V.I. Me

[MensSuperMateriam]

Hello forum, long time no write.

Inspired by @Sandoval's V.I threads, I've decided to post some pictures. I will try to use a set of contexts as broad as possible, although the collection I have about myself for choosing is quite limited.



Here they are (until I delete them):

Young me:
003.jpg

With my best friend:
IMG_20160327_115041.jpg

Group:
a1046be8-1470-41e8-a125-5aade7e2c9ea.jpg

Bearded:
2016-02-28 10.44.58.jpg

Neutral-serious:
2016-04-29 16.12.27.jpg

Neutral-happy:
2016-03-29 17.53.41.jpg

Donald Trump mode:
2016-04-29 16.28.38.jpg

Kind guy mode:
2016-04-29 16.29.54.jpg



I was a bit reticent about posting the next one but... whatever. Clowny mode (only with closests friends):
2016-04-27 14.07.46.jpg



Opinions?
@Sandoval, @Contra, @darya, @Pa3s, @Aylen...

This one would be a long shot. But if you're still here, @aisa.

[Anglas]

You kinda look like Vinnie Jones

[Contra]

LII i think still works. Reminds me of a few Ive seen and know.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

simon cowell situationnnn

[Aylen]

I still think LII, as well.

[Sol]

without video it's not serious

whatever. Clowny mode (only with closests friends)

it's Clooney mode

[Beautiful sky]

ISTp or ESTj

[Sandoval]

simon cowell situationnnn

Hehe, yes! Very similar looks.

But more seriously...

I see your mouth generally has the absence of emotional energy (deadpan) present in high logic types. Yet you appear to have the emotional tension of Fi when you put on a smile. So visually you appear to be a rational Fi/Te user. Your eyes appear quite Si/Ne in their relaxation (absence of tension around the eyes, a weighted scowl)

I couldn't offer an exact opinion without video, but just from still images you resemble a rather introverted TeSi or SiTe (Simon Cowell is TeSi but he's a tad more assertive than you look). The TeSi/SiTe look, below for comparison.

That's about as much as I could say.

[darya]

Strictly by VI I'd say Te ego + sensor - SLI was my first thought.

[blank]

Strictly by VI I'd say Te ego + sensor - SLI was my first thought.

Agreed, SLI-Te is my first impression.

[ashlesha]

LII

[maniac]

SLI

[flames]

Delta ST

Last pic looks just like an ESTj I knew.

[niffer]

Is it u?




http://esocionika.com/socionics-type/SLI/The%20Artisan/

compare to "bearded" pic

SLI-Te IMO as well

[MensSuperMateriam]

So for now, it seems the only options presented are LII and SLI, the last one being the most common choice for pure V.I. purposes, whereas LII has been picked by those to whom I've intreacted with in a deeper level.

Although I tend to be skeptical about Reinin, I find interesting that both of these are Result types (we can still pick an observable behavioral aspect and decide if a particular person is more inclined to behave in one way or its opposite). Most ILIs (but not all of them) I'm confident about their types tend to manifest quite visible Process characteristics, which is something I do not identify with even in those moments when all things considered I've seen myself as ILI.

Nobody has picked the other Te ego + Result type apparently, which is LIE. I'm quite far form having the usual assertivity this type usually manifests (definitely not E8, and almost certainly, I'm not an E7). But what about an E6 LIE? Does nobody think this could be a potential option? (both V.I, wise and for those who already knew me, and have read my former type me thread, etc). I mention this becase I've also read the quadra complexes articles and although I was surprised how much i have in common with the clipped wings case of deltas (for example, with their style of gaining strength by making alliances with those they trust and share common goals), I think the tied hands situation gammas experience suits me the best. By the way, my Fi is is much closer to gamma style than delta, I'm extremely unforgiving for those who have (seriously) wronged me, among other things (also described in the gamma complex). I also think that the closed mouth complex of alpha quadra is the least fitting for me.

As a curiosity, some of you have pointed the "Simon Cowell" similarity (Aisa was the first one to mention this, long time ago), but the image that comes to my mind when I look to the suited picture where I'm smiling in a natural, unforced, way (and to a lesser degree, also the serious one), is Kevin Spacey.

Outside the V.I. domain, some of you already know which ones are the problems I have with the SLI option. For not repeating myself too much, whoever is interested can follow the discussion here:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...iends-compared

I concur that if I'm a sensor, SLI is by far the best option. But I'm too detached from the outside world for this. If this is the case, there has to be another aspect of myself that could justify this. By being an E5, for example. So I could be intuitive+E5, or only intuitive, or only E5, but I have to be at least one of these. The absence of both aspects cannot accurately describe my mental and behavioral dimensions.

Thanks to everyone for participating, by the way.

P.S. Does nobody think I could V.I. as ILI? The leading funcion is not so "externally visible" (Gulenko's V.I. method), so it is compatible with the supposed absence of "Ni eyes", so to speak.

[niffer]

I think that there's a huge misconception about the idea of sensors and having to feel an attachment with the outside world. Having both Si- and Ti at 4D creates a great recipe for mental as well as active bodily detachment. Since learning about typology, I assumed that I was an intuitive type for 8 years due to this stereotype.

[Myst]

Is it u?




http://esocionika.com/socionics-type/SLI/The%20Artisan/

compare to "bearded" pic

SLI-Te IMO as well

Lol that looks like my LII friend. And no, he is not SLI, he's blatant Se PoLR.

[Myst]

So for now, it seems the only options presented are LII and SLI, the last one being the most common choice for pure V.I. purposes, whereas LII has been picked by those to whom I've intreacted with in a deeper level.

Yes see VI is worthless, why do you give a fuck?

PS: if it's not clear to anyone why it's worthless - clearly the deeper interactions give a load more weight to your typing than a few fucking photos. lol.

[Saberstorm]

This is what we are seeing: 1) No smile.2) Straight Shot of the Face. 3) Few pictures have other people in them.4) Eyes are not animated.

This implies 1) introversion 2) logic, and 3) more introversion and 4) Judicious over Decisive (who have "active" - or "crazy" eyes)

that equals either LII or SLI. They are not noticing "result."

the preference for SLI is likely to total absence of activity in the eyes (implying that you have a strong introverted perceiving function that is not linked to decisive.) That would be strong Si - thus the SLI.

I do not use VI. I am just mentioning that they are pegging you as SLI for the appearance of no real animation, no energy, no extroversion, no ethics, no Se.

[Myst]

Nobody has picked the other Te ego + Result type apparently, which is LIE. I'm quite far form having the usual assertivity this type usually manifests (definitely not E8, and almost certainly, I'm not an E7). But what about an E6 LIE? Does nobody think this could be a potential option?

I'll disregard VI if you don't mind. This post of yours does sound pretty Te, idk beyond that, but if E6 LIE-Te seems to fit, try it on and see. (Since you don't seem the Ni subtype for sure)

[MensSuperMateriam]

Yes see VI is worthless, why do you give a fuck?

It is always interesting and curious to see how others perceive yourself, the impression they have when they see you.

I'll disregard VI if you don't mind. This post of yours does sound pretty Te, idk beyond that, but if E6 LIE-Te seems to fit, try it on and see. (Since you don't seem the Ni subtype for sure)

I do not mind. I do not put my "faith" in V.I. above more trustable ways of typing people, although it could provide some clues (just as that, clues).

I mention the LIE combo because... my biggest problem with the LII typing is the so called "alpha values". I definitely do not identify with them, roughly understood as life goals and ways of behaving and interacting. And to a lesser degree, usual opinions about topics, although this itself is not part of these "values" as different causes (mental processes) could lead to the same conclusion. See the "quadra complexes" I mentioned, for example. Closed mouth? Nah. I'm not a Richard Dawkings who needs to preach the truth to the masses. I do not care whatever bullshit people could believe as long as it does not affect me, and I do not have problems with social etiquettes. Tied hands? Definitely. I feel extreme frustration when I see better ways of doing things (usually meaning more efficient) but I lack the power/resources for applying what I perceive as the optimum solution.

LIE+E6 would be a sort of "softened LIE" much less assertive and full of "insercurities" (so to speak), which could easily be misunderstood as introvert (similar case happens for ILE+E6). Just considering the option, not categorically affirming I am.

I'm definitley too impatient for being a Ni-sub if gamma NT (much more if ILI). I have no problem considering long terms implications and planning in such way, but the slow pace that usually the developing processes take tends to burn me badly (and sometimes I end sabotaging my own previous efforts). What I envision I want it now. ILIs lack this problem (punctuality is not their main preoccupation, definitely), and to a lesser degree, also Ni-LIEs.

[MensSuperMateriam]

This is what we are seeing: 1) No smile.2) Straight Shot of the Face. 3) Few pictures have other people in them.4) Eyes are not animated.

This implies 1) introversion 2) logic, and 3) more introversion and 4) Judicious over Decisive (who have "active" - or "crazy" eyes)

that equals either LII or SLI. They are not noticing "result."

the preference for SLI is likely to total absence of activity in the eyes (implying that you have a strong introverted perceiving function that is not linked to decisive.) That would be strong Si - thus the SLI.

I do not use VI. I am just mentioning that they are pegging you as SLI for the appearance of no real animation, no energy, no extroversion, no ethics, no Se.

Technically I did not affirm that others are seeing the Result aspect in myself, I just pointed out that the two chosen types happen to be Result and continued after this.

[MensSuperMateriam]

I think that there's a huge misconception about the idea of sensors and having to feel an attachment with the outside world. Having both Si- and Ti at 4D creates a great recipe for mental as well as active bodily detachment. Since learning about typology, I assumed that I was an intuitive type for 8 years due to this stereotype.

I see your point, and I agree with you, but only in part. Ti and Si are both introverted functions, but they're also external (external static of fields, external dynamic of fields, if I recall correctly). So they're related to the outside world even if they do not "touch it" directly, so to speak. An internal funcion (as both Ns are) helps a lot when dealing with abstract concepts (helps, statistically, not implying that intuitors are "superior" or anything like that) due to thir extra layer of detachment.

Considering the other 4D Ti+Si case (LSI), I've found representatives of this type (particular cases, not everyone of course) that just refuse to think in terms of abstracts, like these things are directly worthless. I've never found an intuitive with such attitude.

Although I acknowledge to you that when they do not adopt this attitude, they're not bad at it, particularly in Maths (fixed abstracts?). Maybe their problem is more dealing with shades of grey and its related uncertainty (Ne PoLR?) than abstracts per se (concepts more "fluid" than Maths are a bigger problem for them).

[Myst]

It is always interesting and curious to see how others perceive yourself, the impression they have when they see you.

Yes but when it comes to VI you don't know what kinds of different patterns different people have in their mind that spit out three letters as a result. So to me it's often meaningless.

I mention the LIE combo because... my biggest problem with the LII typing is the so called "alpha values". I definitely do not identify with them, roughly understood as life goals and ways of behaving and interacting. And to a lesser degree, usual opinions about topics, although this itself is not part of these "values" as different causes (mental processes) could lead to the same conclusion. See the "quadra complexes" I mentioned, for example. Closed mouth? Nah. I'm not a Richard Dawkings who needs to preach the truth to the masses. I do not care whatever bullshit people could believe as long as it does not affect me, and I do not have problems with social etiquettes. Tied hands? Definitely. I feel extreme frustration when I see better ways of doing things (usually meaning more efficient) but I lack the power/resources for applying what I perceive as the optimum solution.

LIE+E6 would be a sort of "softened LIE" much less assertive and full of "insercurities" (so to speak), which could easily be misunderstood as introvert (similar case happens for ILE+E6). Just considering the option, not categorically affirming I am.

I'm definitley too impatient for being a Ni-sub if gamma NT (much more if ILI). I have no problem considering long terms implications and planning in such way, but the slow pace that usually the developing processes take tends to burn me badly (and sometimes I end sabotaging my own previous efforts). What I envision I want it now. ILIs lack this problem (punctuality is not their main preoccupation, definitely), and to a lesser degree, also Ni-LIEs.

That makes sense for LIE-Te.

I see your point, and I agree with you, but only in part. Ti and Si are both introverted functions, but they're also external (external static of fields, external dynamic of fields, if I recall correctly). So they're related to the outside world even if they do not "touch it" directly, so to speak. An internal funcion (as both Ns are) helps a lot when dealing with abstract concepts (helps, statistically, not implying that intuitors are "superior" or anything like that) due to thir extra layer of detachment.

Yeah, I relate to the outside world pretty well as TiSi. I don't like to have the extra layer of detachment too often that I do associate with N.

Considering the other 4D Ti+Si case (LSI), I've found representatives of this type (particular cases, not everyone of course) that just refuse to think in terms of abstracts, like these things are directly worthless. I've never found an intuitive with such attitude.

Yes, Ti is a curious case without Intuition (I don't entirely refuse it btw)

Although I acknowledge to you that when they do not adopt this attitude, they're not bad at it, particularly in Maths (fixed abstracts?). Maybe their problem is more dealing with shades of grey and its related uncertainty (Ne PoLR?) than abstracts per se (concepts more "fluid" than Maths are a bigger problem for them).

For me the problem is abstracts per se being too vague. (Though I think this applies to Ne much more than Ni, but that can be a bit too much too after a while.) The issue of shades of grey is separate from that. What do you mean by "fixed abstracts" for maths?

[Adam Strange]

Hi, guy.
I assume you wrote some stuff somewhere, answering 80 questions and stuff, but I will admit, I didn't read it, so take this next stuff with a grain of salt.

Just from your pictures, I do think you are LIE-Te. You don't look too much like I do (another LIE-Te), but you do have a kind of a look that I had when I was going through a very, very frustrating period in my life. I had put on weight and was uniformly unhappy with my inability to resolve my marriage issues and my life was going nowhere and my work was unsatisfying and I didn't know where to turn for answers blah blah blah etc etc etc.

My reason for saying that you are LIE-Te is based on my amateur efforts at VI. I've been looking at pics of LIE's, and I know several in real life, and there is a progression in the face when moving from Te to Ni.
I'm not posting a pic of myself (although a couple people have seen pics), but an SEI woman I work with said I look like the villain in Skyfall.
https://www.google.com/search?q=vill...w=1018&bih=949
My hair is not blonde, but is a light shade like his, but my face is square, nose straight. Not as large a jaw as his, and my features are a bit finer, but that is the general impression of an LIE-Te.
Next in progression from Te to Ni is you, an LIE-Te or LIE-Neutral, maybe. But I'm leaning towards a LIE-Te, who might be bummed with his life right now.
Next is Narc, an LIE-Ni.
Next is the lead singer (maybe LIE-2NI) in the band Renegades (where the keyboard player is totally ESI. You can tell they're buds.)

Just my opinion. Advice is often worth what you pay for it.

- Adam "His logic goes from start to finish without having been anywhere in between" Strange

[MensSuperMateriam]

What do you mean by "fixed abstracts" for maths?

Math concepts, once defined, have a fixed meaning which will not depend on a variable context or any external "particularization". They are "inmutable" (at least until they're corrected, expanded, etc, following the improvement in knowledge as the discipline develops). So it would make sense they will be quite appealing for the static conceptualizator Ti is.

[MensSuperMateriam]

Hi, guy.
I assume you wrote some stuff somewhere, answering 80 questions and stuff, but I will admit, I didn't read it, so take this next stuff with a grain of salt.

Hello Adam. My participation is this forum was turning to zero during the time you joined, so it makes sense you've not read much of mine (add to this I had quit and rejoined before).

Just from your pictures, I do think you are LIE-Te. You don't look too much like I do (another LIE-Te), but you do have a kind of a look that I had when I was going through a very, very frustrating period in my life. I had put on weight and was uniformly unhappy with my inability to resolve my marriage issues and my life was going nowhere and my work was unsatisfying and I didn't know where to turn for answers blah blah blah etc etc etc.

That is a very interesting observation. I've spent a lot of years with my self-esteem basically crushed due to multiple personal factors. It's actually improving as my conditions are getting better (I've also recently lost a lot of weight, by the way).

For example, this is a picture I (purposely) asked my friend to take after a common pal's wedding. Does this look enough LIE?

IMG_20160515_025445.jpg

(the picture was taken on purpose as a joke).

My reason for saying that you are LIE-Te is based on my amateur efforts at VI. I've been looking at pics of LIE's, and I know several in real life, and there is a progression in the face when moving from Te to Ni.
I'm not posting a pic of myself (although a couple people have seen pics), but an SEI woman I work with said I look like the villain in Skyfall.
https://www.google.com/search?q=vill...w=1018&bih=949
My hair is not blonde, but is a light shade like his, but my face is square, nose straight. Not as large a jaw as his, and my features are a bit finer, but that is the general impression of an LIE-Te.

LOL. No surprise your conflictor would see you as a villain.

As a curiosity, I tend to prefer villains in movies. Not because they're "evil", but because I tend to think they're much more interesting as characters, on average. They've a vision (their vision, specifically), they've resources, and they've the will. The good guy usually simply does what it's expected of him (a "slave", sort of).

Next in progression from Te to Ni is you, an LIE-Te or LIE-Neutral, maybe. But I'm leaning towards a LIE-Te, who might be bummed with his life right now.
Next is Narc, an LIE-Ni.
Next is the lead singer (maybe LIE-2NI) in the band Renegades (where the keyboard player is totally ESI. You can tell they're buds.)

I've seen pictures of Narc. I agree he V.I.s as the typical Ni-LIE. His look is quite similar to Contra's, by the way (ILI or Ni-LIE in his case).

Just my opinion. Advice is often worth what you pay for it.

Yeah. Thanks.

[darya]

You don't look too much like I do (another LIE-Te), but you do have a kind of a look that I had when I was going through a very, very frustrating period in my life. I had put on weight and was uniformly unhappy with my inability to resolve my marriage issues and my life was going nowhere and my work was unsatisfying and I didn't know where to turn for answers blah blah blah etc etc etc.

Lmao. Don't ever lose your patronizing ways, Adam.

[MensSuperMateriam]

I've never interacted with you but I think you VI pretty LII. I think that some people just don't know how to VI.

If you're Polikujm (or similar nickname) that's not exactly true.

I think a lot of these descriptions are nonsense. You have to base your typings on experiences with the general thought processes of individuals irl.

I define vs as Jung would, and as how I'd differentiate between any introverted and extroverted function. The former () is based on attuning to the subjective thought experience of oneself, and seeing others, taking into consideration as well their methods and conclusions with an amount of respect and curiosity, but keeping with ones' own with a kind of immersive humility for thinking, Subjective Thinking, while the latter () is Objective Thinking and is based on the expectation that everyone rises above to awareness to grasp the overall same collective comprehension and picture of reality, which objective conclusion is always the end goal, instead of the process and experience itself.

and are essentially two different, conflicting reasoning philosophies. is more the attuning to any given deeper thought process and experience, usually one's own, while is the overall stance and standard of collective objectivity one upkeeps.

I get your point but I disagree in your approach. Without entering in discussing the accuracy or not of your definitions, you're treating functions like isolated entities that basically exist per se. Quadra values (and similar generalist approaches) makes sense (at least statistically) as a cognitive and behavoral aspects that emerge from the "wholeness" of all of these "functions" combined.

And don't forget that you cannot observe the cognitive processes themselves, only their "products", and different causes can lead to the same consequence.

I'm not saying you're not right (or that you're), only that it's not so simple.

[darya]

Seriously, what is Simon Cowell's type? I have him as LIE, not LSE. The problem is that while you, @MensSuperMateriam, do look similar to him, Cowell exudes much more (extroverted) energy in his pics...

[Adam Strange]

Lmao. Don't ever lose your patronizing ways, Adam.

Hi, Darya.
Thanks. I don't plan to.

Actually, I would if I could, since I actually don't want to be patronizing, but I just seem to be completely blind to my "patronizing" ways. Other forum members have said I am, so I believe it is probably true, but I just don't see it. Maybe it's part of a mental illness. Or maybe I'm just naturally an asshole. IDK.

Interestingly enough, the OP himself seemed to have no problem with my tone, and agreed with the content.

That is a very interesting observation. I've spent a lot of years with my self-esteem basically crushed due to multiple personal factors. It's actually improving as my conditions are getting better (I've also recently lost a lot of weight, by the way).

For example, this is a picture I (purposely) asked my friend to take after a common pal's wedding. Does this look enough LIE?

IMG_20160515_025445.jpg

(the picture was taken on purpose as a joke).

[Adam Strange]

LOL. No surprise your conflictor would see you as a villain.

As a curiosity, I tend to prefer villains in movies. Not because they're "evil", but because I tend to think they're much more interesting as characters, on average. They've a vision (their vision, specifically), they've resources, and they've the will. The good guy usually simply does what it's expected of him (a "slave", sort of).

This is another reason I consider you to be LIE. LIE's enjoy stories about strong (vision, resources, will) characters trying to outwit other strong characters. The way that society brands the protagonists as hero or villain is irrelevant to the protagonist's actions.

Personally, I believe this "ignoring of society's moral codes" is a characteristic of LIE's, and is why we are so scarce in societies which need to be normally stable but which occasionally need an out-of-the-box solution, and why the mother types (SEI) and dutiful worker types (SLI) are so common. Well, you can't please everyone.

[MensSuperMateriam]

Seriously, what is Simon Cowell's type? I have him as LIE, not LSE. The problem is that while you, @MensSuperMateriam, do look similar to him, Cowell exudes much more (extroverted) energy in his pics...

In the case we share the same sociotype, one potential cause would be enneagram. I do not belong to the assertive tryad, this guy apparently does.

[nondescript]

I think that there's a huge misconception about the idea of sensors and having to feel an attachment with the outside world. Having both Si- and Ti at 4D creates a great recipe for mental as well as active bodily detachment. Since learning about typology, I assumed that I was an intuitive type for 8 years due to this stereotype.

Correct. It is the extraverts who have that wondrous connection to the outside world in which they oft go to the lengths of surrendering themselves to the object. One of the best examples would be Martin Luther. He went so far to give up to outer sensorial experiences that he had an outing with a church(as you know, he got the anathema{the bucket / boot}).

Sensorics is merely valuing things before meanings / names of things. Or as a smart person once said, "Universalia post rem". Quite basic, yeah.

edit: that face shape reminds me of Jeremy Clarkson lol. Maybe you could find something there? It isn't like I put much faith into VI, but who knows...

[Myst]

I've never interacted with you but I think you VI pretty LII. I think that some people just don't know how to VI.

Lol please show me the VI manual then. That you base this claim on.

The former () is based on attuning to the individual thought experience of oneself, and seeing others, taking into consideration too their methods and conclusions with an amount of respect and curiosity, but keeping with ones' own with a kind of immersive humility for thinking, Subjective Thinking. (...)

You're mixing in motivations that do not strictly belong to Ti as an information element/processing of information. And eh, adjectives like humility are subjective. The freedom thingy.. I don't particularly relate to that either, sounds like biased a bit towards Ne/Si valuing.

But it's hard to sum up these thinking processes in a couple short sentences without ambiguity in it.

[MensSuperMateriam]

Interestingly enough, the OP himself seemed to have no problem with my tone, and agreed with the content.

I just saw your comment as the useful exposition of a fact (information exchange). I did not perceive any kind of "comparative judgement" or any negative tone.

[Adam Strange]

I just saw your comment as the useful exposition of a fact (information exchange). I did not perceive any kind of "comparative judgement" or any negative tone.

None was meant. I intended only to share information.

You are definitely LIE.

Although, to be fair to everyone who thinks you are LII, I have seen LII's react with similar rationality to my comments. But LII's don't identify with villains in movies.

Glad to hear you are losing excess weight. It means the frustration is lessening, and the bonds are loosening on the "tied hands".

[flames]

None was meant. I intended only to share information.

You are definitely LIE.

Although, to be fair to everyone who thinks you are LII, I have seen LII's react with similar rationality to my comments. But LII's don't identify with villains in movies.

Glad to hear you are losing excess weight. It means the frustration is lessening, and the bonds are loosening on the "tied hands".

What are all the types you'd say would identity with movie villains?

[rougerogue]

What are all the types you'd say would identity with movie villains?

ILI LIE

[flames]

ILI LIE

Well shit, call me LIE. So you identify with movie villains?