That is not how I'd describe it at all. I can't decide which of the non-Delta quadras has the worst description, but at least you're not fascist theocratic Klingons or whatever.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya
The Workaholic Gamma Quadrant
That is not how I'd describe it at all. I can't decide which of the non-Delta quadras has the worst description, but at least you're not fascist theocratic Klingons or whatever.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya
Last edited by Pallas; 10-07-2016 at 11:04 AM.
Why do so many people dislike Strati? I agree the writing style is kinda pushy but what specifically is wrong about it?
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
I actually like her style, just a bit negative but over all quite informative
they dislike her yellow-paper style socionics textsOriginally Posted by totalize
Got no major negative criticism for her, actually. The style keeps me on my toes, there is passion.
These threads remind me of the kiddies on the MBTI forums bitching about "stereotypes." I'll never understand the Fe-valuer's fetish for letting supposed stupidity "speak for itself" instead of just explaining what it is that you take issue to. It's arrogant, condescending, and shows exactly how few fucks you really give about factual accuracy. You're not concerned about what's right, you're concerned about who's right.
Also we all know Socionics itself is just a hypothesis that science will never verify. For all their flaws, at least these descriptions are giving us hypotheses in the positive that we can build upon. You have a problem with these theories? Then be scientific about it. Falsify them or fuck off.
Just because something sounds retarded doesn't mean it is. We used to think it was retarded to say the Earth orbited the Sun, because we saw the Sun moving in the sky and not the other way around. Unless you prefer to live in the dark ages.
I liked your post but I actually agree with Alioth, if you disagree with something it's informative to know why.
But what do I know I'm just an Alpha Chatterbox yada yada yada.
Warm Regards,
Clowns & Entropy
I just think these articles sound funny and it's fun to discuss them. As to falsifying things, I'm working on that right now with some other people. Well, primarily, I'm trying to prove hypothesis that I think are true, but that would make these false by necessity.
Every opportunity to meme is well worth taking.
What if you spent months of research compiling info for a paper like that, then your detractors just laughed in your face and stomped the essay into the dust instead of critiquing it on its own terms? You have to admit that's pretty unfair. Any masterpiece such as that mentioned in the OP deserves a far higher quality of criticism than smug kneejerk rejection. Especially if the detractor is so lacking in perspective that he interprets a subjective description literally.anyways—i can see Alioth's point, although i wouldn't have worded it quite so harshly. it's not that big of a deal to me honestly, it's a casual discussion we're having here. if someone was presenting a formal thesis, then yes, i can understand being frustrated. also, poor delivery (or "sounding retarded") is a valid criticism, i think.
The funny thing is that I've had this issue with EIEs before. I describe a trend or a tendency. They assume I'm describing a literal phenomenon that always happens the exact same way. They say I'm grossly exaggerating and use these exaggerations as a basis for a string of ad-hominems. I get angry. I leave looking like the idiot, even though I actually understood what was going on, rather than assuming that every idea that seems ridiculous on the surface is in itself impossible.
Still don't see where you're getting Ti/Fe from, but I suppose that's a question for elsewhere.i'm sensing a quadra value conflict here, especially if Alioth is Alpha, too.
just my obviously superior humble Delta opinion, though.
OK, I'll be more careful with my delivery next time so I don't accidentally cause whatever I've caused here. I just wanted to show people and possibly spark discussion over something I found entertaining, not give an analysis of every point I disagreed with in the articles. Probably the clearest evidence against these articles is if you look at famous people who have been given types in each of the quadras (e.g. Einstein in Alpha, Goethe in Beta), but maybe not everyone has already done that.
I didn't mean to imply that you personally went about every situation that way, only that you seemed to be in this case.
Sorry for apparently destroying your thread, because I noticed you felt the need to mention me now instead of replying to me earlier even though I've seen your profile status as "active" throughout the day.
I recall reading that quasiidenticals can't appreciate each other's writings. If Stratiy was indeed IEE, that would hit the nail on the head for this scenario.I don't think these are masterpieces because they're generally so far removed from my observations of reality that I have no idea where he got these from, and then the writing style just seems sort of bad.
I noticed the Deltan description covered more of the desires and motivations of people within this quadra (which can come off as a portrayal of members of this quadra if not interpreted carefully, a mistake I believe was made) while the Beta article focused more on behaviors and social structure. I'd agree with @hag's opinion that the Delta description was meant to describe what Deltans want and see in themselves rather than what they actually are -- which is going to come off as conceited and offensive to members of other quadra no matter what.
There could've been any number of factual inaccuracies in the other descriptions, but they probably could've been avoided had they been written by their own members respectively, and had they described their motivations rather than dealing with behaviors or social structures.
Oh, earlier I was on mobile and didn't even see that you had posted the other thing. I think also that I've had this on in the background caused the green light to be on even if I wasn't actually actively doing anything.
Yeah I think the beta descriptions are the ones I have the hardest time reconciling or sympathising with. But I had just assumed it's cos I was scared ofand so didn't understand it.
I do feel like many Gamma people really dislike not being able to do something they want to do. And have a strong internal push to be competent at things. Am I wrong about this?
As an alpha I sometimes like the idea of knowing how stuff works and how to manipulate it, but I don't really have any drive for it. I do dislike when everyone is quiet or I'm in a discussion and I can't think of things to say.
Warm Regards,
Clowns & Entropy
Dead-on summary of my life.
Can't speak for other Gamma types though, but what I hypothesise is that the Gamma SFs are more about being able to do what they like while the NTs are the competence animals. Fi wants authentic fulfilment that matches one's values and Te needs the accuracy.
#justgammathings
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
Where are the photoshop wizards, we need memes of that!
I am officially #Impr€$$€d! The second version is really cool.i was feeling inspired
I think she's too literal with Ni (literally it's time management, which I think is short term), but her writing creates vivid and distinct images which are very helpful if you contemplate them and absolutely misleading if you take them at face value
Yes, that's the problem, there's such a high potential for people to take this at face value (see: astrology Sun signs, MBTI, Enneagram, etc.). It doesn't matter what she intended, it matters what people will read.
I totally forgot I had read that before I got to the part where she rips LIEs a new one
in instance of the quadra complexes: it isn't so much what was being described, but how it was described.
it makes alphas sound like spineless, emotionally volatile hooligans who don't know when to shut up. arrogant, big-mouthed morons who are unable to stand up for themselves unless they've got a whole army backing them up, and they won't shut the fuck up until everyone takes their side, including that dog over there in the corner. see: entitled 5 year old brat throwing a tantrum. i couldn't help but envision the evil hell-spawn of the real housewives of whatever and jersey shore when reading the profile.
betas sound like status-hungry, self-masturbatory sociopathic cavepeople who hold weekly virgin sacrifices to soothe their ginormous broken egos and to stealthily draw attention away from their complete and utter lack of real character and accomplishments. mindless drones who talk about doing everything but in reality they do nothing... except talk. a shining exemplar of the i-bought-an-expensive-car-to-compensate-for-my-small-dick prototype. projection, anyone?
deltas sound like self-absorbed, emotionally manipulative loners who run around in la-la land pushing everyone's buttons, erroneously hypocritical insofar that they incessantly whine and cry if you even attempt to do the same to them. status-seeking control freaks searching for victims to dictate and boss around, all the while being a slave to their insatiable desire for recognition for... well, nothing. when meeting a delta, make sure to list your accomplishments before stating your name.
gammas sound like self-serving, cheese-chasing, antisocial robots who are prepared to beat the living shit out of anyone, for anything, at the drop of a dime. neurotic workhorses seething with feelings of hatred and vengeance. nobody actually likes them but they keep 'em around anyway to do all their dirty work. NTs manipulate the living fuck out of their SF counterparts until they become sad, empty shelves of their former selves, so not only do other quadras dislike them, they dislike each other!
i'm not saying it was all wrong but it was woefully exaggerated. it didn't feel like a realistic depiction of each individual quadra's shortcomings, just a depressingly negative one. my skin was crawling by the end of it. does this alpha dynamic strike fear into you?
The ESI+LIE duality for example, sounds like it is written by someone who had a LIE child with ADD, as if the ESI has to be some sort of mother to the naughty child, while duality is not like that at all, they complete eachother, not one sided. She had a story as an example in mind and in the description was basically justifying that story. I saw many times sentences like : "if LIE does this bad thing, ESI will leave and never look back". "mending relations will be impossible" as if ESI is constantly sulking for some reason. My EII sister also has a poor understanding of ESI nature and duality, maybe stratiyevskaya is EII
I read the title as the Workaholic Gamma Quartet, but moving on:
"4) to freely and resolutely demonstrate pragmatic initiatives coming from one's own base of observations, one's own personal and professional experience, and reasoning founded common sense, and at one's own discretion"
this checks out imho, and by contrast Alpha trumps as it sits in a position of conceptualizing without the need to understand from experience;
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