Activity Partners and PoLRs

[Becca]

Activity partners get into conflicts many times because one's ignoring function is the other's weak Polr. One partner expects the other to protect and not disturb their Polr, as their dual would. However, an activity partner is not cut out to care about the other's Polr function, and when they misuse it they do not understand why it hurts the other so strongly.

Ignoring Function

The ignoring function is also called the observing, or limiting function. A person has very little use of this element, as it is the rival image of the base function, representing an antithetical approach to the same domain. It lies in the subconscious as a persistent annoyance to the individual. Therefore, he or she tries to ignore it. When lectured by another on the use of the ignoring function, the individual sees it as superfluous information, for he or she knows how to use the function well, but chooses not to use it in favor of his or her more convenient base function. Usually the base function creates byproducts relating to the ignoring function, but the way it describes such information is very carefully chosen to fit the view of the leading function.A person limits the expression of this element in public (in favor of the base function), but sometimes uses it extensively in private, and can call upon it when necessary. For example, an SEI usually defaults to his base function and shies from activities that are highly physical or cause conflict, but if inevitable confrontation arises, he is able to use his Se and become fiercely coercive and quarrelsome for short periods of time.The extreme avoidance of this function can make it appear weak at times. However, when engaged it does not cause the same kind of psychological stress as a weak function, instead creating a kind of boredom or malaise.- See more at: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/f....l0W0HVXo.dpuf

For example, an ISTp may get angry and lash out violently, not paying attention to thier use of Se. The INFj flinches from the violence and recoils from that person. Whereas if it were an ENFp they would understand the misuse of Se and take care of it accordingly. The INFj just get's disgusted and scared of uncontrolled Se. This is why their dual is more careful with using it.
Also, an INFj may ignore Fe and this hurts ISTp because they need people to be extra careful around their feelings due to Fe Polr, which their dual gladly does.

[Becca]

Does anyone have any experiences like this? I have and this is why I think it is so interesting that people say activity is the second best ideal relationship.

Has anyone had positive experiences with activity partners? And in what ways were they good?

[ENJoymENT]

Hello. Yes I've had positive experiences with Activity. 2 of my 3 major relationships were LIE (me) with SEE. I did not experience conflicts regarding my PoLR or Role. Both of us seemed to devalue Si comforts in favour of Se adventure, and in depth Fi connections over diluted group Fe harmony. Similarly, IMO demonstrations of Ti and Ne were kept private and not flaunted, in that brains and creativity are just a given and should merely be tools to help others or to accomplish things that need to be done.

In that way, I felt that the similarity in Quadra values led to a shared affinity and understanding. I truly think the experience of Activation varies greatly according to the 2 types. For instance, being paired with another strong extrovert allowed me to relinquish some of the extroverted responsibilities that weren't my strengths: namely Se and Fe. Sometimes we, as extroverts, feel the need to take on all of the extroverted functions to pull our weight in a relationship, losing ourselves in the process. Rather than being "activated", it almost seemed that sharing the outer roles allowed us both to explore our introverted sides...to let go of the mask and stop controlling Te and entertaining Se.

With respect to the activation experience varying according to the 2 types involved, I can see how an inappropriate display of Se by an introverted partner...towards an introverted partner, would be disconcerting to an Fi Ego. That can't really be fairly compared to someone offering unwanted Si or Fe to an ENTj. All my experience only...and I'm fairly green with Socionics but I wanted to respond.

[FDG]

Does anyone have any experiences like this? I have and this is why I think it is so interesting that people say activity is the second best ideal relationship.

Afaik, many socionists (Gulenko included, as well as ehm, me) consider identical as the second-best relationship, then activity, then mirror.
As I said, this matches my experience. It's much easier for me to become "stable" friends with my identicals vs. activity.

Has anyone had positive experiences with activity partners?

Indeed, but only as friends. From a socionics POV, it's great how both partners are extraverted, positivist democrats producing a group or one-on-one atmosphere of "everything's possible YOLO" as well as serious producing a similar understanding of what's acceptable in terms of life outlook. What's not so great is how in fact my activity partners are extraverted sensors thus bound to being from time to time opportunistic, scheming, testing etc. - something that's often understood as "play" in irrational couples, but that can irritate me very much.

IDK if they hit my polr or not - at work, it's usually fine (or even great) if we're colleagues, so-so to bad if they're my boss (they often give me ultra detailed work to do, typically stuff they don't like, and I suck at it...; they also change their mind a lot).

[RedMarquee]

I find I only use id functions internally, but I still use them a lot, I work with a quasi and I can definitely see the same dimensionality, but different emphasis. I can think of only a few times I actively expressed id. All were when I was in situations where I was extremely annoyed and stressed. In same quadra interactions I tend to drop them completely to be myself (ego). I've had like 1 or 2 fights with a dual and our ids sort of keep each other in check and knock each other back to using our ego blocks.

[Becca]

Hello. Yes I've had positive experiences with Activity. 2 of my 3 major relationships were LIE (me) with SEE. I did not experience conflicts regarding my PoLR or Role. Both of us seemed to devalue Si comforts in favour of Se adventure, and in depth Fi connections over diluted group Fe harmony. Similarly, IMO demonstrations of Ti and Ne were kept private and not flaunted, in that brains and creativity are just a given and should merely be tools to help others or to accomplish things that need to be done.

In that way, I felt that the similarity in Quadra values led to a shared affinity and understanding. I truly think the experience of Activation varies greatly according to the 2 types. For instance, being paired with another strong extrovert allowed me to relinquish some of the extroverted responsibilities that weren't my strengths: namely Se and Fe. Sometimes we, as extroverts, feel the need to take on all of the extroverted functions to pull our weight in a relationship, losing ourselves in the process. Rather than being "activated", it almost seemed that sharing the outer roles allowed us both to explore our introverted sides...to let go of the mask and stop controlling Te and entertaining Se.

With respect to the activation experience varying according to the 2 types involved, I can see how an inappropriate display of Se by an introverted partner...towards an introverted partner, would be disconcerting to an Fi Ego. That can't really be fairly compared to someone offering unwanted Si or Fe to an ENTj. All my experience only...and I'm fairly green with Socionics but I wanted to respond.

I believe when you are closer to someone you will see more of how they use all their functions. And although ISTp does not "value" Se, they may fall into it when they are stressed about things. An activity partner is not meant to help you through stressful situations, because they cannot handle your ways of "letting it out." IME.
I have an LIE friend who is also sick of socionics lol.

[Becca]

Afaik, many socionists (Gulenko included, as well as ehm, me) consider identical as the second-best relationship, then activity, then mirror.
As I said, this matches my experience. It's much easier for me to become "stable" friends with my identicals vs. activity.

Yeah thanks for clarifying this for me lol.
I saw somewhere that identicals were the most neutral relationship, being not good or bad. Yet I do think they are better than activity because they understand each other's weaknesses.
Activity better than mirror? Maybe. I find that mirror relationships have too much unpredictability even though they may have similar interests.

Indeed, but only as friends. From a socionics POV, it's great how both partners are extraverted, positivist democrats producing a group or one-on-one atmosphere of "everything's possible YOLO" as well as serious producing a similar understanding of what's acceptable in terms of life outlook. What's not so great is how in fact my activity partners are extraverted sensors thus bound to being from time to time opportunistic, scheming, testing etc. - something that's often understood as "play" in irrational couples, but that can irritate me very much.

IDK if they hit my polr or not - at work, it's usually fine (or even great) if we're colleagues, so-so to bad if they're my boss (they often give me ultra detailed work to do, typically stuff they don't like, and I suck at it...; they also change their mind a lot).

Lol I find that introverted activity partners focus on the meaning of life and how to live peacefully, and are more vocal about it together.

[Becca]

I find I only use id functions internally, but I still use them a lot, I work with a quasi and I can definitely see the same dimensionality, but different emphasis. I can think of only a few times I actively expressed id. All were when I was in situations where I was extremely annoyed and stressed. In same quadra interactions I tend to drop them completely to be myself (ego). I've had like 1 or 2 fights with a dual and our ids sort of keep each other in check and knock each other back to using our ego blocks.

thanks I like this. I like how we can drop our id functions in same quadra interactions. Yet I still think that we can hurt our activty partners by our ignoring function hitting their polr.

[Suz]

Afaik, many socionists (Gulenko included, as well as ehm, me) consider identical as the second-best relationship, then activity, then mirror.
As I said, this matches my experience. It's much easier for me to become "stable" friends with my identicals vs. activity.

My experience differs. Not that i dont become fast friends with other IEEs, but I've found interactions with LSEs incredibly enjoyable and I notice them very easily because they are more often than not, people I greatly admire. Though I admit, most of them are a little bit intimidating (in the sense that I am in awe of them). So perhaps that might indeed be a manifestation of Becca's OP.

[Suz]

thanks I like this. I like how we can drop our id functions in same quadra interactions. Yet I still think that we can hurt our activty partners by our ignoring function hitting their polr.

Yeah that's been my experience as well (absence of unvalued functions). That's what's nice about same-quadra interactions.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't understand why you keep referring Se as aggression. You are beginning to upset me because you can't get that out of your head

[ENJoymENT]

I believe when you are closer to someone you will see more of how they use all their functions. And although ISTp does not "value" Se, they may fall into it when they are stressed about things. An activity partner is not meant to help you through stressful situations, because they cannot handle your ways of "letting it out." IME.
I have an LIE friend who is also sick of socionics lol.

Hello Becca--you may be right in that my PoLR is so pathetically feeble that I mistake Si hits for too much Se. I meant I was "green" to indicate that I'm fairly new to socionics, as opposed to being sick of it (though I am feeling a bit green today! ).

With respect to Activity partners being unable to help one another through stressful situations, it is still better than I've experienced, since most of my life experience has been with Alphas. Basically, inter-quadra interaction for me is a whole new world.


As for Identical relationships being preferable to Activity, I would disagree unless it was only for friendship. Being with an Identical would feel like being with another woman--I already have that stuff so why would I want more of the same? I like the difference

[ENJoymENT]

I don't understand why you keep referring Se as aggression. You are beginning to upset me because you can't get that out of your head

Hi Maritsa I'm not sure who your quote was for, but I wanted to say that as one with an Se HA, I also tend to (perhaps wrongly) generalize Se as aggression, but not in a negative way. I see Se as a free, present and uncensored way of being and acting...a lack of paralysis. Te + Ni can be limiting and confining--as I get so caught up in ensuring the final act is "correct" that I miss the moment. I envy the liberation of being real and true in the moment, and acting as opposed to suppressing. In the instances where I do use Se, I experience a momentary rush of satisfaction and vitality...which is usually very quickly reprimanded by my Ni for not fully thinking everything through.

Perhaps contributing (in my case) to the "aggression" misnomer, is the complication of gender. I am a pre-planning &thinking female with a people-pleasing E3w2 (pair all of that with Inferior Fi!). Being in a relationship with an athletic male SEE, where he had the freedom to be who he truly was in the manners he chose in the moment--consequences be damned, was quite a contrast. I learned to let go and be freer, he learned to consider more often the consequences of his actions and to pre-adjust them resulting in more control in his life.

[Becca]

Hello Becca--you may be right in that my PoLR is so pathetically feeble that I mistake Si hits for too much Se. I meant I was "green" to indicate that I'm fairly new to socionics, as opposed to being sick of it (though I am feeling a bit green today! ).

With respect to Activity partners being unable to help one another through stressful situations, it is still better than I've experienced, since most of my life experience has been with Alphas. Basically, inter-quadra interaction for me is a whole new world.


As for Identical relationships being preferable to Activity, I would disagree unless it was only for friendship. Being with an Identical would feel like being with another woman--I already have that stuff so why would I want more of the same? I like the difference

Lol. My LIE friend tells me that I am too weak and timid and I guess that is Se HA. My LSE friend sees me as strong though, and it is interesting to see how differently they respond to me.

Inter-quadra interaction is better in terms of having the same values, however even within it there are stronger emphasis of importance of functions. I guess I am spoiled because I've experienced a lot of ESTj interaction.

[Becca]

Hi Maritsa I'm not sure who your quote was for, but I wanted to say that as one with an Se HA, I also tend to (perhaps wrongly) generalize Se as aggression, but not in a negative way. I see Se as a free, present and uncensored way of being and acting...a lack of paralysis. Te + Ni can be limiting and confining--as I get so caught up in ensuring the final act is "correct" that I miss the moment. I envy the liberation of being real and true in the moment, and acting as opposed to suppressing. In the instances where I do use Se, I experience a momentary rush of satisfaction and vitality...which is usually very quickly reprimanded by my Ni for not fully thinking everything through.

I agree about Se being a free and uncensored way of being, and this can manifest itself in aggression when people become upset.

[ENJoymENT]

I agree about Se being a free and uncensored way of being, and this can manifest itself in aggression when people become upset.

Yes! So true, at least IME (with males). I remember once at the beginning of the relationship when we were supposed to meet and he wasn't there, my Inferior Fi believed it was being stood up. Turns out on his walk over he got into a fight and spent the night in jail. Rather than being put off or judgemental about that, I was so relieved LOL. I think that's where inter-quadra understanding becomes apparent--the important thing to both of us was that we wanted, but couldn't, be together for reasons beyond our control.

He said that after awhile with me, such crazy drama ceased to happen in his life. I would talk Ni to him in the course of describing my own daily stuff, which he eventually started to absorb by osmosis. At that time I didn't know about Socionics, so I am applying the theory after the fact. Similarly, I would experience an appreciation for things in his day-by-day and in-the-moment fashion. He would send me texts "notice the beautiful sun today baby...it shines for us" (with tons of smilies and kisses).

With respect to your LIE friend saying you are too weak and timid, my guess is that they are trying to protect you from spreading yourself too thin. My EII friend does so much for so many people. However, I would imagine with Leading Fi, you know exactly who you want to do things for and why. I am not such a good judge of people, and whenever I open up, people tend to start asking so much of me when I've got 5x as much stuff on my plate, which leads to resentment and then I withdraw or try to keep people at a distance. My EII bud definitely notices this and steps in the middle for me. Last time he visited he cleaned out my car and carved me some shot glasses and fixed a bunch of things around the house...finally I had to step in "stop working you are here for a vacation!!". We both go overboard trying to protect one another from the big bad world

[Becca]

Yes! So true, at least IME (with males). I remember once at the beginning of the relationship when we were supposed to meet and he wasn't there, my Inferior Fi believed it was being stood up. Turns out on his walk over he got into a fight and spent the night in jail. Rather than being put off or judgemental about that, I was so relieved LOL. I think that's where inter-quadra understanding becomes apparent--the important thing to both of us was that we wanted, but couldn't, be together for reasons beyond our control.

He said that after awhile with me, such crazy drama ceased to happen in his life. I would talk Ni to him in the course of describing my own daily stuff, which he eventually started to absorb by osmosis. At that time I didn't know about Socionics, so I am applying the theory after the fact. Similarly, I would experience an appreciation for things in his day-by-day and in-the-moment fashion. He would send me texts "notice the beautiful sun today baby...it shines for us" (with tons of smilies and kisses).

With respect to your LIE friend saying you are too weak and timid, my guess is that they are trying to protect you from spreading yourself too thin. My EII friend does so much for so many people. However, I would imagine with Leading Fi, you know exactly who you want to do things for and why. I am not such a good judge of people, and whenever I open up, people tend to start asking so much of me when I've got 5x as much stuff on my plate, which leads to resentment and then I withdraw or try to keep people at a distance. My EII bud definitely notices this and steps in the middle for me. Last time he visited he cleaned out my car and carved me some shot glasses and fixed a bunch of things around the house...finally I had to step in "stop working you are here for a vacation!!". We both go overboard trying to protect one another from the big bad world

Interesting. I notice that my LIE friend tends to be too nice to people, while I am more careful with whom I give my time to. I believe this is because of the extraverted and introverted differences. I think I help them be more grounded with who they should trust. We always stuck together, and enjoyed each others company even before I found out about socionics. Then it all made sense lol.
I always wondered what they saw in me, and why they thought I was so "nice" when I always found myself to be an average person in terms of generosity. Guess their leading Te needed the Fi, and vice versa. Opposites in friendship is awesome