ILI-LSE Supervision relationship (INTp & ESTj)

[Airman]

Could something like this work, based on socionics theory and practice?
I see INTPs as not getting me, most of the time they just don´t get what I say, or when they do get a joke or something, they don´t give much appreciation to it. They seem far too pessimistic also. I wonder what a relationship btw. an ESTJ and an INTP would look like. Anyone has any ideas? Is the INTP really obstruse and incapable of understanding the enthusiasm and character of the ESTJ, and the ESTJ unable to understand what the INTP wants but never says explicitly so it´s like the ESTJ has to read her mind which I´m yet incapable of doing lol.

[Crispy]

It would look like the ILI is supervising the LSE.

[Airman]

It would look like the ILI is supervising the LSE.

Yes... fuck.

[Saoshyant]

The communication between myself and other ESTj's is absolutely brutal. The ESTJ - TE subtypes just rub me the wrong way. I have had one for a boss the past year and it has not been pleasant. She "nags" the rules and never follows them. The one thing I respect from them is that they can push other people and get the best out of them.

Reasons for communication problems:
Whenever they talk, I feel they are repeating information I already know. Then they repeat this information or talk louder because they feel I am not attentive.
When this results in 'correcting' my mistakes it comes off as rubbing salt in the wound.

I often have nothing to add to their comments. I did not realize that I might be patronizing them until I read a supervor relation description. I try to avoid it, but it is just natural.


I have no idea what to do to improve this relationships. I do feel that both sides want it to work out because of their competitive nature, but the communication gap is way too large ime. The best bet for the ESTj is to leave an INTp alone!

[DirectorAbbie]

I happen to be quite familiar with this topic. I was best friends with an ILI for two years and grew very attached to him.

Whenever they talk, I feel they are repeating information I already know. Then they repeat this information or talk louder because they feel I am not attentive.

We expect a grunt so we know you heard us. Of course, hearing and not grunting is personally less aggrivating than not hearing and grunting, like my SEI brother does sometimes.

He really seemed to enjoy making me contradict myself, which is hard to do unless you're an INTx who's in the mood to argue. He enjoyed confusing me more than I disliked being confused, so I didn't mind.

I minded that he never talked about himself. When someone's interested in hearing about someone, they're glad to talk about themselves, right? Apparently not.

I loved it when we teamed up against someone, like our EII-Ne friend. I didn't like it when he started teaming up with people against me, but didn't mind nearly as much when I knew it was temporary.

ILIs are very whitty. If someone followed one around for a year and wrote down things they said, it would sell. Of course, the person would have to be very careful, since an ILI could probably tell they were being followed and wouldn't like it.

It's a very frustrating roller coaster. It was either terrific or horrible, with not much of an in-between. When he seemed unfriendly, I always felt like I did something wrong and agonized over what it could be. I'm still wondering why he decided we weren't friends anymore. Of course he was silent when I asked. He never liked being asked "Why" questions.

[Airman]

I´m kind of into an ILI girl. VERY MUCH. And she´s into me very much.

FUCK.

[DirectorAbbie]

And she´s into me very much.

Really? How'd you find out?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Beautiful sky]

Could something like this work, based on socionics theory and practice?
I see INTPs as not getting me, most of the time they just don´t get what I say, or when they do get a joke or something, they don´t give much appreciation to it. They seem far too pessimistic also. I wonder what a relationship btw. an ESTJ and an INTP would look like. Anyone has any ideas? Is the INTP really obstruse and incapable of understanding the enthusiasm and character of the ESTJ, and the ESTJ unable to understand what the INTP wants but never says explicitly so it´s like the ESTJ has to read her mind which I´m yet incapable of doing lol.

I would say that you are right, both INTp's and ISTp's can be pessimistic sometimes. The relationship doesn't look all that great. My girl-friend, the ESTj, who is marred to an ISTp ( I think you mean ISTp and not INTp here, they can be easily confused for the other, but INTp are not naturally attracted to ESTj), has a difficult time with her husband. He will often not get her jokes, just as you described. He puts all his chores on her and she is often overloaded with chores, plus inability to communicate and get him to do things, frustrates her. She is often met by frustration when he doesn't do simple tasks and when he fails to have an intellectually fulfilling conversation with her. He is often quiet and passive, and not proactive to her complaints. It’s like trying to drag a horse to a well and not being able to communicate to it, to ask it to drink water. She gets a lot of blank stairs and a lot of laziness from him. Their energy is not at the same pace; my ESTj friend wanted to take ballroom dancing, where a partner was required, but often ended up going by herself because, although he gave impressions (when they were first dating) that he was excited and willing to do many activities with her, he ended up opting out of so many. Communication problems and driving her to overwork so that he can buy the next materially fulfilling object are among the many problems they face.

[Microknight]

I would say that you are right, bot INTp's and ISTp's can be pessimistic sometimes. The relationship doesn't look all that great. My girl-friend, the ESTj, who is marred to an ISTp ( I think you mean ISTp and not INTp here, they can be easily confused for the other, but INTp are not naturally attracted to ESTj), has a difficult time with her husband. He will often not get her jokes, just as you described. He puts all his chores on her and she is often overloaded with chores, plus inability to communicate and get him to do things, frustrates her. She is often met by frustration when he doesn't do simple tasks and when he fails to have an intellectually fulfilling conversation with her. He is often quite and passive, and not proactive to her complaints. It’s like trying to drag a horse to a well and not being able to communicate to it, to ask it to drink water. She gets a lot of blank stairs and a lot of laziness from him. Their energy is not at the same pace; my ESTj friend wanted to take ballroom dancing, where a partner was required, but often ended up going by herself because, although he gave impressions (when they were first dating) that he was excited and willing to do many activities with her, he ended up opting out of so many. Communication problems and driving her to overwork so that he can buy the next materially fulfilling object are among the many problems they face.

Spot on. My older brother is LSE and this describes our relationship well. I just spent the last 6 months or so living with him and I am not going to do that again. Collaboration between us is often difficult and strained, because the LSE likes to plan things for US to do (when I would prefer to do no planning, to take advantage of a future situation.) . When the date to do something rolls around my brother would get often upset at my frequent absences, and say something like "Where were you? WE planned to do such and such..." And I would reply "No, YOU planned to do such and such, I planned nothing." From my point of view, he was including me in his plans without my consent. I, of course, would have no part in such a plan, as this gives another person undue control over my person. The only person that has control over my person is me.

The humor thing is also true. Nearly 100% of the time I find my brother's jokes (and indeed, most LSEs) to be lacking in cleverness or subtlety. On occasion I will think "That was quick witted, but not clever." This isn't a major sticking point, unlike the difficulty in collaboration, but it is nonetheless an important one, as it contributes to the relationship being boring.

Now if I take my experiences with my brother and apply them to the specific situation of the ILI-LSE relationship (and take this with a grain of salt, as it is completely subjective), I think that for a close relationship, this one is doomed from the start. The differences in energy level are going to leave the LSE frustrated and the ILI aloof. A more distant relationship may be alright, as from afar the LSE admires the ILI and the ILI finds the LSE useful.

I do have experiences with other LSEs, but none of those were close enough for me to make a judgment on the nature of the relationship.

That's it for now.

[Beautiful sky]

Spot on. My older brother is LSE and this describes our relationship well. I just spent the last 6 months or so living with him and I am not going to do that again. Collaboration between us is often difficult and strained, because the LSE likes to plan things for US to do (when I would prefer to do no planning, to take advantage of a future situation.) . When the date to do something rolls around my brother would get often upset at my frequent absences, and say something like "Where were you? WE planned to do such and such..." And I would reply "No, YOU planned to do such and such, I planned nothing." From my point of view, he was including me in his plans without my consent. I, of course, would have no part in such a plan, as this gives another person undue control over my person. The only person that has control over my person is me.

The humor thing is also true. Nearly 100% of the time I find my brother's jokes (and indeed, most LSEs) to be lacking in cleverness or subtlety. On occasion I will think "That was quick witted, but not clever." This isn't a major sticking point, unlike the difficulty in collaboration, but it is nonetheless an important one, as it contributes to the relationship being boring.

Now if I take my experiences with my brother and apply them to the specific situation of the ILI-LSE relationship (and take this with a grain of salt, as it is completely subjective), I think that for a close relationship, this one is doomed from the start. The differences in energy level are going to leave the LSE frustrated and the ILI aloof. A more distant relationship may be alright, as from afar the LSE admires the ILI and the ILI finds the LSE useful.

I do have experiences with other LSEs, but none of those were close enough for me to make a judgment on the nature of the relationship.

That's it for now.

On the humor, every once in a while they get a good one, or so the literature says (just kidding!); they do get some good jokes, although the majority of them can be rather offending.

Yeah, LSE can be useful to ILI and SLI, especially with regards to doing things for them, that most often their duals would not ask them to do, like asking them to make a sandwich for them. (A particular situation comes to mind)

Also, the demanding and controling nature of LSE may bother the otherwise relaxed and easy ILI or SLI, this is that difference in energy. Where one gets something once the other needs more information to understand, or where one does something fast and in a hurry, the other often takes a long time, with attention to details, to accomplish the same task to their satisfaction, therefore, getting on each other's nerves, one telling the other to hurry up or to rush.

[Airman]

thanks.

I don´t mean ISTP Maritsa, she´s clearly INTP, not ISTP, she herself typed her that way after I typed her that way.

Anyway ISTP would be better than INTP , because INTP with ESTJ very much sucks, my father is INTP and there´s a big gap in communication it´s like he does not get me, just this. I´m getting this problem with this girl also she does not get me most of the time. And she´s too reclusive and into herself like my father... this is not a problem until there´s a lack of affection demonstration on the part of the INTP. They can seem totally cold and when you say that, they will say 'absolutely not' and start telling how they like you and admire you. But they just cannot do this. It´s a very complicated type for me to deal with.

[Beautiful sky]

thanks.

I don´t mean ISTP Maritsa, she´s clearly INTP, not ISTP, she herself typed her that way after I typed her that way.

Anyway ISTP would be better than INTP , because INTP with ESTJ very much sucks, my father is INTP and there´s a big gap in communication it´s like he does not get me, just this. I´m getting this problem with this girl also she does not get me most of the time. And she´s too reclusive and into herself like my father... this is not a problem until there´s a lack of affection demonstration on the part of the INTP. They can seem totally cold and when you say that, they will say 'absolutely not' and start telling how they like you and admire you. But they just cannot do this. It´s a very complicated type for me to deal with.

This ILI/ INTp member related very well to what I wrote.

[Creepy-cinq]

This ILI/ INTp member related very well to what I wrote.

Perhaps that member is actually ISTp.

[Beautiful sky]

Perhaps that member is actually ISTp.

That's the point I was trying to make with Airborne; that he can easily confuse the two.

[EyeSeeCold]

Anyone have experience with this relationship?

[Lobo]

I'd like to say that I've seen this happen irl, but I can't seem to remember where and when... What comes to mind is that the way INTps go about work related tasks, where they are able to somehow just do what is needed without really breaking a sweat unless they really have to or work around "the system," might be something intimidating for them. I think both types have a very different philosophy when it comes to how to get things done, or overcoming problems, be it at work or at home. The INTp approach (actually could apply to any type with some Ni focus) is to not work on things unless you really have to and not to do more than what is needed. I've noticed that sometimes LSEs don't look at the "big picture" about what they are doing and just expend more and more energy until the problem is solved, without noticing that there's actually a more efficient way of doing it if you have a lazier mentality about things .

[EyeSeeCold]

I was wondering about the effects of LSE getting PoLR hits.

[Creepy-Korpsey]

Anyone have experience with this relationship?

My old man was very possibly LSE. "Adversarial" described our relationship well.

A supervisor at one job was also likely LSE and we locked horns almost continually.

[Aiss]

Yes, but I may have issues with distinguishing LSEs and E1s here. I see those I know in real life a lot like Lobo describes, ants doing lots of low-level work, the effects of which they often don't consider in the first place. I definitely see them as energy-wasting and having workaholic tendencies, focusing on doing things rather than getting them done. It's kind of ambiguous because I consider it a negative trait for them, but it can be seen as positive for others, because if there's a particular work to be done, they'll usually do it. LSEs, followed by ESE, have probably the highest "work ethics" of the socion on average.

Relation-wise, they tend to implement my ideas, even those I'm not serious about, so I learned to be cautious about voicing those around them. It's important to show them you appreciate their work (don't call it useless even when it is!), even if in fact you value being able to minimize the effort and therefore don't care for the way they go about it. All in all - and that's probably a pretty good sign of supervision in general - I tend to like rather than respect them. I can see the conflict happening when supervisor is careless, or for social reasons the supervisee is supposed to have authority, for example when they're the parent, teacher, boss etc.

[DirectorAbbie]

Anyone have experience with this relationship?

A couple years' worth. What would you like to know?

[DirectorAbbie]

I was wondering about the effects of LSE getting PoLR hits.

I didn't have a problem with that. I knew he was a .

[Jarno]

Anyone have experience with this relationship?

yes.

it's nice to be the supervisor. hehehe.

but sex with LSE is boring.

[EyeSeeCold]

To be more specific, there was this one girl in my class, who I thought was an LSE or mabe LSI. Either way, she caught my attention and I was impressed by her interest in the unknown, Jimi Hendrix, hippie spirituality, nature etc, but whenever I tried to get close she just seemed like she was on the defense without ever actually being against my company. She seemed to be neurotic all the time and really stressed out.

If she was LSE, that would explain her behavior. If she was LSI that would explain my fascination.

[CILi]

I was impressed by her interest in the unknown, Jimi Hendrix, hippie spirituality...

She could be any type, to be fair.

...But she'd be a pretty unique LSE.

[EyeSeeCold]

Hmm yeah, she had a real business-like no nonsense demeanor though which is what led me to that conclusion.

[DirectorAbbie]

her interest in the unknown, Jimi Hendrix, hippie spirituality, nature etc

Those don't sound like LSE interests.

[EyeSeeCold]

I was just putting it out there. She was definitely introverted, home body. I guess the possible types are: ILI, LLI, LSI.