Allie's Type Thread

[Lotus]

I was skeptical about doing this, but now I'm too curious. I've always heard some pretty diverse typings (such as ENTp, ESFj, ISFp, INTj, ESTp, INFp, ESFp, ISFj, ENFp) for myself. Vote if you've actually read anything of significance from me (probably only 3 different posts) or have seen me on my webcam in the Stickam Chats... which I participate in way too much.


Why does everyone have such difficulty typing me?


EDIT







BTW

If you want to VI me, go on the socionics Stickam chats or something... I'm more comfortable being "live" than recording a video. Videos are boring. I could post pictures, but most of you have seen me already.
Ah well, type type. I'll write more if necessary.

[xyz]

ugh.

[Wittmont]

She is not ugh, she is cute.

[Gilly]

IEI

[strrrng]

pointless thread. a bunch of half-ass arguments are soon to come!

[Lotus]

.

[strrrng]

lol zomg allie just expressed some personal sentiments. my vote is changed to ISFj!

[aestrivex]

And to some, because I don't post seriously here much, it's been assumed that I don't care for intellectual pursuits. I bet this person has no idea how many "serious" posts I've written, that I've found to exceed the post limit, and ended up just saving on my computer to work on later.

i think i grasp that more than you realize; this is what the whole "philosophical mode" thing is about. philosophical mode perhaps isn't the best way of referring to it since it's often a bit more tangible, but this isn't just something i'm ignoring.

i get your confusion though that a million people say a million different things, so how can you figure anything out. i'd say that this is a potential manifestation of the sort of reliance on communal thought that seems to accompany weak, unvalued Te. however, i've noticed this phenomenon in other ILIs as well (such as XoX or jonathan, both of whom can be argued as IEI as an interesting alternative), so i'm unsure what to make of it completely, but your sort of professed confusion and sort of action of giving up and not caring about these matters anymore can easily be interpreted as a beta NF trait in and of itself.

Definitive qualities... I might be able to name now.
First, I'm startlingly indifferent to almost everything. I express concern, anger, frustration, annoyance, aggression, and other emotions that people take as real. They usually aren't um "real" exactly. I'm actually pretty limited in my moods. I either feel uncertain, anxious, irritated, intense, happy, or just completely unemotional... not much else. It has become second nature to express myself accordingly regarding the circumstance. I don't consider it faking emotions or "acting" because I'm not consciously manipulating my behavior. It's natural for me to respond based on the environment and/or situation rather than on what I actually feel. Annoyingly though, people like to assume that these are genuine feelings. "Allie why are you so angry?" Which surprises me, because I'm really not angry at all. I just like to over-express things... it's somewhat amusing to me? So if I change "mood" quickly I look slightly insane... because mood swings aren't healthy! But if one keeps in mind that it's most likely just an attempt to entertain myself, rather than a reflection of my internal state, I'm perfectly normal. Laugh.
Now that that's out of the way I'm not sure what else I can say about myself. As I said before... I'm indifferent to most things and I tend to contradict my own qualities... how can I possibly continue? What else about me is definite enough to write? I feel like I have way too many misinterpretations going on about me, slowly becoming concrete the longer I wait to counter them. I'm going to continue doing that here.

for anyone new to this discussion, this is the single most important paragraph about allie.

[xyz]

I say, Allie is ISTp

[aestrivex]

it shows that she's probably not INFp.

Yeah, I agree with Glam, none of what she wrote really rang INFp to me at all.

bizarre. i'm unsure exactly what to make of both of your responses.

[strrrng]

bizarre. i'm unsure exactly what to make of both of your responses.

As I am unsure what to make of yours. Why don't you explain why that paragraph is so significant?

[strrrng]

I was wondering if that's in part super-id: plugging in an outward expression of emotion to go with a circumstance or situation when you don't really feel it internally

yea, that's what I thought. her Fe seems so much more unfocused and broad than an INFp's.

[FDG]

bizarre. i'm unsure exactly what to make of both of your responses.

That you're fucking wrong, and you should STOP pushing types onto other people. STOP.

Anyway, I think Allie is ENTp

[FDG]

you're one to talk!

Yeah. I have never used the same methodology as niff's, so I can definitely talk.

[aestrivex]

As I am unsure what to make of yours. Why don't you explain why that paragraph is so significant?

i perceived it as being full of Ni + Fe, and frankly i'm surprised other people can't see it that way.

since you asked so nicely (i'm surprised by that, fwiw), i have no reason nor desire to refuse your request.

Okay. I've always found describing myself difficult. I feel as if there are no defining characteristics that I can set in writing. I can think of myself as one thing but can easily see how I could contradict it too. The only thing about myself I am certain of being is that I am uncertain.

uncertainty: Ni trait. this is a remarkably recurrent and over-arching Ni theme in this kind of post, which is an example of allie's more "serious" writing.

I'm reluctant to say it's function-related, since it's probably just me being confused again. And this isn't an identity issue, I know who I am. I know myself in essence, but translating it into an unbiased, focused, and objective self-description isn't going to happen.

"nobody can understand me; my experience transcends words. i wish i could communicate the concept." another Ni theme.

Actually I'm not sure if I trust any description of me. When I read/listen to arguments for my type it kind of surprises me to listen to the things people say about me. I seem to give off diverse impressions to other people. I've been seen as both "a bit awkward" and also "how is she awkward in any way? She's extremely confident and comfortable with herself!"
Other polarities? "definitely extraverted" to "you don't seem extraverted at all", "weird, crazy" to "laid-back, calm", "spontaneous and expressive" to "non-spontaneous and deadpan", "very sexual/intense" to "modest" and I'm not sure where I fall within these extremes. And I don't know whether these are supposed to be good or bad qualities anymore because if these antonyms can be used to describe one thing, then they've just lost all meaning. And to some, because I don't post seriously here much, it's been assumed that I don't care for intellectual pursuits. I bet this person has no idea how many "serious" posts I've written, that I've found to exceed the post limit, and ended up just saving on my computer to work on later. I wonder if another person, who says I'm Fi leading because of how I express my like/dislike/opinions on things knows that I'm joking about it 70% of the time. Or that sometimes when I am making a joke the content within it is actually accurate but the context is presented as a joke to mask that I'm telling you the truth. I wonder if they know that. Or even the people who assume the emotions I'm displaying and the statements I make are accurate expressions of my inner state, when they usually are not.

first of all, the thing about "inaccurate expressions of my inner state" is an Fe theme all the way. it is comparatively easy to see why Te/Fi types might make that mistake superficially; allie has a very outwardly similar way of expressing herself to SEEs such as liveandletlive or khamelion. prolonged interaction reveals what to me seems like the rather obvious fact that this is not actually the way she operates; some Fi persons (and indeed, at least one Fe person) have criticized what they perceive as her duplicitous and/or manipulative nature; along the lines of having priveliged information about somebody revealed to people that were not supposed to hear it.


allie's complaint that i have stated that she is not intellectual and never serious i now think is a legitimate response to another Te-biased perception. she rarely is willing to discuss things like her socionics type or engage in arguments about matters such as this. in communication with me, she has responded that she finds me a little bit hard to talk to:

Alexandra shutup (21:25:53) < you're actually a bit intimidating to discuss any thoughts or ideas with, mostly because you say things like "this is frustrating" or "this is stupid" which makes me extremely uncomfortable to discuss what i think

(21:27:27) < i hate when what i am saying is not communicated effectively and also if i feel like the other person is cringing trying to understand its relevance

(21:33:15) < hmm, your style of communication is like my fathers. i remember if i couldnt say something brief, relevant, and accurately then he made me feel like i wasnt worth listening to. i think this has made me insecure about explaining things in general without having time to organize my thoughts prior to discussion.

this to me is a response of a Te polr type to a situation in which i am demanding the use of Te from her. all of the ideas herein seem very typical sentiments of IEIs. the "non-intellectual" perception comes from a determined reticence to share her ideas, for fear of making a mistake and being criticized for it. (perhaps parallel to the ILI's reticence to act in social situations, from a similar fear of failure).

how many ILEs can identify with a "reticence to share their ideas?"


her "serious" posts make perfect sense to me as manifestations of an IEI in a mode where they are unconcerned with the prospect of failing to explain her ideas; also perhaps why they have rarely come on the topic of socionics, where she expects people such as myself to breathe down her throat.

Definitive qualities... I might be able to name now.
First, I'm startlingly indifferent to almost everything.

the inperturbability of Ni. this was another one of my observations from stickam interactions which i have addressed countless times.

I express concern, anger, frustration, annoyance, aggression, and other emotions that people take as real. They usually aren't um "real" exactly. I'm actually pretty limited in my moods. I either feel uncertain, anxious, irritated, intense, happy, or just completely unemotional... not much else. It has become second nature to express myself accordingly regarding the circumstance. I don't consider it faking emotions or "acting" because I'm not consciously manipulating my behavior.

there you have it. according to her own words, such expression occurs as "second nature."

i am truly lost as to where people might claim Fe superid from this, and from the instances of her rather open and natural expressiveness on stickam. her emotionality is "unfocused?"


i don't get it at all.

It's natural for me to respond based on the environment and/or situation rather than on what I actually feel. Annoyingly though, people like to assume that these are genuine feelings. "Allie why are you so angry?" Which surprises me, because I'm really not angry at all. I just like to over-express things... it's somewhat amusing to me? So if I change "mood" quickly I look slightly insane... because mood swings aren't healthy! But if one keeps in mind that it's most likely just an attempt to entertain myself, rather than a reflection of my internal state, I'm perfectly normal. Laugh.

more Fe.

character limit exceeded; continued in next post.

[aestrivex]

Now that that's out of the way I'm not sure what else I can say about myself. As I said before... I'm indifferent to most things and I tend to contradict my own qualities... how can I possibly continue? What else about me is definite enough to write? I feel like I have way too many misinterpretations going on about me, slowly becoming concrete the longer I wait to counter them. I'm going to continue doing that here.


WOW!
I love how the very next day after I stopped taking medication for ADHD suddenly my type is being questioned. Suddenly, I am no longer ENTp, but an Se-leading type: ESTp or ESFp.
Taking that 70MG dose every morning does calm me down, I'll admit... but it does not induce a personality change. When I'm not on it... I'm described as more "random", "social", "expressive", "impulsive", "crazy", "insane" etc... but when I am on it (like right now) I can actually sit down and focus on something, I'm completely in control (both emotionally and mentally) with my impulses, I'm certainly more "serious", and best of all I can actually be interested in learning without getting distracted within 30 seconds of attempting it. If prescription meds are what make me ENTp, then what does the word "personality" even mean in the socionics context?

while "crazy" might be an accurate way of describing you, it doesn't connote Ne nor an Ne lifestyle focus. rather, your attempts to stimulate yourself often seem to be largely connected to the presence of Fe, and hold an Se DS flavor to them as well:

ILIs are often characterized by their inertia. If left to their own devices, ILIs may choose to do relatively little to interact with the outside world. When they do interact with the outside world, ILIs often find their activities to be empty and unfulfilling. To ILIs, life is often characterized by periods of stimulation. For the ILI, however, true stimulation is often spontaneous, and interludes between periods of stimulation are often characterized by tedium, inertia, and apathy. ILIs are often not very adept at finding new areas of interest, and may seek to continue to reproduce past experiences instead of moving on to new things. In order to break out of this cycle, ILIs require an outside stimulus of spontaneity and activity. With such a degree of spontaneity introduced into their lives, the tedium and perceived meaninglessness is replaced by a constant state of activity in which the ILI can experience new things and escape from the confines of his own mind.

allie's focus does not seem to be towards something new and unusual so much as something simple and not requiring much mental focus.

the craziness as well as the calm are both appropriate to the overall lens of the IEI mindset. ADHD might be an explanation for why allie seems more overstimulated and restless than other IEIs (not to say that there aren't a myriad of other plausible explanations as well, but i'm just not very inclined to cite ADHD as a cause for why something in socionics doesn't work the way it should).

If being excessively social or intensity-seeking or impulsive mean I cannot be an NT type... then I must be two different personalities. I feel like I'm going in the same direction as my last paragraph... but there's something I do want to add. Hearing other people talk about me only shows that I can embody different extremes... is there a type for that? No, socionics probably doesn't allow that. I have to fit somewhere, I have to be describable, I have to embody a description to have a personality. I'm, um... slightly confused right now.

not so much as that there are certain "extremes" that are ultimately oversimplifications of who people are and aren't important in the context of certain IM configurations.

along these lines also, i don't think there's anything wrong with an IEI 7, if that's what you think you are, E-wise.

Well, to be completely honest, I simply identified with very little of what she wrote. It felt very foreign to me and differed to my own personal way of perceiving things such as feelings. I often find that when I read things from other IEI's I can find pieces that seem to instantly click with me, and it becomes clear to me that these people can process things very similarly to the way that I would process them in my own mind. When I read Allies description of herself It seemed rather vague to me and it was as if I couldn't piece things together and build those bridges like I can with other IEI's.

Now I'm not sure If you're going to take that with a grain of salt or not, and perhaps it's not good enough evidence against IEI for Allie, but I really don't know how else I can put it right now.

based on past observations, i sort of think you've largely gotten it right in this respect and are able to offer serious insights on the topic of IEIs.

i'm unsure that the perceived differences (clearly there are some differences, even before your claim that you don't resonate with her particularly) are really an important indication as to that she's not IEI.

but overall i'm surprised by your reaction.

That you're fucking wrong, and you should STOP pushing types onto other people. STOP.

Anyway, I think Allie is ENTp

i appreciate your confidence in me. you should STOP telling me what to do just because you have no idea what socionics is.

[strrrng]

uncertainty: Ni trait. this is a remarkably recurrent and over-arching Ni theme in this kind of post, which is an example of allie's more "serious" writing. uncertainty can be correlated with Ni, but the uncertainty she expressed in that post was by no means enough to conclude that it was based on Ni

"nobody can understand me; my experience transcends words. i wish i could communicate the concept." another Ni theme. I really doubt she was alluding to an ineffable experience. She was just being smart and not jumping to conclusions - something many people could learn from

this to me is a response of a Te polr type to a situation in which i am demanding the use of Te from her. all of the ideas herein seem very typical sentiments of IEIs. the "non-intellectual" perception comes from a determined reticence to share her ideas, for fear of making a mistake and being criticized for it. (perhaps parallel to the ILI's reticence to act in social situations, from a similar fear of failure). did u ever consider that she maybe found u close-minded or too nitpicking to say certain things to?

the inperturbability of Ni. this was another one of my observations from stickam interactions which i have addressed countless times. see, how is this Ni-related? I mean, it can be a manifestation, but there can be other causes for such a behavior, most of which are not type-related

there you have it. according to her own words, such expression occurs as "second nature."

i am truly lost as to where people might claim Fe superid from this, and from the instances of her rather open and natural expressiveness on stickam. her emotionality is "unfocused?"
umm yeah, it could easily be a super-id. an Fe ego person might be more apt to manipulate the emotional context of the circumstances instead of merely reacting to them. her changeability in that area doesn't exactly suggest superb confidence in Fe, does it?

while "crazy" might be an accurate way of describing you, it doesn't connote Ne nor an Ne lifestyle focus. rather, your attempts to stimulate yourself often seem to be largely connected to the presence of Fe, and hold an Se DS flavor to them as well: the intensity she describes stems primarily from an sx instinct. you may dismiss this as rubbish, but not everything is socionics-related. sx is primarily about seeking intense experiences. Se DS is more about wanting someone to throw reality in your face, so to speak.

along these lines also, i don't think there's anything wrong with an IEI 7, if that's what you think you are, E-wise. I find it hard to believe that any introvert could have the consistency of high energy that a 7 possesses

1 character, fuck socionics.

[Rubicon]

And to some, because I don't post seriously here much, it's been assumed that I don't care for intellectual pursuits. I bet this person has no idea how many "serious" posts I've written, that I've found to exceed the post limit, and ended up just saving on my computer to work on later. I wonder if another person, who says I'm Fi leading because of how I express my like/dislike/opinions on things knows that I'm joking about it 70% of the time. Or that sometimes when I am making a joke the content within it is actually accurate but the context is presented as a joke to mask that I'm telling you the truth. I wonder if they know that. Or even the people who assume the emotions I'm displaying and the statements I make are accurate expressions of my inner state, when they usually are not.

Definitive qualities... I might be able to name now.
First, I'm startlingly indifferent to almost everything. I express concern, anger, frustration, annoyance, aggression, and other emotions that people take as real. They usually aren't um "real" exactly. I'm actually pretty limited in my moods. I either feel uncertain, anxious, irritated, intense, happy, or just completely unemotional... not much else. It has become second nature to express myself accordingly regarding the circumstance. I don't consider it faking emotions or "acting" because I'm not consciously manipulating my behavior. It's natural for me to respond based on the environment and/or situation rather than on what I actually feel. Annoyingly though, people like to assume that these are genuine feelings. "Allie why are you so angry?" Which surprises me, because I'm really not angry at all. I just like to over-express things... it's somewhat amusing to me? So if I change "mood" quickly I look slightly insane... because mood swings aren't healthy! But if one keeps in mind that it's most likely just an attempt to entertain myself, rather than a reflection of my internal state, I'm perfectly normal. Laugh.

Wow. I relate to all of this to an extraordinary degree ... more when I'm unhealthy though .... I feel like I have a wider range of accessable emotions when I'm feeling good. I don't think we're the same type, but I could see Fe creative working.

[Ezra]

pointless thread. a bunch of half-ass arguments are soon to come!

What, from you? You seem to be the master of these.

[Ezra]

FWIW, I like niffweed's IEI argument over at SW, because his rationalisations make a lot of sense. Not only this, but Allie's actual reasons for ILE are skewered.

[Rubicon]

what exactly is it that you relate with in that? i'm curious.

I wonder if another person, who says I'm Fi leading because of how I express my like/dislike/opinions on things knows that I'm joking about it 70% of the time.

I often pretend to pull people up on Fi-related stuff because I want to see how they react. Because I admire people who think for themselves and don't keep rules just for the sake of appearances.

Or that sometimes when I am making a joke the content within it is actually accurate but the context is presented as a joke to mask that I'm telling you the truth.

If I think I may be ridiculed - so I can get an idea of how people would receive the information if they knew I was serious.

Definitive qualities... I might be able to name now.
First, I'm startlingly indifferent to almost everything. I express concern, anger, frustration, annoyance, aggression, and other emotions that people take as real. They usually aren't um "real" exactly.

The being indifferent is when I'm unhealthy. I hate feeling indifferent, so I usually avoid people when I'm like that. I don't like faking concern and all that. I could fake anything if I wanted to. I might get angry because I feel I should to show that I have some self-respect - though I couldn't care less.

I'm actually pretty limited in my moods. I either feel uncertain, anxious, irritated, intense, happy, or just completely unemotional... not much else.

I'm usually calm. I guess all of my moods are mixed with calmness, which sort of waters them all down. lol But I guess i can feel huge changes of mood inside with few people noticing. I can be ecstatic one minute, depressed the next and the person I'm talking with would be none the wiser. But I'm thinking as I write, and I guess that's not always true. lol If I'm close to the person, I guess I'd show it more.

It has become second nature to express myself accordingly regarding the circumstance. I don't consider it faking emotions or "acting" because I'm not consciously manipulating my behavior. It's natural for me to respond based on the environment and/or situation rather than on what I actually feel.

Thinking about this more, I'm not sure if I was interpreting Allie correctly. I relate to expressing myself according to the circumstance regardless of what I'm feeling ... but I'm thinking more in terms of being polite, like trying not to look bored when someone's going on and on, or looking cheery even if I'm feeling bad at a social event or something.

Annoyingly though, people like to assume that these are genuine feelings. "Allie why are you so angry?" Which surprises me, because I'm really not angry at all. I just like to over-express things... it's somewhat amusing to me? So if I change "mood" quickly I look slightly insane... because mood swings aren't healthy! But if one keeps in mind that it's most likely just an attempt to entertain myself, rather than a reflection of my internal state, I'm perfectly normal.

I don't think I've ever been truly angry. I'll get irritated or sad, but not angry. But I may go into great detail of why I'm irritated (usually if someone asks), and I get involved in the discussion and people think "wow - you're really getting worked up over a petty issue." - when really, the irritation was left behind in the dust the moment I started talking, and I'm just enjoying the discussion. I like explaining myself thoroughly. I usually frown when I'm explaining something too which doesn't help. lol

[aestrivex]

Thinking about this more, I'm not sure if I was interpreting Allie correctly. I relate to expressing myself according to the circumstance regardless of what I'm feeling ... but I'm thinking more in terms of being polite, like trying not to look bored when someone's going on and on, or looking cheery even if I'm feeling bad at a social event or something.

possibly a difference between alpha and beta Fe.

[Exodus]

bizarre. i'm unsure exactly what to make of both of your responses.

The point is that Fe ego types DO try to honestly express what they are feeling at any given moment, and are in no way "limited in their moods".

Why does everyone have such difficulty typing me?

This yet again betrays your weak Ti - the fact that people disagree has no bearing on their individual level of certainty.

Also, I would attribute your utter inability to identify the most essential aspects of your personality to weak Ne.

I have been getting INFp a lot recently. I still see myself as ENTp, but now I'm considering other types more. I'm neither Gamma nor Delta. My Ti use is pointed out more than anything else when I write.

Somebody, anybody, please provide some kind of example of this.

I wonder if another person, who says I'm Fi leading because of how I express my like/dislike/opinions on things knows that I'm joking about it 70% of the time.

This is beside the point, given that you hardly ever give objective evaluations of things as Ti ego types do.

Or that sometimes when I am making a joke the content within it is actually accurate but the context is presented as a joke to mask that I'm telling you the truth.

Oh, I'm well aware of this.

this to me is a response of a Te polr type to a situation in which i am demanding the use of Te from her. all of the ideas herein seem very typical sentiments of IEIs. the "non-intellectual" perception comes from a determined reticence to share her ideas, for fear of making a mistake and being criticized for it.

How is this Te? It seems much more related to super-ego Ti, in contrast to dee and other Fe-ego types that have no qualms about publicly announcing (and thus opening to criticism) their ridiculous opinions.

[aestrivex]

How is this Te? It seems much more related to super-ego Ti, in contrast to dee and other Fe-ego types that have no qualms about publicly announcing (and thus opening to criticism) their ridiculous opinions.

it manifests in different people in different ways, as well as differently in SEIs due to the minimal influence of Ni and the hesitation that it would likely bring to the situation.

in dee's case he responds to his internal confusion by trying to outwardly prove to everybody that he knows what he's talking about. or something along those lines.

there exist ample examples of Fi types (diana, minde, liveandletlive, anndelise, tereg, potentially discojoe if ESI, potentially rick although in his case things are somewhat different) who have no problems sharing their opinions on such matters (although some have more staunch opinions than others).

[strrrng]

This yet again betrays your weak Ti - the fact that people disagree has no bearing on their individual level of certainty.

Also, I would attribute your utter inability to identify the most essential aspects of your personality to weak Ne.

lol...I would attribute this post to your stupidity

[Exodus]

it manifests in different people in different ways, as well as differently in SEIs due to the minimal influence of Ni and the hesitation that it would likely bring to the situation.

in dee's case he responds to his internal confusion by trying to outwardly prove to everybody that he knows what he's talking about. or something along those lines.

there exist ample examples of Fi types (diana, minde, liveandletlive, anndelise, tereg, potentially discojoe if ESI, potentially rick although in his case things are somewhat different) who have no problems sharing their opinions on such matters (although some have more staunch opinions than others).

ok, good point. But "even after thinking really hard about something for a long time, I'm still not sure" still sounds more Ti super-ego than super-id. Ti super-id is more like "I have all these equally plausible theories buzzing around in my head and can't decide between them" (though sometimes Ne ego) or, on the more unhealthy side, "I am absolutely right and nobody else can tell me otherwise".

[Lotus]

.

[aestrivex]

as far as i'm concerned the use of enneagram traits to explain away inconsistencies or problematic observations with socionics theory is remarkably poor practice. perhaps the enneagram or other things might be used to explain various differences, but all of the points about IEI remain and are, i believe, fundamentally good observations.


the following is an extremely important point, hence why it was originally bolded:

how many ILEs can identify with a "reticence to share their ideas?"

Side note: When I'm on medication I lose significant interest in outward stimulation and my entire focus is on seeking mental stimulation. Before taking Vyvanse I wasn't interested in spending as much time on the internet as I do now.

this is potentially a more important point than all of the rest of the medication blather, which as far as i can see does more to suggest that ILE is an inappropriate fit than IEI.

on the other hand, if your medications mean that my observations are null and void, then i have no way to evaluate you at all; i'm not sure it's entirely reasonable to play that game either. it's not as though you're completely mentally unstable.

and fwiw i was maintaining that you were either not ILE or something indeterminate throughout the entire ordeal.

[strrrng]

enneagram refers to traits and fixations that exist in reality. to reject it as a scapegoat is to ignore what it actually describes. socionics describes cognitive patterns. why people try to equate functions with behavioral traits, I don't know.

[Exodus]

Allie, I've written more about your type here. Any thoughts?

[Exodus]

enneagram refers to traits and fixations that exist in reality. to reject it as a scapegoat is to ignore what it actually describes.

Saying that someone does X because they are enneagram type Y is fine, but that still can't be used to dismiss contradictions with a socionic typing, and it certainly has no bearing on someone's grasp of socionics.

socionics describes cognitive patterns. why people try to equate functions with behavioral traits, I don't know.

Because human behavior (where behavior is the entirety of all your externally observable actions and statements) is a direct result of cognitive structure. If behavior, in this sense, is unrelated to socionic type, then we all better start working on reading people's minds if we're going to type anyone.

[Suomea]

...

[aestrivex]

In what context are you referring to this?

in short -- in the context of not talking about socionics as a result of being weary of other people shooting down her interpretations.

[Lotus]

.

[Exodus]

Why would I even bother with these outward emotional expressions if I didn't value and appreciate external emotional communication from people?

I'm not sure what you mean.

This yet again betrays your weak Ti - asking "Why does everyone have such difficulty typing me?" does not mean I think people disagreeing on my type is the same as everyone has difficulty typing me. I asked it because of the fact that it is common for me to hear from people that they have no idea what my type is, that it's always been a mystery to them, that I don't seem like any particular type, or that they have considered almost all types for me. You have no idea how much I hear from people that they have/had difficulty typing me.

Hotel, I would attribute your utter inability to identify the most essential aspects of my statements and questions to weak Ne too.

ok, my bad.

In the end, other people's opinions on your type don't matter - you just have to figure it out yourself. In particular, you might want to consider what you need from other people.

These three posts, consecutively in the thread because I had exceeded post limits:
1, 2, 3

And BTW, I'm showing these because you asked for when people have pointed out my Ti use, not because I'm trying to prove it is.

Alright. IME the idea of "not having preconceived opinions" about new things is a common manifestation of subdued Ti.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Are you really as vague as you say you are though? A lot of people I know are kinda... vague/flighty/wishy washy about a whole bunch of things but as for their base PERSONALITY - well people kinda act how they act; to me it doesn't really change much...even when people say it does. What's that saying... only thing in life is certain is death & taxes; socionics isn't part of that lol.

I can kinda relate. I've been told I was both domineering and "too shy" before and it's confusing. I just think the lesson here is don't let anybody else define you so if you say you are vague/all over the place I guess I have no choice but to believe you. I guess though, I just want to challenge you on that.

Hmm. I need to visit some of these stickam chats...

Anyway, I like you Allie. =)

[Lotus]

.

[strrrng]

And talking about violent love is something Betas do, such as Nick.

better fuckin believe it!

[Exodus]

How the fuck is "violent love" and "<2" an and concept???? First of all, they are jokes. And second of all, writing "<2" instead of "<3" is something that Alpha types do, such as Bionicgoat and Bee. And talking about violent love is something Betas do, such as Nick.
And why am I even bothering to point that out? "<2" and "violent love" are not type-related!!!!

The violent love poll results (as well as the erotic attitudes) say otherwise. Of course other people talk about these concepts, but they are most often associated with your personality, and you are the one who originated the concepts, right? It has to do with the more general idea that a type's ego functions are its area of creativity.

You're arguing based on your misinterpretations. Again.

I said I was never sure about ILE. Why? Because I don't relate to it fully.

I value Fe. I never said that was the reason I'm not sure about ILE. I'm aware they value Fe. I was already not sure about ILE. However, valuing Fe is one the reasons I said I was considering any Alpha/Beta type.

When I asked you why you were not sure about ILE, this is what you told me. Forgive me if I misinterpreted that.

Do you know for a fact that I have an emotional attachment to what I said? You don't.

??? You honestly don't take seriously what you said in those threads? They sounded pretty serious to me.

Emphasizing love as an important role in marriage is an argument I used to support Gay Marriage. It doesn't make me ESI. Other types can appreciate the concept of "love" in a marriage too.

You're oversimplifying what I said. Of course most people believe that love is important, but the reasons you gave for believing it were more specifically ESI. Type is about how, not just what you think.

And unambiguous? The entire argument I made was about moral ambiguity.

"Unambiguous" was not in reference to that discussion. I was referring to the numerous times you've said "I really like/dislike X." ILEs are not likely to be comfortable expressing such sentiments point-blank.

I don't interject any spontaneity and humor in my communication?

You do, but I wouldn't say it's very...dynamic.

[Ezra]

lol @ allie's sig