I dont get it...

[Nevar]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here.
I made this account mainly to ask certain questions as I don't usually participate in forums but.. psychology seem to have changed my rules this time.

I have first to acknowledge that i find socionics to be much better at describing the human psyche than say MBTI if abit incomplete and sometimes buzzling.
I am not a scientist I only want to learn what I can use still, that which I can use I need to fully understand inside out.

I am fairly certain that I am an IEI but I find the absoluteness of being useless and submissive hard to swallow. In fact the words submissive vicitm and being dominated sends fire in my head and I am pretty good at figuring out when that happen, in which case if i cant avoid it reduce the interaction with said "dominators" to a supeficial level. I hate that word.
I also think my brother is an SLE. in the past when we were talking i could see how we can work seamlessly together but, boy is he annoying and selfish. I had to be a bit more conservative. i suspect this to not be a particular SLE thing as he doesn't talk to other family members as well, unless necessary.

I am egyptian male 32 if that would be of any help.

so the question is how being IEI fit with such thinking?

I saw so many EIIs who think they are IEI and I can tell the difference. I think. I don't see myself as one of them.

most of the system make sense to me but i would like to tighten the bolts on understanding so i can confidently use it a bit more... well confidently.

and sorry for the long post.
Cheers.

[PrettySavage]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here.
I made this account mainly to ask certain questions as I don't usually participate in forums but.. psychology seem to have changed my rules this time.

I have first to acknowledge that i find socionics to be much better at describing the human psyche than say MBTI if abit incomplete and sometimes buzzling.
I am not a scientist I only want to learn what I can use still, that which I can use I need to fully understand inside out.

I am fairly certain that I am an IEI but I find the absoluteness of being useless and submissive hard to swallow. In fact the words submissive vicitm and being dominated sends fire in my head and I am pretty good at figuring out when that happen, in which case if i cant avoid it reduce the interaction with said "dominators" to a supeficial level. I hate that word.
I also think my brother is an SLE. in the past when we were talking i could see how we can work seamlessly together but, boy is he annoying and selfish. I had to be a bit more conservative. i suspect this to not be a particular SLE thing as he doesn't talk to other family members as well, unless necessary.

I am egyptian male 32 if that would be of any help.

so the question is how being IEI fit with such thinking?

I saw so many EIIs who think they are IEI and I can tell the difference. I think. I don't see myself as one of them.

most of the system make sense to me but i would like to tighten the bolts on understanding so i can confidently use it a bit more... well confidently.

and sorry for the long post.
Cheers.

What do you mean by "useless" and "submissive"? Certainly, there's no IEI profile of the type that describes them as good for nothing quite the contrary, their many talents are exemplified in all of them.

I assume the submissive bit that bothered you was the description of IEI's Romance Style? Well, it's highly debatable whether this part of the theory fits reality enough for it to be used for typing. I say use it as a side dish, don't put too much weight into it. I for once don't really fit any of the Romance Styles as they are described now.

IEIs are quite powerful and influential creatures, but they prefer covert positioning. They are not pushovers by definition, though they usually do have a gentler nature.

Are you using the profiles to type yourself and others or functional analysis? That might help, profiles vary a lot depending on who's the author.

All in all I think the real issue is that you see "submissive" as an insult, so you want to distance yourself from it. But it's just an adjective, nothing more.

[Nevar]

I speak of duality with SLE and how it works.

I use the functions first profile second.

Not about being an insult. It is but, I get more angry when someone try to control me.

And I am not fishing for complements. I am past this stage now. Just if the thought crossed anybody's mind.

[PrettySavage]

I speak of duality with SLE and how it works.

I use the functions first profile second.

Not about being an insult. It is but, I get more angry when someone try to control me.

And I am not fishing for complements. I am past this stage now. Just if the thought crossed anybody's mind.

You are approaching this the wrong way: if are really IEI you will never feel like a SLE is controlling you, neither will they even want to in the first place. They lead you, not dominate. And you will want and enjoy it, it'll feel natural. Just like SLE don't feel controlled by IEI when it's their time to "instruct" them.

If you feel controlled then either that's exactly what's going and therefore not part of the SLE/IEI dynamic, or the type of guidance feels that way because it's a conflicting type.

I never implied you were fishing for compliments, neither would I give them to someone I never met before. I was merely speaking about my experiences with male IEIs in real life because two of my best friends happen to be that. They are pliant yes, at least with me, but I've never seen them sound or look resentful or uncomfortable with that. It's just how they are.

[Spermatozoa]

I use the functions first profile second.

Then your understanding of Socionics already exceeds that of half this forum.

Not about being an insult. It is but, I get more angry when someone try to control me.

Yeah man, you don't want some amazon-like chick with anger management issues. SLE is a very male type, and it does not mix well with periods. Your dual is a roaming animal which needs to be tamed and forced into sexual submission.

And I am not fishing for complements. I am past this stage now. Just if the thought crossed anybody's mind.

This isn't a hippy commune. Respect is earned, not given.

[lavos]

OP do you know about enneagram, cause you sound like you have an 8 fix.

[Spermatozoa]

OP do you know about enneagram, cause you sound like you have an 8 fix.

"Getting angry when someone tries to control me"

That sounds normal.

The question is: what does he fear not having control over?

[Nevar]

Thank you all very much for the replys.

About compliments, it was just a precautionary statement not related to what was said at all. I used to do when I had less confidence.

I know conflictors very well, my dad. He can't even try to control me because we just can't understand eachother in the slightest. I mean socionics helped me there but still..
I just don't like it when he gives me directions/ criticism in an angry tone of what should have been done after the act.

Angry amazon chicks I automatically ramp up my emotional resposnse based on what I am receiving, but I don't want anyone to be submissive to me. Maybe just want people to be grateful when I help, but that is normal I think. I haven't met a female SLE though of any subtype so I can't say how it will be like.

I heard of enneagram, couldn't take it very seriously because it felt very pliable, not as categorical as I would like (2D Ti perhaps), hippy vibe didn't help too.
I might have to do some reading, especially about the "fix"

What I fear losing control of?
My life, event and choices. My own physical bubble's orderness. my free time. Being labelled as easy target. I also fear conflict but I force my self there if it has to be done.

[Nevar]

If you feel controlled then either that's exactly what's going and therefore not part of the SLE/IEI dynamic, or the type of guidance feels that way because it's a conflicting type.

Bingo

[PrettySavage]

@Nevar

If you think Enneagram is pliable and not categorical than you have a lot of reading to do indeed. In any case, you're either a gut core or a cp6, given you focus on control/freedom. Your Enneagram type(s) won't change with age or any other change, it is as fixed as your Sociotype.

[Nevar]

@Nevar

If you think Enneagram is pliable and not categorical than you have a lot of reading to do indeed. In any case, you're either a gut core or a cp6, given you focus on control/freedom. Your Enneagram type(s) won't change with age or any other change, it is as fixed as your Sociotype.

Will do

[Rebelondeck]

Information processing styles cannot be related to characteristics such as submissiveness, which is more of a learned behaviour. I'm sure that any type who has been supressed, uneducated and told they're chattel from birth will likely be submissive unless they become psychotic due to the abuse. Socionics describes how people tend handle the same information differently under the exact same set of circumstances; the problem with any theory is that circumstances are usually as varied as DNA. I use Socionics to help understand how people might have gotten to where they are given their background and experiences in order to predict where they're generally headed and whether or not they might fit into a specific environment. It'll never be an exact science even though processing structures can most likely be well defined......
a.k.a. I/O

[Nevar]

Information processing styles cannot be related to characteristics such as submissiveness, which is more of a learned behaviour. I'm sure that any type who has been supressed, uneducated and told they're chattel from birth will likely be submissive unless they become psychotic due to the abuse. Socionics describes how people tend handle the same information differently under the exact same set of circumstances; the problem with any theory is that circumstances are usually as varied as DNA. I use Socionics to help understand how people might have gotten to where they are given their background and experiences in order to predict where they're generally headed and whether or not they might fit into a specific environment. It'll never be an exact science even though processing structures can most likely be well defined......
a.k.a. I/O

I am on the look out for the engine works with psychology not the road conditions. The principle that cause these changes in the various conditions, a predictive model that is flexible and fairly accurate not necessarily exhaustively accurate.


As for enneagram I am definitely a five. Four wing is there but the six is almost absent. Instincts sp sx, or may be sx so not sure.

So now I am at my best heading for the eight style behavior. Make sense.


The question I have now is the enneagram in any way affecting compatability like subtypes? I ll also try to integrate it with what I know about socionics and brain structure.

[Sol]

the best is to gather opinions about your type. if it's not IEI, then there will be lesser problems with accepting of the type's descriptions

[Nevar]

the best is to gather opinions about your type. if it's not IEI, then there will be lesser problems with accepting of the type's descriptions

I am always open to new ideas but, they remain just that. Ideas. They join the horde in my mind and do not change my conclusion unless they fit the information structure I made for the topic better than the idea it replaces. For subjects I have long interest in, this is very difficult indeed.

So in short, telling something is x or y because it is so is as good as not telling me anything at all. It is just the way I work.

[Sol]

I am always open to new ideas but, they remain just that. Ideas.

Versions of the type from other people are interesting, as it's not rare when you may doubt in own opinion about someone's type. Doubting in own type also happens, even after years by those who knew the typology good. Then those opinion are the 1st to think about, as they are better than random.
As you find descriptions of the type you think as yours as significanly wrong in something, - you have basis for doubts and to check what other people think about your type. It's not hard to give typing info. In case the type is other indeed then you'll easier understand the typology with the correct one.
You may have close type, like SEI, EIE, ILI or very different.

[Nevar]

It is not that simple. I know my type both by functions and intertype relationships, as well as comparing myself to other people. The type here is an image with so many intricate and intertwining details that all connect to make the structure which is the type I best fit. It takes a much more serious conflict to consider a change, however if I do it will have to be a complete remake of typology understanding in my mind. To me, It is very unlikely that I got that wrong so long as types remain 16 and not more. If it sound abit arrogant or stubborn I am really sorry for that but I couldn't phrase it any better.

[Tallmo]

The question I have now is the enneagram in any way affecting compatability like subtypes?

Yes, I think it does. In my opinion there are three pillars. They are socionics-type, subtype and Enneagram. Together they form the real compatibility between people.

[Nevar]

Yes, I think it does. In my opinion there are three pillars. They are socionics-type, subtype and Enneagram. Together they form the real compatibility between people.

Or it could be (given the confusing nature of the subtype systems) that both subtypes and enneagram attempt describe the same part of the psyche.

Side note, I strongly encourage you all to give that book a look "neuroscience of personality" by Dr. Dario Nardi.
It will mostly add to the confusion but it gives a very different look to the system.
I believe if we could reconcile the biological and the social percieve systems we can have a complete predictive model.

[Tallmo]

Or it could be (given the confusing nature of the subtype systems) that both subtypes and enneagram attempt describe the same part of the psyche.

They are different, but there can be correlations. I use DCNH and it is very clear. It is easy to play with variables and let type/subtype/enneagram change in different ways and see the difference in compatibility.

[Sol]

I know my type both by functions and intertype relationships, as well as comparing myself to other people.

It's common when the opinion is kept for years. And then some people changed own opinions, anyway. Some of those people like Lytov and Popov even studed others or made researches in the typology for several years. There is a chance, you should take into account. The more issues you see with getting descriptions of own type, the more possibility for the mistake.

[Nevar]

It's common when the opinion is kept for years. And then some people changed own opinions, anyway. Some of those people like Lytov and Popov even studed others or made researches in the typology for several years. There is a chance, you should take into account. The more issues you see with getting descriptions of own type, the more possibility for the mistake.

Exactly, there was just one issue and it wasn't about the description of the type (which is relative in words choice to the author anyway) it was about adynamic that doesn't translate. I think it is easy to be lured by duality as you study socionics and try to especially understand it.
But still, the only type of direct feedback to my questions was likes and guessing. There is certainly alot of informative answers so it let this roll. But it would be a bit easier for other IEIs to answer with their experience. Not an easy thing it seems.

[Stellafera]

But it would be a bit easier for other IEIs to answer with their experience. Not an easy thing it seems.

Heya, IEI here who also got really turned off by the "IEIs are helpless waifs who live in the magical world of ideas and can't pay bills" stereotype. Makes IEIs sound immature, like they're a princess waiting for their knight to rescue them. In reality I take plenty of leadership roles because I know I have the forward vision and the ability to delegate.

However, my leadership abilities do improve with a Se-type around. At times I have difficulty getting my feet off the ground. Like, I know what I want to accomplish, but it can be mentally taxing to work out how. Plan this, plan that, try to fit it all together... SLEs forge their own "how". They easily make moves, using creative Ti in a flow state to fit the situation together in their heads the same way that IEIs can adjust and nudge Fe on the fly. You interpret for each other.

I'd actually associate "controlling" with LSEs (from the IEI perspective). It's like fighting for the steering wheel:

LSE: "You don't know what you're doing"
IEI: "You don't understand what I'm trying to accomplish"

[Nevar]

Heya, IEI here who also got really turned off by the "IEIs are helpless waifs who live in the magical world of ideas and can't pay bills" stereotype. Makes IEIs sound immature, like they're a princess waiting for their knight to rescue them. In reality I take plenty of leadership roles because I know I have the forward vision and the ability to delegate.

However, my leadership abilities do improve with a Se-type around. At times I have difficulty getting my feet off the ground. Like, I know what I want to accomplish, but it can be mentally taxing to work out how. Plan this, plan that, try to fit it all together... SLEs forge their own "how". They easily make moves, using creative Ti in a flow state to fit the situation together in their heads the same way that IEIs can adjust and nudge Fe on the fly. You interpret for each other.

I'd actually associate "controlling" with LSEs (from the IEI perspective). It's like fighting for the steering wheel:

LSE: "You don't know what you're doing"
IEI: "You don't understand what I'm trying to accomplish"

Great to hear I am not alone. You say fe subtype?

We are no SLE. Wish we may, but they are not IEI too wish they may.

They give me energy just by being there. I want and can do more with them around, which in turn thrill them to do more as well. Not working alone as they may tell you, they don't necessarily need a materialistic goal with us around and we don't necessarily need an overly idealistic goal with them around. We remove each other's fixation if subtypes are compatible.

I can get a similar kick of energy and confidence when I emmers myself in an action movie. Especially Vin Diesel.

[Nevar]

There we go. From the description of harmonizing subtype

"H-subtype at first sharply and even violently resists forcible demands, but then gradually submits and adapts to it. On the one hand, he is the weak link, but on the other hand, without his contribution the system loses vitality under conditions of the lack of energy resources."

[Nevar]

Thanks all for the feedback