Is politics type related?
My view is that it isn't. What's yours?
Is politics type related?
My view is that it isn't. What's yours?
Last edited by tcaudilllg; 01-19-2010 at 10:10 PM.
Hard left.
I'm rightwing. Leftwings are naieve.
they are to soft.
they like lower punishments, more talking, more money to the people who are sick and can't work.
These are all good things, but they can be exaggarated. In our country it has gone that way. I once opened a thread about women with one child don't have to work in our country and they get 1800 euro (2500 dollar) for free every month. (I work 160 hours per month and earn less!)
It probably because these 'good' measurements are easyer to accept by politics while taking money away from these 'poor' people would seem like a cruel measurement. But that's where the right wing comes in handy, they have no problems with these seemingly cruel measurements which are in fact no less then reasonable.
The end is nigh
Generally center, leaning conservative. Much more situation related than type related. For instance, one might expect Se-egos to be pro big government, insofar as Se-egos are the dictator stereotypes, but then Se-egos are also fiercely protective of their control over themselves as opposed to government control over themselves, so they also have a potential motive for being libertarian. If anything, deltas tend to be more center, while betas tend to be more extreme with whatever they are.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
Whoa. I thought you guys had a better grip on socionics than this. And people.
If you hold on to these beliefs, your application of socionics will be less than suspect... it will be garbage.
Did you just knee-jerk react on this, or did you bother to actually discuss people's views with them?
They cannot. That's bullocks.nations can be typed
Last edited by tcaudilllg; 01-20-2010 at 12:15 AM.
Politics are definitely type related, at least there is a tendency. Alphas and Deltas are rather left-wing, Betas and Gammas are rather right-wing.
But it also depends on DCNH subtypes:
Dominant subtypes: right-wing
Creative subtypes: liberal
Normalizing subtypes: center
Harmonizing subtypes: left-wing
Last edited by JohnDo; 01-20-2010 at 05:34 AM.
johndo no offense but I think I hate you
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
If you have any evidence or reasoning to back up that assertion, I'd be happy to consider it. However, everything I've seen so far, from my own observations to the opinions of most mainstream socionists whose opinion on the subject I have read about, indicates that groups of people such as nations, regions, clubs, etc., can be assigned types based on their consistent values and behavioural tendencies.
Quaero Veritas.
I don't know if I am to laugh or cry after reading this. I mean:
1) discussing politics on a bloody socionics forum (thank tcaudilllg),
2) it's crystal clear, you don't know what are you talking about (assuming it was directed at me). Funny thing is, I know where are you making a mistake.
Ah, I can see that we're approaching the subject with radically different underlying assumptions. We'll have to agree to disagree, then, for now.
As the resident guy-who-actually-knows-what-he's-talking-about when it comes to DCNH, please don't let JohnDo's poorly-substantiated personal theories colour your opinion of actual DCNH.
Quaero Veritas.
It is not speculation but my observation. But you can also explain it theoretically:Originally Posted by jarno
dominant subtype: wants to lead people, make them work (conservative)
creative subtype: wants have good conditions for creative research (liberal)
normalizing subtype: wants to do his job in stable conditions (center)
harmonizing subtype: wants to help people who are in need (left-wing)
So the correlation between DCNH and politics is fuckin obvious. It also corresponds with my observations...
So what are your observations? No correlation?! It should be obvious that a harmonizer (who wants to help people) is rather left-wing or that a dominator (who wants to make people work) is rather right-wing. Only a tendency, of course...Originally Posted by KrigTheViking
oke that's good. Could you explain that, because I like to learn that. Since I never heard/seen any clear reasons where my reasoning went wrong.
It's not that I think leftwing is bad, it's very good, I just think they don't take into account the bad motives of people, and they don't reward hard working people in the right ratio. As in my example was clear.
Type does deal with the creation of applications, but I consider those a form of knowledge. Actual is always about skill, which has been shown in studies not to correlate to type. (unless you're thinking of idea creation as a skill, which I'm not because it can't be learned).
I'm seeing that a discussion of subtype in the context of the political type theory is in order.
Nothing wrong with your reasoning, you just omitted some details there, crucial details. No offense, but that's no surprise to me. You're not the first and not the last.
Heh, I'm not here to tell you or anyone else, whether it is bad or good. You make your own choices. Yes, the example was perfect. A perfect example of a liberal or social democratic government/society, and I assure you, I'm nowhere close to either.
I do not think nations or broad political categories can be typed.
The most you can do is type political movements.
Ayn Rand's objectivist movement was very Beta, but David Friedman's was Delta (Both being pro capitalist, individualist, minarchist, etc).
You could say Nazi Germany was Beta, but that's only because of the enormous cultural control ****** instituted.
The only part of a nation you can type is the crest of its waves of celebrities and rulers (if that makes sense).
The end is nigh
Your logic is so full of non-sequiturs that it is barely comprehensible. Dominant tries to lead people and order them around in pursuit of a goal, yes. But that goal can just as easily be a liberal one as a conservative one. Or do you think that there are no Dominant Communists? Stalin was Harmonizing or something?
Likewise, Harmonizing, first of all, is not primarily concerned with "helping those in need", but moreso with creating and maintaining a harmonious environment. If helping those in need will achieve that, they'll do it. If those in need are violent or disruptive, then running away and going home will also achieve that goal of harmonious surroundings. Furthermore, the idea that only left-wing types are concerned with "helping people in need" is ridiculous to the point of absurdity. All decent people want to help those in need; left-wing and right-wing types simply disagree on the best way to go about that.
Quaero Veritas.
A perfect example of a liberal or social democratic government/society, and I assure you, I'm nowhere close to either.
Mistake lies in differentiating between systems, bare in mind some of them are only socialist in wording.
EDIT: I don't know how "deep" are you into it which means I cannot proceed further without you making the first move. It is quite hard without that kind of knowledge about your opponent (?). It would take just too long.
This is where I normally stand on political issues.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Alpha quadra: socialism
Beta quadra: dictatorship
Gamma quadra: conservativism
Delta quadra: high decentralized government
People happy with their sexual life: live and let live approach to life
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
I just don't give a fuck.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Stalin is a very special case because he called himself a leninist whereas I see the killing of his comrades as a counter-revolution. I wouldn't call him a communist but a fascist who called himself a communist. In my opinion he was D-LSE like Dick Cheney.
All I wanted to say is that there is certainly a tendency. Not all harmonizers will be left-wing (but pobably most), not all dominators will be right-wing (but probably most).
I disagree. You probably have to type more harmonizers. Harmonizers of some main types would behave like you describe them, others wouldn't...
I never said that. I just wanted to state main drive of the DCNH subtypes:
dominant: to lead, enforce order and discipline. Often right-wing.
creative: to invent, create ideas. Often liberal.
normalizing: to work, implement ideas. Often conservative.
harmonizing: to help, restore peace. Often left-wing.
It doesn't fit in all cases. D-IEEs. are hardly ever right-wing I think. But there is certainly a correleation between subtype and politics...
I never got the difference between liberal and left-wing (and conservative and right-wing.) What is it?
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
In America there is no difference. Republicans are right-wing/conservative. Democrats are left-wing/liberal.
In germany the situation is a bit more complicated because there are 5 relevant political parties:
right-wing:
CDU - conservative
FDP - right-liberal
left-wing:
SPD - social democratic
Grüne - left-liberal
Linke - socialist
FDP is not conservative but right-wing. Linke is not liberal but left-wing.
CDU corresponds to the American Republicans. FDP+Grüne correspond to the American Democrats. SPD and Linke do not exist in America because there are no social democrats or socialists there...
In politics, left-wing, leftist and the Left are generally used to describe support for social change with a view towards creating a more egalitarian society. The terms Left and Right were coined during the French Revolution, referring to the seating arrangement in parliament; those who sat on the left generally supported the radical changes of the revolution, including the creation of a republic and secularization.[1] The concept of a political Left became more prominent after the June Days Uprising of 1848.
The term was applied to a number of revolutionary movements in Europe, especially socialism, anarchism[2] and communism. The term is also used to describe social democracy and social liberalism.[3] Roderick Long, an anarcho-capitalist professor, summarises left-wing politics as "concerns for worker empowerment, worry about plutocracy, concerns about feminism and various kinds of social equality".[4]
In politics, right-wing, rightist and the Right are generally used to describe support for preserving traditional social orders with a view favoring a more stratified society.[1][2][3][4] The terms Right and Left were coined during the French Revolution, referring to seating arrangements in parliament; those who sat on the right supported preserving the institutions of the Ancien Régime (the monarchy, the aristocracy and the established church).[5][6][7][8]
The concept of a political Right became more prominent after the second restoration of the French monarchy in 1815 with the Ultra-royalists. Today the term the Right is primarily used to refer to political groups that have a historical connection with the traditional Right, including conservatives, reactionaries, monarchists, aristocrats and theocrats. The term is also used to describe those who support free market capitalism, and some forms of nationalism.
Political spectrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The end is nigh
For some reason I read Jake's post and pictured him as the Monopoly Man.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
This is because I'm a Te capitalist C INTp.
The end is nigh