Wow I'm out of my league!

[Teddybeanz]

Ok, I have learned about the 16 types (moderately) because as a college professor we have seminars about how each type learns the best and how to modify our own teaching skills to accomodate each one. But I have no idea what the triangles, squares, circles, ExIx, Ni (or whatever) stuff is!? Should I just drop out now and save myself the embarassment and you all the hassle? LoL
I joined this site (and found it) because I'm heartbroken over an ISTP that I dont quite understand as my ESTJ self....but he's terribly intriguing and we compliment and contrast each other so well. But he's hung up on the 'familiar' ex-wife who only showed back up because he was telling everyone how he was blissfully happy with me...figures.
So I'm terribly lonely, basically single and living in a new small town where it seems I have nothing in common with anyone. *sigh
Is it in my personality for guys to find me 'intimidating'? I dont see it but every guy i meet has said that lately. Maybe if i learn about my own type and some more info about the others, I can find someone to share come common interests with. So whats the best type for my ESTJ self? My 'T' is almost 50-50 so once i have scored ESFJ (but only once).
Oh and Hello everyone! ;-)
Teddybeanz

[Jarno]

I'll try to help a bit.

First of all, wether you are ESTJ or ESFJ.

A big difference is that ESFJ women tend to be somewhat submissive (although bitchy at times :-) The ESTJ women are bossy. You are probably ESTJ since you've been told to be intimidating, which is a common theme for ESTJ's I guess.

Secondly:

It's not strange that you like an ISTP. Since you have a mirror relationship then. The relationship is vocal, meaning lots of talking, drawn out dialogs. When one partner says something, the other partner can easely add something to the discussion. Like what one partner says is never really complete and needs an extra comment. Disputes also happen.
http://www.the16types.info/relations-4.php

Another remark:
Your best fit would be an INFJ. It's your dual, and you will only know why it's a great relationship when you've experienced it. Reading type description is of little use.

BTW what do you teach? (just curious)

Oh and the squares etc are shortcuts for the underlying functions. Which differ from MBTI because MBTI is buggy in that area.

[munenori2]

You'll figure things out if you stick around long enough. Very simple answer though, if you are an estj in socionics the theory says you would dualize or match best with an infj. If esfj, then intj.

I wouldn't worry about it much, just ask questions and what not. Also, that sucks on the relationship front.

[Mediator Kam]

yes, don't give up. I stuck around until I understood it, and then it's like ok i'm hooked now.

It took 4 months, but i'm slow.

[Teddybeanz]

I'll try to help a bit.

A big difference is that ESFJ women tend to be somewhat submissive (although bitchy at times :-) The ESTJ women are bossy. You are probably ESTJ since you've been told to be intimidating, which is a common theme for ESTJ's I guess.


Another remark:
Your best fit would be an INFJ. It's your dual, and you will only know why it's a great relationship when you've experienced it. Reading type description is of little use.

BTW what do you teach? (just curious)

Oh and the squares etc are shortcuts for the underlying functions. Which differ from MBTI because MBTI is buggy in that area.

Well, I can be bitchy...what woman cant if we are telling the truth? LoL But in the 'right' situation what woman cant show a little submission too? hehe But i guess i digress... Anyway, I teach Radiologic Imaging Sciences.
So how do i know an INFJ and where to find one???
Teddybeanz

[Satan]

Ok, I have learned about the 16 types (moderately) because as a college professor we have seminars about how each type learns the best and how to modify our own teaching skills to accomodate each one. But I have no idea what the triangles, squares, circles, ExIx, Ni (or whatever) stuff is!? Should I just drop out now and save myself the embarassment and you all the hassle? LoL
I joined this site (and found it) because I'm heartbroken over an ISTP that I dont quite understand as my ESTJ self....but he's terribly intriguing and we compliment and contrast each other so well. But he's hung up on the 'familiar' ex-wife who only showed back up because he was telling everyone how he was blissfully happy with me...figures.
So I'm terribly lonely, basically single and living in a new small town where it seems I have nothing in common with anyone. *sigh
Is it in my personality for guys to find me 'intimidating'? I dont see it but every guy i meet has said that lately. Maybe if i learn about my own type and some more info about the others, I can find someone to share come common interests with. So whats the best type for my ESTJ self? My 'T' is almost 50-50 so once i have scored ESFJ (but only once).
Oh and Hello everyone! ;-)
Teddybeanz

if people don't connect with enough other people they can seem scary.

just meet way more people until you're settled.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

First, are you a socionics LSE (ESTj) or a MBTI ESTJ? The two can be really different.

[Jarno]

So how do i know an INFJ and where to find one???
Teddybeanz

INFJ women are almost without exception shy, or at least not the center of attention. They have a soft voice and controlled emotions. Perfectionists. They deeply care about others. And usually show more concern about your problems then you yourself do.

They usually work in the health care sector, or something with psychology, pharmacy etc.

General description: http://www.the16types.info/types.php?typename=INFJ

[Teddybeanz]

First, are you a socionics LSE (ESTj) or a MBTI ESTJ? The two can be really different.

Its the MBTI ESTJ... I have no clue on Socionics if you are saying it would be/may be different. Maybe I should find out.
Teddybeanz

[Teddybeanz]

INFJ women are almost without exception shy, or at least not the center of attention. They have a soft voice and controlled emotions. Perfectionists. They deeply care about others. And usually show more concern about your problems then you yourself do.

They usually work in the health care sector, or something with psychology, pharmacy etc.

General description: http://www.the16types.info/types.php?typename=INFJ

Well thats all well and good but i need an INFJ guy! Not that there's anything wrong with girl/girl relationships but been there, done that...hehe
Teddybeanz

[Jarno]

First, are you a socionics LSE (ESTj) or a MBTI ESTJ? The two can be really different.

What are the differences?

[Jarno]

Well thats all well and good but i need an INFJ guy! Not that there's anything wrong with girl/girl relationships but been there, done that...hehe
Teddybeanz

Haha, uhhh oke yes. Don't mind me I'm fuzzy in my head.

Oke for the males.

They are often drawn to professions like psychiatrist, lawyer, or anything to help the 'poor' people (people in need for help/support). They are idealistic.

They also have a soft slow voice and show lots of concern for your problems. They are always interested in people, their friends etc. They like small groups of people or 1 on 1 conversation. Dutyful and probably perfectionistic. The general description also applies to them.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

What are the differences?

The MBTI description of the ESTJ, from what I remember of it, is very wide and general. There are people from every quadra that could fit into it (SLE, LSI, EIE, SEE, ESI, LIE, LSE, ESE, SEI, perhaps some SLI). I will reread it now and get back to you.

[Jarno]

The MBTI description of the ESTJ, from what I remember of it, is very wide and general. There are people from every quadra that could fit into it (SLE, LSI, EIE, SEE, ESI, LIE, LSE, ESE, SEI, perhaps some SLI). I will reread it now and get back to you.

Yes there are many mbti versions on the net. But I can assure you they are the same.
MBTI is per definition somewhat less accurate then Socionics since they know shit about functions. Which makes it confusing for socionist point of view who usually tries to pinpoint certain values in descriptions.

[munenori2]

Oke for the males.

They are often drawn to professions like psychiatrist, lawyer, or anything to help the 'poor' people (people in need for help/support). They are idealistic.

They also have a soft slow voice and show lots of concern for your problems. They are always interested in people, their friends etc. They like small groups of people or 1 on 1 conversation. Dutyful and probably perfectionistic. The general description also applies to them.

And sometimes they work in warehouses performing physical labor. Idealistically.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

They are often drawn to professions like psychiatrist, lawyer, or anything to help the 'poor' people (people in need for help/support). They are idealistic.

They also have a soft voice and show lots of concern for your problems. They are always interested in people, their friends etc. They like small groups of people or 1 on 1 conversation. The general description also applies to them.

Not necessarily. My EII father is a carpenter and has had no temptations, as far as I can tell, to help out anyone other than his immediate set of acquaintances. The way you describe them does not differentiate them from certain varieties of IEI.

[Jarno]

Not necessarily. My EII father is a carpenter and has had no temptations, as far as I can tell, to help out anyone other than his immediate set of acquaintances. The way you describe them does not differentiate them from certain varieties of IEI.

Yes it's impossible to make a clear picture of a type in just a few lines, but I'm glad I've narrowed it down to 2 types already :-)

I have to stereo type somewhat, because if I should name all the profession where you can find INFJ's, I would need to name EVERY profession there is, which is...not helpful at all. This is the best I can do, if you can improve, then ofcourse feel free to do so.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

Alright, I'm back.

Jarno - I was simply commenting that your explanation did not actually say anything. I can see it fit for more than 2 types, much more. And, no the LSE and the MBTI ESTJ are not the same thing.

http://keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=ke...2&c=supervisor
http://typelogic.com/estj.html

The site that I used to use apparently was shut down (not surprising as several articles were already missing from it), but I thought it had the best content as to how the MBTI actually looked at personality.

The above two links are among the most wide spread MBTI ESTJ descriptions. The first thing that anyone who knows socionics will notice is that the descriptions themselves greatly resemble LSIs (rules, organization, need to be in the lead, need to establish order, respect for those above you, subordination for those under you, objectivity, tradition, just to name a few). I will admit both descriptions can resemble a LSE, but the concept of the LSE is not at their core.

More accurately, there is no socionics type at the core of the MBTI ESTJ description, no correlation between them; from all the types that I earlier listed, all of them can still apply to this description or see themselves in this description (which is all the MBTI wants you to do and the farthest most people go with it). All the types that I listed to one extent or another care about their communities, want to be in charge, like "order" (as this could have different meanings for each type and/or individual reading), think through things "rationally" (same comment as for "order"), can be "conservative" as to how they approach others.

(Jarno - I remembered that you were the one that undoubtedly thinks MBTI links to socionics. As I do not want to digress this discussion, I do not intend to take this any further. Simply, I disagree that there is a correlation between MBTI types and socionics types. One cannot delegate socionics type straight from MBTI type.)

Teddy, the tradition on this forum is for new users to introduce themselves with a spiel about who they are and how they see the world. General life descriptions, a short biography, whatever you wish to reveal: just so that we can get a sense of you as a person (and proceed from there to dissect and shred all of your life experiences in a savage rage so that we can claim to know you better ).

Welcome to the forum!

[Wynch]

Well, I can be bitchy...what woman cant if we are telling the truth? LoL But in the 'right' situation what woman cant show a little submission too? hehe But i guess i digress... Anyway, I teach Radiologic Imaging Sciences.
So how do i know an INFJ and where to find one???
Teddybeanz

AMEN, sister! You are officially cool in my books. So, on the subject of your type:

A big difference is that ESFJ women tend to be somewhat submissive (although bitchy at times :-) The ESTJ women are bossy. You are probably ESTJ since you've been told to be intimidating, which is a common theme for ESTJ's I guess.

I disagree. I think it's a trait of ESXj everyone to be bossy and intimidating. Generally speaking they are master co-ordinators and event planners. I think the big difference is that ESFjs are looking to make everything run smoothly and harmoniously for the sake of the mood whereas ESTjs are looking to make everything run in a smooth process. The ESFj is looking to set a certain tone and the ESTj is looking to be most efficient.

And I definitely don't find ESFj women publically submissive. Quite the contrary.

And sometimes they work in warehouses performing physical labor. Idealistically.

This made me laugh so hard. Picture this: You're sitting in the back of the warehouse on a shipping crate, and your buddy is laying out on a row of them to the side. He's wringing his hands, telling you all his problems while you jot notes in a shipping form on a clipboard asking him how it makes him feel.

[Ms. Kensington]

Ok, I have learned about the 16 types (moderately) because as a college professor we have seminars about how each type learns the best and how to modify our own teaching skills to accomodate each one.

seems i come across this a lot these days. can you say more about how/what they teach you?

it's funny, because regarding socioncis, i said the exact same thing when i first came across this site years ago, that i didn't know what the shapes meant. i felt confident that this voodoo would remain a footnote in any personality theory understanding i had. there was a time that i couldnt get away from the damn thing, but i think that can be ok if you are looking to "practice" the theory or to work out a better understanding. anyway yeah even if you don't get it all the way or it takes however long to get a working understanding (not long for you i think), it could still be useful to you enough to stick around.

[crazedrat]

First, are you a socionics LSE (ESTj) or a MBTI ESTJ? The two can be really different.

Descriptions across the two fields are more similar for extraverts, and the tests are much more consistent for extraverts. Not really worth adding new confusion into things, since she acts like ESTj

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

Descriptions across the two fields are more similar for extraverts, and the tests are much more consistent for extraverts. Not really worth adding new confusion into things, since she acts like ESTj

Based on what do you make that last claim? At most, she wrote two paragraphs that mentioned any aspect of her life.

Based on what do you make this entire argument? Honestly, I've only seen Ganin make such a claim and he is absolutely wrong. The extrovert/introvert dichotomy is not equal. MBTI is based solely off dichotomies, which in the MBTI are subjective and are almost useless when you consider socionics. It is funny that you say MBTI tests are consistent for extraverts, since all the logical extraverts in my family would be MBTI introverts.

[Teddybeanz]

I took the socionics test and I am an ESFp but on MBTI i am an ESTJ. Interesting...
Teddybeanz

[Jarno]

I took the socionics test and I am an ESFp but on MBTI i am an ESTJ. Interesting...
Teddybeanz

hmm it's pretty uncertain which type you are then... At least the first two dichotomies seem to be probably right. ESxx

[crazedrat]

If you feel like Jarno and I are the answers to all your love lifes hopes and dreams, then you're probably ESFp. Somehow I doubt that, so I'm betting on ESTj. But the best way is really to go read the descriptions themselves and see which you identify with.
Descriptions of ESFp & ESTj:
http://the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9485
Descriptions of subtypes:
http://the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7322
Since it's written in russian, some of the words give off a bad context & vibe. So read it with a mind geared toward underlying meaning.
Also, do you identify with johnny cash? Like... alot?
lol

[crazedrat]

it is a waste of time to try and type her if she is not reading and attempting to type herself, which she isn't.

[Teddybeanz]

it is a waste of time to try and type her if she is not reading and attempting to type herself, which she isn't.

I was wondering who was watching my every move... so thats you? Oh must not be cuz then you'd know I actually even have a labeled folder here on my desk at work where i've been printing out stuff trying to learn about all this. I dont even think i've been here a week...geez I'm only taking 18 hours, writing my capstone and teaching college here too. Sorry I'm not a quick enough learner for ya. Ppffftttt
Teddybeanz

[crazedrat]

ok, well then what type description did you identify with? lol
this is already feeling like supervisor / supervisee relations.
..I don't think an ESFp is going to be one of those workaholic ladies..

[Brilliand]

it is a waste of time to try and type her if she is not reading and attempting to type herself, which she isn't.

I don't agree that that makes it a waste of time.

[crazedrat]

It would take forever to find out if we were correct. There is no use writing up a huge list of speculative thoughts when she can just go read a description and find out for herself. Which from what I've seen on another thread, that's what she has finally done; and bingo, the light went off in her head and she says.... "omg I am SEE! How can someone know so much about me?!" And now we have saved alot of time and energy..
It might of been those crappy russian descriptions which were confusing her.
Teddy: did you attempt to read the russian descriptions and find they made no sense?
...we need some better english native socionics descriptions.
Someone on this board should write some and post them. Not me though

[Jarno]

ok, well then what type description did you identify with? lol
this is already feeling like supervisor / supervisee relations.

rather a conflict relation :-d

which correlates with the general opinion that is being formed around her: ESFJ.

[calenwen]

...we need some better english native socionics descriptions.
Someone on this board should write some and post them. Not me though

Word.

[Teddybeanz]

It would take forever to find out if we were correct. There is no use writing up a huge list of speculative thoughts when she can just go read a description and find out for herself. Which from what I've seen on another thread, that's what she has finally done; and bingo, the light went off in her head and she says.... "omg I am SEE! How can someone know so much about me?!" And now we have saved alot of time and energy..
It might of been those crappy russian descriptions which were confusing her.
Teddy: did you attempt to read the russian descriptions and find they made no sense?
...we need some better english native socionics descriptions.
Someone on this board should write some and post them. Not me though

Yes I did try but like i've said i have so much going on in my life that its hard to devote alot of time to any one thing. If it was up to me I would sit and play all day...lol But I do enough of that i guess. Someone said they didnt see my type as a 'workaholic'...well i'm not but when work is not as confrontational as home (getting a divorce) and Romeo is 400 miles away, just staying at the office doesnt mean i'm 'working'...hehe
To me, this is pretty deep stuff and I'm taking a look at it everyday. I just have to multitask sometimes so I dont get to really focus on it like i would like to. But reading that one description of SEE was almost like someone telling all my secrets. I think thats me. I didnt see much that wasnt completely in line...but i will read and investigate more as time permits.
Thanks for everyone's help so far.. I want ya'll to know I do appreciate it and I am having fun learning and reading about this. And in my life, fun has been in short supply for quite a while due to a horrible domestic situation. I'm finding ME again which is one reason for delving into this stuff. Hey would a SEE go get their tongue pierced today? hehe I did...

[crazedrat]

yeah they would, and really just that you had that light bulb moment suggests to me SEE is it. I have only ever had that with the INTp descriptions I've read.
Also, there are intertype relations descriptions. So you can probably type your ex husband and if you do it accurately the relations descriptions will describe some of the ways inwhich your marriage sucked.
that is another thing we need is better intertype relations descriptions

[Teddybeanz]

Hey, so 'duality' means sort of like what personality type would best match yours for harmony, right? Well isnt mine and yours matching, Crazedrat? hehe

[crazedrat]

lol.. yeah, that's why i am trying to gather information on you.
duality is interesting... there are different kinds of duals, really. not all duals are destined for eachother

[Teddybeanz]

lol.. yeah, that's why i am trying to gather information on you.
duality is interesting... there are different kinds of duals, really. not all duals are destined for eachother

Well I *did* say 'harmony' and not 'destiny'...hehe But gather away... hell PM me and just ask. The "E" in me will just tell ya whatever ya wanna know...LoL Oh but then we have that whole "I" which is you that might not be comfortable enough asking (sound right?) lol Hmm... I still say just send me a message (aim yahoo whatever...lol)

[crazedrat]

oh, ok... lol. by gather information i just kind of meant observe, but i guess i could pm you if i really need to. it would be interesting to talk to a SEE. you guys live in a different world then INTps, although it is strange you are a college professor.. i wonder which subtype you are...
there are subtype descriptions as well, have you seen them?
ok well if you really want to talk then just pm me your aim name or whatever

[Teddybeanz]

PM'd you... i'll tell you how I got to be a college professor if thats absolutely what most interests you...LoL How funny...hehe