Is this Duality?

[unefille]

Deleted for mistyping. Apologies.

[Slacker]

Your parents are ENFj/ISTp?

If you grew up with your dual, it seems like you'd attract them more easily. I think I read that in Rick's blog. Or maybe his old website? Hmmm I'll try to find where I read it.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

@unifille

I think it is ENFp-ISTp duality.

It actually describes very much the relation I have with my ENFp cousin. It was really good to hear it from what I entirely believe is hers, which is also yours ie ENFp side. And I think that's would be pretty much how she see's it. It's great, in 'it?!

Thank you for posting this.

[jessica129]

I've never felt that way around anyone. But who cares about "duality", obviously this relationship works.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I've never felt that way around anyone. But who cares about "duality", obviously this relationship works.

Your right. It's like what came first, the chicken or the egg?

It's not uncommon to try work out why something's good tho, I think.

So .. should we look for a relation that works, or should we look for duality. Often we find one that works before we know it is duality. And the ones that don't work, we realise afterwards a number of things, and then ... hindsight being a wonderful thing and that, as the saying goes.

With that in mind, as we don't know what came first, why not change it a little to say, who cares if the relation works, it is duality!

I think what I'm trying to say is, we don't know it's duality until we get to know them, but then if we can at least recognise those we don't get on with a little sooner..if we can at least have a little clue to be cautious, but still proceed, then funky.

Anyway, if you got this far, cheers lol

[meatburger]

Yep sounds very dual like to me! Congrats. I find ISTp's are more attracted to me when im happier too (pretty obvious i suppose).

I've never felt that way around anyone. But who cares about "duality", obviously this relationship works.

Duality is certianlly not the be all and end all, im finally starting to realise that. I just think im very reluctant to settle with just anyone. A perfect example (may) be unefille's parents relationship (assuming that is their types). They are making it work but to be honest their life long hapiness has been compromised to some degree. Its the possibilities i suppose. Im idealistic enough at the moment that i want to keep my options open by being alone, rather cling to someone else who im unsure about.

[xyz]

Just where the hell are you damn ENFps.

Oh yeah, I guess i'll just let em find me somehow?
Either way you guys sound like a blast.

Edit: I think every dual pair is a little different. Some seem to love to piss each other off in a playful way, and other duals seem so run of the mill to one another that they're easy to miss.

[Jarno]

perfect duality description. Especially enough emphasize on the characteristics of duality.

nothing to add.

[jewels]

Just where the hell are you damn ENFps.

Oh yeah, I guess i'll just let em find me somehow?
Either way you guys sound like a blast.

Edit: I think every dual pair is a little different. Some seem to love to piss each other off in a playful way, and other duals seem so run of the mill to one another that they're easy to miss.

I always wonder this about ISTPs. I really don't see any at all around, and I walk around the city a lot and see a LOT Of people, but almost never ISTPs. When I do see an ISTP, they tend to be an old man, or a toddler or something, LOL.

Can anyone please list some places ISTPs are sure to be found?

[meatburger]

I always wonder this about ISTPs. I really don't see any at all around, and I walk around the city a lot and see a LOT Of people, but almost never ISTPs. When I do see an ISTP, they tend to be an old man, or a toddler or something, LOL.

Can anyone please list some places ISTPs are sure to be found?

Garages, Seedy Strip Bars, Casinos, Bars, Their homes, The workplace, working for local councils, working at a skydiving center, lego exhibitions, behind the wheel of cars doing faster than the speed limit, the russian space station, at the garden shop, flying model airplanes, public toilets, engineering jobs, internet forums, the speedway, in showers, at the gym, in science labs, making origami animals, at the movies, at the bottolo, hiking, outside, at concerts, at hairdressers, in countries across the globe, hiking, restaraunts both fast food and formal, hardware stores, video game lan's.

[xyz]

I always wonder this about ISTPs. I really don't see any at all around, and I walk around the city a lot and see a LOT Of people, but almost never ISTPs. When I do see an ISTP, they tend to be an old man, or a toddler or something, LOL.

Can anyone please list some places ISTPs are sure to be found?

Well see, there's one problem.. I hate walking around in big cities. Way too noisy, way too crowded, and way too many distractions. I mean it's nice every once in awhile but for the most part, ehhh.

I really don't have any 'hangout' spots other than friends house parties. I'm honestly trying to think of places you might run into us but fuck, I'm a damn homebody sometimes heh.

Generally individual sports are good (not necesarrily the gym). Oh i know! Try parks. Parks, hiking trails, garages where you see a guy tuning up a car have a good chance of being SLI. Museums are a good bet too, especially if they're not just art museums (there's a old world train museum out here in Sacramento that rocks).

Not to play to stereotypes, but my dad (an ISTp, and a mechanic) and I love to go to Home Depot/Ace Hardware. Plenty of tool porn and nothing beats that plywood smell.

I can tell you good places to avoid too: Clubs (especially techno/rave type clubs..) tend not to be my thing, maybe the girls of the SLI club might disagree; massive cities; office parties; stuff like that.

If any other SLI's here feel differently please say so!
I think we have a tendency to fly under the radar a bit too much.

What about you, where do ENFp's usually swarm?

[meatburger]

What about you, where do ENFp's usually swarm?

We only exist in your wildest fantasies.

[xyz]

We only exist in your wildest fantasies.

Then back to my nap.

[meatburger]

Shit yeah LV is right. I would go to hardware stores. Grab the microphone and say "i need a man who knows how to use his tools" they will come running. Although my ISTj dad seems to like the hardware store so watch out. Or go to a garage store and be all Jessica Simpson like on the cars there.

Then back to my nap.

Ok i will tell the ENFp girls to put on their dream invasion suits. Nah man to be honest i dont really hang out anywhere on a regular basis except my home lol.

[xyz]

yeah I think that's our problem, we love our homes too damn much.


And yeah, ISTj's do go to hardware stores as well.

[meatburger]

yeah I think that's our problem, we love our homes too damn much.

For about the last 2 years now if you classified extraversion and introversion purely as going out or staying home i would be an introvert for sure. I really like it at home, watching movies, internet, msn, facebook, smsing, foruming, watching satellite tv, downloading stuff. I think its to do with . Enfp's are extraverted because we like to pull information from the outside world. The only problem is i can pull buckets and buckets of information just sitting in my computer chair (and i do).

I do really enjoy going out when it happens tho. Last time i went out (my thread about helping ISTp), i was an explosion of extraversion. I was chatting non stop with everyone.

[xyz]

Yeah, this meeting a dual thing is gonna be hard.

[meatburger]

Yeah, this meeting a dual thing is gonna be hard.

ENFp girls are very different to me though. I know quite a few and none of them are half as nerdy as i am. Since they dont get as much stimulation at home they tend to NEED to get out. Being bored at home and feeling that itch to get out can be bloody strong.

[jewels]

OMG Meatburger that descripton of places to find ISTPs was HILARious!

And LokiVanguard, that did give me some good ideas. I had considered hardware stores, but I will have to think of a good reason to be there...I can only copy so many keys. But parks...I like parks. I can do that.

As an ENFP, I often frequent these places:

clubs, bars, lounges
networking events
pickup soccer games
salsa dancing clubs
the gym
wandering streets
grocery shopping (I go a lot as I forget to make a list)
at a drug store, prob buying one roll of paper towels
shopping for shoes, clothes, CDs, etc
out at dinner
at some sort of random cultural event that some friend thought would be cool and forgot to tell me its in a foreign language
sitting in coffee shops (w/ friends or pretending to be busy)
iceskating
wandering around in a park, possibly lost
brunches, buffets, sushi,
classes of any sort (hip hop dancing, anything involving art/acting/fun stuff, boxing for girls)
art supply stores, craft stores
...If not that, I'm home on the internet (which is a lot of the time).

I tend to meet a lot of ENFP males at bars, lounges and clubs. So this seems to be an ENFP place.

[xyz]

OMG Meatburger that descripton of places to find ISTPs was HILARious!

And LokiVanguard, that did give me some good ideas. I had considered hardware stores, but I will have to think of a good reason to be there...I can only copy so many keys. But parks...I like parks. I can do that.

As an ENFP, I often frequent these places:

clubs, bars, lounges
networking events
pickup soccer games
salsa dancing clubs
the gym
wandering streets
grocery shopping (I go a lot as I forget to make a list)
at a drug store, prob buying one roll of paper towels
shopping for shoes, clothes, CDs, etc
out at dinner
at some sort of random cultural event that some friend thought would be cool and forgot to tell me its in a foreign language
sitting in coffee shops (w/ friends or pretending to be busy)
iceskating
wandering around in a park, possibly lost
brunches, buffets, sushi,
classes of any sort (hip hop dancing, anything involving art/acting/fun stuff, boxing for girls)
art supply stores, craft stores
...If not that, I'm home on the internet (which is a lot of the time).

I tend to meet a lot of ENFP males at bars, lounges and clubs. So this seems to be an ENFP place.

Boy you guys sure do eat a lot.

No wonder we have a hard time spotting each other. The gym, k. The park, k. Salsa dancing!? ugh, I was hoping to avoid that. Goddamnit.

[mikemex]

These days, I seem to be surrounded by ISTps. It's as though they've all come out of the woodwork. Maybe it's also because I know how to spot them, so I'll notice them and say hi and establish relations with them.

It happens to everybody who reaches a certain level of knowledge about socionics, I think. I also spot lots of SLIs every day, mostly because I used to have a vague understanding of people and now it is more precise. Before I thought "I've seen that before" and now I think "he's an ESE". Not that I want risking to obsess myself with labels, but socionics is well structured and prevents me from making unnecessary deviations from the proven observations/rules, which is the negative part of Ne+Fi.

Analyzing it throughly, what I'm really doing is forcing myself to value Ti. My normal Fi mode of understanding sometimes makes singularities where there are really generalities. Ti handles what is statistically significant while Fi handles what is outside the norm. Obviously, neither mode covers the 100% of the possibilities.

Even tough socionics would predict very few conflictor/super ego relationships, there are lots of them. And I believe it's because there is something truly appealing about the unexplored side of our own psyche.

[jewels]

Boy you guys sure do eat a lot.

No wonder we have a hard time spotting each other. The gym, k. The park, k. Salsa dancing!? ugh, I was hoping to avoid that. Goddamnit.

I might have been hungry when I wrote that...

And I think it's completely possible to avoid salsa dancing, though I'd bet ISTPs would be pretty good at it!

[meatburger]

I might have been hungry when I wrote that...

And I think it's completely possible to avoid salsa dancing, though I'd bet ISTPs would be pretty good at it!

LV you and i can have this type of salsa while they go dancing

[unefille]

OMG Meatburger that descripton of places to find ISTPs was HILARious!

And LokiVanguard, that did give me some good ideas. I had considered hardware stores, but I will have to think of a good reason to be there...I can only copy so many keys. But parks...I like parks. I can do that.

As an ENFP, I often frequent these places:

clubs, bars, lounges
networking events
pickup soccer games
salsa dancing clubs
the gym
wandering streets
grocery shopping (I go a lot as I forget to make a list)
at a drug store, prob buying one roll of paper towels
shopping for shoes, clothes, CDs, etc
out at dinner
at some sort of random cultural event that some friend thought would be cool and forgot to tell me its in a foreign language
sitting in coffee shops (w/ friends or pretending to be busy)
iceskating
wandering around in a park, possibly lost
brunches, buffets, sushi,
classes of any sort (hip hop dancing, anything involving art/acting/fun stuff, boxing for girls)
art supply stores, craft stores
...If not that, I'm home on the internet (which is a lot of the time).

I tend to meet a lot of ENFP males at bars, lounges and clubs. So this seems to be an ENFP place.

So, I highlighted quite a lot of this. I'm always doing the above. And yes, we seem to eat a lot, because I see eating as very much a SOCIAL activity. I prefer to eat with other people. Eating is sort of a non-event when I'm on my own - I don't really bother to eat anything nice or to think too much about it. If I'm on my own, I often will forget to eat, or just eat cereal.

I don't go to networking events so much, but I meet a lot of people through participation in university clubs, societies and organisations. When I'm really healthy, I like to be as involved in extracurricular activities as possible - because you get to combined being productive and helpful with meeting like-minded people who will become good friends! Perfect!

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Unefile, your like a carbon copy of the ENFp I know. I know I mentioned it before, but felt compelled to add that I really like reading your posts. It's all cool and such I hope such an observation does not apply pressure to you.

[idolatrie]

Unefile, your like a carbon copy of the ENFp I know. I know I mentioned it before, but felt compelled to add that I really like reading your posts. It's all cool and such I hope such an observation does not apply pressure to you.

haha, I have to butt in here and add that you definitely don't have to worry about that, she's always thrilled to find yet another ISTp who thinks she's made of awesome. ;P

[meatburger]

Yeah duality rocks. One of my ISTp friends is leaving for england this month. Gey. Hey Unefille good to see another ENFp here. Where in Australia are you from? Im from SA. How do you like law. I can imagine some parts of it would be tedius for a Ti polr?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

ISTp's can't get enough of Ne. It's what makes the world good for them.

Personally I think the ISTp has a lot of natural talent, practicality, strong reasoning powers, ability and such. I think a weakness in the ISTp is that they can let things pass them by, perhaps due to not being able to come up with ways to use their natural talents.

When they are receipt of Ne, it gives them the necessary idea(s), and channels into their psyche perfectly, and puts them into action. An ISTp who's galvanised into this action is a sight to behold

Perhaps the ISTp therefore has the means to productivity and efficiency, with the ENFp, and ENFp gets to see their active mind and thoughts and such become realities. Cool.

Good thread starter post unefile

[xyz]

ahh!

Nice posts you got there, une. Yeah, my best buddies tend to be people who can have wild out there ideas and the first thing i ask is "hrm i wonder if we can get our hands on that/ build it"

[meatburger]

I actually cant relate to having out there ideas or anything like that though. The way i see it is my Ne is an accepting function, where my Fi is a producting function. Perhaps i have misunderstood the concept?. Ive noticed my INFj friend actively creates Ne, FAR more than me. Hes always comming up with whacky ideas and so forth. For example in our sociology class hes always bringing up great points. I always find myself considering them for validity. On the other hand i can actively produce Fi very affectively. Handling relationships is easy peasy whereas he has problems at least in the short term. I think this partially is why your beneficiary and activity like you so much, because your creative function is often the one that emenates from you.

I like to think of my Ne as my function of reality. I seem to continunally be looking into ideas & beliefs to see how useful and grounded in reality they are. For example in psychology i threw out psychoanalysis in my mind before i was even taught about it. For example i saw a documentary the other day about kids addicted to porn. One of the kids went to a "renowned" psychologist who determined that the reason he looked at it was that he was harbouring anger. Even if this is true, i highly doubt its any more helpful than the placebo for actually correcting behavour. It was just a hollow Ne idea that didn't really fit into my big picture and it irked me so.

Another example would be an sms i got from my friend tonight. Hes convinced that people in Adelaide (my home town) are shit. Perhaps hes right to some degree that people here are different but hes missing the big picture. People are perhaps shit everywhere, or perhaps he is the problem, or perhaps most people are shit but some are ok, or maybe most people are fine. He really really needs an ENFp to correct some of his thought processes, slowly but surely. He is by no means a template of ISTp health though lol. I would like to also point out that my version reality is as warped as everybody elses, im just constantly trying to correct it.

Or maybe i just have weak Ne. Both my Parents have Ne polrs so perhaps i just dont have a bloody clue how to use it.

/END RANT

[meatburger]

Ooops i wrote my post before you posted yours. I enjoyed reading it a lot. I think i will read it again tomorrow mornin and i might comment. Im impressed that you're good at maths. I never tried that hard but im really only average at it. I dont really see any functions as higher order functions. I think i like to see them as equal.

Ive never seen ISTp's as incapable at doing much at all really. I hope it wasn't me saying it.

G'night

[jessica129]

Well see, there's one problem.. I hate walking around in big cities. Way too noisy, way too crowded, and way too many distractions. I mean it's nice every once in awhile but for the most part, ehhh.

I'm the same. I went to the city last night for a baseball game and while I had a good time, it's just exhausting. Everyone seems so relaxed in such environments but it's hard for me. Being in a stadium of 40,000 it's as if i can hear every single person, notice every single face staring at me, how loud the person is behind me, the constant tapping of someones foot, the harshness of the lights, etc. It's rough. Don't laugh at me. Maybe i'm just "special". For the longest time I wanted to live there but it seems so impersonal and rushed and choatic and superficial. I really love visiting every other week but more than that and I can't handle it. I get migranes and all sorts of other stress related illnesses. I really only love going to the city to see the architecture and all the different kinds of people and the different sights and sounds and tastes the city offers. I could people watch for hours.

I can't say I enjoy Home Depots or fixing my car or even participating in sports...but I'm female and not a lesbian.

I frequent: My bed, my job, restaurants, hotels, casinos, very rarely I enjoy a club or two, many concerts, sporting events (i really do enjoy them when i focus just on the game, heh), museums (probobly my favorite), movie theaters!, subway, random roads in towns i've never been to, and um...wherever else i feel like being.

And oh, I absolutely loved going on walks with my dog for hours in the parks and forests and what not. I found it to be one of the most relaxing things in the world. Loved watching her play in the water for hours on end. I miss her.

[idolatrie]

I think this partially is why your beneficiary and activity like you so much, because your creative function is often the one that emenates from you.

From an activity partner's perspective, I'm often in awe of the ENFp's ability to 'manipulate' Fi (and I mean manipulate in a good way there). It is something that I feel helpless/clueless about sometimes, and it is so fantastic to have someone who can identify and explain its functioning so clearly to me. I can adopt that as a way of accessing Fi, and use it as a kind of barometer for my own analysis of the situation/relationship. We tend to joke that I'm 'emotionally retarded', but you know, there's totally a reason for why we say that - I seem to vacillate between oblivious and aware but helpless. So to make up for that, I lean on the ENFp's Fi to help me deal with something I am concerned with, but fear I end up all entangled in.

Ne, to me, manifests itself in the ENFp in different ways depending on the context. When we're doing group work, I see it as coming up with ideas and possibilities, which I then feel the need to comb through and stick into a structure, grouping the compatible ones and chucking the incommensurable ones - or working out some way to reconcile them. (Huh, question I just thought of - does my obsessive need to put things into a structure annoy ENFps?) I rarely feel that these ideas are so bizarre and left field that I struggle to understand them. Like, my response is usually 'hmm, ok, where does that fit in to our idea/purpose?' rather than 'omg wtf you're trying to break my brain!' I appreciate that mental flexibility, because I'm all about wanting to find the most practical solution, rather than just following preset rules.

On the other hand, when we're just hanging out, I find the manifestation of Ne to be far more random. Like, I was walking down a street with an ENFp (who doesn't have perfect vision when she's forgotten to wear her contacts) and there was a tree festooned with green lights. She was all 'omg that's a green alien monster that is going to eat me!' (it was hilarious at the time, I'm losing a lot of its amusement factor in the retelling) which I found a combination of adorable and bemusing, and was somewhat flummoxed as to how she came to that conclusion. It mostly makes me giggle. And brings light and joy into my life! Haha

[meatburger]

Being in a stadium of 40,000 it's as if i can hear every single person, notice every single face staring at me, how loud the person is behind me, the constant tapping of someones foot, the harshness of the lights, etc.

I actually do think this is something your brain can train learn to some extent. I used to live high up in the hills in a quiet natural area and now im living in the middle of a tourist zone. Like right outside my house busses of people get off daily. Originally i found it a bit too much but ive trained myself to filter people out. I just ignore people now. Sometimes i agree though i get a bit of information overload from people but normally in a big crowd i enjoy it. I think i will always be a city person, i find country too booring.

From an activity partner's perspective, I'm often in awe of the ENFp's ability to 'manipulate' Fi (and I mean manipulate in a good way there).

Aww your an ESTj? You would be one of the only ones who talk here! Thats true, i suppose i do say quirkly little things occasionally, normally when i want to appear cute

@unefille = Hey can i ask you some questions? (question 1)
Firstly, how did you come upon this place? Were you studying personality types and it led you here?
You seem to have a good understanding of some of the concepts in socionics. Have you learnt from somewhere else or have you lurked here a while?

[meatburger]

I flocked to economics, to philosophy, to critiques of logic and structure. Sometimes I think the descriptions of PoLR overstate how much it limits you - it took me a long time to understand my own PoLR as I experience it.

Its possible that you are just quite an intelligent version of you're type.

I don't mind the questions at all!

I was curious as theres quite a few Aussies here now. I also thought it might be a bit of a get to know you thing

[Christy B]

From an activity partner's perspective, I'm often in awe of the ENFp's ability to 'manipulate' Fi (and I mean manipulate in a good way there). It is something that I feel helpless/clueless about sometimes, and it is so fantastic to have someone who can identify and explain its functioning so clearly to me. I can adopt that as a way of accessing Fi, and use it as a kind of barometer for my own analysis of the situation/relationship. We tend to joke that I'm 'emotionally retarded', but you know, there's totally a reason for why we say that - I seem to vacillate between oblivious and aware but helpless. So to make up for that, I lean on the ENFp's Fi to help me deal with something I am concerned with, but fear I end up all entangled in.

Ne, to me, manifests itself in the ENFp in different ways depending on the context. When we're doing group work, I see it as coming up with ideas and possibilities, which I then feel the need to comb through and stick into a structure, grouping the compatible ones and chucking the incommensurable ones - or working out some way to reconcile them. (Huh, question I just thought of - does my obsessive need to put things into a structure annoy ENFps?) I rarely feel that these ideas are so bizarre and left field that I struggle to understand them. Like, my response is usually 'hmm, ok, where does that fit in to our idea/purpose?' rather than 'omg wtf you're trying to break my brain!' I appreciate that mental flexibility, because I'm all about wanting to find the most practical solution, rather than just following preset rules.

On the other hand, when we're just hanging out, I find the manifestation of Ne to be far more random. Like, I was walking down a street with an ENFp (who doesn't have perfect vision when she's forgotten to wear her contacts) and there was a tree festooned with green lights. She was all 'omg that's a green alien monster that is going to eat me!' (it was hilarious at the time, I'm losing a lot of its amusement factor in the retelling) which I found a combination of adorable and bemusing, and was somewhat flummoxed as to how she came to that conclusion. It mostly makes me giggle. And brings light and joy into my life! Haha

You guys are so cute! How lucky to have such a good friend!

[ScarlettLux]

You know what's just freaking weird ? Your description of IEE-SLI duality is similar to how I would describe EIE-LSI duality.

Perhaps the experience of duality is quite the same for all dual-couples? That would go against the grain of what is commonly believed though (that duality for all the pairs feels different, manifests differently)

This whole thing about being comfortable with them, laughing, joking, yep, it's all there for me with LSIs. I just find it amazing that functional differences can cause so much strife between SLIs and I. I've only ever known one SLI girl and she forever dislikes me because of a solitary incident which I believed to be a joke. Eh.