Problem with SLE/ESTp brother being rude and dominating

[Mediator Kam]

My family and I are having a problem with my ESTp brother. He sits around waiting for a chance to call my sister all sorts of vulgar names. If she trips, he'll laugh and call her a dumbass, if she is eating a lot, he'll call her fat, and the list goes on and on. Any attempt to rein him in only leads to him calling us "prudes".

I know he's 13 and that is the time when people are super confused, but he is power-playing with my sister, continuously asserting his "dominance" over her. I really want him to chill out, but I'm not sure how to go about that. I try talking to him about it all, but he just makes a mockery of it, and I can barely get him to listen.

Any advice?

[Blaze]

what is your sister's type?

SLE does this to everybody, either outwardly or inwardly....

[Mediator Kam]

what is your sister's type?

SLE does this to everybody, either outwardly or inwardly....

I am under the impression she is ESFj, very giggly and extroverted. Def Fe base. She calls him mean and doesn't value the Se he gives off, so ENFj isn't too possible.

Esper, I should try to treat him like a man, because he's the kind of kid that would defend his friends and kick their asses. I'd like to be able to do that, so maybe I should "value" his Se and stuff. Maybe I'm not a very good brother, because he sees my lack of aggression and takes that for weakness.

It seems like kid SLEs just need to be granted a bit of autonomy, a bit of power.

hmm, interesting. He's very protective of his personal items, maybe I should coerce my parents to let him expand himself more, give him that power he wants.

[Rubicon]

hmm, interesting. He's very protective of his personal items, maybe I should coerce my parents to let him expand himself more, give him that power he wants.

Are your parents concerned at all? What do they do about it?

[Mediator Kam]

Are your parents concerned at all? What do they do about it?

Yes, they are a bit, they talk about how I never "acted up" like that when I was his age. My father has told me to talk to him some, because it would have more effect if his older brother talks to him. They just tell him to stop it, nothing serious. He has always done it, so we've become conditioned to it.

[redbaron]

I don't think your brother's behavior is at all respectful or appropriate and I think it's up to your parents to make it stop. If it were me, I'd start by having a talk with him and maybe giving some power over his own stuff as has been suggested here but honestly, if he doesn't shape up, I'd start taking away privileges until the behavior ends. It's not fair to your sister, who ought to be at least somewhat protected from that sort of behavior in her own home.

[redbaron]

I like that too. Honestly that was part of the problem with my SLE nephew, is parents not being on the ball about disciplining that stuff immediately. But I would be careful because if they do it in a way that is not appreciative of his innate character and is just openly forceful, it could cause an unhealthy SLE to get sneaky and mean. Of course, this is the problems with most kids and parent discipline.

yeah we don't want sneaky or mean SLEs roaming around. I think there's a way to do it that's respectful of both kids. I mean, the daughter deserves respect also. Just cause you're SLE doesn't give you the right to be calling your sister denigrating names all the time. Next thing you know you'll have parents allowing their IEI kids to commit suicide just cause they're IEI. just kiddin'

[XoX]

SLE kid needs to be faced head to head and shown that their actions are not allowed and will have real consequences. Redbaron's advice is good. More control and power to him about his own business so that he can be himself but also tough stance on any boundary crossings. Real consequences. Take away things and priviledges which really mean to him. Be tough but be fair. Use some logical and consistent approach that they can understand and appreciate. Create a Ti-system of reward and punishment that is. Always voice out your disapproval and approval and don't leave any room for guess work. He has to learn that doing X will get him rewarded and doing Y will get him punished. SLE learns this kind of system really quickly. But if you leave any room for the SLE to manouver in they will. If they sense a weakness in your stance they will not hesitate to capture it. Show them that there is only one way to get the reward and that is your way. Every other way leads to punishment. You know, be an ISTj.

[UDP]

My family and I are having a problem with my ESTp brother. He sits around waiting for a chance to call my sister all sorts of vulgar names. If she trips, he'll laugh and call her a dumbass, if she is eating a lot, he'll call her fat, and the list goes on and on. Any attempt to rein him in only leads to him calling us "prudes".

He's in full out "rebellion" mode. Sounds like fun.

I know he's 13 and that is the time when people are super confused, but he is power-playing with my sister, continuously asserting his "dominance" over her. I really want him to chill out, but I'm not sure how to go about that. I try talking to him about it all, but he just makes a mockery of it, and I can barely get him to listen.

Any advice?

He's testing for boundaries and structures.
Perhaps isolation - people leaving him.
He's craving interaction, and what you are telling him is that if he acts this way around people, they will still want to be with them.

Because he's family he can get away with it.

What also might work is getting some sort of role model or someone superior to him that will embarrass him or enlighten him.

Or you could perhaps get an INFj to morally berate him.
You should also consider what he is getting out of this.
He likes seeing people react to him, so if people stopped reacting, that might reduce his reward. But that might be hard for your sister to do, not react, or not take things personally.


I'm not really sure what to suggest.


If I were at your house I would be inclined to beat the shit out of him, but that probably would just make things worse. You are no thread, as his big brother. If your dad is LII, then he may have no real Se. Your mom might be the only one able to do it, but even then, she's the mother, so....

I don't know enough about the situation to suggest anything substantial. Let's talk about it sometime.

[UDP]

Do you think it's possible you could persuade your brother to take up some kind of physical activity (like sports) so he can focus all of that pent up negative energy he has in a positive way?

good idea.

[munenori2]

Kam, you need to call in the big shots.

[Blaze]

hey kam maybe you could pull an RV on him...lol

[Mediator Kam]

Thanks so much for the enlightening responses, he's a good kid when he wants to be, and I don't want to see something worse happen if I need to step in.

I hate feeling like I'm the parent, but I think I need to take more of a role in my brother's life, because my parents say that they are tired a lot, and they have a right to be, in their mid-50's.

My brother ignores my ISFj mother because she can get overly prudish even for me, and my dad just yells when my brother steps out of line, but he seems to leave the discipline to my mother a bit, I think he is at a bit of a loss to such a headstrong kid.

He already is very athletic, but I will try to get him to come outside more, offer to play ball with him, and get my ass whooped.

As I said, great thread. I need to re-read this again, so much info on ESTp problems/solutions here.

Ms Lively: lol, that could be my bro down there.

[Blaze]

LOL....teach your sister how to conversate with him....:-)

[Mediator Kam]

LOL....teach your sister how to conversate with him....:-)

She's a girly girl, I talked with her earlier about my brother, and she has conditioned herself to call him a retard herself, she doesn't want to fight with him or say anything. It's hard conversating with your sister, I keep on feeling she's smarter than her age.

[XoX]

Bad idea! Now, getting an INFp to morally manipulate him would be far better.

Totally agree. There is no way that a conflictor can change your behavior. Conflictor just annoys you and there is not enough mutual respect. A supervisor however could be useful. So any ISFjs around Kam?

And yes, if you can't be an ISTj then you can be Beta NF and control him through emotions That might work.

[XoX]

My brother ignores my ISFj mother because she can get overly prudish even for me, and my dad just yells when my brother steps out of line, but he seems to leave the discipline to my mother a bit, I think he is at a bit of a loss to such a headstrong kid.

Ouch. There is an ISFj around and still no help. You are screwed. Sell him or something (not really).

[Satan]

My family and I are having a problem with my ESTp brother. He sits around waiting for a chance to call my sister all sorts of vulgar names. If she trips, he'll laugh and call her a dumbass, if she is eating a lot, he'll call her fat, and the list goes on and on. Any attempt to rein him in only leads to him calling us "prudes".

I used to do this kind of thing a LOT when I was a little younger than this at school. We had this group with girls and guys. And it was pretty constant, unless I was occupied. And even then I'd bounce a bit.

With me, it's like not only would I do it. But there was this other guy that'd do it too. And it's like girls would easily feel "ganged up on", with "constant harassment".

I was probably the primary offender. Then this guy who sat to the right of me would try to harass me, or a girl, or something. And the guy to the left sometimes did more clever harassments not so immediately.

I know he's 13 and that is the time when people are super confused, but he is power-playing with my sister, continuously asserting his "dominance" over her. I really want him to chill out, but I'm not sure how to go about that. I try talking to him about it all, but he just makes a mockery of it, and I can barely get him to listen.

Any advice?

Well, back then, there used to be one girl I listened to. And sometimes she'd speak up, and get me to stop. And then I could not only stop myself, but get other people to stop too. Sometimes I'd iterate that if you don't like it, you should tell me to stop. Although sometimes that was met with "YOU DON'T LISTEN!".

Anyway, I had a few things that seemed to me make me back down a little.

1. Loud squeeling. Although I'd be like "Don't make that noise"
2. Threatening to leave. Although I'd be like don't leave, we need you, and get other people to say that we needed them.
3. This girl that I listened to. When confronted about why I only listened to her, I tended to say that she had a nice voice. And that if other people used nice voices then I'd listen to them.

Anyway, as crazy as it sounds. I met someone iterating similar behaviour to how I used to behave. I've heard people being sensitive to the tone used, and excusing their not listening based on the way that someone else said something. And doing irritating/agitating behaviour with a "what are you going to do about it" stance just like me. It was strange, because back then I tended to often threaten people, and I had a high need to be in control . And he seemed to reiterate that. Although me, myself, my need for control has dropped significantly. And curiously that guy only threatened me once. And it didn't seem head on. Although, he was a little on the explosive side. And somehow, I kind of stopped being very explosive at one stage. (although if you can get explosive, you can get explosive however long you've gone without exploding)

Anyway, this listening thing. My younger brother was also pretty good at getting me to listen. And he made it out as if it was really hard to get me to listen. Although he did seem to figure out strategys. And it's like he was kind of like the girl that I'd listen to. It's like because he didn't have a problem all the time. Because he was kind of "easy" when he had a problem. And because he tolerated my behaviour to some degree. It's like he had a way of calming me down.

The other thing that seemed to bug some of the girls, was the way that me and the other guy, we'd tend to fight. And as the intensity started increasing. It's like some got uncomfortable, and didn't like the aggressive vibes spreading out. Although we'd stand from sitting etc.

I'm not really sure how he was asserting dominance. But I used to often say about how girls were the inferior sex. That they're only hear to please us. That they should be useful. And I also used to kind of be fair / level. Like I'd say something mean about everyone going around in a circle. I also used to compliment though. And do things like say how we "needed" people, and how "useful" they were, and how "we can't cope on our own" and how "they can't cope on their own" and so forth. So in a way I was trying to hold the group together. As long as no-one complained about how it was being done.

There were rules too. And one of the girls that I had the most problems with, she'd often complain, and not want to follow rules. And be annoying. And abrasive and so forth. And whilst people were well behaved, I wasn't so abusive.

I don't think it's just SLE's that engage in such behaviours though. As lots of other people seem to. Back then there was a lot of asserting though. With the typical things of "Only I'm allowed to abuse", "quiet in the cheap seats" etc.

And I've seen that kind of behaviour more recently too though. It's like okay for one person to abuse, but no-one else. Which seems to confuse some victims

[Satan]

Me: "so are you on my team?"
Mini-ESTp: "no, you're on my team."

Must be awfully lonesome being on a team all by yourself.

[Satan]

Bertrand, must be hard being a jew, eh?

[Brentano]

My blood is pure Italian.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Emo Rayne Falcon reporting his childhood/adolescent strife.... (haha)

This thread is interesting to me. I too was bullied and cried easily. I wish I asserted myself but for whatever reason I didn't. It's always refreshing to hear so many similiar stories of how you felt like you were prey...that your personal power was taken away or something. I think in a sense they were just trying to be my friend but they were going about it the wrong way. I'm not sure. Now I do kind of feel stupid for letting it get to me, because it is retarded shit. I mean there's no way I can play victim since a lot of people went through way worse than me.

I remember this one kid first started bullying me by saying that "You're such a dork. That's right cry"... and I did cry. He said it so seriously. It's not what he said but how he said it. I was only like 5 guys you can't blame me. =p There was just this raw hatred in his voice that sounded real, and it's like ... he got to me. Wish he hadn't.

But nobody ever taught me how to stand up to bullies, both of my parents were bullied themselves and never really gotten over it, so they didn't know how to deal with it. I had to find another family to teach me how to stand up for myself. I realize a lot of the suggestions people gave me were crap because they hated it too and didn't know how to overcome it themselves.

Now not surprisingly the guy that bullied me is in a gang and is obsessed with guns and hurting people. But I know he gets hurt too- just he wanted to take it out on me for whatever reason. Oh well. In a way I am glad that he found somebody to connect to at least, even if he thought he had to make it out to be all cruel. =)

Some people are creeps and like to use our emo tears for lube what can I say- there's darkness inside all of us.

Part of what bullying does is.. I think it's effective because it can be surprising, it's the needed role as The Adversary to make sure you're fully equipped to handle yourself. Positively I just view it as a test because so much well...... so many awesome people were bullied.

And it's true sometimes there's a Disney channel-ness to the bullying.. that they really are going through whatever you are going through, and they are disgusted that they haven't gotten over it yet too or whatever. Usually gay men bully other gay men like blacks hurt other blacks. When I hear of how a guy that used to bully me turned out to be gay it's not really surprising.

[Ezra]

I'm pretty insensitive. All the time. And I pride myself on it.

My blood is pure Italian.

Man, you so Mafia!

[Reuben]

Fuck you.