and EII then Movement and Communication styles are useless. The key would be Temperament. One could try to use Quadras but that is difficult in most interviews unless the interviewee is asked the questions that call on them to express their values. However, temperament can be seen in any conversation.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

@hkkmr

I'm afraid your link isn't working. What do you mean by stiffness?
@DJ Arendee

If we're comparing faces, I would advise to look at the picture above the Beskova profile: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...NFp-by-Beskova

However, I'm not an advocate of this kind of Visual Identification, not until it has been explained with a good basis.

[mu4]

@hkkmr

I'm afraid your link isn't working. What do you mean by stiffness?

I think of Gwyenth as always pretty stiff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckYFXi4wexM&noredirect=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUicjQjiDJk

Pick your video, she's not very IEI imo. There's no sense of mystery or anything.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

I think of Gwyenth as always pretty stiff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckYFXi4wexM&noredirect=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUicjQjiDJk

Pick your video, she's not very IEI imo. There's no sense of mystery or anything.

I'm picking up Introversion in the first video (choosing to focus on the family and feeling she 'can't do it all'). I don't see what you mean by stiffness. Are you going into Pod'lair stiffness of wrists? According to them I'd be Rational or 'directive' which seems a bit silly.

She shares her feelings on things pretty readily if they're good for the discourse, that's an Fe trait. It's usually Fi leads who inadvertently create mystery by holding back personal feelings and opinions because people "don't need to know". Why do you think IEIs create a sense of mystery?

[Nevero]

she looks youthful and fragile, LII or EII?

[bolong]

I don't get what's scary about Madonna. Her music video "Music" was the first time I got aroused while watching TV.

And Gwyneth Paltrow is ESI. I always thought she was gamma, and goop made the ESI option very apparent.

[Azure Flame]

if they're ESI that messes with everything I used to think ESI stood for. lol.

[lemontrees]

Agree w/ not getting an Ni-Fe feeling from her at all.
She feels Ij to me.
I would believe ESI.

Edit: EII makes sense.

[mu4]

I'm picking up Introversion in the first video (choosing to focus on the family and feeling she 'can't do it all'). I don't see what you mean by stiffness. Are you going into Pod'lair stiffness of wrists? According to them I'd be Rational or 'directive' which seems a bit silly.

She shares her feelings on things pretty readily if they're good for the discourse, that's an Fe trait. It's usually Fi leads who inadvertently create mystery by holding back personal feelings and opinions because people "don't need to know". Why do you think IEIs create a sense of mystery?

Ok, IEI are pretty much the most mysterious and elusive type out there.

Remember IEI are a irrational type, an intuitive not an ethical type. Their ego ethical function is cautious.