Long term effects from intertype relations

[Tigerfadder]

Relations can change people, everyone influences everyone. In a way our friends and family is a part of you and you of them. When entering a long term relation there might be long term effects on you.

It seems to be that the supervisee neglect their role element. When this happens they lose a lot of charm they used to be. What I have observed is when LIE is neglecting their Fe element after being in a long term relation, a close one, with the SLI. LIE adopt the SLI's view of Fe and start to neglect this part of themselves more and more. The role element does play a huge role in how society perceive you and it is a big loss in my opinion. What have you observed? Is there such a thing as "long term effects" from ITR?

[Adam Strange]

Relations can change people, everyone influences everyone. In a way our friends and family is a part of you and you of them. When entering a long term relation there might be long term effects on you.

It seems to be that the supervisee neglect their role element. When this happens they lose a lot of charm they used to be. What I have observed is when LIE is neglecting their Fe element after being in a long term relation, a close one, with the SLI. LIE adopt the SLI's view of Fe and start to neglect this part of themselves more and more. The role element does play a huge role in how society perceive you and it is a big loss in my opinion. What have you observed? Is there such a thing as "long term effects" from ITR?

As an LIE who just got out of a LTR with an SLI, I sure as hell hope not.

[Adam Strange]

Relations can change people, everyone influences everyone. In a way our friends and family is a part of you and you of them. When entering a long term relation there might be long term effects on you.

It seems to be that the supervisee neglect their role element. When this happens they lose a lot of charm they used to be. What I have observed is when LIE is neglecting their Fe element after being in a long term relation, a close one, with the SLI. LIE adopt the SLI's view of Fe and start to neglect this part of themselves more and more. The role element does play a huge role in how society perceive you and it is a big loss in my opinion. What have you observed? Is there such a thing as "long term effects" from ITR?

Actually, this deserves a better answer.

I'm an LIE, and my parents are LSE (Kindred) and SLI (Supervisor), sister is LSE and LII, so I was immersed in Thinking culture. When I started dating, I fell in love with an LSI (Ti, Se, Ni, Fe), which I see as basically a thinking version of my dual ESI (Fi, Se, Ni, Te), but something was off, so I didn't marry her.
I did marry an SLI (same as my SLI father, but a Te-subtype, so more like a mirror, really). She wasn't that warm, but when you grow up in a Thinking environment, chilly is normal. Plus, we made a great team for accomplishing things. If there are long term effects from ITR, they are manifest in what you become used to.

The one thing I miss about my SLI ex is her Si, but I've since realized that I can hire that in the form of interior decorators, whom I don't have to live with.
I should add that I don't think I've lost my Role function of Fe. The last LSI was attracted to me precisely because she saw that I stepped up and helped out a person in a group who needed help but who was basically a stranger, when no one else would help them. The reason the relationship lasted a year was because I purposely worked on demonstrating Fe to her.

Studies show that identical twins, raised in radically different households, leave those households with the opinions and tastes of those households, but as time goes on, they gradually drift from those values and become more like each other, even to the point of working in similar jobs, living in houses that look alike, having wives who look alike, etc.

I have been doing a random walk since I left Deltaville. It is interesting to list the women I've dated, in MBTI terms.

ISTP (LSI)
ISTJ (SLI)
INFJ (IEI)
INFP (EII)
INTP (LII)
INTJ (ILI)
INFJ (IEI)
ISTP (LSI)

I could tell you the pluses and minuses of each type, as I see them, but what is relevant here is a sense of confusion, of not knowing instantly what I want, which I see as being a result of the strong alienation from my natural preferences which has been my environment for most of my life.

What I found with the last LSI is an incredible warmth and sense of belonging, mutual respect and affection, and an easy manner of interacting, which I attribute to her sharing two functions with my dual (and her being a terrific person). Unfortunately, her other two functions are those of my Extinguishment partner, so that part doesn't really work.

However, I think I'm getting closer to my goal of meeting my own needs, and not those of my parents. I think the process is slow but inevitable. ("About time, you moron", says Adam to himself.)

[Suz]

Actually, this deserves a better answer.

I'm an LIE, and my parents are LSE (Kindred) and SLI (Supervisor), sister is LSE and LII, so I was immersed in Thinking culture. When I started dating, I fell in love with an LSI (Ti, Se, Ni, Fe), which I see as basically a thinking version of my dual ESI (Fi, Se, Ni, Te), but something was off, so I didn't marry her.
I did marry an SLI (same as my SLI father, but a Te-subtype, so more like a mirror, really). She wasn't that warm, but when you grow up in a Thinking environment, chilly is normal. Plus, we made a great team for accomplishing things. If there are long term effects from ITR, they are manifest in what you become used to.

The one thing I miss about my SLI ex is her Si, but I've since realized that I can hire that in the form of interior decorators, whom I don't have to live with.
I should add that I don't think I've lost my Role function of Fe. The last LSI was attracted to me precisely because she saw that I stepped up and helped out a person in a group who needed help but who was basically a stranger, when no one else would help them. The reason the relationship lasted a year was because I purposely worked on demonstrating Fe to her.

Studies show that identical twins, raised in radically different households, leave those households with the opinions and tastes of those households, but as time goes on, they gradually drift from those values and become more like each other, even to the point of working in similar jobs, living in houses that look alike, having wives who look alike, etc.

I have been doing a random walk since I left Deltaville. It is interesting to list the women I've dated, in MBTI terms.

ISTP (LSI)
ISTJ (SLI)
INFJ (IEI)
INFP (EII)
INTP (LII)
INTJ (ILI)
INFJ (IEI)
ISTP (LSI)

I could tell you the pluses and minuses of each type, as I see them, but what is relevant here is a sense of confusion, of not knowing instantly what I want, which I see as being a result of the strong alienation from my natural preferences which has been my environment for most of my life.

What I found with the last LSI is an incredible warmth and sense of belonging, mutual respect and affection, and an easy manner of interacting, which I attribute to her sharing two functions with my dual (and her being a terrific person). Unfortunately, her other two functions are those of my Extinguishment partner, so that part doesn't really work.

However, I think I'm getting closer to my goal of meeting my own needs, and not those of my parents. I think the process is slow but inevitable. ("About time, you moron", says Adam to himself.)

If you miss Si, how can you be LIE with Si-POLR?

[Adam Strange]

If you miss Si, how can you be LIE with Si-POLR?

Si is about paying attention to one's health and creating a comfortable environment. I suck at both of those things. The ex always scheduled doctor's visits and told me to go to the hospital when I broke my foot (I figured it would get better on its own. Instead, I was in a cast for six weeks), and she was great at decorating, doing laundry, shopping for needed household items, and keeping the house in presentable shape.

Just because I'm Si-PoLR doesn't mean I don't appreciate the value of those things. I just feel inadequate at providing them myself, and when someone points out that I'm not taking care of my health or doing anything to make the house more comfortable, I feel bad but can't seem to do anything about it.

When the house gets a new HVAC system and the ceilings go back up, I'll hire an interior decorator to choose the furnishings and then will get a maid service to come in and clean. It makes more sense for me to do what I'm good at and get someone else to do what I'm not good at.

Suz, if you had someone around who worked to make your own work effortlessly more efficient (more stuff done, less work on your part) or who could warn you about what is certainly going to happen in the future, wouldn't you miss that person if you lost them?

[Rebelondeck]

Relations can change people, everyone influences everyone. ......

I fully agree but ones operating system doesn't change; instead, the system adapts to prevent reoccurrences or to produce more of the same within the framework of ones type. For example, I've had a number of relationships with ESI so I've learned how to walk on egg shells but this LII is no more empathetic than he was at a younger age; I just learned where the hot buttons and soft tissue were and that's the only real change, which has made me wiser but my weaknesses in processing still exist.

a.k.a. I/O

[Olimpia]

Relations can change people, everyone influences everyone. In a way our friends and family is a part of you and you of them. When entering a long term relation there might be long term effects on you.

It seems to be that the supervisee neglect their role element. When this happens they lose a lot of charm they used to be. What I have observed is when LIE is neglecting their Fe element after being in a long term relation, a close one, with the SLI. LIE adopt the SLI's view of Fe and start to neglect this part of themselves more and more. The role element does play a huge role in how society perceive you and it is a big loss in my opinion. What have you observed? Is there such a thing as "long term effects" from ITR?

First of, I find it somewhat odd you attribute someone's "charm" to their Role function. I suppose that is simply your personal view on the Role of your Supervisee.
Generally speaking, people's Role isn't really where their true charm lies.

And regarding your statement that the Supervisee seems to neglect their Role function: In my experience, it is actually the opposite that occurs.
Seeing the weakness of their Supervisor in that element, they will occasionally try to bolster their grasp on that function and aid their Supervisor in that realm – somewhat begrudgingly, though. I've written a bit more about how your Supervisee will deal with your PoLR here.

From my personal experience, I remember trying to make my Supervisor (LIE) more aware of taking care of their health, mostly from the lens of Se valuing: implying they'd have more energy, and probably look better. I'd tell them how me trying to be a bit more healthy myself helped me with feeling more energetic, and how I only cared about health because I like to be vain and look good. That stuff would somewhat work, but I couldn't keep this act up for long, because eventually I'd feel a bit frustrated that they cannot take care of it themselves, and I have my own troubles with Si.

I find that I actually neglect my Role function more around my Supervisee, ESE – because they are better at it.
With an ESE I can be in the mindset of "Let them take care of those things, for I don't really care and they are much better at it anyway."

[FDG]

I suppose the LIE you´re talking about is just a bit depressed.

[Olimpia]

Relations can change people, everyone influences everyone. In a way our friends and family is a part of you and you of them. When entering a long term relation there might be long term effects on you.
(...) What have you observed? Is there such a thing as "long term effects" from ITR?

People surely have an effect on each other during the relationship, and to an extent afterwards.
At the same time, I find over time the influence wears off (after you've separated). It also depends a lot on what your instinctual stacking is, how old you were, and what kind of role this person occupied in your life.

For example, the first long term romantic relationship in your youth would have a much more enduring long-term effect on you if you were SX first, than if you were SX last – regardless which specific ITR you had.

I'd say that for SP first individuals, relationships with people have the least emotional and psychological impact on them, in comparison to the other instincts, and on average.
Ofc if an SP person suffered from an abusive relationship, that will take a toll on their mental health. However, I'd argue this effect would be much worse if they were SX first.

I know of an SX first woman who got sexually abused as a child (I do not know the details, but it is not our business anyway). She has been happily married to her Activity partner for several years now, but she still needs to both attend individual therapy and couple's therapy, and still has an insecure attachment style.

Anyhow, Duality is said to de-neurotize the people involved, and the same seems to apply to a lesser degree with a Semi-Dual, and maybe also with Activity and your Benefactor.

Personally, I grew up with a Conflictor father, and I do believe his influence on me in my teenage years strongly impacted me in a negative way, to the point I developed a very unhealthy body image and very low self esteem. Meanwhile, my SEE sister has grown up a bit and is a young teen now. It is difficult to describe how it works, but on some level I do believe her being around has psychologically helped me a bit. The fact she is my sister feels like a blessing to me. Having said that, it is not like she magically makes all my negative feelings disappear, but her being around is like some kind of a psychological crutch. Whenever my father pressures me emotionally and she is around, she'll loudly defend me with words, hug me and form a barrier between us. It makes me feel good, haha. I'd like to point out that it is not a truly serious situation – my father will be somewhat perplexed but shrug it off with a smile, and I'll chuckle and hug my sister back. It's a good thing to have your Conflictor's Benefactor by your side. My sister feels like a protective shield in those situations, haha. Her strength makes me relax.

So, to summarize... Yes, ITRs have both short-term and long-term effects.
But the extent of those depends on your instincts, your age, their role/significance, and lastly ofc the kind of ITR you have.

[Olimpia]

I suppose the LIE you´re talking about is just a bit depressed.

In my experience, LIEs who were SP blindspot didn't give a damn about their health.
I know one guy who mostly eats fast food every single day, and doesn't care.

I see this being a bit different with the SO/SP kind.
They try a bit more to be healthy, but they are still not too good at it without help.
They are much better at keeping their finances in check.

 

This could just be me, but based on my impression the richest people in the world (Bill Gates and Elon Musk, for example) are predominately LIE So/Sp.
The mix of good business acumen/Te, plus good foresight/Ni, plus a good Sp instinct and a main focus on Social connections, often results in big (and sustainable) monetary gains.

The more of those factors you have, the more likely you are going to "make it big". Another example would be Oprah Winfrey, who isn't LIE but "at least" EIE with Te Role, and who is also So/Sp.

[Suz]

Si is about paying attention to one's health and creating a comfortable environment. I suck at both of those things. The ex always scheduled doctor's visits and told me to go to the hospital when I broke my foot (I figured it would get better on its own. Instead, I was in a cast for six weeks), and she was great at decorating, doing laundry, shopping for needed household items, and keeping the house in presentable shape.

Just because I'm Si-PoLR doesn't mean I don't appreciate the value of those things. I just feel inadequate at providing them myself, and when someone points out that I'm not taking care of my health or doing anything to make the house more comfortable, I feel bad but can't seem to do anything about it.

When the house gets a new HVAC system and the ceilings go back up, I'll hire an interior decorator to choose the furnishings and then will get a maid service to come in and clean. It makes more sense for me to do what I'm good at and get someone else to do what I'm not good at.

Suz, if you had someone around who worked to make your own work effortlessly more efficient (more stuff done, less work on your part) or who could warn you about what is certainly going to happen in the future, wouldn't you miss that person if you lost them?

au contraire.
Ne-doms suck at those things too, and value Si.
Not valuing Si means you dont care about those things. Si-POLR is supposed to mean not only not caring about Si, but also being irritated by it.


Re: your question posed to me -- idk... depends on how it's done I guess. My type remains under question anyway.

[FDG]

au contraire.
Ne-doms suck at those things too, and value Si.
Not valuing Si means you dont care about those things. Si-POLR is supposed to mean not only not caring about Si, but also being irritated by it.

I don´t think so, I think both LIEs and ILEs are attracted to partners who are good at both Fi and Si, ESIs and SEIs both have 4D Si after all.

[Suz]

I don´t think so, I think both LIEs and ILEs are attracted to partners who are good at both Fi and Si, ESIs and SEIs both have 4D Si after all.

but an LIE to have enjoyed the Si so much that that is the main thing missed????? seems inconsistent with socionics to me.

[Muddy]

but an LIE to have enjoyed the Si so much that that is the main thing missed????? seems inconsistent with socionics to me.

I think both ILEs and LIEs like having someone else take of domestic Si concerns. The reason why SEI conflicts with LIE but not ILE is that SEI expects their partner to show enthusiasm when they provide Si, of which ILE shows in abundance but not LIE. An SEI would very offended if they spent hours making a meal only to have LIE show indifference towards their efforts. ESI on the other hand would just view domestic concerns as their duty and not expect praise in the same way as SEI. What's important for ESI instead is that their partner shows loyalty, integrity and good virtues in return for their domestic service.

[Suz]

I think both ILEs and LIEs like having someone else take of domestic Si concerns. The reason why SEI conflicts with LIE but not ILE is that SEI expects their partner to show enthusiasm when they provide Si, of which ILE shows in abundance but not LIE. An SEI would very offended if they spent hours making a meal only to have LIE show indifference towards their efforts. ESI on the other hand would just view domestic concerns as their duty and not expect praise in the same way as SEI. What's important for ESI instead is that their partner shows loyalty, integrity and good virtues in return for their domestic service.

This is interesting, but i'm not sure Si can necessarily be equated with domestic duties.

[Saoirse]

but an LIE to have enjoyed the Si so much that that is the main thing missed????? seems inconsistent with socionics to me.

This is my favorite article on other types' use of your vulnerable function. The thing is, even though the PoLR is "unvalued" in Model A, it's so weak that it's often a point of extreme insecurity, to the point where you greatly appreciate help in it. So you like being with someone who is good at it. But if they are not only good at it, but also value it, like your Conflictor, then that's where issues arise as they see your vulnerable function as their purpose/ultimate goal (so you have fundamentally different approaches to life), whereas your Dual just sees it as a means to an end.

I actually find LSEs' Si annoying (but this is probably because I am self-pres last) and dearly treasure when they defend me with their Se or "encroach" on others for me (i.e., ask for totally reasonable things that I don't feel like I have the right to ask for), haha. I also think my interactions with LSE friends have gradually improved my Se (is such a thing even possible for someone so terrible at it as me ) because they encroach on me, but in a much gentler way than SxEs do--more slowly, such that even I can notice and push back (at the expense of great effort).

[Saoirse]

To the main question of this thread, I do think there are long-term effects, especially from very significant relationships like our parents. I was raised by an LII dad and SLI mom, and I'm one of the most logic-valuing and logic-adept EIIs out there. I majored in applied math and apply statistical/probabilistic thinking to basically every facet of life. I'm also not quite as socially magical as some EII descriptions make us sound, perhaps because my parents never taught me much on those dimensions.

[wacey]

I have no real disagreements nor comments with op.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

sry if this sounds cynical but I think people are influenced much less by others than we think. Basically people all kind of just follow their own narcissism and that only. The long term effects of relationship is there really is no such thing as 'relationships' to me, just a bunch of narcissists that want their own way. Of course I include myself in that. Obviously I'd be incredibly happy if the entire world was just a bunch of naked gay frat boy hunk chads or whatever...

It's like anything I was 'inspired' by, it's like it's just something I would do myself if I was like in a higher social class or was less lazy and really pushed myself. It's how I would already naturally talk or do... so it's just narcissism.

haha i'm a debbie downer I know. Despite my Fe, I'm just like her. <3

(on a positive note I greatly admire people that can truly not hate or kill ppl that are different, as that is true strength of character to me since there is so much natural conflict due to all our narcissism contrasting. Though this can be done subtlety, you don't have to even preach or be showy about it at all. You don't have to love or like people, but hatred I think is giving into a weakness that the other person can fight against.)

[Tigerfadder]

This is interesting, but i'm not sure Si can necessarily be equated with domestic duties.

Ya, no element is anything with "doing". But in a way since Si is sensation, if you can have a fitting and good sensation in doing something that is the way Si want to do it.

I have no real disagreements nor comments with op.

Your opinions are important!

sry if this sounds cynical but I think people are influenced much less by others than we think. Basically people all kind of just follow their own narcissism and that only. The long term effects of relationship is there really is no such thing as 'relationships' to me, just a bunch of narcissists that want their own way. Of course I include myself in that. Obviously I'd be incredibly happy if the entire world was just a bunch of naked gay frat boy hunk chads or whatever...

I sense you have a weak Fi element.

[Tigerfadder]

As an LIE who just got out of a LTR with an SLI, I sure as hell hope not.

By knowing you gain advantage to recover and soso...

To the main question of this thread, I do think there are long-term effects, especially from very significant relationships like our parents.

Good point!

[Pallas]

Don't overdose on ITR, it's bad for your real-life relationships. Having some in small quantities should be harmless though.

[Pallas]

Don't overdose on ITR, it's bad for your real-life relationships. Having some in small quantities should be harmless though.

What you described sounds like it'd take sort of complete isolation or something for people to lose the normal element of Experience on 2D and 1D functions, so I don't think that'd happen.

[Alomoes]

Well, my thought on this is that prolonged exposure to people who think differently than the way you think will immerse you in their culture. The only time this is not true is when there is a resistance. So yes, it is very likely you shall change, but it is likely because of the thoughts that come from interpretation of these people who are different.

The thoughts can be anything, but they should have an impact on future actions.