ENFps Fe

[forgetmenot]

Ok, so I am ENFp. I am hundred percent sure I'm Ne/Si. But when I read the functions descriptions I'd say I use Fe more than Fi. I just don't think I value Fi that much, it seems a bit boring to me. I like creating atmosphere, enhancing other people's mood rather than judging what's right and wrong.
Or maybe I just don't understand the meaning of the functions. The ENFp description fits me best but is it possible that at some point of life I just learned to value Fe too much?
Have others ENFps experienced similar thing? Or maybe you understand nothing from this post

[07490]

Ok, so I am ENFp. I am hundred percent sure I'm Ne/Si. But when I read the functions descriptions I'd say I use Fe more than Fi. I just don't think I value Fi that much, it seems a bit boring to me. I like creating atmosphere, enhancing other people's mood rather than judging what's right and wrong.
Or maybe I just don't understand the meaning of the functions. The ENFp description fits me best but is it possible that at some point of life I just learned to value Fe too much?
Have others ENFps experienced similar thing? Or maybe you understand nothing from this post

I thought you were ENTj-Ni 7w8 Sx/Sp with the love for ISFj?

[Simon Ssmall]

I consider myself pretty good at Fe however I don't use it as much, even though I initially thought I do. If you are convinced you are Ne/Si then id suggest to check both ENTp/ISFp maybe. What I know for sure I never ever thought Fi is boring, it sounds like something I really relate to, I pretty much always thought Fe is something I don't like that much.

[forgetmenot]

Maybe I consider Fi sometimes toO boring in terms of talking all the time about people, how they behave, judging their behaviour. Maybe it's not Fi but that's what my ISFj friend would like to do all the time. I mean she's my best friend but I'm more active and I do not always feel like talking all the time. I don't know if that's Fi or Fe or whatever but sometimes I just don't want to talk about why I am in a bad mood I just prefer to watch something funny or to do something else instead. That would be Fe valuing I quess? Just making you feel better.

[1981slater]

When I share Socionics stuff with my friends, most guys see themselves as ENTps and most girls (specially ISFps) see themselves as ENFps. But I know not all of them match their self-analysis. Being leading is very appealing to people and people who never read but spend their time watching TV usually claim they r

[forgetmenot]

Hm, I actually don't watch TV at all as I don't have it at home . I'm pretty sure I am ENFp, the second one suitable would be ESFj/ISFp.
I think I behave ESFjish and ISFpish from time to time but that might be because my family is Alpha.
I just don't think it's possible that I'm ISFp because I'm different than my ISFp friends.
I'm pretty similar to my ESFj friend (I think Fi subtype) but she's just a freak
I value T in potential partners, be it Ti or Te.
My very good male friend is ENTp but I don't feel attracted to him at all. The truth is I like taking care of him, preparing food etc and he enjoys it too.
I think my life is too big a mess for me to be Si leading .

[forgetmenot]

What I am trying to say is that maybe socionics isn't infallible. Maybe we are not only one type and we can sometimes adjust our behaviour. Maybe you can make your functions grow stronger by spending time with some people. E.g. I think I used much more Si when I had my INTj boyfriend just because somebody had to. I mean I paid all the bills, and remembered about everything. Now, when he's not around I don't use it as much

What about people with split personality disorder? That might be interesting. I think they might different types depending on which person they are at the given moment.

[1981slater]

What's your job?

[forgetmenot]

Hm, I still study - linguistics. In theory I should be a translator of both English and German but the idea seems boring to me. An interpreter sounds much better. I teach English now and I quite enjoy it but I don't see any opportunity for self development.
I'd like to set up my own business, create something beautiful. I have many ideas

[1981slater]

I'd like to set up my own business, create something beautiful.

As beautiful as this one



Apparently, your quadra values are , your biography sounds ENFp after all

[forgetmenot]

Heh, so no news for me today.

Money isn't beautiful but is strongly welcome
And you forgot about and

Anyway, I am going shopping and I'll think about theories in the meantime .
plus in action.
Is shopping

[1981slater]

Money isn't beautiful but is strongly welcome

Money is not beautiful, it's gorgeous

And you forgot about and

I didn't. I just ignored them

I am going shopping and I'll think about theories in the meantime .
plus in action.
Is shopping

I got you! I'm shifting towards ISFp now. + lifestyle with some moments of + , + are understood as an occasional recreation.

Vergessen Sie mich nicht is an ISFp

[Creepy-male]

Well, don't forget, you can use to the ends of creating "bondiness". At the end of the day, though, the goal is altering the distance between yourself and another person, and if that doesn't call for WAI! WAI! behaviour, then > .

I think.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

From what i've seen, there's a lot of stuff which describes Fe which imo isn't Fe in practice.

Smiling and wanting people to enjoy themselves or other such things isn't necessarily ego Fe (and I just mention this because you sort of do, and it can be things in a description of Fe ego.)

I think a lot of the descriptions are sort of one dimensional and for me, noticing the difference between what's typically programmed behaviour in people, and actual Fe ego, is best observed in practice in life not function descriptions on wiki or where ever.

This is just my opinion, others might disagree, and I know at least one person who does disagree, but, not much I can do about those that do!

[Simon Ssmall]

I agree with cyclops, id say before you attribute certain behaviour to Fe or Fi you should learn more about functions first.

I started of also as "I smile a lot" = Fe, "I cheer people up" = Fe and things like that which in reality is not that simple nor is it an indicator. In your case for example, the fact you don't want to talk about problems with your friend can be actually just as successfully attributed to Fi as I noticed Fi type people like to hide negative feelings or be alone when they are down. Not to say this is an indication of Fi either. It can have many shades and you basically need to know more why you act one way or another and in general it is better to analyze what is consistent and what are the motivations behind it.

Descriptions also are not always very good thing to go alone with as I noticed people find it easy to relate to them, for instance JuJu and Mimosa related to ENFp descriptions but turned out to be INFp's.

I'd suggest learn about socionics more first before trying to create theories about how everyone is acting like different types in different moments. When you know more maybe you wont need to create new theories to explain your behavior. No-one is limited to its strong functions, however your lifestyle and general behavioral patterns should be consistent unless you go through some rough patches in your life or whatnot.

[Ezra]

To be honest, forgetmenot, the way you're describing yourself and the reasons why you are not x or y type are completely arbitrary, and generally miss the point. The definitions you give of Fe and Fi are incredibly simplistic.

The best policy to adopt is to actually get on a page that describes your functional breakdown, and see if it makes sense to you or not.

[jewels]

I don't relate to this at all...

Fi is not boring to me. It's how I think, and I find it fun, or at least satisfying. This weekend I sat around w/ another ENFp and an ISFj and we discussed Fi-related stuff for about 8 hours and all had a blast. I do judge ethical behavior and it does piss me off when people are not doing the "right" thing towards each other or me.

I don't like Fe because I don't like to influence how people feel. It feels to me like controlling them, and because I don't like to be controlled, I prefer to leave things more neutral. I want people to create their own emotions within themselves and then share them w/ me, not me create their emotions for them.

I don't want to put pressure on them in the emotional atmosphere way because it makes it like the other person doesn't have a choice in how they react. That's not to say I'm not persuasive in other ways, but I really don't like to.

Forgetmenot, there is something about your posts that seems like Fe to me.

[Creepy-male]

The best policy to adopt is to actually get on a page that describes your functional breakdown, and see if you can actually read the machine translation or not.

Fixed.

EDIT

I don't like Fe because I don't like to influence how people feel. It feels to me like controlling them, and because I don't like to be controlled, I prefer to leave things more neutral. I want people to create their own emotions within themselves and then share them w/ me, not me create their emotions for them.

Mostly true, but there are situations when being tuned to Fe is a positive thing. Have you ever tried to direct a roomful of 12-year-olds in drama club? *shudder*. And how do you deal with friends when they're down? Stock aphorisms?

[ArchonAlarion]

Well, don't forget, you can use to the ends of creating "bondiness". At the end of the day, though, the goal is altering the distance between yourself and another person, and if that doesn't call for WAI! WAI! behaviour, then > .

I think.

Nope.

Fe is not used for "bonds"

understanding the "distance" and relationship between objects (including people) is the domain of Ti and Fi (Statics of Fields)

Statics of fields, which I call "links" (similarly "bonds"), are about organzing things in a horizontal-simultaneous (static) way based on the conceptual space between them (fields). Links fit things into a sort of system or constellation.

For "Internal Linkers" the system is intuitive, its based on "gut" feelings. Internal elements (Ne, Fe, Fi, Ni) are undefined. They can't be pinned down and any attempt to do so will make them disappear almost.

The way I have been thinking about it more recently, is that Internal is almost subconscious. Like you can sort of "tap" into it, but you have to be gentle and light otherwise it'll break. So that's why I call internal elements "intuitive" because they sort of are.

Whereas Externals (Se, Te, Ti, Si), are concrete, tangible, measurable. For these elements you have "punch" into them. You actively "stare" at these, really picking em apart. They can stand this treatment where the internal ones cannot.

I think you're becoming confused over the term "feeling" functions.

N, S, F, T are bullshit terms and I'd stay away from them.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Nope.

Fe is not used for "bonds"

understanding the "distance" and relationship between objects (including people) is the domain of Ti and Fi (Statics of Fields)

Statics of fields, which I call "links" (similarly "bonds"), are about organzing things in a horizontal-simultaneous (static) way based on their relationships to eachother (fields). Links fit things into a sort of system or constellation.

For "Internal Linkers" the system is intuitive, its based on "gut" feelings. Internal elements (Ne, Fe, Fi, Ni) are undefined. They can't be pinned down and any attempt to do so will make them disappear almost.

The way I have been thinking about it more recently, is that Internal is almost subconscious. Like you can sort of "tap" into it, but you have to be gentle and light otherwise it'll break. So that's why I call internal elements "intuitive" because they sort of are.

Whereas Externals (Se, Te, Ti, Si), are concrete, tangible, measurable. For these elements you have "punch" into them. You actively "stare" at these, really picking em apart. They can stand this treatment where the internal ones cannot.

I think you're becoming confused over the term "feeling" functions.

Eh, I think it would help if you put this in plain English or in a way which is practical, how it works with people irl.

N, S, F, T are bullshit terms and I'd stay away from them.

Na this isn't really true. At least most Russian socionics forums and most Russian socionists use them, as well as Jung, so they're good to be used really. Of course you don't have to use them!, but it's not correct to say they are bullshit terms.

Just thought i'd say is all.

[ArchonAlarion]

Se: External statics of objects
Te: External dynamics of objects
Ti: External statics of fields
Si: External dynamics of fields

Ne: Internal statics of objects
Fe: Internal dynamics of objects
Fi: Internal statics of fields
Ni: Internal dynamics of fields


extraverted intuition

extraverted = object

intuition = internal statics?

intoverted intuition

introverted = field

intuition = internal dynamics?

internal statics != internal dynamics

N= internal dynamics
N= internal statics

internal statics = internal dynamics?

error.


The only thing "N" elements have in common is that they are internal.


they are bullshit.


Se is the counter to Ne (statics of objects)
Te is the counter to Fe (dynamics of objects)
Ti is the counter to Fi (statics of fields)
Si is the counter to Ni (dynamics of fields)

[Creepy-Cyclops]

OK, chill out dude!

[ArchonAlarion]

OK, chill out dude!

lollllll

nah dude im totally chill, sorry for seeming angsty or something =P.

[Creepy-male]

Nope.

Fe is not used for "bonds".

Someone had a case of the misreadings!

Let me rephrase.

"Creating a certain emotional atmosphere can be a means towards the ends of altering the bonds of attraction or repulsion between people."

The only thing "N" elements have in common is that they are internal.

Actually, if you're strong in N, you're automatically weak in S, by virtue of the way Model A is constructed.

N turns towards the intangible; S turns towards the tangible.

[ArchonAlarion]

T turns towards the tangible; F turns towards the intangible

so T and S = tangible = external

N and F = intangible = internal

so now that all four of those letters have disappeared into external and internal....

[Simon Ssmall]

T turns towards the tangible; F turns towards the intangible

so T and S = tangible = external

N and F = intangible = internal

so now that all four of those letters have disappeared into external and internal....

Have you just used black magicka?

[ArchonAlarion]

Have you just used black magicka?

fuck,

now im on the run

[Creepy-male]

I see your point!

*flexes mind*

S/N is whether you turn towards the real world and its physical content, or to its abstract concept.

T/F is whether you're tuned into the human element or not.

Sort of.

And E/I is whether it's perceived as-is, or only communicated after processing. And please let's not get into "if a tree falls in a forest..." discussions.

Someone else explain this >;

[jessica129]

I

I don't like Fe because I don't like to influence how people feel. It feels to me like controlling them, and because I don't like to be controlled, I prefer to leave things more neutral. I want people to create their own emotions within themselves and then share them w/ me, not me create their emotions for them.

I don't want to put pressure on them in the emotional atmosphere way because it makes it like the other person doesn't have a choice in how they react. That's not to say I'm not persuasive in other ways, but I really don't like to.

Thus the reason we are duals. People like this are a breath of fresh air.

[ArchonAlarion]

I see your point!

*flexes mind*

S/N is whether you turn towards the real world and its physical content, or to its abstract concept.

T/F is whether you're tuned into the human element or not.

Sort of.

And E/I is whether it's perceived as-is, or only communicated after processing. And please let's not get into "if a tree falls in a forest..." discussions.

Someone else explain this >;

not really.


T and S are both about concretes (externals)

F and N are both about abstracts (internals)

here is the concrete-abstract scale

Se Te Ti Si Ne Fe Fi Ni

that part about the human element is just plain wrong.

These are my terms:

Attributes (statics of objects) Se and Ne
Paths (dynamics of objects) Te and Fe
Links (statics of fields) Ti and Fi
Flows (dynamics of fields) Si and Ni

Attributes fit into flows

and im still figuring out the relationship between paths and links

[Creepy-male]

Thus the reason we are duals. People like this are a breath of fresh air.

*probes*

I've been trying to hook a friend and an acquaintance up, the friend is possibly an SLI.

When the SLI is on a downswing, I have to keep steering him back towards actually attempt to engage in conversation with the aforementioned contact by attempting to neutralize his doubts and remind him of the whole point of the exercise: meeting up with a potential dual (though I haven't typed the person).

Question to you, then, is would you resent that sort of hands-on guidance?

[Simon Ssmall]

I bet 5 dolla that the answer is "yes"

[Creepy-male]

I bet 5 dolla that the answer is "yes"

Fascinating.

Maybe I am a SEI

[Simon Ssmall]

Fascinating.

Maybe I am a SEI

Well you werent asking me now where you? So wait for the actual answer . Id imagine this would be very uncomfortable though.

[jewels]

Fixed.

Mostly true, but there are situations when being tuned to Fe is a positive thing. Have you ever tried to direct a roomful of 12-year-olds in drama club? *shudder*. And how do you deal with friends when they're down? Stock aphorisms?

I could accomplish both of those things without using Fe. Couldn't you?

I mean, 12 year olds in Drama Club wouldn't need Fe. They'd probably need some Te actually, to get the play moving, or some Ne to see the big picture of what is to be accomplished in the play. Acting and plays aren't about Fe.

And the thing is, I would never set out to "cheer someone up." Instead I'd set out to let them know 1) How much I care value them (focusing on our Fi bond here), 2) I'd show that by letting them talk to me in a non-rushed/non-judgemental place so they can vent 3) remind them of other information in the situation they are leaving out -- kinds just make sure the whole picture is on the table 4) go deeper into what is bother them so they can figure it out with the best solution (not slapping on a "cheer up!!! " Fe type thing. 5) Ask if there is a different way (that they want) to see things (Ne).

"Stock aphorisms" probably has nothing to do with Fi.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[jessica129]

I bet 5 dolla that the answer is "yes"

That's a win

*probes*

I've been trying to hook a friend and an acquaintance up, the friend is possibly an SLI.

When the SLI is on a downswing, I have to keep steering him back towards actually attempt to engage in conversation with the aforementioned contact by attempting to neutralize his doubts and remind him of the whole point of the exercise: meeting up with a potential dual (though I haven't typed the person).

Question to you, then, is would you resent that sort of hands-on guidance?

While I could comprehend what you're trying to do, I hate when things feel forced like that. I'd much rather something happen naturally and if I had to have someone to 'force' me to talk to someone at all, it's probobly not someone i'd naturally want to speak with anyway. I'd kinda take offense to that, actually...like..I can't do it myself?

[ArchonAlarion]

Interesting ephemeros, but i disagree with some things.

First, Id say implicit is more applicable to Internal and explicit to External.

Also I think "description" while a bit iffy is alright alternate for static.

I favor dynamic over prediction because prediction implies specifically future oriented, which sort of excludes hindsight or the history of a process, which dynamic types often give attention to.

okay. Im gonna post a portion of some stuff Ive been workin on.


Revision of the Socionics Code and My Interpretation of the Information Elements
By Jacob Scranton aka ArchonAlarion

Each information element is positioned along three dichotomies:
Internal/External Static/Dynamic Bodies/Fields

Internal: That which is implicit, essential, immaterial, abstract, “intuitive”, etc.

External: That which is explicit, quantifiable, material, concrete, physical, etc.

Static: A horizontal simultaneous view, stationary, still, broad, snapshot, etc.

Dynamic: A linear sequential view, motion, process, long, movie, etc.

Bodies: Things by themselves, person, place, event, a thing alone without the judgments and feelings of observers being added to its qualities.

Fields: The interrelations between things, how an observer relates to something, the conceptual space in between bodies that consists of their relations to each other.

Static Bodies (Attributes): The variables of a thing. What something has at a certain moment. The qualities that define a thing and that allow it to be compared to other things due to the differing states.

Dynamic Bodies (Paths): The changes that a thing is undergoing. It is the process of something, how things happen, and what needs to be done to make a thing change. Along what path a thing is heading.

Static Fields (Links): The attributes of a relationship between things. What exactly the observer’s view on a thing is. How things should fit together and how should something be considered. The "distance" between objects in a framework.

Dynamic Fields (Flows): The changing environment in which things exist. It is the processes behind the relationships of things. A broad "theme" or context of an environment or process.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request