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Thread: ESEs/ESFjs and trust

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    Delilah's Avatar
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    Default ESEs/ESFjs and trust

    I have had two separate examples of ESE showing their trust is very easily broken, even by the possibility of an action (regardless of whether it gets materialized or not). Once I noticed with my landlady and the other time with someone involved in one of my leisure activities.

    Has anyone else noticed anything like that or has an explanation for it? @Tallmo & @sorrows
    Last edited by Delilah; 12-10-2017 at 10:33 PM.

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    @sorrows, thanks for that.

    For me it's quite different, from what i've observed I try to avoid things that have likely negative consequences for me in the field of relations with others, but i give people much more leeway, like it's not about a sole action, this regarding people i care about (and i speak only for myself so don't take my self typing as measuring stick for ESI pls).

    Basically, at this activity this ESE was talking about how she does donations of stuffed animals - which she makes herself - to orphanages in many places, including internationally. She said she was about to give about a dozen for donations via a guy travelling to a distant location (for destination some orphanage) and the guy had jokingly told her that, hey, not only would i do that for you (aka deliver the stuffed animals) , I could even help you sell them if you wanted! And just the mentioning of selling the stuffed animals was enough for the ESE to change her mind and she decided against giving him the stuffed teddy bears for delivery lol. So that's the most recent experience. I thought it was a bit overboard but who knows maybe she was right to be skeptical though to me what that guy said seemed like a pure joke. I dunno lol but it seemed like her way of judging the situation was very black and white.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    Yeah I might do the same. Many ESEs take their donated time/efforts very seriously. Well in general Fe and Fi leads are fairly intense about their own values. Also we don't always like jokes. We are kind of intense and serious. A little like Reese Witherspoon's character in Election.
    Yeah, I've noticed something like that too. Like i personally expressed my understanding to this ESE but I was also bewildered at how seriously she took that suggestive idea of selling the stuffed toy - like i could see she was serious about it but in a way that left me feeling strange about the whole thing. I'm afraid the ESI - ESE relations are not very good and with this ESE (we volunteer together) i keep a long distance of communication for fear that I might offend her with any jokes I might make (which I make sometimes with a straight face so it comes across as serious to the recipient lol - i'm just not the best joker out there haha )

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    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
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    @sorrows
    With the ILI and SLIs I know they prefer this kind of open and relaxed long term friendships where it is no commitment, no strong opinions/ emotions and each person has a lot of freedom. They will disappear for months, to show up and reunite as if no time went by.
    Thats exactly how I act in friendship
    Last edited by Hope; 12-11-2017 at 01:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    @sorrows, thanks for that.

    For me it's quite different, from what i've observed I try to avoid things that have likely negative consequences for me in the field of relations with others, but i give people much more leeway, like it's not about a sole action, this regarding people i care about (and i speak only for myself so don't take my self typing as measuring stick for ESI pls).

    Basically, at this activity this ESE was talking about how she does donations of stuffed animals - which she makes herself - to orphanages in many places, including internationally. She said she was about to give about a dozen for donations via a guy travelling to a distant location (for destination some orphanage) and the guy had jokingly told her that, hey, not only would i do that for you (aka deliver the stuffed animals) , I could even help you sell them if you wanted! And just the mentioning of selling the stuffed animals was enough for the ESE to change her mind and she decided against giving him the stuffed teddy bears for delivery lol. So that's the most recent experience. I thought it was a bit overboard but who knows maybe she was right to be skeptical though to me what that guy said seemed like a pure joke. I dunno lol but it seemed like her way of judging the situation was very black and white.
    Honestly this does not sound like an ESE to me, more like an Ni mobilizing type who tends to be suspicious of others by default. Ni valuing at any rate - an Ne valuing extrovert is generally the most naive when it comes to believing in people's innate goodness. It's ironic that @sorrows brings up the character in Election who IMO is a very good depiction of a Gamma type - most likely ESI? haven't watched it in a while. But yeah, this kind of black-and-white judgment of character is typically ESI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Honestly this does not sound like an ESE to me, more like an Ni mobilizing type who tends to be suspicious of others by default. Ni valuing at any rate - an Ne valuing extrovert is generally the most naive when it comes to believing in people's innate goodness. It's ironic that @sorrows brings up the character in Election who IMO is a very good depiction of a Gamma type - most likely ESI? haven't watched it in a while. But yeah, this kind of black-and-white judgment of character is typically ESI.
    I am not as black and white about things such as my example myself, but what do you make of @sorrows relating to it? Do you doubt her type as ESE too? I think ESI is more passive aggressive about stuff like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I am not as black and white about things such as my example myself, but what do you make of @sorrows relating to it? Do you doubt her type as ESE too? I think ESI is more passive aggressive about stuff like that.
    I don't really have a strong opinion on her type, but recall that I didn't type you as ESI either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I don't really have a strong opinion on her type, but recall that I didn't type you as ESI either.
    lol well for what it's worth, i didn't use myself as measuring stick for ESI in this case, and i explicitly said so much in this thread.

    Regarding the woman I talked about, i've considered both Esi in the past and ESE more recently. She is very much about the atmosphere of the place, like things being good for everyone. But yes, do tell about @sorrows type lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    I thought the character is Election was like a young Hilary Clinton, LIE or LSE type. But the seriousness she has, the passion, the concern and drive is very-ESE like. When it comes to our missions, values etc. we have that same strength. I have her strength. Maybe just nicer. And more polite.
    I figured as much. You don't seem like the ruthless, exacting power-seeker to me.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Has anyone else noticed anything like that or has an explanation for it? @Tallmo & @sorrows
    No, I haven't noticed. But many ESEs have the tendency to react strongly over (in my opinion) minor details.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    The qualities of a person's trust depend strongly on that person's prior life experience. If someone has a lot of negative experiences with people, that person will not be very trusting. Having negative experiences with people isn't always dependent on one's social skills. Sometimes, a person simply grows up in a harsh environment where most people are untrustworthy. That influences how someone trusts.

    In other words: not type related.

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    Trust is about possibilities - traits Ne, future actions Ni.
    S types more nervously take the negative relating to trust. Also they are easier to mistake or be fooled, so overprotect.

    Break your promise to *SE a couple of times without good explanations and he may prefer to stop dealing with you. Even if your actions did nothing meaningfully bad.

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    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post

    It was a 2 year relationship but it ended and not on great terms. Do you always like to keep the door open? I tried to be friendly with him but it felt too messy! He also held no grudge or deep feelings. I just could not understand it for the life of me. 2 years together when you are young is a long-time. Its meaningful.
    No, I rarely keep any open door in romantic relationships. I'm like you described just in friendships.
    I would never keep or entertain the idea of a romantic relation with someone if I don't want it enough (if its not enoughly appealing to make me invest myself and resources in them). It would be also annoying for me and a waste, because it requires effort, investment and mental energy. Anyway, it can happens that ppl think that I dont care about them or something just because I don't make a huge display of emotion.

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