Extending support/sympathy and Fi PoLR of SLE-ESTp

[Ezra]

Even though I wrote it, I disagree that "even when an individual expresses negative emotions, SLEs are unable to offer the support needed; they feel uncomfortable and confused in these situations and, as a result of this, SLEs react in a way which is unhelpful to the individual" (Source).

My best friend's dad just died, and I gave him as much support as I could over the phone. I thought it was pretty decent, and he probably did too, based on what I could plausibly offer. I didn't feel confused or uncomfortable.

[strrrng]

I was in a situation of a similar nature before with my ESTp friend. He seemed a bit awkward gauging the underlying emotional context, but I could still tell that he was genuine, and he made an effort to help, regardless. I just think those kinds of things come a bit more naturally to "F" types, whether it's an Fe ego easing into the dynamic to assuage the person, or an Fi ego gauging the person's inner state and going from there. But any insightful person who cares about you will usually [try to] find a means to express their concern.

[smccosker]

i had a friend whos uncle died and he was crying. i empathized with him and said how my dad died when i was little and i know how hard it is but thta hell get through it. he knew i cared and he immediately became happier and we went to hang out for a little bit i let him talk and say whatever he wanted to talk about and whatever we became more close we were more aqquaintances at that point. that brought us closer together as people, baring our souls and sharing our hurt helping each other become stronger, knowing there are caring thoughtful people out there for you

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

awe Sean, we're both epic gay male shamans. <3 <3 <3

Yeah I agree you're tough yet sensitive.

[betterthan]

Yeah I agree you're tough yet sensitive.

aw, yeah that's one of my favourite bits. Someone wrote something really awesome, here, sorry if it's you and I forgot, but it went something like -'ESTps have a soft and vulnerable heart while INFps hearts are strong - from the outside it seems the opposite' - aw, I do think that is quite true. Aw ESTps are so cute.. (GOD, how annoying! )

[Ezra]

awe Sean, we're both epic gay male shamans. <3 <3 <3

Yeah I agree you're tough yet sensitive.

AHA!

Yeah, I think he is the opposite of me - he'd cave my head in if I started because I am like that little girl from this video, but at the same time, I'm a heartless, empty bastard. Or my shell is just a motherfucker of a shell.

[Ezra]

aw, yeah that's one of my favourite bits. Someone wrote something really awesome, here, sorry if it's you and I forgot, but it went something like -'ESTps have a soft and vulnerable heart while INFps hearts are strong - from the outside it seems the opposite' - aw, I do think that is quite true. Aw ESTps are so cute.. (GOD, how annoying! )

Very similar to the Eight-Four dynamic, actually, in the Enneagram. It's said that Eights are Fours turned inside out. Eights are like scared little kids on the inside, who on the outside are tough as hell. Fours are whiney bastards on the outside, but are tough as nails on the inside - they can take so much shit.

[strrrng]

Very similar to the Eight-Four dynamic, actually, in the Enneagram. It's said that Eights are Fours turned inside out. Eights are like scared little kids on the inside, who on the outside are tough as hell. Fours are whiney bastards on the outside, but are tough as nails on the inside - they can take so much shit.

forrall... so you remember that thread, lol. 4s bask in the emptiness that 8s pretend doesn't exist.

[Satan]

forrall... so you remember that thread, lol. 4s bask in the emptiness that 8s pretend doesn't exist.

what emptiness.

[Ezra]

forrall... so you remember that thread, lol. 4s bask in the emptiness that 8s pretend doesn't exist.

You ever played Bioshock? 1:08 onwards - this is the effect Fours have on Eights:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WS_yjJnoMfc

[strrrng]

That's interesting, Ezra (and yes, I have played that game). So, you think 4s serve as a purification of sorts for 8s? That we somehow infest them and tap into the inner weakness in a way that doesn't vitiate them? I would think that a lot of times, 8s would reject these attempts, resulting in the 4 being hurt, and the 8 perpetuating their control cycle. I've always found 7s to be pretty accessible to that inner probing, if a bit reticent at first.

@merky: you'll know it when you look inside

[Satan]

@merky: you'll know it when you look inside

how do you look inside

[redbaron]

what emptiness.

[redbaron]

how do you look inside

Merks, you need to find yourself an IEI to help you with these things...

[Satan]

Merks, you need to find yourself an IEI to help you with these things...

shush

no iei's are knocking at my door

[redbaron]

shush

no iei's are knocking at my door

patience, my dear.

[Satan]

patience, my dear.

i'm bored.

i've acgtually found that waiting doesnt' really acheive anything. it's better to come across as a fool, then to not come across as anything at all.

i remember when i was young, that people used to try and verbally abuse me, and it wouldn't do anything at all, then they'd start seemingly getting unsure of themselves.

if someone is "mean" to you and you walk up towards them, they can get defensive etc.

then other people advised me that they wouldn't like other people talking to them that way, so i'd "feign" being hurt etc... i find smoetmies if you feign being hurt, people will apologise, but if you just take it, then sometimes people will just continue.

mind you when i used to get into fights i never felt any pain. other people would try and talk about how it made others feel, and i just couldn't relate.

i'd trivialise others pain because i coludn't feel the same way. and then when i tried to say it wasn't a big deal, i'd say they were faking/pretending/b/lah blah, they were wusses weak etc .. and that they should "take it like a man', but then people would try and point out that i wasn't a man.

blah blah, i'm just trying to get by, i can't be bothered with bullshit, i don't like conversations blah blah .. . i don't want to talk about how i've hurt others, or the effects my actiosn have on others. i don't want to take responsiblity for my actions. i'm not going to behave. i'm not going to apologise. i don't give a shit about you. it's your problem. i don't care go away leave me alone. heh. i'm just playing.

things go up things go town. the wrorld turns around. the sun rises, and falls day by day. when clouds form there could be rain. when the wind blows, leaves blow around.

life.

[redbaron]

awww, merks, do you consider yourself an enneagram 8? just wondering.

[07490]

Very similar to the Eight-Four dynamic, actually, in the Enneagram. It's said that Eights are Fours turned inside out. Eights are like scared little kids on the inside, who on the outside are tough as hell. Fours are whiney bastards on the outside, but are tough as nails on the inside - they can take so much shit.

That's interesting, Ezra (and yes, I have played that game). So, you think 4s serve as a purification of sorts for 8s? That we somehow infest them and tap into the inner weakness in a way that doesn't vitiate them? I would think that a lot of times, 8s would reject these attempts, resulting in the 4 being hurt, and the 8 perpetuating their control cycle. I've always found 7s to be pretty accessible to that inner probing, if a bit reticent at first.

@merky: you'll know it when you look inside

This is interesting, I ask three INFp E-four and even though they've been stomp on in reality, THey told me they have never cry, or at least dont remember last time they have cried. Contrary to maybe 3wing 4 we cried alot haha.

[smccosker]

I cry extremely rarely....most of the time i want to so bad but nothing comes out. I just feel immense amounts of pain and my face turns to stone

[Satan]

awww, merks, do you consider yourself an enneagram 8? just wondering.

Well, fuck I don't know.

I in a way feel like I'm on my own even with other people around. Some people seem to get the impression that I'm indepedant enough that it can be "scary" and that I don't have good boundaries.

Some people seem to get a little bit apprehensive in my presence, and can get a little guarded. Sometimes, it's like even with people I know, there'll be a kind of "show of opposition" when they see me. And it's like, sometimes I can kind of act oblivious to all the issues people have with me. They can feel like their complaints fall of deaf ears. And when I do best, I generally have someone thtat "problems" can come through, because I don't listen to everyone. I don't take everyone seriously. Some people get the feeling that they don't exist to me, and don't feel like they can say or do anything to make themselves significant.

Sometimes, when I'm really intense it's like some people just go quiet/dead, and they kind of opt out of saying or doing anything. And it's like in a way I need people to keep other people open/alive etc. When I try myself, sometimes, it's like people get kind of rushed/agitated and find me "too much" and don't feel comfortable with me.

Some people say that I'm unnaturally confident. And that I'm so confident that there must be something off or wrong about me. They don't understand how someone can be as confident as me with all the "problems" in the the world. And get the feeling that I'm kind of blind/narrow minded. And that the reason I'm so confident is because nothing matters to me. And then they can get the feeling that they don't matter to me, and that I will abuse/use them. And that they shouldn't trust me. This usually seems to be worse with people who have been burnt by people who they should be able to trust in the past.

At the same time I'm not really image-conscious. And I don't care how I come across to others. Some people seem to appreciate this, as it can kind of make them not worry as much about how they're coming across. But some people can kind of feel like I'm going to create a bad impression. That I can't behave myself. That I'm an accident waiting to happen.

Sometimes it's like people just starting turning their heads when I walk by. And in the past it's pointed out that doesn't happen with everyone. And that I can kind of draw attention. But some people can kind of see this as a kind of arrogance. And some people can kind of seem to feel left out or something, and kind of see me as stealing attention from them.

Now days I don't know, I'm kind of weak. What do people make of me?

Well, where shall we start. Some people seem to feel a litlte overloaded/overwhelmed by me. Some people seem to kind of want to get away. Sometimes when it's like this people can kind of pass along that I won't be around for long, that it's transient etc. But when I'm between places, some people seem to get a bit disorientated, and some people seem to pick up that at times people will suddenly stop doing things when I'm around or otherwise act weird. At times in the past, it's like I've walked into a room or something, and someone's dropped something or other, or it's like they seem to freak out, and lose their grip a bit. I wouldn't think it's about me except like sometimes, even though I'm not that big some kids kind of hide behind their parents, some people want to cling someone else etc. In a way because it's transient it's okay. But it's like sometimes, I really don't know if it's about me or not, but whether or not sometimes people can blame me. And some people seem to get kind of nervous in my presence.

It's like in a way, it's been pointed out to me in the past, but sometimes it's like I kind of amplify peoples feelings. And once they get used to that, and realise that they're just becoming aware of things that they're not normally aware of but that nothing is necessarily changing it can be kind of okay.

But it's like sometimes, say someone's pissed off about something, it's like whilst they're pissed off, and I'm around sometimes it's like they seem to struggle to contain their feelings. And because of that at times, people can kind of somehow take their feelings about other things out on me, or displace thigns or whatever. At the same time, some people seem to kind of run at the mouth a bit, and take a while to realise they're doing such. But it's like I'm okay with that anyway.

blah blah

Anyway where am I going. How do people perceive me. Well lots of strangers seem to think I'm "cool" that I'm not like other people. That I'm different. And some people are more okay with that than others.

In a way it's like, some people will make snap judgements. Say that I'm arrogant, that I'm cocky. That I'm bluffing. That I'm blunt. That I'm too direct. That I'm insensitive. That I put people on edge.

But generally as people get to know me, they're quick to respond to me. They get more comfortable with me.

Sometimes, with strangers, it's like it depends on the group a lot. And it's like sometimes, I'll even splt groups. And it's like people can split into opposing oppinions. But it's like in a way, people often notice me and start to form opionions rather than just passing over me.

Some people seem to just apologise to me, and think they've done something wrong. Some people seem to kind of be "nicer" to me than to other people. But like some people kind of don't even look at me, and seem to struggle to make eye contact, and can't even look at me.

Often people who do look at me initially are more confident, and in a group of people, it's like often the most confident of them, will be the "most able" to make eye contact with me etc. But I often work on the "least able".

lah lah

Now I'm sounding a bit egotistical. In a way it's ilke harder to compare myself to other people. Like I haven't really been in any kind of group in a long time.

Most individuals I know, we walk close together, and quickly. When I compare to other people around, it's like there's a faster speed than nearly everyone else. Enough so, that if people are walking faster than me, I often get suspicious.

Some people say that I'm always on a mission. People have said at times that I'm like a machine. That I'm inhuman. That I don't have feelings blah blah. A lot of people seem to get the impression, even when I'm not moving that I have energy. and at times when I'm actually low in energy, some people will assume that something is wrong. Ditto if I don't talk.

Some people like to point out that I can be a bit of a loose cannon, that I'm a bit crazy, a bit deranged. But now days I usually try to keep a low profile.

I think part of this is because some people seem to find it hard to read where my boundaries or limits are. And it's like because of that I think some people can kind of feel a bit violated around me. Also on top of that, except for friends, and people who "allow me" I actually like to keep a bit bigger gap between me and other people than most people.

So it's like that can kind of create a gap. But some people seem to pick up on that, and they do something or other that makes me come closer than most people other people seem to communicate, so it's I'm kind of closer or further than most people are used to. And to me psychological distance is quite important.

It's been remarked in the past that I can actually keep quite a close distance with quite a few people. And it's like this has been pointed out by people who "value closeness" and then they can often actually say how *hard* it is to keep close connections even though to me, it's like other people actually generally how close to stay with me, and some people will suddenly step backwards in interactions with me.

Now what else can I say. I'm small, but kind of intense, but like I can kind of not talk too. But one thing some people seem to actually pick up on is that I value people being responsive to me. And it's like i hate delays, especially for pathetic reasons. Some people say they wouldn't wnat to keep me waiting. But at the same time, I don't want to keep other people waiting either. But like as far as responsiveness goes, I can enjoy back and forth banter about meaningless shit just to show rapid responsiveness. But like I don't really need words. So like some people will kind of not talk, and I'll still pick up on them. Although that discomforts some people, because they pick up on how I can be kind of hyper aware of their actions.

And so it's like at times I can kind of quickly notice a shift in them or something, and respond without them saying anything. But like as long as people relax and don't make sudden changes/switches, I don't jump on them.

blah blah rant rant... still i have no idea. verbal outpour.

[strrrng]

lol <3 merky's rants

awww, merks, do you consider yourself an enneagram 8? just wondering.

7w8 ftw

[redbaron]

no kidding, verbal outpour. merks, you are an interesting person.

@ nick--7w8, I think I agree with that.

[Gilly]

Hmm, I might say 8w7>7w8.

That is very interesting, though, merky. It's abundantly clear that you are SeTi to the max

[betterthan]

I cry extremely rarely....most of the time i want to so bad but nothing comes out. I just feel immense amounts of pain and my face turns to stone

Aww, I have seen this reaction in a couple of ESTps before, it makes me insane =/! They go still, and it looks like they have turned numb, but their eyes ae burning. You will be in the same room as them & it feels like the worst feeling possible is trapped inside of you.

[smccosker]

Aww, I have seen this reaction in a couple of ESTps before, it makes me insane =/! They go still, and it looks like they have turned numb, but their eyes ae burning. You will be in the same room as them & it feels like the worst feeling possible is trapped inside of you.

Try feeling this way around an ESFP...felt like hell. Whenever I felt bad it was projected back at me and it was 10x worse

[Satan]

no kidding, verbal outpour. merks, you are an interesting person.

@ nick--7w8, I think I agree with that.

blah,.

[Ezra]

That's interesting, Ezra (and yes, I have played that game). So, you think 4s serve as a purification of sorts for 8s? That we somehow infest them and tap into the inner weakness in a way that doesn't vitiate them? I would think that a lot of times, 8s would reject these attempts, resulting in the 4 being hurt, and the 8 perpetuating their control cycle.

Well, the Eight is Four is Eight. So I think they have a great effect on each, personally. Have you ever read Palmer's version of a Four-Eight relationship? Quite possibly the best.

7w8 ftw

Hmm, I might say 8w7>7w8.

I have him down as 7w8 on my E-userlist, but then I read this, and I saw a fair bit of myself in it, and I think that if Fabio read it, he wouldn't see much of himself in mercutio.

I think 8w7.

[DEAD]

Not meaning to bum this extremely old thread on purpose, but I have some thoughts to add:

I cry extremely rarely....most of the time i want to so bad but nothing comes out. I just feel immense amounts of pain and my face turns to stone

Aww, I have seen this reaction in a couple of ESTps before, it makes me insane =/! They go still, and it looks like they have turned numb, but their eyes ae burning. You will be in the same room as them & it feels like the worst feeling possible is trapped inside of you.

Yes, I like to call what is being described here as: "emotional constipation" and it happens to me a lot. I think that it tends to happen to low Fx valuers in general but in different ways. I'd say that Fe PoLr can have "emotional outbursts" more in the form of neglecting Fe > (expression) and letting it all out over the "numbness" from neglecting Fi > (inward feelings) in comparison.