choices

**Rubicon** · 01-26-2009, 01:51 PM

What functions do you think are evident in the following conversation?

You have no choice. This is what you have to do.

It’d be easier if I didn’t have a choice, but I do.

This way results in success; this one - failure. Who in their right mind would choose failure? So you don’t have a choice.

Well I do. I have a choice between success or failure then – if you want to label them like that.

But failure isn’t an option.

Why not?

What are you talking about? Of course it’s not an option.

I’m just saying that technically, I have a choice. I don’t understand why you want me to tell myself that I don’t, when I do. Do you think I can trick myself into believing there’s only one way to go about this?

It’s not about tricking. It’s about looking at the situation logically. There is only one logical way to go about this, and once you determine which way that is, you have to go that route. Why on earth would you go the other way?

It’s not about why. I’m just saying that I can’t pretend to myself that I don’t have a choice when I do.

But you don’t!! Success or failure. What sane person would choose failure?

That’s just zooming ahead to the end result though. If I were a robot, that would be really helpful. But it's not taking into account willpower or lack thereof, continued motivation and things like that.

So this is why you make your plans ahead of time. That way you’ve made a commitment in your head – it’s set in concrete, and you know you have no option but to stick to it.

But I do have an option! How is it stuck in concrete?!

etc..

**1981slater** · 01-26-2009, 01:57 PM

This conversation reminds me of these (BTW, I'd say the people of your conversation are superegos)

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=k9lo_qeeR6Y

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q3FlvsLFpY

**Warlord** · 01-26-2009, 02:00 PM

Person in cursive Ni.

**Rubicon** · 01-26-2009, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by 1981slater

This conversation reminds me of these

lol yeah (c:

(BTW, I'd say the people of your conversation are superegos)

Why superegos?

**redbaron** · 01-26-2009, 02:21 PM

is this you with your mom again?

**1981slater** · 01-26-2009, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jem

lol yeah (c:Why superegos?

TBH I'm not sure, but I think they (you?) are from different quadras, probably alpha and gamma. They value different things. It reminds me of a typical alpha-gamma talk: "do things my way, being different is wrong"- "fuck you, I know what is best for me"

**1981slater** · 01-26-2009, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by redbaron

is this you with your mom again?

...nothing escapes from redbaron's radar!

**Rubicon** · 01-26-2009, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by redbaron

is this you with your mom again?

**Rubicon** · 01-26-2009, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by 1981slater

TBH I'm not sure, but I think they (you?) are from different quadras, probably alpha and gamma. They value different things. It reminds me of a typical alpha-gamma talk: "do things my way, being different is wrong"- "fuck you, I know what is best for me"

oh ok thanks (c: :-/

**Wynch** · 01-26-2009, 03:37 PM

What stands out the most to me is Ne/Si irrational vs. Se/Ni rational.

**DirectorAbbie** · 01-26-2009, 03:48 PM

I think the italics person is a shallow idiot.

**strrrng** · 01-26-2009, 03:51 PM

Interesting that you posted that video, slater. Mr. Smith is a textbook Ti-ISTj. And the logic in that situation seemed sort of beta ST absolute'ish.

**1981slater** · 01-26-2009, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by strrrng

Interesting that you posted that video, slater. Mr. Smith is a textbook Ti-ISTj. And the logic in that situation seemed sort of beta ST absolute'ish.

Yeah!

Beta: you have two options, A and B

Whoever: B

Beta: don't you prefer A

Whoever: No

Beta: so, it's gonna be A for you. I'm happy you chose A

Whoever: aarrrggg

Beta: damn!

**FDG** · 01-26-2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Warlord

Person in cursive Ni.

It looks more Se-Ti to me.

**Wynch** · 01-26-2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by strrrng

Interesting that you posted that video, slater. Mr. Smith is a textbook Ti-ISTj. And the logic in that situation seemed sort of beta ST absolute'ish.

I agree, although I wouldn't put it past any ISXj to talk like that.

**munenori2** · 01-26-2009, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by 1981slater

Yeah!

Beta: you have two options, A and B

Whoever: B

Beta: don't you prefer A

Whoever: No

Beta: so, it's gonna be A for you. I'm happy you chose A

Whoever: aarrrggg

Beta: damn!

lol

I'd have a lot of trouble with the italicized argument if it was presented to me. Probably I'd end up thinking of random examples/situations as a challenge, for fun, and obviously to frustrate them until they gave up on me.

**strrrng** · 01-26-2009, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by mn0good

I agree, although I wouldn't put it past any ISXj to talk like that.

I couldn't see an ISFj being that peremptory about something dealing with a "logical" decision; they have an aversion to those types of formulations regarding people, choices, etc. They may definitely possess the same undertone of firmness and rigidity, but I don't think they would bother with absolutist categorical stuff.

**Trevor** · 01-26-2009, 09:05 PM

The italics person is probably Se/Ni valuing. The other one is Si/Ne. The italics person seems to be a rational feeler, but I'm not so sure about that.

**1981slater** · 01-26-2009, 09:08 PM

The person in italics drinks Pepsi. The other doesn't.

Creepy-male · 01-26-2009, 09:32 PM

This way results in success; this one - failure. Who in their right mind would choose failure? So you don’t have a choice.

Well I do. I have a choice between success or failure then – if you want to label them like that.

================================================== ========

The first person is thinking along the lines of the choice defines the motive

The second person is thinking along the lines of the motive defines the choice

Both are right, its just a matter of perception - one is looking outward-in the other inward-out

**Warlord** · 01-27-2009, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by FDG

It looks more Se-Ti to me.

Yeah I speculated that the person is ISTj. But the Ni-valuing was most obvious to me.

**ArchonAlarion** · 01-27-2009, 03:41 PM

A "failure" now may lead to future successes.

I'd probably kill that person.

**FDG** · 01-27-2009, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Warlord

Yeah I speculated that the person is ISTj. But the Ni-valuing was most obvious to me.

Ah, you meant Ni-valuing, then okay, yes, that seems to be a resolute quadra kind of thing.

**Mediator Kam** · 01-27-2009, 10:44 PM

The person in italics really brought up some nice points, on success vs failure. If you don't want to fail, there is only one choice in any situation. Although as Mr. Mariner said,

A "failure" now may lead to future successes.

**Rubicon** · 01-27-2009, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kamangir

The person in italics really brought up some nice points, on success vs failure. If you don't want to fail, there is only one choice in any situation. Although as Mr. Mariner said,

A "failure" now may lead to future successes.

Yeah ... I get the concept of "choosing success" and whatnot - my main problem with that viewpoint is the assumption that there is only one road to success and the implication that the definition of success is something universally agreed upon .. as opposed to an individually-defined thing. But there's no point in arguing it with italics :-p ... seriously, we're as different as night and day. Which makes me think that perhaps we're conflictors. There are just too many ?? moments ... where we just can't believe that each other would think or feel the way she does.

**Mediator Kam** · 01-28-2009, 12:10 AM

Success is relative. Just tell her that. Just hit her in the face and say it. (:

**Rubicon** · 01-28-2009, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Kamangir

Success is relative. Just tell her that. Just hit her in the face and say it. (:

Ok - I'll let you know how it goes!

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