Fuck it I'm a hoe. How do ISTjs act when they are attracted to someone?

[betterthan]

How does an ISTj act when they are interested in someone?



lol

[strrrng]

lol

[Ezra]

lol you little whore

[Ezra]

By the way hunbun, whatever happened to the SLE?

[betterthan]

By the way hunbun, whatever happened to the SLE?

I still want him, I want them all hunbun :tongue:.

Besides I don't know when I am going to bump into him next, could be months .

[Warlord]

They act like drooling idiots, shouldn't be dificult to notice at all.

[Ezra]

They act like drooling idiots, shouldn't be dificult to notice at all.

If they drool, you must be drowning in a pool of your own saliva.

[Ezra]

I still want him, I want them all hunbun :tongue:.

Don't get greedy now. You could turn into one of those degraded souls known as a bukakke slut. I'd post a diagram, but that will be slated by Sub, probably.

[betterthan]

Don't get greedy now. You could turn into one of those degraded souls known as a bukakke slut. I'd post a diagram, but that will be slated by Sub, probably.

0.o. Haha.
It's all about quality not quantity, baby :wink:.

EDIT; I was talking about men there lol...just to be clear =).

[betterthan]

They talk to you.

(and lol...)

LOL

[Warlord]

If they drool, you must be drowning in a pool of your own saliva.

If I'm criticizing LSIs for being from my point way too obvious aggressors, because I'm the opposite, why would I behave in the same manner. You aren't makeing any sense whatsover.

[Ezra]

0.o. Haha.
It's all about quality not quantity, baby :wink:.

EDIT; I was talking about men there lol...just to be clear =).

I was hoping you were talking about something else. No, you dirty girl, even better than that:

If I'm criticizing LSIs for being from my point way too obvious aggressors, because I'm the opposite, why would I behave in the same manner. You aren't makeing any sense whatsover.

Put it this way: you're a fucking ILI. Social skills are practically foreign to you. People are foreign to you. You can't strike out on your own because you're an anti-social loser who would bounce off the wall at the first sign of female skin.

Of course, that's not personalised.

[Warlord]

Put it this way: you're a fucking ILI. Social skills are practically foreign to you. People are foreign to you. You can't strike out on your own because you're an anti-social loser who would bounce off the wall at the first sign of female skin.

Of course, that's not personalised.

Hah, you got your point across this time

[Ezra]

Hah, you got your point across this time

[idolatrie]

I think I've been away from the forums too long to tell if someone is being serious or not, but I'll pretend this is a serious question.

How does an ISTj act when they are interested in someone?

Generally like they're not? And also, it depends on what you mean by interested - because hooking up and wanting an actual relationship are two very different kinds of interest (and expressed in very different ways, in my opinion).

I think if an ISTj wanted to hook up with someone, they'd make that fairly clear in a physical manner. As in, making physical contact, and using verbal cues to indicate that. There'd be an element of it being a response though - I don't think an ISTj would pursue someone who made it clear they were uninterested - but once there was some indication of reciprocation of desire, then yeah, I think the ISTj would just take the situation and run with it. Just don't expect the ISTj to respect you in the morning. (And I don't mean they would think you are a slut or whatever, but that I don't think an ISTj actually wants a relationship with anyone they hook up with casually.)

If you're talking about interested as in a relationship, well, then there's a whole lot more issues. The matter of reciprocation becomes far more of an issue. I think ISTjs can like someone and do their best to make sure that person never finds out - how effective that effort to hide it is you'll have to ask someone else. The fear of being emotionally hurt and well, not wanted, is huge. And gender may come into this point for me, but I categorically refuse to take the first step in terms of asking somebody out - at least, with the intention of that being a 'date', as opposed to just friends going out.

I think ISTjs are very bad at appearing vulnerable, so waiting for them to seem like they genuinely want a relationship is an exercise in futility. They play games though. A lot of strategic maneuvering goes on for sure. It's about finding out what the other party wants and is thinking. I know I'm playing these games with another LSI guy, and it's hilarious because I'm fairly certain we totally see through each other's little games - but it is also very comfortable and, well, fun. In a quiet and very exclusionary way.

Oh, and don't expect ISTjs to not be massively hypocritical when it comes to jealousy. I think they will totally use it as a tool in the whole game-playing thing, but if you try to use it back on them, it'll make them start to shut down if not totally make you out of bounds. As in, if a guy says he's seeing a girl, I'll take that as him being off the market. But I'll tell a guy I'm interested in about another bloke I'm seeing to make him jealous. Or I'll hook up with someone in front of him, again, to make him jealous. It is a bit of a throwing down the gauntlet to see if he'll try to stake a superior claim (which yes, he has), but couple that with the whole make-sure-he-never-finds-out-I-like-him thing, and well, haha, ISTjs are kind of fucked up.

Sooooo...anyways. Look for physical and verbal cues. If an ISTj is cooly polite to you, then no, they're probably not interested. If they try to catch your attention with a well-placed barb or some other sharp comment, then you're on the right track. If they put their hand on your arm (or your leg, or your c...well, you get the idea), then they probably want you physically (it may only be physically, or it may be more than that). But I think an ISTj, for all the verbal sparring, will never try to make someone they like look bad, especially in front of other people. They just want to test you out, make sure you're able to stand up to them.

[Satan]

I think I've been away from the forums too long to tell if someone is being serious or not, but I'll pretend this is a serious question.

Wow, you wrote at insightful post. I'm not ISTj but I can relate to a lot of the things you talk about.

Generally like they're not? And also, it depends on what you mean by interested - because hooking up and wanting an actual relationship are two very different kinds of interest (and expressed in very different ways, in my opinion).

Hey that's similar to me.

I think if an ISTj wanted to hook up with someone, they'd make that fairly clear in a physical manner. As in, making physical contact, and using verbal cues to indicate that. There'd be an element of it being a response though - I don't think an ISTj would pursue someone who made it clear they were uninterested - but once there was some indication of reciprocation of desire, then yeah, I think the ISTj would just take the situation and run with it. Just don't expect the ISTj to respect you in the morning. (And I don't mean they would think you are a slut or whatever, but that I don't think an ISTj actually wants a relationship with anyone they hook up with casually.)

Hmm, that's interesting. When I'm physical myself most girls seem to be completely aware that I'm into them. They're just then left with whether they're into me or not.

If you're talking about interested as in a relationship, well, then there's a whole lot more issues. The matter of reciprocation becomes far more of an issue. I think ISTjs can like someone and do their best to make sure that person never finds out - how effective that effort to hide it is you'll have to ask someone else. The fear of being emotionally hurt and well, not wanted, is huge. And gender may come into this point for me, but I categorically refuse to take the first step in terms of asking somebody out - at least, with the intention of that being a 'date', as opposed to just friends going out.

Then with girls I'm more interested in. There's not as much physical contact. And everything's much more complicated

God, what's a date. One time I ate with this girl, and we chatted. She started talking about power/influence/blah/blah/fucking-blah. Anyway, she seemed to a) imply that it was a date, b) "forget" that she had a boyfriend, c) get me and her boyfriend to spend time together with her there.

So what do you think happens? Well, like hell it wasn't a date to me. Forgetting she had a boyfriend, she acted "innocent/naieve" when called up on such. It was kind of immature thouch. And then when she gets me and her boyfriend to spend time together. Well I know the other guy. And uhh,

So yeah, I meet this guy. And he's trying to be all dominant, and he's being a bit of a dick. And he talks about "ruling the world" sits with his legs wide apart, tries to be cheeky with waitresses etc. You know all that posing bullshit.

Anyway, then somewhere along the way he starts complaining a lot. Not knowing what's happening. And it's like he goes from ruling the world, to not ruling the world and complaining/whining. When really I was staying pretty calm/resolute.

Now I kind of know that I can wind up some "dominant" people, without really having to assert dominance or be powerful or anything. But in quite a low/calm/easy way. I just act kind of casual, and then kind of watch dominant people as they seem to seek approval etc.

Anyway, afterwards it's like I'm thinking to myself what the fuck was she playing at. But hey, *I* don't want her. And I wasn't really wanting to make him look bad or anything. But he was kind of making a fool of himself.

So I was getting back to something. Who knows what my intentions are. If I try and imagine such a position by someone else. Well, I start perceiving her as trying to make him jealous. Trying to show that he's not as powerful, and doesn't have as much influence as he believes he does. And making a big show and tell isn't any better than just being casual.

Anyway, whatever it is. She's one of the girls I've met who want guys to appear dominant and strong and kind of compete. Thing is, she's not really that great a prize. So it's like a game, but it's like, by making people to compete she must be a worthy prize.

I think ISTjs are very bad at appearing vulnerable, so waiting for them to seem like they genuinely want a relationship is an exercise in futility. They play games though. A lot of strategic maneuvering goes on for sure. It's about finding out what the other party wants and is thinking. I know I'm playing these games with another LSI guy, and it's hilarious because I'm fairly certain we totally see through each other's little games - but it is also very comfortable and, well, fun. In a quiet and very exclusionary way.

Games is a funny thing. I've been in a few situations where people say that games are happening. And in some of them there are kind of always games in other peoples eyes.

I know I myself have a few games I kind of play. But like, some people get a but suspicious/paranoid when games are happening. Whereas other people can see them clearly. I'm not even really aware of the games I play myself. Although sometimes I'm kind of aware of games other people are playing.

One of the games I notice a few girls do is this kind of complex mirroring/relating thing. Where it's not immediate like align action to action, but like following similar tracks, relating things together etc. So it's like they'll follow your intention rather than your actions, or they'll kind of align with what actions they think you will do and then do things that make them redundant or change things that make things not work out or otherwise kind of look into the future and kind of "play" with you...

Oh, and don't expect ISTjs to not be massively hypocritical when it comes to jealousy. I think they will totally use it as a tool in the whole game-playing thing, but if you try to use it back on them, it'll make them start to shut down if not totally make you out of bounds. As in, if a guy says he's seeing a girl, I'll take that as him being off the market. But I'll tell a guy I'm

So you won't inquire about relationship status? I've actually noticed some girls do things like overinterpret if you mention some girl. I think in some ways it's best to start with these things rather than hide them, and bring them out later.

interested in about another bloke I'm seeing to make him jealous. Or I'll hook up with someone in front of him, again, to make him jealous. It is a bit of a

Hah, just turn away. I don't see the point in getting involved in those kinds of things.

throwing down the gauntlet to see if he'll try to stake a superior claim (which yes, he has), but couple that with the whole make-sure-he-never-finds-out-I-like-him thing, and well, haha, ISTjs are kind of fucked up.

Thing is, if you're reacting to someone, and acting weird, and trying to appear like you have a close relationship with some random guy and so on. Then you're going to start leading random guys on. And then they're going to get all clingy cos they think you must be really into them or something. ANd then you'll have to shut them down, then rumours will start. And blah blah. And then this guy you're trying to do that to will just go for someone less problematic. And you'll be alone, and you'll only have yourself to blame.

Sooooo...anyways. Look for physical and verbal cues. If an ISTj is cooly polite to you, then no, they're probably not interested. If they try to catch

HEH, that's what I try to do to keep interest low. I'll be polite and boring, and I won't be interesting and so on.

your attention with a well-placed barb or some other sharp comment, then you're on the right track. If they put their hand on your arm (or your leg, or

HEH, I like to jab people I like and people who are acting weird.

your c...well, you get the idea), then they probably want you physically (it may only be physically, or it may be more than that). But I think an ISTj, for all the verbal sparring, will never try to make someone they like look bad, especially in front of other people. They just want to test you out, make sure you're able to stand up to them.

That's probably true with me too.

[07490]

Both of these post is by far the most insighful description of how BETA ST relates to dating. I have read both of Idolatrie and mercutio's post word by word. And I have to tell you both that as me being an ENFj I do not see any potential of me being like that at all. Maybe an INFp can comment on this as well just how we are attracted to BETA ST romance. When I say I dont see myself potentially being like that I mean the dating style, agressiveness and the approach of how I anlayse relationship does not fit into this at all and therefore proberly will not conflict and the relationship will not become strangled. And as i would have guessed I would proberly need a partner like both of you to actually compliment my style. However that works is like Ying or Yang. I won't go into relationship expecting tHis is either an one night stand or a long term relationship. I have no idea that if you physically touch me that means you want a one night stand and not a long term relationship. There isn't a game I will play like how idolatrie mention she would with other ISTj. Maybe we BETA NF have our own kind of push and pull relationship.

"Sooooo...anyways. Look for physical and verbal cues. If an ISTj is cooly polite to you, then no, they're probably not interested. If they try to catch your attention with a well-placed barb or some other sharp comment, then you're on the right track. If they put their hand on your arm (or your leg, or your c...well, you get the idea), then they probably want you physically (it may only be physically, or it may be more than that). But I think an ISTj, for all the verbal sparring, will never try to make someone they like look bad, especially in front of other people. They just want to test you out, make sure you're able to stand up to them."

LOL!!! I can tell you in a million year I will never be able to stand up to a girl who physically touching me in a very direct physical and sexual manner.

[idolatrie]

So you won't inquire about relationship status? I've actually noticed some girls do things like overinterpret if you mention some girl. I think in some ways it's best to start with these things rather than hide them, and bring them out later.

If I was going to go out with someone, then yes, I'd definitely know their relationship status before saying yes to a date. It's actually one of the first things I'll find out if it looks like there's a possibility I'd hook up with a guy. But I think the point of asking about their relationship status is in itself is significant. As in, it indicates that you care about whether they are single or not.

With the particular situation I was talking about, (and yeah, it's only one specific guy who I do go to such lengths to try to instigate re: the whole jealousy thing, he's the other one, not my identical - there's no way I could get away with what I do with my identical) I know full well what his relationship status is. I suspect that is all part of it, our little games - he tells me about who he's dating and I mean, we basically discuss the girls. I do the same back. He doesn't like any guy I've dated, he always finds something disparaging to say about them (whether he knows them personally or not), whereas I do try to be nice about his girls.

Thing is, if you're reacting to someone, and acting weird, and trying to appear like you have a close relationship with some random guy and so on. Then you're going to start leading random guys on. And then they're going to get all clingy cos they think you must be really into them or something. ANd then you'll have to shut them down, then rumours will start. And blah blah. And then this guy you're trying to do that to will just go for someone less problematic. And you'll be alone, and you'll only have yourself to blame.

Haha, no, I usually let those guys know exactly what they're in for. I try not to lead guys on, I find it is usually easy as long as you just let them know what they're getting.

[FDG]

I think I've been away from the forums too long to tell if someone is being serious or not, but I'll pretend this is a serious question.



Generally like they're not? And also, it depends on what you mean by interested - because hooking up and wanting an actual relationship are two very different kinds of interest (and expressed in very different ways, in my opinion).

I think if an ISTj wanted to hook up with someone, they'd make that fairly clear in a physical manner. As in, making physical contact, and using verbal cues to indicate that. There'd be an element of it being a response though - I don't think an ISTj would pursue someone who made it clear they were uninterested - but once there was some indication of reciprocation of desire, then yeah, I think the ISTj would just take the situation and run with it. Just don't expect the ISTj to respect you in the morning. (And I don't mean they would think you are a slut or whatever, but that I don't think an ISTj actually wants a relationship with anyone they hook up with casually.)

If you're talking about interested as in a relationship, well, then there's a whole lot more issues. The matter of reciprocation becomes far more of an issue. I think ISTjs can like someone and do their best to make sure that person never finds out - how effective that effort to hide it is you'll have to ask someone else. The fear of being emotionally hurt and well, not wanted, is huge. And gender may come into this point for me, but I categorically refuse to take the first step in terms of asking somebody out - at least, with the intention of that being a 'date', as opposed to just friends going out.

I think ISTjs are very bad at appearing vulnerable, so waiting for them to seem like they genuinely want a relationship is an exercise in futility. They play games though. A lot of strategic maneuvering goes on for sure. It's about finding out what the other party wants and is thinking. I know I'm playing these games with another LSI guy, and it's hilarious because I'm fairly certain we totally see through each other's little games - but it is also very comfortable and, well, fun. In a quiet and very exclusionary way.

Oh, and don't expect ISTjs to not be massively hypocritical when it comes to jealousy. I think they will totally use it as a tool in the whole game-playing thing, but if you try to use it back on them, it'll make them start to shut down if not totally make you out of bounds. As in, if a guy says he's seeing a girl, I'll take that as him being off the market. But I'll tell a guy I'm interested in about another bloke I'm seeing to make him jealous. Or I'll hook up with someone in front of him, again, to make him jealous. It is a bit of a throwing down the gauntlet to see if he'll try to stake a superior claim (which yes, he has), but couple that with the whole make-sure-he-never-finds-out-I-like-him thing, and well, haha, ISTjs are kind of fucked up.

Sooooo...anyways. Look for physical and verbal cues. If an ISTj is cooly polite to you, then no, they're probably not interested. If they try to catch your attention with a well-placed barb or some other sharp comment, then you're on the right track. If they put their hand on your arm (or your leg, or your c...well, you get the idea), then they probably want you physically (it may only be physically, or it may be more than that). But I think an ISTj, for all the verbal sparring, will never try to make someone they like look bad, especially in front of other people. They just want to test you out, make sure you're able to stand up to them.

Jesus, that's high manteinance.

[Ezra]

Both of these post is by far the most insighful description of how BETA ST relates to dating.

Agreed.

Jesus, that's high manteinance.

Tell us about how you operate sometime, Fabio.

[betterthan]

Wow, thanks. Those were great descriptions .

[Satan]

FDG, I had a theory about high maintenance before... if you can maintain using natural behaviour what may look like high maintenance can seem like little to no work for you...

[Ritella]

i am one of those people who is very high maintenance about mantaining a very low maintenance persona.
you know....the "not overdone look" takes work.

[betterthan]

What if they never talk to you?! They don't even look you in the eyes when you are looking right at them?
Does this mean that they absolutely hate you or that they like you? haha.

But a couple of days ago, I talked to them online, and they were really flirty and like tried to wind me up, which seems like the aggressor approach to romance...and a couple of weeks ago his friends told me he liked me but that was before he started to ignore me. Lol.

So how am I meant to respond!? I do like him but then I like this IEI & SLE too (my head is totally wacked out!). I want to get to know him better so then I can make up my mind as to which I want to be with... so I don't want to be all like -I want you- because then it's like I am obligated to be with him! But I just want him to like relax because I do think he's awesome and for him to not feel like shy around me and how do I do this without letting him know I like him? Because I think the whole reason he is like this way is because he is afraid I don't like him. But then if I tell him I do like him but I like another guy too, then wouldn't that make him 'shut down' like you say idolatrie?

Gosh, sorry I don't think that makes sense haha but I hope you get the gist of my predicament. Haha thanks

[Ezra]

What if they never talk to you?! They don't even look you in the eyes when you are looking right at them?
Does this mean that they absolutely hate you or that they like you? haha.

But a couple of days ago, I talked to them online, and they were really flirty and like tried to wind me up, which seems like the aggressor approach to romance...and a couple of weeks ago his friends told me he liked me but that was before he started to ignore me. Lol.

So how am I meant to respond!? I do like him but then I like this IEI & SLE too (my head is totally wacked out!). I want to get to know him better so then I can make up my mind as to which I want to be with... so I don't want to be all like -I want you- because then it's like I am obligated to be with him! But I just want him to like relax because I do think he's awesome and for him to not feel like shy around me and how do I do this without letting him know I like him? Because I think the whole reason he is like this way is because he is afraid I don't like him. But then if I tell him I do like him but I like another guy too, then wouldn't that make him 'shut down' like you say idolatrie?

Gosh, sorry I don't think that makes sense haha but I hope you get the gist of my predicament. Haha thanks

Fuck. Get with the SLE. It's simple. Forget this guy. If he's fucking around like this, he might not even be Se creative. Ignore him.

[07490]

Jesus, that's high manteinance.

Really, suprisingly I think that is incredibile low maintenace, I hope she doesn't Kill a man's wallet tho...

[idolatrie]

Jesus, that's high manteinance.

Aww, and here I was thinking we were Meant To Be.

Actually, hmm, that is a little discouraging because I now think the guy who I am doing the whole jealousy thing with is LIE (I've cycled through many possible types for him, I find him very hard to type). I kind of figured that whatever games we were playing weren't getting us anywhere anyway, so um...yeah. *shrugs* What can I say, I'm trying to get over him, he's a good friends and that should be enough. (And yes, I am trying to convince myself of that, haha.)

What if they never talk to you?! They don't even look you in the eyes when you are looking right at them?
Does this mean that they absolutely hate you or that they like you? haha.

But a couple of days ago, I talked to them online, and they were really flirty and like tried to wind me up, which seems like the aggressor approach to romance...and a couple of weeks ago his friends told me he liked me but that was before he started to ignore me. Lol.

So how am I meant to respond!? I do like him but then I like this IEI & SLE too (my head is totally wacked out!). I want to get to know him better so then I can make up my mind as to which I want to be with... so I don't want to be all like -I want you- because then it's like I am obligated to be with him! But I just want him to like relax because I do think he's awesome and for him to not feel like shy around me and how do I do this without letting him know I like him? Because I think the whole reason he is like this way is because he is afraid I don't like him. But then if I tell him I do like him but I like another guy too, then wouldn't that make him 'shut down' like you say idolatrie?

Gosh, sorry I don't think that makes sense haha but I hope you get the gist of my predicament. Haha thanks

The not looking at you thing could be a sign of liking you (as opposed to lusting after you, because then they'd just rake you up and down with their eyes and make damn sure you know they're looking at you). It could be anything though, I wouldn't use it as a positive indicator.

If an LSI thinks you're playing around with them, keeping your options open, if you will, then I think they'd not want any part of that. Games are something you engage in with your potential partner, not the competition. If you're juggling three guys, and the LSI finds out about it, well, that could possibly just be the end of it for him. I'm not saying that's definitely the case, just that I can't see that situation being something I'd appreciate. I'd just move on.

If his friends told you that he liked you, then he probably liked you then. And that's not an LSI insight, that's just you know, how people behave? Seriously, I think you need to work out which guy you want. I'm fairly certain both beta ST types don't appreciate someone fucking around with their feelings. So you don't want to lose both opportunities. And I mean, who knows what will happen, you may date other people in the meantime, and sometime later you may find yourself with the opportunity to date someone you knew before. Just go for whoever you want most now. If you feel that settling for him ahead of the other two right now would be an obligation, do yourself a favour and don't? Because that sounds like a recipe for disaster. He's not going to not want to be your friend just because you're dating someone else, even if he liked you at one point. Well, unless he's an immature asswipe who can only think with his dick, in which case you're better off anyway.

LSIs need time to build their comfort level in someone else's presence. So even though you may think he's awesome, and even if he thinks you're the best thing since sliced bread, it'll still take time for things to become comfortable. Just be yourself and let things develop organically, and the LSI will notice if you're there for him and just a great person to be around. Trying to force things with LSIs won't work, in my opinion.

By 'shut down' I meant that if I find out a guy has a girlfriend, I wouldn't try to pursue him in terms of starting a romantic relationship. I definitely wouldn't shut someone out of my life or out as a friend if I found out they were attached and I had at some point been attracted to them. I mean, I think it is more about compartmentalising and wanting to label things. Clarifying things. And then a guy with a girlfriend goes into the 'friends' category rather than the 'potentials' category. I'm pretty certain the male LSI I know best thinks the same way. We're stupidly traditional kind of people.

Really, suprisingly I think that is incredibile low maintenace, I hope she doesn't Kill a man's wallet tho...

Dude, I pay my own fucking way.

[07490]

Aww, and here I was thinking we were Meant To Be.

Actually, hmm, that is a little discouraging because I now think the guy who I am doing the whole jealousy thing with is LIE (I've cycled through many possible types for him, I find him very hard to type). I kind of figured that whatever games we were playing weren't getting us anywhere anyway, so um...yeah. *shrugs* What can I say, I'm trying to get over him, he's a good friends and that should be enough. (And yes, I am trying to convince myself of that, haha.)

Why dont you just fucking date me and give it a try, I here by ask you for a date in front of the 16 types forum members YES OR NO?

[Satan]

Why dont you just fucking date me and give it a try, I here by ask you for a date in front of the 16 types forum members YES OR NO?

I hear he gives good back rubs.

[Satan]

What if they never talk to you?! They don't even look you in the eyes when you are looking right at them?
Does this mean that they absolutely hate you or that they like you? haha.

Heh, I just caught on that I've been accused of this behaviour. And usually it's meant that someone's looking at me from too far away. When I'm busy etc.

But a couple of days ago, I talked to them online, and they were really flirty and like tried to wind me up, which seems like the aggressor approach to romance...and a couple of weeks ago his friends told me he liked me but that was before he started to ignore me. Lol.

Come on, flirting online doesn't mean anything. It's just playing.

So how am I meant to respond!? I do like him but then I like this IEI & SLE too (my head is totally wacked out!). I want to get to know him better so then I can make up my mind as to which I want to be with... so I don't want to be all like -I want you- because then it's like I am obligated to be with him! But I just want him to like relax because I do think he's awesome and for him to not feel like shy around me and how do I do this without letting him know I like him? Because I think the whole reason he is like this way is because he is afraid I don't like him. But then if I tell him I do like him but I like another guy too, then wouldn't that make him 'shut down' like you say idolatrie?

Bah, just be dynamic. Who cares if your feelings are all over the place. Gush.

Gosh, sorry I don't think that makes sense haha but I hope you get the gist of my predicament. Haha thanks

Externalise it.

[07490]

I hear he gives good back rubs.

and a harvard grad, a millionaire, had IQ of 150 when I was 15 and I am crazy too. spend countless hours in a mental institute.

[Satan]

Aww, and here I was thinking we were Meant To Be.

Actually, hmm, that is a little discouraging because I now think the guy who I am doing the whole jealousy thing with is LIE (I've cycled through many possible types for him, I find him very hard to type). I kind of figured that whatever games we were playing weren't getting us anywhere anyway, so um...yeah. *shrugs* What can I say, I'm trying to get over him, he's a good friends and that should be enough. (And yes, I am trying to convince myself of that, haha.)

RATIONALISATION.

The not looking at you thing could be a sign of liking you (as opposed to lusting after you, because then they'd just rake you up and down with their eyes and make damn sure you know they're looking at you). It could be anything though, I wouldn't use it as a positive indicator.

Hah, the look down then up thing that precedes most immediate interactions.
I wasn't checking her out, never! I was just seeing if she was all in one piece....

If an LSI thinks you're playing around with them, keeping your options open, if you will, then I think they'd not want any part of that. Games are something you engage in with your potential partner, not the competition. If you're juggling three guys, and the LSI finds out about it, well, that could possibly just be the end of it for him. I'm not saying that's definitely the case, just that I can't see that situation being something I'd appreciate. I'd just move on.

What if you really liked the guy?

[quote]
If his friends told you that he liked you, then he probably liked you then. And that's not an LSI insight, that's just you know, how people behave? Seriously, I think you need to work out which guy you want. I'm fairly certain both beta ST types don't appreciate someone fucking around with their feelings. So you don't want to lose both opportunities. And I mean, who knows what will happen, you may date other people in the meantime, and sometime later you may find yourself with the opportunity to date someone you knew before. Just go for whoever you want most now. If you
[quote]

Isn't life grand.

feel that settling for him ahead of the other two right now would be an obligation, do yourself a favour and don't? Because that sounds like a recipe for disaster. He's not going to not want to be your friend just because you're dating someone else, even if he liked you at one point. Well, unless he's an immature asswipe who can only think with his dick, in which case you're better off anyway.

Haha nice and simple.

LSIs need time to build their comfort level in someone else's presence. So even though you may think he's awesome, and even if he thinks you're the best thing since sliced bread, it'll still take time for things to become comfortable. Just be yourself and let things develop organically, and the LSI will notice if you're there for him and just a great person to be around. Trying to force things with LSIs won't work, in my opinion.

By 'shut down' I meant that if I find out a guy has a girlfriend, I wouldn't try to pursue him in terms of starting a romantic relationship. I definitely wouldn't shut someone out of my life or out as a friend if I found out they were attached and I had at some point been attracted to them. I mean, I think it is more about compartmentalising and wanting to label things. Clarifying things. And then a guy with a girlfriend goes into the 'friends' category rather than the 'potentials' category. I'm pretty certain the male LSI I know best thinks the same way. We're stupidly traditional kind of people.

Oh shit is that meant to be how it works.

I find if girls I like have boyfriends it doesn't seem to change the way I feel at all. Although it seems to often make me think less of the guy.

I wonder if that's a guys versus girls thing. Because like in general, guys don't seem to feel less attraction to attached girls. They may have boundaries etc. That doesn't mean the feelings change though. And if that guy was to have an accident. Would that be a positive or negative thing. The mind boggles.

Dude, I pay my own fucking way.

Oh wow! Actually most girls I know seem that way inclined. I'm not sure why. It's not a strong value of mine.

Anyway, idol. You don't seem screwed up. And you seem realistic/pragmatic etc. I don't really know if that's a type thing. Most girls have severe psychological issues that they try and hide for a while. Maybe you're healthy. Or maybe you're hiding

[Satan]

and a harvard grad, a millionaire, had IQ of 150 when I was 15 and I am crazy too. spend countless hours in a mental institute.

Crazy the delusions those schizophrenics get. They must be making up for something.

[Satan]

But hey numbers is probably better than me. I get girls numbers, then don't ring. I likes girls with boyfriends better than single girls. I don't like text messages. I think you shouldn't ring a girl more than every 2 or 3 days, nor see her more than 4 days a week. I don't dress special to meet, or spend time with girls. I flirt for fun, rather than profit. I used to drink every day and now just drink about 3 or 4 nights a week. I like winding up girls to see them react. I don't compliment much, unless I haven't seen someone in a while. I don't have a clear plan of what I'm up to in the next two or three hours let alone two or three days, let alone two or three weeks. I hate it when girls ask for anything, a favour, a compliment, a hug, or what I've been up to.

But hey, I'm still going to dis Numbers. He's asking girls out in front of lots of people, when he doesn't even know them. He's just seen them around. In some hope that maybe one will be desperate and needy enough to say "yes"..

[07490]

But hey, I'm still going to dis Numbers. He's asking girls out in front of lots of people, when he doesn't even know them. He's just seen them around. In some hope that maybe one will be desperate and needy enough to say "yes"..

I was waiting her to PM me last night, she did not. end of story. I will never date her and i am only hanging on that slight chance taht she is desperate enough to ask me out. you are exactly right. but hey like you said, you diss me but i am still better than you YOU and YOU///

[Satan]

I was waiting her to PM me last night, she did not. end of story. I will never date her and i am only hanging on that slight chance taht she is desperate enough to ask me out. you are exactly right. but hey like you said, you diss me but i am still better than you YOU and YOU///

Well fuck, I don't know. I don't care. There's only (counts) two girls I like at the moment.

And I find girls only go as far as hinting for you to ask them out. And that turns me off.

So hey,

What am I to do. One doesn't talk much. One talks more. One has a boyfriend. One hasn't said anything either way.

I've never really been that self-revealing with either of them. One of them has told me a bit more about herself. But the other one, is more "matched" to how much I'm self-revealing.

Anyway, all that's pretty lame.

You know, numbers, most girls I've had good connections with. They've mirrored a lot. They've been easy to talk with. But even with that, still, sooner or later I decide they're not right.

And something about finding out people aren't right makes it harder to seek. Like... once you get to know people... you realise you're not right for each other.

And for a long time people have teased me about discounting girls for the most trivial reasons. But no-one gets it. There's a perfect girl out there for me somewhere. And my heart will continue to seek. And both these girls I currently like don't meet my previous criteria for what kinds of girls I like. Neither of them is right to my "system" but something draws me in. Something keeps me wanting more.

And really what are you meant to say when you're not even sure about what kind of girl you like, and you end up liking girls that are different from what you're meant to like.

But hey, somewhere along the way. I realised that I don't even put much enthusiasm into asking girls out. I just play along, shifting the conversation, and then there's this sudden large jump from them, like they're deciding which way to go. And then they come up with excuses. Anyway, I'm thinking at the moment that something's probably off in my approach. But then I'm like hangon - when girls are keen there's kind of a similar intensity jump in the other direction. And it's like... well ... it's actually them reacting more than me.... it's like to me a little thing.. but to them a big thing.

Anyway, so like then I remember back to girls from the past and it's like, they've all needed convincing in a way. They've all put up resistance. They've all made it harder. Given bad excuses etc.

And it's like, a test in a way. Do you really want to go through with this, or are you just bored. And it's probably harder for me, because it's like, "is he serious", anyway. Like when you first get to know a girl, I find most of them have this kind of "stranger anxiety" and in a way you just have to get past that.

In the past I've often just kind of talked about meeting strangers, and how you can not know what to make of them. And you're operating off such limited information blah blah... but it's like in a way, girls often have fears about guys they don't know. Thing is when you get to know them, it's like you already know them, why would you suddenly want to spend time with them.

Anyway, I think that you can't really trivialise these things too much. And like you may want a girl to just jump at the chance to go out with you. But if you want her to jump, why do you want her to jump so badly. She'll just read that you're horny and you want sex. Or if you want to take them out for dinner. You're paying for dinner, and then you're going to expect sex. So you're trying to buy sex off them like they're a prostitute etc. So in a way., just getting away from them being a prostitute. You just wanting to have sex with them, and turning it into something else... can "ease" the initial stages. There's a few ways to go. Some is that they're trying to pick you up through their actions... like they're hitting on you. And just overread into everything until they get flustured. Or you can be like I'll take you out for dinner, and you can come back to my place afterwards, and I'll put on some nice music, light a few candles, and we can cuddle up together. (which of course reads exactly like you want to fuck her, but you're being honest about your intentions at least, and not calling her a whore for it Umm, and let's see another.. ummm.. you can play the friends angle... but like, act as more than friends, and I get a little carried away. And then whenever she gets carried away just be like "we're friends" until there's like a fuck-it attitude, like we can't be friends.

Okay, there you go. A few angles.

Hanging onto slight chances.. shit how thin's that thread... how much do you weigh.. will it hold you... you're not a chicken are you?

[idolatrie]

RATIONALISATION.

Ugh, tell me about it. I'm just kind of fucked up over this guy.

What if you really liked the guy?

It's not really about how much I like the guy in that situation - I think the requirement to be wanted back would supersede most things. It's kind of like...I want him to want me most, above all other girls, and that's a total requirement, what I feel comes second to that. So yeah, I'd compete in the sense that I'd make him see that I'm the option he wants, but the onus is still on the other party to make the decision, and I'm not going to wait around if I think I'm not going to win.

Oh shit is that meant to be how it works.

I find if girls I like have boyfriends it doesn't seem to change the way I feel at all. Although it seems to often make me think less of the guy.

I wonder if that's a guys versus girls thing. Because like in general, guys don't seem to feel less attraction to attached girls. They may have boundaries etc. That doesn't mean the feelings change though. And if that guy was to have an accident. Would that be a positive or negative thing. The mind boggles.

I think it is probably more a SLE v LSI thing. One SLE guy I know doesn't care at all about the relationship status of the girl he's after, his only concern is whether she's into him. The LSI guy I know probably shares my values. I'm not disparaging your/the SLE approach, because my general attitude is that it's really the problem of the party that's already in the relationship. I just wouldn't want to be part of anything that involved breaking up an existing relationship - I think part of it would be the fear that if they did it before, they can do it again, and thus it means they hold the relationship in a lesser light than you do. Whether that is true or not. I don't know. It just seems morally wrong for me personally. If they were to break up, that's totally different, I think they'd be fair game again.

Oh wow! Actually most girls I know seem that way inclined. I'm not sure why. It's not a strong value of mine.

Anyway, idol. You don't seem screwed up. And you seem realistic/pragmatic etc. I don't really know if that's a type thing. Most girls have severe psychological issues that they try and hide for a while. Maybe you're healthy. Or maybe you're hiding

I just resent any suggestion or implication that I'm a gold-digging whore, because, you know, that's insulting. I pretty much try to make sure we spend the same amount, money-wise, when I date guys.

Haha, I think it's because my issues are probably less typically girly or whatever. But I mean, I think guys do get intimidated by the fact that I'm not needy and I'm not going to pretend to be vulnerable and in need of their protection.

[Satan]

also... 'nother trick you can do, is if she seems like she's going to reject you.. .and she's thinking too m uch, just be like "it looks liek you're not interested", "was just extending an invitation" etc et.c. and save her from having to make excuses or anything.. and her interest may rise... cos she still has to justify why she wasn't interested... and then if her focus stays on for a while, and nothing else comes up to raise her mood, then she may apologise, and the door may open...

good luck numbers...

[idolatrie]

And for a long time people have teased me about discounting girls for the most trivial reasons. But no-one gets it. There's a perfect girl out there for me somewhere. And my heart will continue to seek. And both these girls I currently like don't meet my previous criteria for what kinds of girls I like. Neither of them is right to my "system" but something draws me in. Something keeps me wanting more.

EXACTLY. See, this is why beneath their hardass exteriors, beta STs are really just romantics. Actually, the SLE guy I know was pretty much the biggest sleaze I've ever met who was notorious for hitting on every girl he met (and sleeping with enough of them). He'd pretty much take out a different girl every night, and parties like crazy. He just recently started a serious relationship with this chick, and they are like ridiculously, stupidly good together. I really liked her when I met her, I think she's perfect for him, and it's like...for all the fact he's a massive player, I mean, it worked out for him, he found the right girl for him. OK, that anecdote was kind of random. Um.

Anyway, I think that you can't really trivialise these things too much. And like you may want a girl to just jump at the chance to go out with you. But if you want her to jump, why do you want her to jump so badly. She'll just read that you're horny and you want sex. Or if you want to take them out for dinner. You're paying for dinner, and then you're going to expect sex. So you're trying to buy sex off them like they're a prostitute etc. So in a way., just getting away from them being a prostitute. You just wanting to have sex with them, and turning it into something else... can "ease" the initial stages. There's a few ways to go. Some is that they're trying to pick you up through their actions... like they're hitting on you. And just overread into everything until they get flustured. Or you can be like I'll take you out for dinner, and you can come back to my place afterwards, and I'll put on some nice music, light a few candles, and we can cuddle up together. (which of course reads exactly like you want to fuck her, but you're being honest about your intentions at least, and not calling her a whore for it

AHAHA holy crap Merky, that's pretty much exactly my thought processes. Which is why I insist on switching off on who pays if I date a guy more than once - to avoid that whole obligation to have sex because they think they're entitled to it after paying for your meal thing. I've been told that other people don't actually think paying for something = obligation to have sex, but frankly, I don't believe it. Better to neutralise that expectation.

[07490]

Haha, I think it's because my issues are probably less typically girly or whatever. But I mean, I think guys do get intimidated by the fact that I'm not needy and I'm not going to pretend to be vulnerable and in need of their protection.

THis is the best best trait Woman can have. Girls who pretend vulerable are so turn off to me. it is not even funny.