DCNH and physical disorders

[Tigerfadder]

D would relate to psychopath, C relate to ADHD, N relate to autism and H to bipolar. I do not see that these can cross much really?

[Chae]

Could D also be more cluster B?

[Hope]

N is more like OCD

[Stellafera]

D would relate to psychopath, C relate to ADHD, N relate to autism and H to bipolar. I do not see that these can cross much really?

I'm a D subtype with ADHD-PI.

I consider both ADHD and bipolar entirely type unrelated.

[The Reality Denialist]

Well, I'm scattered with lack of focus unable to do strict routine and seem to go trough depressive and higher mood episodes.

[Tigerfadder]

N is more like OCD

But isnt that related to autism in a way? ;p

[Tigerfadder]

I'm a D subtype with ADHD-PI.

I consider both ADHD and bipolar entirely type unrelated.

DCNH is a different kind of typing. Cool you are IEI and D. I have plans of learning about that type, the IEIs. IEIs D seem rare.

[Tigerfadder]

Well, I'm scattered with lack of focus unable to do strict routine and seem to go trough depressive and higher mood episodes.

Ya but bipolar is extreme mood swings. Hope you can deal with them, i think its a age thing the older one get the more order and stability comes with it and flatter mood swings.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Na, one is attempting to describe healthy variations of a type, the other is for illness diagnosis and treatment.

[Hope]

D ependency
C odependency
N eurosis
H istrionics

[Stellafera]

DCNH is a different kind of typing. Cool you are IEI and D. I have plans of learning about that type, the IEIs. IEIs D seem rare.

Might be, yeah. I always end up being the alpha IEI (in the non-Socionics meaning of alpha) whenever I interact with people of my own type.

I still don't see the connection. I think personality disorders have a chance to be type-related, but something like ADHD, not so much. It might be that Creative subtypes are more likely to lean into ADHD as a part of themselves. For me, it feels counter to the person I want to be and annoys me deeply.

[Tallmo]

maybe something like this

D - histrionic
C - adhd
N - autism
H - depression

[Bertrand]

I dunno about all this adhd and C associations since DCNH C is characterized by a kind of environmental ignoring intensive state of focus according to gulenko. adhd seems to be a problem with local lack of focus whereas C is the opposite, however it seems to be globally on its own path, i.e.: not in step with broader society, but not necessarily spastic either. if anything analogizing it to adhd is more a commentary on exactly the way in which society dismisses creativity in general, but it speaks more to society's ways of excluding that which it doesn't understand in the guise of what it thinks it understands already (disordered behavior). its more like C is a higher order, whereas adhd is a lack of order, and people regularly confuse the two. creativity is by definition something useful, which is what separates it from schizophrenia which is perception of novelty without usefulness. therefore I propose we associate C more with schizophrenia than adhd, if anything. perhaps the hyperactivity can be associated with the Se elements of adhd, on that point I'm not sure, but I think of adhd as actually antithetical to true creativity, because lack of focus dilutes creative possibilities whereas focus on novel perception to the point of formulation is what characterizes real creativity. hyper novel perception is the creative germ taken to the extreme, whereas adhd heads off in a different direction. in other words, schizophrenia is what lies on the extreme end of creativity, whereas adhd is more like off to the side, its a diversion from creativity

i think we associate the ignoring state of C subtype as somewhat adhd-like inasmuch as that individual is not "on task" but true adhd is the inability to focus on even the things that one really wants to. in other words, C may appear adhd in an environment they find uninteresting, but adhd is disordered precisely because adhd types can't find such an environment anywhere. schizophrenia is finding that environment everywhere. in this sense adhd is actually a complete lack of creativity and state of perpetual boredom not interest, its because the interest threshold is never met that they bounce around, which is why giving them amphetamines paradoxically focuses them

I feel like associating adhd with creativity is a 90s era feel good "self esteem" label they slapped on kids that actually weren't creative at all in order to redeem what was a natural shortcoming with artificial language, but is actually totally wrongheaded

in other words, creativity requires a kind of focus in order to articulate and transmit novel perception in a way that is understandable and useful to others. this is the opposite of adhd which can't even focus on non-novel perceptions. creativity is actually a hyper focused state, and the excess of creativity is being overwhelmed by novel perception and being unable to structure the underlying perception which is what schizophrenia is

[Stellafera]

true adhd is the inability to focus on even the things that one really wants to. in other words, C may appear adhd in an environment they find uninteresting, but adhd is disordered precisely because adhd types can't find such an environment anywhere

adhd is (...) a state of perpetual boredom not interest, its because the interest threshold is never met that they bounce around, which is why giving them amphetamines paradoxically focuses them

I feel like associating adhd with creativity is a 90s era feel good "self esteem" label they slapped on kids that actually weren't creative at all in order to redeem what was a shortcoming with artificial terms, but is actually totally wrongheaded

[Tallmo]

I have suspected that mediums, who let spirits speak through them, are often C subtypes. So that might fit with schitzophrenia. (i cant spell it right)

Would be an interesting research topic.

Seems to me that the expressivity of C subtype also lets them express the split psyche and unconscious complexes. (That we all have, but it gets expressed in C)

This goes for extreme cases. Many Cs are fairly normal most of the time

[Bertrand]

yes I totally think there's a link between schizophrenia, shamanism, creative personalities, and modern day prophets and artists. and it goes to the novelty of their perception but quickly can get out of hand and terminate in the chaos of schizophrenia. in a lot of ways they live in the future so what will eventually effect everyone they feel first and hopefully lay the groundwork so that when it hits the masses they're more prepared, hence shamans as primitive "guides" and "seers." those that can't handle it are overwhelmed and end up going insane and I think the general state of the tribe at present is a reflection on how well our guides have been doing in preparing the masses. technology likewise creates an uncertain future, essentially making those guide's jobs even harder, and this shows up in increased mental illness in the general population as the threshold to feel the pain is met easier and easier as pathos in the culture mounts, reaching less and less forward reaching minds until it infects everyone. outbreaks of mass hysteria are like that, you can see the cracks showing in mass shootings and civil unrest of all kinds. eventually the whole thing resets itself if it gets bad enough (apocalypse, which is what the seers "see" and fear). with nuclear weapons we may not even get a reset or it will be on the biological scale where it sets the planet back 3bn years instead of just a few hundred as with the fall of rome etc

[The Reality Denialist]

ADHD. Well, there are apparently so called creative individuals who consume ADHD meds in order to survive in environment that is not suited for them and gain some clear benefits from medications.

OK, so total lack of self discipline when it comes to uninteresting tasks. Those situations make me absolutely desperate.

[WinnieW]

OK, so total lack of self discipline when it comes to uninteresting tasks. Those situations make me absolutely desperate.

I am the same way. Fortunally, most lessons in school wasn't that boring for me.
If you want to torture me, tie my to an assembly line that force me to do the same simple task endlessly...

[Number 9 large]

Schizophrenia is the inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Its got nothing to do with creativity

[Pallas]

Schizophrenia is the inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Its got nothing to do with creativity

Yeah but "OMG crazy people!!!!!" is always a good clickbait topic so people always drone on about pointless things like "schizophrenia and creativity both involve fantasy, so obviously they're related!"

[Raver]

Maybe it is something like this (take with a grain of salt):

D - Cluster B
C - ADHD/Bi-Polar
N - Cluster C
H - Cluster A

[The Reality Denialist]

Schizoid, schizotypal and paranoid for harmonizing. Lol.
I'd say that N/H both have anxiety components but different.
D has some cluster B

H maybe avoidant could be included (social hypersensitivity) and bit of schizotypal as well. Not perfect match.
N OCPD some parts of dependant but not always

But schizoid and paranoid. One has no interest and other one is suspicious.

C loose cannon.

Clearest surface level traits in me are schizotypal and avoidant. I'm the guy with weird imagination, stories and smiles.

[Tigerfadder]

I liked the idea of including clusters.

* contact, initial, ignoring - creative subtype (C);

Since C is contact (contact/distance) I did not add ADD just ADHD. The initial means they start things but do not necessary finish them, and they are ignoring meaning they are not sensitive or actively paying attention to the environment in the way it changes, think state of the environment and vibe. Same with N, they are ignoring. Myself is connecting here (connecting/ignoring) I believe. Still considering the options.

[The Reality Denialist]

I think that creative subtype is actually more linked to bipolar than ADHD.

Aushra:
irrationals cyclothymic
rationals schizothymic

[Bertrand]

being creative increases risk of schizophrenia

[Tigerfadder]

being creative increases risk of schizophrenia

So an added schizophrenia to C and H axes?