Maslow hierarchy of needs

[mu4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%...archy_of_needs

There are many psychological studies which can be connected to socionic given some minor revision of the theory or idea. Maslow hiearchy of needs is one of them.

I look at maslow's hierarchy of need and if you remove self-actualization which is closely related to esteem, it can be explained mental function developed. The first 4 levels of the hierarchy correspond with the functional development that people go thru.

Our base function is the psychological foundation by which we engage the world. Having a sound body is very important to having a sound mind, thus having the proper physiological needs met is important.
Our creative function is the product we produce in order to acquire material and personal security.
Developing the role function is how we achieve love and belonging, by fulling a role in society and in various organizations or our personal lives, it's not something we are naturally confident in but we fulfill this role without ego and the overconfidence of the ego functions.
Developing the vulnerable function is esteem, where we finally overcome our fears and gain the respect and self-respect we need in order to be fully at peace with ourselves.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't believe socionics can be related to this. I think you are trying to make it too much into a positive thing.

I believe the functions are all rawly physiological (Yes, even Ni), and are hyper-competitive with each other depending on your specific orientation, the way bodies are in this planet. That's why I don't really believe in 'spirituality' or if I do it's very subtle. And that's why I can't in my head, correlate my functions in this fashion because to me they are just what make up my ego and my persona, and how I function with other physical stimuli on this world. And who I want to fuck, kill, love, compete and mate with.

I believe the functions explain the raw physical building blocks of matter that make up how our minds actually work and what we don't know yet. (the mind in its pure state is simply a vacuum that wants to absorb all information that it doesn't know yet) We just call everything we don't know and want to understand 'God' and 'spirituality' and 'personal needs' but those are just sugary pretty words to describe our own intense subjective biases and preferences.

I understand that most people don't want to go in the dark emo infp ****** shadows with me but come on. I think it's very manly if you try. The world just doesn't work like it does in his theory ...(i'm not saying we need to stop being nice to each other though =p)

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Also Ashton and I were talking once about how the pyramid is stupid because you can actually have your highest needs met, without having the basic needs met like they say. I mean reality is just sooo much more complicated than this pyramid chart, I don't even know where to begin.

If it's personally helping you ,then I'm glad. I mean all therapy is very subjective like that. I might be the only person in the world that didn't commit suicide because of a Fefe Dobson song I heard on the internet.

[mu4]

You're right that functional development is not always going to progress in a positive fashion. Maslow's hierarchy of needs was investigated by analyzing the successful life path of the top 1% healthiest population. So it is certainly about a path of positive development.

I think it gives a clear path for successful development of the ego/super-ego functions although this is certainly not always possible due to pathology, trauma and economic circumstances along with any other of the various things life throws at us.

Life is absolutely more complicated! I wish it wasn't.

It notes that sometimes people will go out of their way to fulfill roles higher up in the hierarchy before fulfilling lower roles which can result in other needs being unmet. So this is accounted for by the theory, and the consequences are noted.

[leckysupport]

The only use I've found for Maslow's hierarchy of needs is fictional character development.

[1981slater]

FMPOV, Maslow analysis fits what an ILE wants:

suggestive --> Food and shelter
role --> Protection from criminals/lions
hidden agenda --> to be loved
base --> playing around with unusual ideas
creative --> having success in your career

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Who decides who is healthy or not? What about Amy Winehouse? Very successful financially, a typical psychologist would say that there was nothing wrong with her because of how much money she made- and yet she kills herself via a drug overdose? Michael Jackson and a billion other examples of success and health that suddenly go to shit? How do you explain that?

How does one explain the opposite, somebody who is shitty and shoddy and everybody makes fun of but suddenly they just GET IT all at once, that they are worth it too, and then have a successful life from here on out??????

What if they were just plain lucky enough not to die? Most people only consider somebody successful if they are charming and extroverted enough.

I better stop. I'm disintegrating into 6 too much. =p I will just let Maslow have his little stupid theory even though I think it's gay.

[1981slater]

Who decides who is healthy or not?

Barney Gumble

[anndelise]

Something I wrote elsewhere in March:

Maslow's Hierarchy can be summarized into three basic needs: to Survive, to Connect, to Co-Evolve.

Survival includes physiological and safety needs. These needs are met by the environment and/or by our connections. Without a healthy environment to meet our needs, we can not survive. Without our connections, we would be too busy re-inventing the wheel of survival to ever move beyond survival.

Connecting includes affiliation and esteem needs. It also includes connecting with our environment. If we rely on a healthy environment to survive, it helps to remember that we are connected to that environment; that what we do to the environment will cycle back and influence our survival abilities.

Co-Evolve includes creative, cognitive, aesthetics, and actualization needs. These are the cultural and personal memes. We are influenced by the memes of past generations, as well as the memes developed in the present. This reduces our need to constantly re-invent the wheel of survival. We also co-evolve with our environment. Changes we (and others) make to the environment influence changes we have to make within ourselves.

We are not islands. If we want to reach our potential, as individuals and/or as a species, we have no choice but to work with each other, and/or with our environment.

[Jarno]

Maslov is about needs for your personality and socionics is about the tools of your personality.

Maslov is Fuel, Socionics is Engine, Personality is Car. Get it?

[mu4]

Who decides who is healthy or not? What about Amy Winehouse? Very successful financially, a typical psychologist would say that there was nothing wrong with her because of how much money she made- and yet she kills herself via a drug overdose? Michael Jackson and a billion other examples of success and health that suddenly go to shit? How do you explain that?

How does one explain the opposite, somebody who is shitty and shoddy and everybody makes fun of but suddenly they just GET IT all at once, that they are worth it too, and then have a successful life from here on out??????

What if they were just plain lucky enough not to die? Most people only consider somebody successful if they are charming and extroverted enough.

I better stop. I'm disintegrating into 6 too much. =p I will just let Maslow have his little stupid theory even though I think it's gay.

Maslow doesn't explain how people are individually, it describes the common traits of people who are viewed as healthy 1% as well as all the needs we have.

The fact that both Amy Winehouse and Michael Jackson are dead is a good sign they're not healthy.

I'm pretty sure neither of them were able to come to terms with themselves physiologically. Both were drug addicts and had major problems with body image.

It's entirely possible that not all type follow the hierarchy and that it is not a pyramid but a square broken into 4 sections that we need to fulfill.

[][]
[][]

For some types it might be something like this with different levels of the hierarchy represent by the different arrows...
[>][v]
[^][<]

Wait NM, that's socionics too.

[Reuben]

Maslow's Hierarchy is very applicable due to its generality as well as its theoretical consistency.

It is not possible for one to be interested in fulfilling his or her higher needs before fulfilling, at least partly, his or her lower needs.

B&D do give me a legit example to disprove that, and I will reconsider my opinion! (If you think it's gay then why don't you love it )

[DividedsGhost]

Survival includes physiological and safety needs. These needs are met by the environment and/or by our connections. Without a healthy environment to meet our needs, we can not survive. Without our connections, we would be too busy re-inventing the wheel of survival to ever move beyond survival.

that's a really interesting point because i don't think people realize this part is about being able to sustain your life or surviving. so skipping this step is theoretically impossible.

Connecting includes affiliation and esteem needs. It also includes connecting with our environment. If we rely on a healthy environment to survive, it helps to remember that we are connected to that environment; that what we do to the environment will cycle back and influence our survival abilities.

but let's not forget that to connect with others and our environment, we must also connect with ourselves! philosophy, i suppose.

Co-Evolve includes creative, cognitive, aesthetics, and actualization needs. These are the cultural and personal memes. We are influenced by the memes of past generations, as well as the memes developed in the present. This reduces our need to constantly re-invent the wheel of survival. We also co-evolve with our environment. Changes we (and others) make to the environment influence changes we have to make within ourselves.

is this kind of like a cognitive harmony? not really a peace, but enough that life becomes meaning and fulfilling? i wonder if it's really even necessary to reach this state by society's successful standards. i mean i can go out and let the rain fall on my face and feel, if even for a moment, a sense of this stage.

[anndelise]

but let's not forget that to connect with others and our environment, we must also connect with ourselves! philosophy, i suppose.

Yes, connecting (and co-evolving) would include intra-personal and inter-personal connecting.

Co-Evolve includes creative, cognitive, aesthetics, and actualization needs. These are the cultural and personal memes. We are influenced by the memes of past generations, as well as the memes developed in the present. This reduces our need to constantly re-invent the wheel of survival. We also co-evolve with our environment. Changes we (and others) make to the environment influence changes we have to make within ourselves.

is this kind of like a cognitive harmony? not really a peace, but enough that life becomes meaning and fulfilling? i wonder if it's really even necessary to reach this state by society's successful standards. i mean i can go out and let the rain fall on my face and feel, if even for a moment, a sense of this stage.

Cognitive harmony would probably fall under both intra-personal connecting and intra-personal evolving. Also consider the influences of environment on cognative harmony/dissonance.

I doubt that Society would even exist without the co-evolving.
If we didn't teach/learn from others, we'd be stuck in the survival stage, re-inventing how to survive. The fact that our offspring require years of being cared for by the adults shows how reliant our species is on both connecting and learning.

Co-evolving is a system of inter-influences. Don't think of it in terms of just genetics, though that would be included. Consider also the memes we pass on. These memes....or knowledge/ideas....evolves as we learn. Evolution doesn't always mean Improvement, though, heh.

[silke]

Something I wrote elsewhere in March:

Maslow's Hierarchy can be summarized into three basic needs: to Survive, to Connect, to Co-Evolve.

Survival includes physiological and safety needs. These needs are met by the environment and/or by our connections. Without a healthy environment to meet our needs, we can not survive. Without our connections, we would be too busy re-inventing the wheel of survival to ever move beyond survival.

Connecting includes affiliation and esteem needs. It also includes connecting with our environment. If we rely on a healthy environment to survive, it helps to remember that we are connected to that environment; that what we do to the environment will cycle back and influence our survival abilities.

Co-Evolve includes creative, cognitive, aesthetics, and actualization needs. These are the cultural and personal memes. We are influenced by the memes of past generations, as well as the memes developed in the present. This reduces our need to constantly re-invent the wheel of survival. We also co-evolve with our environment. Changes we (and others) make to the environment influence changes we have to make within ourselves.

We are not islands. If we want to reach our potential, as individuals and/or as a species, we have no choice but to work with each other, and/or with our environment.

hmm, does this have anything to do with the instinctual stackings? they look very similar to this:
sp - survival
sx - connecting
so - co-evolving i.e. connecting to the greater culture/society

[anndelise]

Siuntal,

Huh, I hadn't thought of that. Enneagram is one I've had a hard time grasping.
But it does seem like it might be a fit, doesn't it.

[Cat King Cole]

Interesting how that sorts the stackings into rankings.

Primary instinct: I will never be able to adequately meet my needs for survival/connection/co-evolution; so I'll take focus out of my inferior instinct and ignore it unless directly threatened.

[Nerosika]

Interesting how that sorts the stackings into rankings.

http://www.socionics.com/articles/thestrength.html

Speaking of rankings...

Duality (4+5)*(6+6) = 108
Super ego (3+5)*(6+6) = 96
Semi-dual (4+5)*(6+3) = 81
Illusionary (4+5)*(3+6) = 81
Comparative (3+5)*(3+6) = 72
Look-alike (3+5)*(6+3) = 72
Contrary (4+5)*(3+3) = 54
Identical (3+5)*(3+3) = 48
Activity (4+0)*(6+6) = 48
Conflicting (3+0)*(6+6) = 36
Benefit (4+0)*(6+3) = 36
Supervision (3+0)*(6+3) = 27
Quasi-identical (4+0)*(3+3) = 24
Mirror (3+0)*(3+3) = 18

[Beautiful sky]

FMPOV, Maslow analysis fits what an ILE wants:

suggestive --> Food and shelter
role --> Protection from criminals/lions
hidden agenda --> to be loved
base --> playing around with unusual ideas
creative --> having success in your career

Hee hee.