Intuition, anxiety, and hallucinations

[BlackholeRoad]

I've related pronounced anxiety to intuition (mostly Ne) as well as naturally being prone to hallucinations. Just wanted to check my thinking with this here socionics forum community. If that correlation is accurate, how would the anxieties of the diffferent lead intuitives (or the types with intuition in the ego block) manifest typically? If that correlation isn't entirely accurate, what are some other causative factors within socionics that contribute to anxiety as a consistent problem? And with hallucinations?

[xerx]

I've related pronounced anxiety to intuition (mostly Ne) as well as naturally being prone to hallucinations. Just wanted to check my thinking with this here socionics forum community. If that correlation is accurate, how would the anxieties of the diffferent lead intuitives (or the types with intuition in the ego block) manifest typically? If that correlation isn't entirely accurate, what are some other causative factors within socionics that contribute to anxiety as a consistent problem? And with hallucinations?

What kinds of hallucinations?

[BlackholeRoad]

What kinds of hallucinations?

Dunno what kind, I was thinking the whole lot. Sights, sounds, general mental images and senses visualized or projected as hallucinations. Perhaps I need to narrow my criteria in relation to intuition? Given the correlation exists.

[Esaman]

Given the correlation exists.

Don't think so. Can't say that intuition ever produced anything that could be confused with sense perception for me.

[BlackholeRoad]

Just no. No. Bad! *gets the newspaper*

Well, I was just kinda going off of this part from Jung's psychological types, the last part of his exerpt about Extraverted Intuition (or at least the extreme of it);

He rids himself of the restrictions of reason, only to fall a victim to unconscious neurotic compulsions in the form of oversubtle, negative reasoning, hair-splitting dialectics, and a compulsive tie to the sensation of the object. His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior—he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type—only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation.

I mean, that kinda said what I said, right? Seeing what isn't there, feeling what isn't accessible to objective sensation, hence "absurd bodily sensation". It'd seem I need to rethink my interpretation?

And was that newspaper bit because of my profile pic?

[BlackholeRoad]

Don't think so. Can't say that intuition ever produced anything that could be confused with sense perception for me.

What if it were driven to the point of neurosis? I'm sure the adverse imbalances of any function would be unfamiliar to someone who was well-balanced in that area, right? Or maybe intuition has to work in concert with some other specific qualities/problems/whatever to act that way.

Disclaimer; I'm gonna play around with the possibilities in relation to my preconceived notion of this topic until I felt they've all been shot down, not trying to be douchey or anything.

[BlackholeRoad]

Wait. Whoa. Okay really rereading it, probably gonna be answering my own questions. Jeeze why did I post a topic about this. I guess the keyword phrase preconceived notion flavored the text a certain way for me.

[chriscorey]

I don’t think intuition and anxiety are much related? I could be wrong. I know different people have different levels of anxiety and for different reasons… I dunno.

I just start:


I never hallucinate.. I wander off in my imagination sometimes... Ni people are in their head a lot.

[BlackholeRoad]

I don’t think intuition and anxiety are much related? I could be wrong. I know different people have different levels of anxiety and for different reasons… I dunno.

I just start:


I never hallucinate.. I wander off in my imagination sometimes... Ni people are in their head a lot.

That makes sense with Ni, I just thought that if that imagination were to get to an extreme it'd be projected outward, in a hallucination. Especially with other psychological problems involved, such as how Jung described how, for example an LII or EII, the subjective when severely imbalanced or troubled, will manifest through the creative function. Kinda like his story on that business owner (that I believe was SEE) that got too invested in his work and it wore him out, and his Fi manifested in his work through a radical creative twist to his work over time that ended up sinking his business. So say, for my own type, there existed an imbalance in Fi that expressed itself through Ne in my whole hallucination idea? Or something unexpressed in an LII's Ti that came out that way as well? Just eliminating the possibilites before I set this one down, to be sure.

Quoted for the fuck-it-all cat gif, it's marvelous :k

[BlackholeRoad]

That makes sense with Ni, I just thought that if that imagination were to get to an extreme it'd be projected outward, in a hallucination. Especially with other psychological problems involved, such as how Jung described how, for example an LII or EII, the subjective when severely imbalanced or troubled, will manifest through the creative function. Kinda like his story on that business owner (that I believe was SEE) that got too invested in his work and it wore him out, and his Fi manifested in his work through a radical creative twist to his work over time that ended up sinking his business. So say, for my own type, there existed an imbalance in Fi that expressed itself through Ne in my whole hallucination idea? Or something unexpressed in an LII's Ti that came out that way as well? Just eliminating the possibilites before I set this one down, to be sure.

Quoted for the fuck-it-all cat gif, it's marvelous :k

Gahhh again I did it again you were talking about anxiety that's right. Okay, with anxiety and Ne, I've been thinking of one form of anxiety being an overload of Ne perceptions. Swamped by possibilities, notions of peoples' motivations, what could go wrong, and just too many ideas at once. That sort of thing. That's the link I have in my head about the two things, and if it's uncontrolled you've got a crazy amount of what-ifs fucking with you all at once.

[FDG]

I don't think so, because you can easily argued the opposite (as did Jung in his description of Se and Si types), namely that lack of conscious intuition leads to uncoscious manifestations such as superstition or excessive anxiety.

[Beautiful sky]

I don’t think intuition and anxiety are much related? I could be wrong. I know different people have different levels of anxiety and for different reasons… I dunno.

I just start:

I never hallucinate.. I wander off in my imagination sometimes... Ni people are in their head a lot.

I AGREE that they are not related; my LSI brother in law has more anxiety then my ILI mother, who is often saying things like "don't worry about it honey life is short; don't worry about every little thing." My brother in law is so sweet but he's a worry bug when it comes to his health, the financial condition of the future...etc. He just worries a lot and the doctor has offered him anxiety meds.

[chriscorey]

I AGREE that they are not related; my LSI brother in law has more anxiety then my ILI mother, who is often saying things like "don't worry about it honey life is short; don't worry about every little thing." My brother in law is so sweet but he's a worry bug when it comes to his health, the financial condition of the future...etc. He just worries a lot and the doctor has offered him anxiety meds.

Heh. I’m not a worrier either and I give similar advice. If I start acting like the cat gif it’s because too much shit is being thrown at me. I have to take a look at every part, throw it in a pile, and then start all over from scratch. I don’t worry, not without good reason.

[Radio]

Jung spent a large portion of his life studying psychotics, schizophrenics, or otherwise people severely mentally unstable to the point of being crippled. Trying to forer your way into his descriptions is, above all, a technical faux-pas as even if sort-of feels familiar, it probably isn't supposed to apply to you in the first place.

Also Jung was a quack and ego psychology now is completely archaic.

[krieger]

I don't think so, because you can easily argued the opposite (as did Jung in his description of Se and Si types), namely that lack of conscious intuition leads to uncoscious manifestations such as superstition or excessive anxiety.

this is how socionics works as a misdirective rhetorical strategy.

you can at any point take a negative feature of a "function" and instead associate it with weakness in that function, thus yielding the diametrically opposite verdict as to the strength-wise implications of possessing said function.

example: you can both argue that excessive literalness and anal-retentive behavior is typical of excessively strong logic to the exclusive of other functions, and that it is typical of weakness of logic since the applied "logic" is not properly tempered by experience.

likewise with positive features.

this guarantees that no matter which ex-ante subjective intuitive prejudice you hold about this or that person based on interpersonal sympathies and antipathies, it can always be lent justification through the theory.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I very highly doubt that any one IM element is linked to hallucinations; that sounds more like a problem within the brain (wiring or chemical influence) than anything else. As for anxiety... *shrugs* I type ESI, and I have bad anxiety of the "analysis paralysis", "don't want to move because I'll screw something up" variety. I also score high on Neuroticism, incidentally.

[Absurd]

Jung spent a large portion of his life studying psychotics, schizophrenics, or otherwise people severely mentally unstable to the point of being crippled.

Yup, in a nutshell - clinical patients.

[BlackholeRoad]

Okay so I'm totally wrong haha. Good to have clarified, thanks everyone. Seems I need to be careful about what I take from Jung's original theory too.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

What helped me is just remembering that shame and embarrassment is only a feeling , and it passes through you. It ends. You get emo/shameful/embarrassed about something, and the feeling doesn't define you. It's just a feeling- and it's only horrible if you're feeling it often.

Sadly, the same is true about good feelings as well though. Romantic love feeling obviously doesn't last. You get that rush... then you have to start looking at things more practical-like.

In and out in and out, like breaths or tidal waves... the mystical watery nature of feeeeeelings.

[Radio]

Okay so I'm totally wrong haha. Good to have clarified, thanks everyone. Seems I need to be careful about what I take from Jung's original theory too.

you're not totally wrong, it's just this forum as whole is going through a post-socionics phase. most people who were super into typology before have grown out of the obsession and now you're more likely to encounter responses that enumerate reasons for why it is bullshit. so u kno.

[FDG]

this is how socionics works as a misdirective rhetorical strategy.

you can at any point take a negative feature of a "function" and instead associate it with weakness in that function, thus yielding the diametrically opposite verdict as to the strength-wise implications of possessing said function.

example: you can both argue that excessive literalness and anal-retentive behavior is typical of excessively strong logic to the exclusive of other functions, and that it is typical of weakness of logic since the applied "logic" is not properly tempered by experience.

likewise with positive features.

this guarantees that no matter which ex-ante subjective intuitive prejudice you hold about this or that person based on interpersonal sympathies and antipathies, it can always be lent justification through the theory.

Yeah, you have a good point. I didn't mean to use it that way, but it's indeed possible to go for it with a malicious intent.

[Aquagraph]

… not trying to be a dick, but you should probably go see a doctor if you're having hallucinations.

I'm not sure whether that's even very effective most of the time. I might rather take hallucinations than antipsychotic drugs.

[Aquagraph]

Well, likewise.

I think I'm being more critical of this as a socionics thread.

Yeah, it occurred to me when I first read the title. At least this doesn't seem to be one of those relationship problem threads where the OP wants to use socionics as an outlet.

[BlackholeRoad]

Yeah, it occurred to me when I first read the title. At least this doesn't seem to be one of those relationship problem threads where the OP wants to use socionics as an outlet.

Eh, only hallucinated twice in my life and I'm sure it had to do with sleep paralysis. Anxiety's a bit more prominent with me, but it's nothing I can't manage. I was just curious as to how socionics would relate to those things, for general understanding and for future reference. Do remember (as said later on after the original post), this thread was inspired by Jung's psychological types article, which always related the extremities of the function to a neurosis. But if that's wrong and it's not that simple, then I gain from this thread either way by illuminating potential falsehood in what I've been reading. I'm sure this comes off as a self-help thread, and to that I say that if someone's under the impression that socionics can explain the typical behavior of someone as well as the atypical and adverse aspects, then any bit of information could help with any problem of mine that was is or could be and can be used likewise for others, but I didn't intend to exhibit my immediate problems (those of which anxiety and hallucinations aren't at the forefront). Just clarifying that. Or being defensive that too.

[SyrupDeGem]

Actually i can see a correlation with anxiety when Ne spins out of control... looking for answers... not finding them...moving on looking for more, becoming absorbed in itself. Ricocheting off the walls with no clear aim in sight.

I think the sensor anxiety will be more stable... a gentle constant, escalating at time of uncertainty too, but different uncertainty... assosciated more with completing things on time and in a linear and formatted manner. To speak generally.

[Kim]

Actually i can see a correlation with anxiety when Ne spins out of control... looking for answers... not finding them...moving on looking for more, becoming absorbed in itself. Ricocheting off the walls with no clear aim in sight.
.

And becoming obsessed with all the negative scenarios?

[Beautiful sky]

And becoming obsessed with all the negative scenarios?

huh? how does that work? what do you mean?

[SyrupDeGem]

And becoming obsessed with all the negative scenarios?

Sure...and planning to death how you would survive in such circumstances. From how you will deal with it emotionally, to how many natural crisis can you plan for. I have a boat, spacesuit,gasmask, panic room, bunker (water tight), all sorts of foods and water and eco systems in case i have to start life over. Tangent.

EDit: When originally i was just thinking about how i could finish this horrid horrid paperwork that is the bain of my life!

[Destroypuppy]

We are talking about seeing Se with our Ni.
I think that imagining and interacting with a virtual world is related to our Ni, and the world we create is in our head but we can't really see it, or hear or feel it.
But using Ni at the same time as Se is kinda impossible (or not easy or recommended), maybe people that focus too much on Ni make it so focus that they can also use Se at the same time and see what they are imaginating, but I think it's a waste of time (ignoring Ni).

Some people believe in astra projection and such but nothing as ever been moved or seen for the first time with the help of astra projection. Its all Ni, no Se.
It's all in their heads.

I also think that believing in ghost is a trait of "taking Ni too seriously."

So yeah, hallucinations that you can hear or see are your Ni mixing with your Se weirdly.. I believe.

(I think the types that believe the most in paranormal things are "Ni in superego" types. They will defend their point of view with examples and norm statements about not knowing, and that anything is possible. Funny to watch.)

[bolong]

We are talking about seeing Se with our Ni.
I think that imagining and interacting with a virtual world is related to our Ni, and the world we create is in our head but we can't really see it, or hear or feel it.
But using Ni at the same time as Se is kinda impossible (or not easy or recommended), maybe people that focus too much on Ni make it so focus that they can also use Se at the same time and see what they are imaginating, but I think it's a waste of time (ignoring Ni).

Some people believe in astra projection and such but nothing as ever been moved or seen for the first time with the help of astra projection. Its all Ni, no Se.
It's all in their heads.

I also think that believing in ghost is a trait of "taking Ni too seriously."

So yeah, hallucinations that you can hear or see are your Ni mixing with your Se weirdly.. I believe.

(I think the types that believe the most in paranormal things are "Ni in superego" types. They will defend their point of view with examples and norm statements about not knowing, and that anything is possible. Funny to watch.)

...what?