Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Is activation caused by a deficit or surplus in the Mobilizing Function?

  1. #1

    Question Is activation caused by a deficit or surplus in the Mobilizing Function?

    I've seen sources describe the Sixth Function as a sort of fuel or raw material for the First Function, the more the Mobilizng IE is present in the environment the easier is to for the Lead function to perform. Other sources seems to suggest that lack of the mobilizing element in the environment triggers a response in the Lead function springing the person in to action. These two views seem to contradict each other, at least at face value.

    So, is it a lack or a surplus in the Mobilizing IE that activates the Base function?

  2. #2
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,935
    Mentioned
    699 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    No. activity is caused by commonality, common energy and relating on a similar level
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  3. #3
    &papu silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,077
    Mentioned
    456 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Some sources seem to be confused with their terminology.

    "Mobilizing" is the name of 4th function that is also known as "vulnerable" or "painful" (PoLR).
    "Activating" is the name of the 6th function.
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ure_of_Model_A

    The names of these functions are similar and some translations and sources seem to confuse and mix-up the two.

    Presence of 4th aka "painful" or "mobilizing" (POLR) function has a net deactivating effect.
    Presence of 6th aka "activating" function has a net activating effect.

    Mobilizing -> deactivation
    Activating -> activation

    Even then, this activating effect of 6th function seems to be mostly mental i.e. it triggers the base function but it's not like the person becomes more active in the conventional sense of this word.

    In the conventional meaning of activation, "becoming more active" is the effect on the D.S. function rather than Activating one in my experience. Your mirage has plenty of your activating aspect, yet they are slightly de-activating ("relations of growing laziness") and same applies to beneficiary - they inform you and don't particularly energize you despite having your activating as their lead. Subtypes also matter here. "Becoming more active" is of importance to the inert, leading function subtype, while contact subtypes need the opposite of this - to be slowed or calmed down.

  4. #4
    Haikus niffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE-H 8w9 SX
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    283 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Um... I think it's because of a surplus of the hidden agenda function being supplied mutually, plus a sense of same quadra understanding.

    Gulenko calls the hidden agenda function the "launcher" function in Model G, iirc. He views the hidden agenda information as what is needed in the environment for someone to "recharge" most instantly and directly.

    This effect of the "hidden agenda" over-energizing is part of why the person you receive benefit from in benefit relations gives you "benefit", and why it's named that. I mean think about it.

  5. #5
    Exodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,475
    Mentioned
    332 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMolotov View Post
    I've seen sources describe the Sixth Function as a sort of fuel or raw material for the First Function, the more the Mobilizng IE is present in the environment the easier is to for the Lead function to perform. Other sources seems to suggest that lack of the mobilizing element in the environment triggers a response in the Lead function springing the person in to action. These two views seem to contradict each other, at least at face value.

    So, is it a lack or a surplus in the Mobilizing IE that activates the Base function?
    I would say neither.

    My view is closer to Gulenko's in that the Mobilizing IME is something you need to feel good and be functioning properly, almost in a compulsive sense. The suggestive function is also something that you need to feel good and be functioning properly, but the difference is that you aren't aware of the need, and you don't try to manage it yourself. This aspect of the mobilizing function may have to do with the leading function (actually, it should in some way) but the way you describe it (source?) doesn't quite make sense to me.

    It seems to me that the mobilizing function somehow defines the intention of the leading function, or it is a side effect of the leading function. I explain this using the signed elements. For example, -Ti is about generalizing or simplifying information. This has the effect of "smoothing things out" which has to do with Si. But +Ti is about putting things in order which increases certainty and prevents bad things from happening (Ni). So maybe you could say that the mobilizing function IME is used to gauge whether we are fulfilling the leading function IME.

  6. #6
    Exodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,475
    Mentioned
    332 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Some sources seem to be confused with their terminology.

    "Mobilizing" is the name of 4th function that is also known as "vulnerable" or "painful" (PoLR).
    "Activating" is the name of the 6th function.
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ure_of_Model_A
    Do you have an original Russian source for this? I've never seen the 4th function called the mobilizing function.

  7. #7
    Haikus niffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE-H 8w9 SX
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    283 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    It seems to me that the mobilizing function somehow defines the intention of the leading function, or it is a side effect of the leading function. I explain this using the signed elements. For example, -Ti is about generalizing or simplifying information. This has the effect of "smoothing things out" which has to do with Si. But +Ti is about putting things in order which increases certainty and prevents bad things from happening (Ni). So maybe you could say that the mobilizing function IME is used to gauge whether we are fulfilling the leading function IME.
    Wow, great explanation. Very insightful.

    It's something I've been thinking about for a long time but never knew how to word it as astutely and clearly as this. Thank you.

  8. #8
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,935
    Mentioned
    699 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Um... I think it's because of a surplus of the hidden agenda function being supplied mutually, plus a sense of same quadra understanding.

    Gulenko calls the hidden agenda function the "launcher" function in Model G, iirc. He views the hidden agenda information as what is needed in the environment for someone to "recharge" most instantly and directly.

    This effect of the "hidden agenda" over-energizing is part of why the person you receive benefit from in benefit relations gives you "benefit", and why it's named that. I mean think about it.
    Yup

    Find out who is attractive to you in terms of commonality and energy. Check their type and chances are they are your activity relationship. Dual energy is different. It doesn't relate information on the activation function making it hard for people to understand why that person is their dual and why don't connect seamlessly as activity relations tend to and as conflict and also superego
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  9. #9
    &papu silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    5,077
    Mentioned
    456 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Do you have an original Russian source for this? I've never seen the 4th function called the mobilizing function.
    It's named that both in Russian Wikipedia and their analogy of Wikisocion. I was surprised that they decided to name the PoLR this way because it's rather confusing: Wikipedia & Wikiznanie.ru.

    If you do a google search for "соционика мобилизационая" it will show many other sources listing мобилизационая as the name of 4th polr function.

  10. #10
    A fox who wants to play, that's me PrettySavage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    TIM
    3w4-8w7-5w6
    Posts
    497
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I would say neither.

    My view is closer to Gulenko's in that the Mobilizing IME is something you need to feel good and be functioning properly, almost in a compulsive sense. The suggestive function is also something that you need to feel good and be functioning properly, but the difference is that you aren't aware of the need, and you don't try to manage it yourself. This aspect of the mobilizing function may have to do with the leading function (actually, it should in some way) but the way you describe it (source?) doesn't quite make sense to me.

    It seems to me that the mobilizing function somehow defines the intention of the leading function, or it is a side effect of the leading function. I explain this using the signed elements. For example, -Ti is about generalizing or simplifying information. This has the effect of "smoothing things out" which has to do with Si. But +Ti is about putting things in order which increases certainty and prevents bad things from happening (Ni). So maybe you could say that the mobilizing function IME is used to gauge whether we are fulfilling the leading function IME.
    Ok so this is an ancient post, but I'm trying to understand how the HA plays out for ESEs (since "to be perfect" is a shitty description), and I like this explanation because it aligns with what I've observed in many people. But how would that manifest for an ESE? Would they direct their at any different people/places to see which has more potential? I can't quite picture it, though at least in the LSEs it could help explain the controlling thing. Maybe the same thing for ESEs, except the area of desired control would be ethical?

  11. #11
    Exodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,475
    Mentioned
    332 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Mars View Post
    Ok so this is an ancient post, but I'm trying to understand how the HA plays out for ESEs (since "to be perfect" is a shitty description), and I like this explanation because it aligns with what I've observed in many people. But how would that manifest for an ESE? Would they direct their at any different people/places to see which has more potential? I can't quite picture it, though at least in the LSEs it could help explain the controlling thing. Maybe the same thing for ESEs, except the area of desired control would be ethical?
    ESEs are typically very open and welcoming to new people and new sources of emotional stimulus, and they will also seek them out to some degree. However, they are not always so good at telling which new things actually have the most potential or are actually the most unique, this is something they need help with.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •