My type?

[limNol]

Hey, I know I only have like 40 posts here, but if anyone has any impressions of what type I am, I'd love to hear them.

What kind of info (besides VI) would be useful to help you guys get a feel for my type? I know I could write a self-description, but I feel like I could emphasize any aspects of my personality to portray myself as a certain type, so that seems kind of pointless.

(PS. as of this bizarre thread, I've already been typed Ti valuing and EII by various members of this community.)

Also, I have some ideas about my type, but I don't want to "reveal" them for the sake of getting an unbiased impression from you guys.

Thanks!

[ashlesha]

idk, but i like you so far and i'm curious. i thought about asking you at one point - i had assumed you knew - but figured you were keeping it secret for a reason, lol.

i'll copy the questions azeroffs asked me in my own type thread if you want a starting point to talk about yourself. but i think i'll probably leave interpretation of the answers up to someone else.

Who are you?
What are you interests?
What do you do for a living?
Are you in school? How do/did you like it?
Future goals? Past experiences?
What are your friends like?
What would you say the focal point of your life is?
Beliefs? General thoughts about w/e?
How would you describe yourself compared to others?
How would others describe you?

[CILi]

And, seriously, what's your avi?

This is important.

[limNol]

idk, but i like you so far and i'm curious. i thought about asking you at one point - i had assumed you knew - but figured you were keeping it secret for a reason, lol.

i'll copy the questions azeroffs asked me in my own type thread if you want a starting point to talk about yourself. but i think i'll probably leave interpretation of the answers up to someone else.

Thanks! These look really helpful.

Who are you?

That's the question. :wink:

What are you interests?

Playing music, writing music, reading, writing, politics/philosophy/sociology, computer programming, tennis.. When I first become interested in something, I tend to become obsessed with it. I find out everything I can about it and can't stop thinking of it. Then I can forget all about it for a while until something sparks my interest in it again. I guess I tend to fluctuate between obsessions, and I've had people close to me call me an "all or nothing person" because of this.

What do you do for a living?

I'm still in college, so basically -- whatever odd jobs I can get my hands on for the moment.

Are you in school? How do/did you like it?

I'm a university student atm. The material itself is fascinating, but I hate the fact that 50% of my energy goes into petty work that distracts me from real learning. I'm comfortable with teaching myself stuff and being productive when I can set my own schedule, but worrying about grades, listening to bored (and therefore boring) professors drone on, worrying about all that shit drives me crazy. Still, I love the actual things I study. I love the social sciences and figuring out the patterns that shape peoples lives, thoughts, and actions; I love math because no matter how much work I put into understanding it, there are still so many more mysteries it contains; I love music (I'll talk more about that later). So I guess school is a love/hate relationship.

I hated high school because so much of it was tedious logistical shit. I got into all sorts of trouble, and my grades were ok but I didn't do enough work to make them great. But I did well on my SATs, clicked with some of the people who did my college entrance interviews, and poured my heart into my college entrance essays, so I ended up at a great university anyway, for which I'm very grateful.

Future goals? Past experiences?

My goal is to figure out the thinks I'm passionate enough about to build my entire future around. In terms of more concrete goals, I want to make sure I am financially comfortable enough to not have to spend my time worrying about how to pay the bills, and I want to be well connected enough that my work makes an impact on the world. But I will never make being financially comfortable and well connected an end in and of itself.

In terms of past experiences... my family moved around a lot as a kid. I think this impacted me somewhat, because I am a very restless person; I can't stay in one place too long. Unfortunately, I think it also gave me the impression that if something doesn't work, I can just escape it by moving. But I also think it gave me a certain curiosity -- I definitely want to see as much of the world as I can, travel to new and exciting places once I have the $$$ in place.

What are your friends like?

This is hard for me to answer because a lot of my friends are very different from each other -- sometimes I joke to them that I'd like to run a psychology experiment where I just put them all in a room together, leave, and see what happens. But I gravitate most towards people with a strong sense of who they are and what they want out of life, even if they still have a very vague sense of how they'll get there. People who have things in life they really care about and that they're actively working towards, and people who aren't afraid to stand the fuck up and say what they think, even if it makes them unpopular. People who think for themselves.

What would you say the focal point of your life is?

Right now, I feel like the thing holding my life together is the music I write. I tend to go through a lot of ups and downs -- well, honestly, a lot more downs because it's hard for me to appreciate what I have, I'm always thinking about how things could be better -- and music just helps me express whatever I'm feeling totally uncensored; in a piece of music, I can unify divergent, even contradictory aspects of my life and myself. I can be whoever I want, say whatever I want, feel whatever I want, do what I want. And later, I can listen to the music I've written, and I feel like I'm having a very personal conversation with myself, like I am watching my life unfold and feeling my experiences slip out into the air around me.

Beliefs? General thoughts about w/e?

No religious beliefs, decidedly atheist. I'm always hesitant to tell people this, but I'm a Marxist, and I've worked with several Marxists groups in the past. Currently, I'm not really into that scene because most Marxists don't really have a clue (there's so much ignorance about Marxism on both sides of the issue, and it's really frustrating to deal with), but I do think the world we live in needs to be and has the potential to be rebuilt from scratch. Call me a crazy idealist, but I believe we have the power to do so much more with our lives and our society, and eventually we'll have to acknowledge this if we ever want to reach our human potential or reverse our society's increasing tendency towards self-destruction.

I'll finish this later, but I really need to start studying for my final exam tomorrow. Thanks the16types for helping me procrastinate.

And, seriously, what's your avi?

This is important.

Seriously, what's yours?

:wink:

[CILi]

Seriously, what's yours?

It's an ultra-high-zoom crop of a screenshot from a concert I was at back in '05.

Why the heck was I there? Well, ...there's really no good answer for that.

But, anyway, I was,
and eventually I bought the DVD,
and eventually I took a bunch of random screenshots,
and eventually I found "the avatar" I've used pretty much everywhere ever since.

This thread's not about "my type", though...

What's your story?

[KeroZen]

I like the polarization sorter question...for what it's worth, even if you can't answer, trying do it might give readers interesting hints about yourself.

limNol:

1) In the world and in any individual there are two conflicts, both are valid but which one do you feel is the greatest (most unbalanced) in you?

a) conflict between your spiritual self (= the mind) and your physical self (= the body)
b) conflict between your emotional self (= the man) and your rational self (= the cold logic)

2) Alternatively, you may also reverse the question and try to answer: "do you have more difficulties..."

a) telling if you are more N than S
b) telling if you are more F than T

[limNol]

What's your story?

I don't really have one, hence I evaded your question. :wink:

I couldn't pick a good avatar, so I opened an image editing program, did some random stuff, and ended up with something that I thought looked cool. I wish my avatar had some deeper meaning.

a) conflict between your spiritual self (= the mind) and your physical self (= the body)
b) conflict between your emotional self (= the man) and your rational self (= the cold logic)

I'd go with a, conflict between my spiritual and physical self. I have lots of plans for things I want to do with my life, lots of ideas for how to get more out of my life 'spiritually,' but keeping up my general physical energy, taking care of my body, etc. often gets in the way of that. Like, when I try to take my 'spiritual' realizations and turn them into reality, my damn body often gets in the way.

[EyeSeeCold]

+Te/-Fe?

[CILi]

I couldn't pick a good avatar...did some random stuff...ended up with something that I thought looked cool.

I wish my avatar had some deeper meaning.

Well, that settles it: Ni-valuing.

But, really, your reply to laghlagh seemed laden in both it and Se-seeking.

The thought of EII is, well, "interesting".

FWIW, I'd say IEI > ILI, but it's pretty close.

(EDIT: Icy beat me to it.)

[KeroZen]

When I first become interested in something, I tend to become obsessed with it. I find out everything I can about it and can't stop thinking of it. Then I can forget all about it for a while until something sparks my interest in it again. I guess I tend to fluctuate between obsessions, and I've had people close to me call me an "all or nothing person" because of this.

When you switch obsessions, what happens to the previous one? Does it stay rampant in a part of your mind, like a project put on hold until further notice but kept in your pocket, or is it really like you describe, ie you forget it all and focus more on the novelty aspect?

I'm comfortable with teaching myself stuff and being productive when I can set my own schedule, but worrying about grades...(cut)...I hated high school because so much of it was tedious logistical shit. I got into all sorts of trouble

You like to organize your schedule but don't like others imposing order on you?

I want to make sure I am financially comfortable enough to not have to spend my time worrying about how to pay the bills, and I want to be well connected enough that my work makes an impact on the world. But I will never make being financially comfortable and well connected an end in and of itself.

So I guess "being wealthy" is not your hidden agenda...

I am a very restless person; I can't stay in one place too long. Unfortunately, I think it also gave me the impression that if something doesn't work, I can just escape it by moving. But I also think it gave me a certain curiosity

Interesting.

Thanks the16types for helping me procrastinate.

It's a way to admit you are a procrastinator? :wink:

[KeroZen]

I couldn't pick a good avatar...did some random stuff...ended up with something that I thought looked cool.

I wish my avatar had some deeper meaning.

Well, that settles it: Ni-valuing.

What about it being an example of Ni demonstrative usage?

"A person uses this element mainly as a kind of game, or to ridicule those who he thinks take it too seriously. They often intentionally go against its conventional usage simply to prove a point in favor of their creative function."

He makes a point acknowledging he could have done something with deeper meaning, but after telling us he favored being.... creative instead! So he knows it's possible and people can pay attention to it, but that's not what he did in the end.

This also tells us that given too many choices ("I couldn't pick a good avatar"), he preferred to create his own ("did some random stuff...ended up with something that I thought looked cool")

[limNol]

Thanks for the responses, guys!

EyeSeeCold, would you mind explaining your reasoning for +Te/-Fe?

CILi, interesting, I see where you're coming from. Is there anything in particular that made the Ni thing jump out at you, or was it more like a general impression from the way I describe things?

When you switch obsessions, what happens to the previous one? Does it stay rampant in a part of your mind, like a project put on hold until further notice but kept in your pocket, or is it really like you describe, ie you forget it all and focus more on the novelty aspect?

Yeah, I keep it in some corner of my mind, I just don't feel like I can get anything else out of it at the moment. Eventually, I'll run across something that will remind me of it and re-spark my interest. It's not so much a project put on hold as one that I've just kind of burned out on and have to take a break from before I can move forward with it.

You like to organize your schedule but don't like others imposing order on you?

Yeah. I think it has to do with spending time on the things I deem important vs. putting too much energy into meeting other people's standards without really getting anything out of it myself.

So I guess "being wealthy" is not your hidden agenda...

I'm definitely not into wealth, status symbols, etc. Especially cuz so many people who like to rub your face in their wealth are just spoiled little kids who have no substance and have had everything handed to them on a silver platter but think that makes them the shit. So I don't value wealth. I sure don't mind having power though , and being in positions of power, even small ones, makes me feel good. But that's probably true for a lot of people.

[KeroZen]

Provided only Ni valuers thrive for deep meanings...

[limNol]

Provided only Ni valuers thrive for deep meanings...

Yeah, it's possible I'm just shallow and it's not type-related.

[KeroZen]

Why do you have doubts about your type?

From reading your posts elsewhere it's clear you have more than enough socionics knowledge to be pretty confident about your type, or at least have a rough idea.

You remind me my own typing thread where I already knew my type but didn't want other people to be biased. At some point you'll have to cooperate and share your thoughts, as typing is not a remote guessing game. Even if the process is fun...

[limNol]

Because I really want a third-party opinion from people who know their shit and aren't clouded by my own self-image... ie. you guys. The fact that yall are typing me over the internet already distorts the process somewhat, so why would I confuse things further by throwing out my own biases? The problem isn't really how much I know about socionics as it is my ability to see myself as clearly as I see other people.

[EyeSeeCold]

Well a type is a subject, so we need subjective data lol. If you act like a robot and don't get personal then we can't find your valued elements.

[limNol]

Haha I wanna post whatever personal info you guys think is relevant... I just didn't want to actually post what I think my type is. :wink:

[CILi]

What about it being an example of Ni demonstrative usage?

...Only Ni valuers thrive for deep meanings...

My sarcasm failed.

Apologies all around.

Is there anything in particular that made the Ni thing jump out at you, or was it more like a general impression from the way I describe things?

A couple of your quotes above:

I gravitate most towards people with a strong sense of who they are and what they want out of life, even if they still have a very vague sense of how they'll get there. People who have things in life they really care about and that they're actively working towards, and people who aren't afraid to stand the fuck up and say what they think, even if it makes them unpopular. People who think for themselves.

And later, I can listen to the music I've written, I feel like I'm having a very personal conversation with myself, like I am watching my life unfold and feeling my experiences slip out into the air around me.

I do think the world we live in needs to be and has the potential to be rebuilt from scratch. Call me a crazy idealist, but I believe we have the power to do so much more with our lives and our society, and eventually we'll have to acknowledge this if we ever want to reach our human potential or reverse our society's increasing tendency towards self-destruction.

I'll finish this later, but I really need to start studying for my final exam tomorrow. Thanks the16types for helping me procrastinate.

I have lots of plans for things I want to do with my life, lots of ideas for how to get more out of my life 'spiritually,' but keeping up my general physical energy, taking care of my body, etc. often gets in the way of that. Like, when I try to take my 'spiritual' realizations and turn them into reality, my damn body often gets in the way.

And, of course:

I wish my avatar had some deeper meaning.

[KeroZen]

I'm sure other members can do very fine just by extrapolating around your word choices and information elements focus, but as an ego Fe type the internet distortion you describe means: I don't see your face, your expressions, your eyes, I don't ear you, your voice, your intonations, I can't see you move, how you stand etc...

How does your mind work? Let's do a little role-playing experiment. Say some friend you just met invited you at a party, but he's the only one you know there. The party is in a flat somewhere, you arrive alone in the hallway, your friend is already in the place. You ring at the door, it opens and leads directly to a big room where 50 unknown persons stand. You step in and your friend in the crowd recognizes you and yells "hey here's XXXX, the guy I talked you about!" and then the 50 persons all start looking at you.

Try to describe exactly what would happen in your mind between the moment you put your finger on the doorbell and the moment the 50 persons look at you. What would be your thoughts train, on what information in the scene would you focus and in what order? What's the thing you would take into consideration and those you would ignore?

Subsidiary question, how would you react and what would you answer to the 50 persons?

[limNol]

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.


Ok, I wanna get your guys thoughts on my self-typing. Feel free to tear it to shreds. I typed myself as EIE, Ni subtype. You guys are right about the Ni, and I think that's one of the most pronounced aspects of my type, although it took me a while to figure that out because Ni isn't as overt as a lot of other elements.

When I originally got into socionics, I kept thinking I was some Ne type cuz I use a lot of Ne. But nothing quite fit, and I figured out I was a Ni/Se type later -- I think I use a lot of Ne, but when I use it I feel like it's more a superficial thing, not something I find fulfilling. Like, I mainly use it in the service of creating a certain atmosphere.

I identify with beta > gamma. I'm not really fact-oriented and disciplined in my thinking the way Te types are, and I always give precedence to Fe > Te in my everyday interactions. So after I went through some Ne types, I decided I was IEI.

Thing is, I don't really identify with IP temperament. While I do think I have a lot of traits of Se seeking in terms of sometimes needing a kick in the ass, having trouble getting out of my own world, and some of the other things you guys pointed out. Ni leading types / IPs seem like they have a passive approach to life that I don't identify with at all. I could never be as relaxed as IP types seem; I always feel anxious, like I'm trying to improve things. Also, although I don't identify with the "wanting to be wealthy" aspect of Se HA, I do identify with the power-seeking aspect like I pointed out above.

Oh, and I feel much more rigid in my plans, expectations, values, perceptions, etc. in a way that seems rational > irrational. And while I do often get caught up in my internal Ni perceptions, I don't find these perceptions gratifying in and of themselves, without something external they ultimately feed into. Finally, I like to get emotional reactions from people in a way that I perceive as more Fe leading than Fe creative.

There are a couple things that don't fit with my self-typing though:

1) I'm not really sure I see my self as Ti-seeking. From what I can tell, I'm pretty good with Ti, I'm not sure what impression comes across from my posts?

2) I'm not really bubbly and outgoing the way so many Fe dominants are. In fact, in some settings I could easily be mistaken for an introvert.

So these two things would seem to point to IEI > EIE. But I dunno, IEI just doesn't feel totally right either. I feel like I have a sort of tension, drive, and rigidity in me that doesn't fit.

OK, I typed this up really quickly -- I'm sitting stranded in a fucking airport on hardly any sleep -- but hopefully this gives you some idea where I'm coming from as to my type. I'd love to hear your thoughts in light of this and my previous posts here.

PS. Also, Reinin dichotomies would indicate EIE > IEI cuz I'm pretty sure I'm both a negativist and a constructivist.

[limNol]

I'm sure other members can do very fine just by extrapolating around your word choices and information elements focus, but as an ego Fe type the internet distortion you describe means: I don't see your face, your expressions, your eyes, I don't ear you, your voice, your intonations, I can't see you move, how you stand etc...

How does your mind work? Let's do a little role-playing experiment. Say some friend you just met invited you at a party, but he's the only one you know there. The party is in a flat somewhere, you arrive alone in the hallway, your friend is already in the place. You ring at the door, it opens and leads directly to a big room where 50 unknown persons stand. You step in and your friend in the crowd recognizes you and yells "hey here's XXXX, the guy I talked you about!" and then the 50 persons all start looking at you.

Try to describe exactly what would happen in your mind between the moment you put your finger on the doorbell and the moment the 50 persons look at you. What would be your thoughts train, on what information in the scene would you focus and in what order? What's the thing you would take into consideration and those you would ignore?

Subsidiary question, how would you react and what would you answer to the 50 persons?

Haha, I would be happy, cuz I mean, who doesn't like to have people talking about them? So I would probably involuntarily smile really big. But I would also feel a little awkward, like "how am I supposed to react..?" I would be thinking "I wonder what he was saying about me," and in my mind I'd be going through possible reasons this guy would be talking to me while simultaneously trying to gauge people's expressions and body language to see if he'd been saying good things or talking shit about me. :wink:

[KeroZen]

Right so instead of reacting (apart from the smile) you would be intuiting possible trends, taking any Fe and Se cues you could into account, maybe elaborating awkward paranoiac theories with your Ti... then you would react... Would you really have a big smile or more a Gargarin smile?

Surprisingly I see as much Ne as Ni, even if you have a Ni preference, making me think N is your leading function.

Ni leading types / IPs seem like they have a passive approach to life that I don't identify with at all. I could never be as relaxed as IP types seem; I always feel anxious, like I'm trying to improve things.

I'm IEI and I started my company. Golden is IEI and she's also her own boss. So much for IP = passive...this is bullshit. Will power is the key.

I'm anxious, perfectionist, I also have a rather strong Ti compared to the average IEI...I also have the tension, drive and rigidity you describe, but the latter comes from my education (delta mum) and I can almost appear like a j type too...

[limNol]

Would you really have a big smile or more a Gargarin smile?

Hmm.. I think a pretty big smile, but I'm not sure what exactly you mean by a 'Gargarin smile'?

You make some good points about IEI; I might have to reconsider. But how would you counter the fact that I identify with the Reinin dichotomies for EIE much more than for IEI (especially constructivism and negativism)?

Also, in my experience, a lot of IEIs and EIEs use Fe differently. Like, IEIs I know seem more focused on keeping emotions positive, whereas I don't really identify with that; in fact, I often sink in my negative emotions, and I'm not afraid to express strongly negative feelings or charge the emotional atmosphere in a strongly negative way. I'm not sure if this is a general EIE/IEI thing or something that varies between individuals though.

[Sir Knight]

Speaking as a (possible) IEI, I focus heavily on the negative as well. That could really just be more of a life/mental health thing than a type thing. Not that I want to imply you're unhealthy.

[golden]

Hmm.. I think a pretty big smile, but I'm not sure what exactly you mean by a 'Gargarin smile'?

When Kero and I discussed our use of what some Russian Socionists point to as an IEI smile, I said that I often feel melancholy and detached, and with no one around my face reflects this. Among people, my baseline socially approachable face is a little closed-mouth smile. And if the smile feels forced, it means I'm not comfortable; if it feels natural, then I'm very at ease with the setting or with someone.

You make some good points about IEI; I might have to reconsider. But how would you counter the fact that I identify with the Reinin dichotomies for EIE much more than for IEI (especially constructivism and negativism)?

I'm not sure how much stock to put in the Reinin dichotomies. When I came to this forum I was undecided between EIE and IEI, but (1) I'm introverted by all definitions of introverted, no matter how outgoing I may sometimes seem, and (2) the information elements line up very neatly for me with IEI>EIE. In particular, the Te PoLR.

Also, in my experience, a lot of IEIs and EIEs use Fe differently. Like, IEIs I know seem more focused on keeping emotions positive, whereas I don't really identify with that; in fact, I often sink in my negative emotions, and I'm not afraid to express strongly negative feelings or charge the emotional atmosphere in a strongly negative way. I'm not sure if this is a general EIE/IEI thing or something that varies between individuals though.

I don't think I focus on keeping emotions positive. Of course, I feel that my self-typing should always be open to revision. But anyway, yeah, I'm always sinking in negative emotions internally. I have to be pretty far gone to load other people up with those emotions. In below-average to positive circumstances I do try to use Fe or whatever to be engaging and mildly upbeat or entertaining. If I'm mired in personal shit, I can be a big downer, but I regret it when that happens and try to correct myself. Not sure if that really indicates type, just as you stated--could be individual variation.

[limNol]

I'm not sure how much stock to put in the Reinin dichotomies. When I came to this forum I was undecided between EIE and IEI, but (1) I'm introverted by all definitions of introverted, no matter how outgoing I may sometimes seem, and (2) the information elements line up very neatly for me with IEI>EIE. In particular, the Te PoLR.

I think Reinin dichotomies are a mixed bag. As you and Sir Knight point out, the negativist/positivist dichotomy doesn't say much about type -- even if it's theoretically sound, which is debatable, there are a lot of non-type-related factors that influence people's outlook. But I put more stock in the constructivist/emotivist dichotomy, partly because it theoretically makes sense, and partly because I've found that it's one of those things in socionics where, when you first read about it, it doesn't seem like anything special, but then when you start keeping an eye out for it in people you've typed, you start to realize there's some weight behind it.

If you don't mind me asking, what made you gravitate towards Te PoLR > Si PoLR when you were undecided between IEI and EIE?

But anyway, yeah, I'm always sinking in negative emotions internally. I have to be pretty far gone to load other people up with those emotions. In below-average to positive circumstances I do try to use Fe or whatever to be engaging and mildly upbeat or entertaining.

Personally, I have to find an outlet for my negative emotions, whether it's through conversation or music/art/writing or some physical activity. (Actually, I rely on my emotions in general, including negative emotions, to be productive.) Otherwise, they just pile up and pile up. When you talk about "using Fe or whatever to be engaging and mildly upbeat or entertaining," this strikes me as a difference between IEI and EIE Fe; IEIs sort of "default" to promoting a general upbeat ambiance, whereas EIEs seem more directed in terms of Fe, like they're going for more specific emotional reactions. That might be why IEIs can come across as more generally positive even though everyone experiences wide ranges in moods that aren't type-related.


Looking back at some of the stuff I wrote yesterday, not everything came out right -- like, I didn't mean to imply that IEIs aren't driven or whatever, cuz obviously every type has people who are driven and people who are aimlessly drifting through life. Hell, I know some LIEs who are totally fucking lazy.

It's that the tension/rigidity/drive/whatever I was describing comes across in the way I conduct myself externally. Everything I do is more or less hurried. When I walk down the street, I always walk really fast, like I can't wait to get where I'm going, even if I don't have anywhere to be, and this is kind of how I do things in general. IPs seem to conduct themselves in a more relaxed manner; even if they aren't actually relaxed, their movements and behavior seem like they default to an unhurried quality, even a certain elegance, that I could never emulate unless I was trying really hard. I guess I'm a little jealous of them for this because I'm never able to calm down, always being tense and hurried, and having this be obvious externally. Si PoLR or just a non-type-related flaw?

[Sir Knight]

To quote Azeroffs (blessed be his wisdom):

Te is associated with algorithmical logic. The step by step process needed to solve a problem. Te PoLRs might have trouble figuring out what to do when faced with a problem or trying to reach a goal. Or they might get lost in "what do I do next," or easily fall off track towards what they want to accomplish, or not have a thorough plan toward what they want to accomplish. Te PoLRs often become unrealistic.

Additionally, I find that Te-PoLR can manifest as an aversion to raw theory and studying. Essentially, research and education are only easily attained when I'm interested and captivated by the thing that I'm studying. Without that captivation, there's a great sense of ennui when I have to force myself to keep my eyes from glazing over and doing the thing where I hit the bottom of the page and realize I don't remember what I just read.

And then, when I'm asked to actually demonstrate my knowledge, there's a great deal of fear there on the chance that I'll be totally wrong. Like, icy fist squeezing tight around my heart kind of fear.

Granted, any of the above could really apply to most non-logical types, so take this with a grain of salt.

Also I tend to walk really quickly. I outpace all of my friends pretty easily.

[golden]

If you don't mind me asking, what made you gravitate towards Te PoLR > Si PoLR when you were undecided between IEI and EIE?

I'm not sure, as I reflect on it, that it really came down to just the PoLR--it was the whole picture presented by the two types. EIE just didn't add up correctly. But I do know that all of my problems lie in the practical domain anything that requires me to think in a simple step-by-step manner. But if you look at this post in a thread on Si-PoLR, where Ladyinred summed everyone's observations, Si-PoLR just doesn't fit me really well:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...3&postcount=80

All those little details that people with Si-PoLR do add up to something, even if the details are sometimes very personal and not strictly true of all people with Si-PoLR. I'm not always under some kind of internal pressure, I'm pretty comfortable in my skin, I'm not always moving on to the next thing. I don't worry about my health all that much, whatever. I dunno. My relationship to what I see as Si is just not this complicated. I use Si in a limited way, I don't love it, but it doesn't pose me huge problems ... I don't think.

It's that the tension/rigidity/drive/whatever I was describing comes across in the way I conduct myself externally. Everything I do is more or less hurried. When I walk down the street, I always walk really fast, like I can't wait to get where I'm going, even if I don't have anywhere to be, and this is kind of how I do things in general. IPs seem to conduct themselves in a more relaxed manner; even if they aren't actually relaxed, their movements and behavior seem like they default to an unhurried quality, even a certain elegance, that I could never emulate unless I was trying really hard. I guess I'm a little jealous of them for this because I'm never able to calm down, always being tense and hurried, and having this be obvious externally. Si PoLR or just a non-type-related flaw?

I also walk fast, but more just for the pleasure of moving my body freely. It's not about feeling an internal pressure, unless I'm with a horrible slowpoke. I would say that no matter how fast I move, I probably give the impression of being a bit relaxed, as people will see me moving and then express surprise that speed is actually involved. I definitely can come across as very calm, even inert.

I think what you're describing could be interpreted as type-related.

[limNol]

Additionally, I find that Te-PoLR can manifest as an aversion to raw theory and studying. Essentially, research and education are only easily attained when I'm interested and captivated by the thing that I'm studying. Without that captivation, there's a great sense of ennui when I have to force myself to keep my eyes from glazing over and doing the thing where I hit the bottom of the page and realize I don't remember what I just read.

I relate to this, but I can also think of some Ti egos I know who seem to live by this, so I'm skeptical that it's type-related. I think forcing ourselves to absorb knowledge that we could care less about is a learned skill; I don't think forcing one's self to accumulate meaningless information is something that comes naturally to any type, although it's true that some types might have an easier time adapting to what you describe.

I'm not sure, as I reflect on it, that it really came down to just the PoLR--it was the whole picture presented by the two types. EIE just didn't add up correctly. But I do know that all of my problems lie in the practical domain anything that requires me to think in a simple step-by-step manner. But if you look at this post in a thread on Si-PoLR, where Ladyinred summed everyone's observations, Si-PoLR just doesn't fit me really well:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...3&postcount=80

All those little details that people with Si-PoLR do add up to something, even if the details are sometimes very personal and not strictly true of all people with Si-PoLR. I'm not always under some kind of internal pressure, I'm pretty comfortable in my skin, I'm not always moving on to the next thing. I don't worry about my health all that much, whatever. I dunno. My relationship to what I see as Si is just not this complicated. I use Si in a limited way, I don't love it, but it doesn't pose me huge problems ... I don't think.

You sound way more relaxed than I could be. I used to sometimes focus really hard to reach the state you're describing, but as soon as I would start thinking about / doing something it would all go to hell.

That thread is great, and it captures so many of my feelings about Si. I feel like I could have written a lot of the stuff in it. And the way you describe Si feels more like my attitude towards Te -- it's not something I enjoy or something I'm really good at, but I can get by, and it's not an insecurity that impacts the way I live my life.


The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning back towards my original self-typing of EIE although you guys have definitely dispelled some of my assumptions about IEIs.

[Aiss]

Continuing this thread, because I was off-topic there:

KeroZen, just a little hint about our dilemma: do you notice your writing style, that it's structured like a tree? This is, IMO a great difference between how IEIs and ILEs can put their reasoning into words: while IEIs have no problem in maintaining a coherent sentence and paragraph, even in a literary manner - it is some sort of a storytelling - I'd add, ILEs struggle all the time to put their structured ideas into a continuous flow of words. Things connect and go from one thing to another in a big tree that contains virtually everything, at one point you have to arbitrarily stop refining on one branch, to get to the main trunk to go further on what could be called "the main point". Am I right that this is also a problem to you too?

Paranthetic, incidental, "however", "nevertheless", "but", "and", "also", "on the other hand", and things like these. Note how people get stuck onto one thing while to you (IMO), that's only a small detail with no meaning outside the big structural picture.

Edit: but this reduces, of course, to who you consider to be an ILE, correctly typed, and what you understand from the descriptions. Look for the clues, to find out the different reasoning - or process of thought - behind the behavioral traits of different types. Otherwise, I can't tell you what to take for granted and what to be skeptical of.

For all the Ni hidden connections, I can't figure out what any of this has with limNol's type.

[The Ineffable]

For all the Ni hidden connections, I can't figure out what any of this has with limNol's type.

Whoops! Sorry, I meant to post it in Kerozen's typing thread, I had it open in my FF for quite some and I though this is it. I'll delete and put it there. (didn't sleep for 24+, sorry)

[Beautiful sky]

I don't really have one, hence I evaded your question. :wink:

I couldn't pick a good avatar, so I opened an image editing program, did some random stuff, and ended up with something that I thought looked cool. I wish my avatar had some deeper meaning.


I'd go with a, conflict between my spiritual and physical self. I have lots of plans for things I want to do with my life, lots of ideas for how to get more out of my life 'spiritually,' but keeping up my general physical energy, taking care of my body, etc. often gets in the way of that. Like, when I try to take my 'spiritual' realizations and turn them into reality, my damn body often gets in the way.

+

already you are not an IEI.

[limNol]

+

already you are not an IEI.

Maritsa, if you've got an argument against IEI, I want to hear it! But abstracting that one sub-phrase from its broader context doesn't count. I mentioned taking care of my body because my general inability / inattention thereof gets in the way of my more important goals.

[Beautiful sky]

Maritsa, if you've got an argument against IEI, I want to hear it! But abstracting that one sub-phrase from its broader context doesn't count. I mentioned taking care of my body because my general inability / inattention thereof gets in the way of my more important goals.

doesn't matter
it seems to me that IEI, just like ILI (my mom included) don't value it enough and pay attention to it enough to care to take care of their body. I know because I am her benefit relations and boy does she not ever listen to me when I use my Si-HA and give her all sorts of health and diet advice.

[Sir Knight]

doesn't matter
it seems to me that IEI, just like ILI (my mom included) don't value it enough and pay attention to it enough to care to take care of their body. I know because I am her benefit relations and boy does she not ever listen to me when I use my Si-HA and give her all sorts of health and diet advice.

...IEI's are incapable of taking care of their bodies? Don't brush their teeth, for instance?

[Beautiful sky]

...IEI's are incapable of taking care of their bodies? Don't brush their teeth, for instance?

I honestly don't know about IEI in that case, but my mom doesn't and she doesn't shower or take care of her body that well. I don't mean this to be information for pointing fingers and judging people. I love her and accept her as she is; that is the love and bond we have for each other and I've had to just let her be as she feels comfortable because life's too short.

I have seen a few IEI who are look like they really are fashionistas and take care of themselves, so, maybe it is different for them.

[Sir Knight]

I honestly don't know about IEI in that case, but my mom doesn't and she doesn't shower or take care of her body that well. I don't mean this to be information for pointing fingers and judging people. I love her and accept her as she is; that is the love and bond we have for each other and I've had to just let her be as she feels comfortable because life's too short.

I know there's no malice behind this, it just strikes me as an odd notion that taking care of one's body and health is solely the domain of Si-valuers. I mean, were that the case you'd have millions of filthy, toothless, unwashed hobomen and beggarladies.

I mean, I brush and floss twice a day, I shower every day, I lift weights to stay in shape, I take medicines to ease my sickness symptoms... I don't see how just taking care of the day to day necessities of one's body corresponds to valued Si.

[Beautiful sky]

I know there's no malice behind this, it just strikes me as an odd notion that taking care of one's body and health is solely the domain of Si-valuers. I mean, were that the case you'd have millions of filthy, toothless, unwashed hobomen and beggarladies.

I mean, I brush and floss twice a day, I shower every day, I lift weights to stay in shape, I take medicines to ease my sickness symptoms... I don't see how just taking care of the day to day necessities of one's body corresponds to valued Si.

Unfortunately many are ENFp types. Even Si ignoring ESFp's and ESTp's can get themselves into trouble with this. I've also seen many ISTp's not take care of themselves and I don't know why this happens to them either. Now we're attaching generality....I guess if the sensation is subjectively pleasant the Si will carry out that function. I don't know either, but it seems to.

[limNol]

...IEI's are incapable of taking care of their bodies? Don't brush their teeth, for instance?

Exactly. That's why the most reliable typing method is VI-by-the-teeth. For example, here are some benchmark SEI teeth:


Now here are my teeth:


Can I be IEI now?

I have seen a few IEI who are look like they really are fashionistas and take care of themselves, so, maybe it is different for them.

There's a difference between taking care of your body and keeping up appearances. Similar behavior, different underlying motives. I think Si types are more concerned with taking care of the body as an end in itself, which might be what you're getting at. Whereas other types try to keep their bodies functioning smoothly insofar as not doing so interferes with more important goals.

I like how my typing thread has morphed into a discussion of which types are more likely to brush their teeth.