A great sign that your dating a douchy IEI is if you go by the pseudonym Starfall on a shitty internet forum involving Russian mindcontrol techniques that were created in order to win the cold war.Originally Posted by Starfall
A great sign that your dating a douchy IEI is if you go by the pseudonym Starfall on a shitty internet forum involving Russian mindcontrol techniques that were created in order to win the cold war.
Model X Will Save Us!
*randomwarelinkremoved
Isnt the inherent defining quality of the douche that you know it when you see it?
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
I don't even think that being a douchlord or a bitchqueen is that type related.
Hi, Starfall.
I've known every one of these people.
Your descriptions are not very complimentary, but I will say that your observations are quite perceptive.
The IEI's are the ones I'm attracted to the most. The others I've learned to stay away from, but I keep coming back to the IEI's. It is the attraction of an 8 for a 4, I guess, and makes me think that on some level, I must be insane. Either that, or they provide something that I can't get anywhere else. Maybe it's the fact that they don't break when you play with them. The hot and crazy sexuality, the intelligence, the warmth, the understanding, the drama, the defiance and submission, the "Chase me!" followed by cancelled dates followed by signs that they are missing me and are miserable, all of which are designed to evoke a strong emotional response from their partners, makes me want to **** *** **** *** ** ****. My God, my god, why do I like IEIs? What have I done to deserve this?
If I end up having any sort of bad feelings towards someone an IEI knows closely without knowing who they are, what they look like or anything else for that matter I'm out.
EDIT: This is of course what I'd consider douchy IEIs, not the nice ones.
Last edited by Oaky; 07-09-2015 at 05:27 AM.
Are you sure you are LIE?
It is not normal for a Supervisor to feel about their Supervisee like that... o.O
Is there never any frustration over some "petty behaviour" of theirs?
... What if you are SLE after all?
I am definitely LIE. I am definitely not SLE, because I can actually plan things more than 30 seconds into the future. What I have with IEI's is the attraction between an 8 and a 4. A lot of SLE's are also 8's.
Why do I like IEI's? As I've said before, my mother did not love me (or my sisters), but my IEI aunt did. So, the emotional part of my brain locked onto her type. I am a wolf raised by skylarks. Most wolves think skylarks make good snacks, and that's their best use, but I think otherwise.
That doesn't mean that I always get along well with IEI's, or they with me. There are some rough spots. Yes, there is some frustration over some "petty behavior" of theirs sometimes. For example, the one I've been seeing told me to take a hike today, because I am "just like the ISFj" who just quit her employ for a better job. According to the IEI, the ISFj and I are just alike. And because IEI's do not like to be the ones who are left in a relationship, they want to be the ones doing the leaving, she is probably doing a preemptive strike. Or testing me, I don't know. She's obviously upset (the ISFj was her best employee) and is running scared on Fe, not Te. Their brains are Ni possibility generators (including catastrophes) and their ability to see the real world (Se) to do fact checking on these possibilities is not spectacular. They can be so sensitive to being called on their whimsey and illogic, and it is hard for me to suppress my Te and Fi and walk her through a rational argument that says, "Just because your best employee quit does not mean that everyone is leaving you."
So, yes, there are some problems. But overall, my emotional brain thinks they are a save haven. My rational brain keeps saying that we are not a long-term comfortable match, but emotions usually rule, you know.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-09-2015 at 06:34 PM.
Aha, and I know a real SLE with exact same etype and stacking thinking he is LIE. Stuff happens.
Little known fact about supervision relations is that they are attractive both ways.
As for flakiness in dating FDG wrote about the same thing. He's another LIE who used to date IEIs.
Where's the source for that? Almost any Socionics site I've read mentioned Supervision to be "repulsive".
These are the newer developments in theory. Most socionics sources go over the older classical stuff from the 80s, which has been found to have some lapses that have been further improved upon over the past 10 years or so. Supervision relations oscillate: they are attractive both ways, and repulsive both ways; and it's not really accurate to say that it's only repulsive and that Adam, as an LIE, couldn't possible be interested in IEIs and therefore must be SLE.
Even by experience I wouldn't say supervision can only be repulsive for the "supervisor", as I often take note of and seek out ESEs - and they slip away from me :'(
Ah, good to see someone noting the same. I am experiencing this with an LIE at the moment. For a while it is going pretty well, and then suddenly I feel sort of disappointed and repulsed, so I draw back again.
I also believe that Supervision is *not* the worst relation as many (probably old) sources claim.
I love my ESE sister as much as you could possibly love another human being and spiritually she is like an angel to me. I am not repulsed by her but I am sure when she was younger and I was taking care of her she was angry at me and blamed me for everything after taking her away from her bf and moving her a 1000 miles away. That was like the worst time between us but we got through it. My biggest problem is that I tend to talk down to her and possibly treat her like a child, I hate doing it. It is almost my default way with her whenever we are working on something together. I just assumed it was because of a bigger age difference with her than my EII sister. Even something simple like cleaning the house I will be on her and telling her what and how to do things. It is the opposite with the EII we try not to step on each other's toes as much. :/ I am better at just letting her be herself now and biting my tongue.
Basic relationship elements:
- Egotistic orientations = hetroverted
- Social rhythms = arrhythmic
- Spiritual vibes = repulsive
- Social rankings = asymmetrical
Brief summary
- It can feel like the supervisor takes on a 'baby-sitters role' towards the supervisee.
- It can get neurotic for the supervisee who drew 'the short end of the stick' in getting their 'little brother' social position.
- It can get confusing for the supervisor in their 'big brother' social position when the supervisee doesn't respond well to their dominant attitudes.
From my interactions with AS I say LIE suits him better than SLE. I can understand what he sees in his IEIs and he is right it probably would not be good for the long term unless there was more chemistry and love and less socionics involved.
I am not sure how they are defining the term spiritual vibes as repulsive. That is kind of strange. What if the person is like your soulmate or something... Also the term definitive in the link hit my polr, I think. I am never going to get to a point where I believe that socionics trumps my free will and ability to discern for myself. There is nothing definitive in how I feel about a "type". I have to know the individual's personality and character not their type or quadra. That stuff may or may not align with theory. I don't have enough proof of intertype irl to decide really. I only know two ESE, that I am sure of, irl. One is my angel sister and the other was a shady drug house owner who I really liked but I had to keep an eye on her or she would steal my stuff.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I was quite surprised to find out how low Supervision was listed on the relationship scale. I was married for many years to my Supervisor, and she was and is wonderful. If she hadn't moved out, I'd still be married to her. She is a terrific human being, and it is going to be very, very hard to find someone whom I get along with better. I think I will be able to do that, but it will take some doing.
I should add that she didn't supervise me when things were going well, which was most of the time. But I think my resistance to her way of doing things eventually wore her down. Oh, well.
If you are LIE and she is IEI, you are actually supposed to be supervising her...
i have a Beta NF friend a bit younger than i am (types herself ENFJ/INFJ in MBTI) who in the past has attracted several abusers and shitty guys (including a stalker, a molester, and a few narcissists). she's early-20s young, very pretty, delicate-looking, and "helpless" seeming so i think bad characters get attracted, thinking they can easily possess, control and abuse her. she's very good, whether deliberately or not, at hooking guys in the way Starfall mentioned, so she's also attracted a lot of younger guys (not necessarily abusive) who thought they had a chance (most didn't), and easily became obsessed. when they found out that she wasn't going to reciprocate their feelings, many of these guys' behavior got really ugly, i.e. they pretty much hate her now and write her off as "crazy". in many cases, she regrets losing their friendships, and it hurts her to know what they think about her now. i don't think her behavior was malicious at all, but i think she may be starting to realize that trying to be "only friends" with guys she knows are crazy for her is a bad idea.
i've had a few guys be obsessed with me before too, in the past, but luckily they weren't abusive types. at the time, i didn't think i was leading them on, but they thought they had a chance, apparently. i know it's hard for me to outright do something i know is going to hurt another's feelings; i think IEIs (especially women) generally try to be nice and friendly with everyone. so this combination of IEIs being alluring and mysterious, while also trying to maintain platonic relationships with someone who is attracted can be kind of dangerous. i know in those previous cases i genuinely appreciated those guys' friendships, but it just ruins things when one has unrequited feelings for the other
My ex-wife was my superviser, an SLI. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
So, I kind of have some idea about what an IEI experiences around me, and yes, I know there is mutual attraction. Her Ni is better than mine, and my Se is better than hers, so we admire each other. The problem occurs because she might wish for more Te, but absolutely is not able to put my suggestions into practice. This is a source of great frustration for her, and I have dealt with it by never offering her unsolicited advice, and even refrained from offering advice when she asked. The correct reply is, "I have total faith that you will be able to solve this on your own." If she persists, the correct response is, "Well, I ran into that problem in the past, and this is what I did, but you will probably be able to come up with a better solution." But that is no way to live a life, long term.
Huh? You mean being considerate of your partner's beliefs and feelings, being aware that she is different, and allowing her some freedom in learning to do things on her own while still being able to consider your advice (with the choice to dismiss if it isn't useful for her)? I dunno maybe your advice is golden and it is upsetting when someone cannot follow it so you withhold.
I thought that was just part of being mature in a relationship and learning that your way is not always the right way for others. Offering advice is often appreciated if you tailor it to the person asking when approaching the issues and not push it on them. Seems to get easier the more you invest emotionally and care about the relationship. At least for me.
I don't see you doing anything really wrong here. You could possibly lead with, "Well, I ran into that problem in the past, and this is what I did, but you will probably be able to come up with a better solution." then follow with, "I have total faith that you will be able to solve this on your own [though]." instead of being stubborn and refusing to give advice until begged to.Do you have trouble accepting her as she is and this is too hard for you to do this on an ongoing basis? All relationships will have some kind of issues, even duals. I have had a terrible relationship with a dual. We were so immature.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I think you misunderstood me...or quoted the wrong sentence
Made my day
IEI-Ni, DCNH-H, 4w5-9w1-5w4, sx/sp, Aquarius sun, Leo rising
...
"From their lives, and not least from their greatest fault--their inability to communicate--we may understand one of the greatest errors of our civilization, that is, the superstitious belief in verbal statements, the boundless overestimation of instruction by means of words and methods."--C.G. Jung on the introverted irrational types
Sounds like he's a good looking guy.
I think that my LSI brother in law is pretty great at taking care of the kids and being a financial provider.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ive found many people attracted to their supervisors, supervisees and conflictors.
Conflictors at first exude similar qualities as your dual, and it takes time for comfort to set in, and that's when the torrent of conflicting wavelengths starts kicking.
Supervisors are attractive if youre looking for someone to call you out on your bullshit, which a lot of people are. I had a super strange acquaintanceship with my friends girlfriend, as I usually get rid of my filter to allow for a bubble that says, I'm not interested and allows for the boyfriend to constantly look like a nicer guy than they are, by contrast. But she was my supervisee and she was wacked in the head, so being abrasive gave her googly eyes, and fostered hate in me, furthering the cycle.
In essence, all the type interactions can be attractive, depending on your preference in relationships & the ideas instilled in you through your parents relationships growing up.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Thats just any douchy person really
Main sign you're dating a douchy IEI:
- You're dating Me
IEI-Ni, DCNH-H, 4w5-9w1-5w4, sx/sp, Aquarius sun, Leo rising
...
"From their lives, and not least from their greatest fault--their inability to communicate--we may understand one of the greatest errors of our civilization, that is, the superstitious belief in verbal statements, the boundless overestimation of instruction by means of words and methods."--C.G. Jung on the introverted irrational types
This particular LIE is not turned off by IEI "head in the clouds" demeanor. Actually, I'm attracted to the IEI's Ni and appreciate their Fe. I find that IEI's have a great imagination and are extraordinarily friendly and accepting. I realize mine is an abnormal reaction to IEI's, compared to most LIE's I have talked to, and I attribute it to growing up with a favorite cousin who was IEI. She was the only female of my age who was constantly around, and despite our differences, I kind of bonded to her. Just goes to show what early exposure can do. (Hence busing
On the other hand, I do know a lot of IEI's in real life, and I've only wanted to have sex with one who was sx/so. As for the rest, I find that they are best appreciated from a purely intellectual and platonic standpoint. They are usually very smart and they make great friends.
lmao
i still can't figure out what this is, but love that it sounds unbearably obscene
Men can be unfathomably stupid.i've had a few guys be obsessed with me before too, in the past, but luckily they weren't abusive types. at the time, i didn't think i was leading them on, but they thought they had a chance, apparently. i know it's hard for me to outright do something i know is going to hurt another's feelings; i think IEIs (especially women) generally try to be nice and friendly with everyone. so this combination of IEIs being alluring and mysterious, while also trying to maintain platonic relationships with someone who is attracted can be kind of dangerous. i know in those previous cases i genuinely appreciated those guys' friendships, but it just ruins things when one has unrequited feelings for the other
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